Mushrik

bkanwar2

Thanks all,

Let me state these concepts in logical terms.

The basic concepts are

Statement 1 Allah = is one and only = A

Statement 2 All other gods = B, C, D, E, F ........

Statement 3 If one considers B, C, D, E, F ....... = A (Allah) = Shirk

According to prevalent traditional concepts of Muslims and Islam, the statement 3, is a Shirk and one stating or practicing it is considered a Mushrik. I need lots of yas or nays

Regards,

huruf

?What is a dream with respect to the person that dreams it? Is it part of the person? Is it something apart from the person?

Salaam

good_logic

Peace bkanwar2.

There is only one A.

There are no B,C,D,E,F...

Statements 2 and 3 are illusionary. Some just think they are other gods! That is why it is shirk.

GOD bless you.

Peace.

bkanwar2

Peace bkanwar2.

Statements 2 and 3 are illusionary. Some just think they are other gods! That is why it is shirk.

GOD bless you.

Peace.

Good logic, what is the logical proof that A exists? If others are illusinary so could be said of A.

Regards,

good_logic

Peace bkanwar2.

If you think there all illusionary;

Then there is no statement 1,2 or3

Back to square one?

GOD bless you.
Peace.

bkanwar2

Absolutely, but we are talking about concepts in a book called Quran.

The concept of GOD, which is a title given to an entity that is "worthy of human worship" is denied by meaning of very word Allah, which means "one who is not at all a deity for worship". Therefore, anyone putting Allah along with all other illusiionary things (GODS) would be a psychotic in modren terms. A Mushrik according to Quranic terms.

Regards,

mmkhan

Peace,

Please take a look at this, this is how shirk is to me. And I agree with good logic on this topic so far.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

bkanwar2

Let me add something more, so statement 3 is shirk and it's doer is a Mushrik.

The basic concepts are

Statement 1 Allah = is one and only = A

Statement 2 All other gods = B, C, D, E, F ........

Statement 3 If one considers B, C, D, E, F ....... = A (Allah) = Shirk

Now let me add, Statement 4 If one considers A = B,C,D,E,F .......,

is statement 4, any different than statement 3? No it is not.

But wait a minute isn't this exactly what Muslims have done with Allah? Who is one and only even according to their own admission. Haven't they put him in line as one of another god with numerous other gods in history?. So what they have done with Allah, is this not Shirk? Who then are Mushriks?

Please think. Also remember god is title given to an entity that deserved to be worshiped.

Regards,

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Mushrik is when you have faith in anything other than the realm that you live in which is God. You make yourself entities that have illusive power only; they cannot affect anything except in symbiosis with the Creator.

And an object of shirk does not necessarily have to be a perceived god entity but can be a prophet or anything else that is created themselves. This is shirk; that you believe in multiple layers of Oneness while there is only ONE ONE, because if you give power to, for example, a prophet then you have made yourself another entity like the Singularity that is God which we live within the "palm of its hand", but there is only one platform in which we live and not multiple and God is the foundation and not the other way around with a prophet which is from God. The prophet is part of that "singularity" and if he speaks he does it through God because he knows this. If it was not for God he would not breathe nor even exist. That is equal for any other human that roam the Earth.

When you create another "god" (A-L-EH) then you suddenly have two conflicting sources which splits your mind and you cannot serve two masters simultaneously, because your "uplink" to God is constantly active. God sustains your soul and body and it would be quite chaotic if abruptly another god shared that attention.

If it was possible with multiple gods then your reality may have looked quite blurred I think.

And remember AL-LAH is a title for a position of power, much like a function in the universe rather than a name.

Be whole

Linadean

To me to believe in anything else (like hadith) except the Quran is another form of shrik.
Although 1% of it could be true but i rather follow the word of god rather than Man.

Man_of_Faith

Harmony upon you Linadean,

It is also shirk in ways because you have taken a "god" (source of sustainment) which has conflicting teachings with God. 'IS' is an example of a group that does shirk because they have an illusionary god's teachings. They have diverted from the faith/promise (aldeen), so what they follow is shirk invented by some fools in the past. These people associated some unrighteous teachings with God and caused entire generations to err.

What puzzles me is how people do not see through the unrighteousness and become beguiled by the stupidity. God looks more like Hitler than a god (e-lah).

Be whole

ade_cool

Salam all,

Lately I have been pondering about the word "mushrik" which we usually translate it as polytheists. What about taking the word as common name which essentially means those who are making "equals" and then the context will determine what kind of "equals" is being discussed?

For example, 243 mentions that zani and zaniyah are not married except with each other or with "mushrik". Translating "mushrik" as polytheists in 243 does not feel smooth. Trinitarian christians are polytheists but it can be that they are actually good people (loyal to their spouses, honest, kind to their parents, abide by laws, give charity, etc). And such good people will not marry zani or zaniyah. From the context of 243, "mushrik" is related to sex so instead of polytheists they are those who cheat, i.e. they have spouse but they are making zani and zaniyah as "equals".

What do you guys think?

Wassalam,
Ade

Layth

Salam.

It would seem repetitive to take such meaning (zani or zani). Also, why are you looking at this as a cosmic law - why can’t it be a civil law (adulterers are encouraged to marry others like them or polytheists - and are forbidden for the believers).

I say this because Noah was married to an adulteress and Lot was married to a polytheist (they didn’t know).

ade_cool

Salam Layth,

Salam.

It would seem repetitive to take such meaning (zani or zani).

I am not sure if I understand what you are trying to say. Please kindly elaborate.

Also, why are you looking at this as a cosmic law - why can’t it be a civil law (adulterers are encouraged to marry others like them or polytheists - and are forbidden for the believers).

I say this because Noah was married to an adulteress and Lot was married to a polytheist (they didn’t know).

I don't think I am looking at this as a cosmic law in that good people will always end up marrying good people and so do bad people. This is because from Quran, I can see examples good people can end up marrying bad people like you already mentioned Noah and Lot, and also Firaun's wife if I may add. Sorry if my previous post gave that impression.

Agree on it being civil law, i.e. zani and zaniyah are to be married to each other or to "mushrik" and not to be married to believers. What I am trying to discuss and get some inputs is understanding "mushrik" in this case. Understanding it as polytheists, while still acceptable, it doesn't feel smooth in my view.

Wassalam,
Ade