My PERSONAL conclusions about salaat (contact prayer)

[Man_of_Faith]

Thank you very much to both of you @good logic and @Man of Faith for your replies and support.

I liked this very much
I still have a big problem with 5 times salat... it is so difficult to do it, specially when I work in the afternoon... and then, when I manage to perform it regularly sometimes, I feel great... but I also always have doubts whether Dr Rashad Khalifa would modify it had he lived longer because he might have had more insights... also culturally I am from a highly Western background and I tend to question the universality of Qur'an... as @Jafar somewhere wrote that the Qur'an is utterly irrelevant with its stories of admonitions to Jewish people and Bible references for Chinese and Japanese or Indian people, for example...

Actually, if we could make a hypothesis in an ideal, perfect situation, was it meant that all the believers and the ones destined to be saved, would ALL OF THEM perform the 5 times daily salat every day? In an ideal situation would we have singers, politicians and famous sportsmen stop their activities to perform the salat in the afternoon or at the sunset and wake up at dawn?

Is it incompatible for an important director of a huge bank or a CEO of some grand corporation who is at the same time totally devoted to God Alone and a perfect believer in his heart also, to perform the 5 daily salats?

Is it meant to be an either/or situation?

I confess I am utterly confused with this concept that God recommends us to put the 3 or 5 daily salat performance as a priority in our lives when it makes it so impractical, and, at the same time somewhere else in the Qur'an it states that religion wasn't meant to be a burden, or difficult for us... confused

God bless you all group
sun

I am not doubting that you should have a kind of communication with The Lord. You seek to establish a relationship with your Lord that the Almighty may see you good enough to let you into His domain. You seek to look good in the "eyes" of God and through the communication, or Communion as I put it, you get help with preventing immorality and you also gain Guidance. Inspiration and Guidance is a phenomenon slightly difficult to explain but it basically works like that you have a monolog with God and then your "wish", or what to say, will be inspired to you or your "timeline" will be affected. Do you stand on a mountain (example) and complain to God that you do not understand a word of "Quran" for an hour then you should not be surprised if you the next day suddenly have been taken to new heights and you poke your head and laugh that why you did not think about that before. It is an example of how God's inspiration works. And that is the way of how Salah works, and surely why you are supposed to know what you are saying doing this activity. You may simply say something unfitting while under influence of khamr and you look quite the fool in front of The Lord.

Communion, or salah, is placed during the beginning and end of the day for convenience and likely that you need the daylight hour to seek the bounty of your Lord for your "daily bread" and that you may struggle in the cause of God. But the communication can take place whenever you need to "talk" to God for some matter and that means any matter even if it is a very small issue.

But communication during daylight hours should also be carried out and it is regular salah but much like seeking God's Nearness and Guidance. "Improvised" salah may be performed, ie less focused, during such hours if you are in an inappropriate location and time that you simply call unto The Lord while driving or walking or whatever you are doing. This verse where such commands are deemed okay by God indirectly implies that a salah may be carried out in the day.

Moses walked into the shadows and communicated with his Lord and that was a salah and I doubt it was night during that moment as there was much more after that, ie that Moses was invited to his future stepfather.

And Moses seems to have carried out an improvised communication while traveling slightly before that in the narration, suggestion calling into The Lord may be depending on situation.

And sorry I did not have the verse numbers but browse for "two women" and you will find the narration. It was taking place at a watering place some time in the past.

I highly suggest that salah is not a brain-dead ritual but is quite functional at gaining Guidance as well as close proximity to The Lord. All these callings unto The Lord and talk what can they be if salah suggests connection, contact or communication?

God bless you

[wrkmmn]

peace man of faith

Although you didn't write your conclusion to your post, I assume you want to say that Salat is to be performed ALL THE TIME, is that so? Then what about the wudu (ablution), which is also mentioned in the Qur'an? )

Assuming/guessing could be a sin. Get your own conclusions, I don't give conclusions, for it is not on me to make the blind see.

but if this helps you in someway
let say that you want to begin praying now, and hold your excrement and your urine from coming out, and not stop until you fall death. then you will only have to do one ablution during the rest of your life.

And also, would you be so kind as to tell me which translation do you use?

I listen to everything that is being said, and put my trust in the Most Merciful that he will make me follow the best of it.

May God protect me from submitting to anybody or anything else except Him, I do not submit to Dr Rashad Khalifa PhD, I consider him as a teacher and thru his explanations and translations I approached the Qur'an.

If prophet's Mohamed duty was only to deliver message is because god is the one who clarifies/explains it individually, and not through rasha kalifa, beacause if rashad kalifa is the clarifyer then those who live before him were lost.

mattew 2310And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.

the Christ=Jesus son of Mary= word of God

now you know who should be your only teacher.

may God increase our knowledge and give us some wisdom.

[good_logic]

Peace Godsubmitter.

Keep your trust and loyalty to GOD Alone.

7320
Your Lord knows that you meditate during two-thirds of the night, or half of it, or one-third of it, and so do some of those who believed with you. God has designed the night and the day, and He knows that you cannot always do this. He has pardoned you. Instead, you shall read what you can of the Quran. He knows that some of you may be ill, others may be traveling in pursuit of God's provisions, and others may be striving in the cause of God. You shall read what you can of it, and observe the Salat, give the Zakat, and lend God a loan of righteousness. Whatever good you send ahead on behalf of your souls, you will find it at God far better and generously rewarded. And implore God for forgiveness. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

The Lord knows each one of us inside out. Do what you can.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[GODsubmitter]

Thank you for your kind answers gentlemen @Good logic, @Man of Faith and @wrkmmm

group

[Babansif]

When it comes to the Salat, as you mentioned, some of them say that it means a commitment/submission to God, and others say that to do Salat is simply to word righteous deeds.
Those who advocate such claims may sound convincing to innocent readers who may not be familiar with the Quran, but it can easily be shown that all such claims are in total violation of clear Quranic words.

FIRST

Let us read the following Quranic verse, it will give us proof that Salat is a physical ritual and not just a commitment (to God).
"And if you are among them and you lead the Salat for them, let a group of them stand with you and let them hold on to their weapons. Then once they have prostrated let them be positioned behind you and let another group, who have not yet observed the Salat, observe the Salat with you while remaining cautious and while holding on to their weapons. Those who have disbelieved would dearly like you to be heedless of your weapons and goods in order to come down on you with one blow.You commit no error, if you are impeded by rain or you are ill, in putting down your weapons, so long as you remain cautious. God has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment." 4102

The above Quranic words confirm a number of matters

1- The word Salat in 4102 cannot simply mean a commitment or working righteous deeds since the words in this verse speak of the Prophet (or leader) leading the Salat. How can the Prophet, or anyone leading the Salat, be leading a commitment to God? Or do we need someone to lead us in order to work righteous deeds?

2- The command in 4102 is for various groups of believers to stand with their arms while observing the Salat. Do we need to be armed to be committed to God to do work righteous deeds? Obviously not, but because the believers are observing a physical ritual which makes them vulnerable to attack from the enemy they would indeed need to hold on to their weapons.

3- The words in 4102 also say that while each group is observing the Salat with the Prophet (or leader of the Salat) that another group should stand behind them in order to provide protection. So if we substitute the word Salat here with commitment to God, or righteous deeds, then not only would the believers need to hold their arms while being committed to God, or working righteous deeds, but they would also need another group to guard them while they are doing so!

4- But that is not all, the words "Then once they have prostrated let them be positioned behind you and let another group, who have not yet observed the Salat, observe the Salat with you" would raise further questions. If we use the interpretation of Salat to mean commitment or righteous deeds, this would mean that the second group, who have not yet observed their Salat, have infact not committed to God yet and are waiting their turn to do so! Or they have not done righteous deeds and waiting their turn!

5- Does the act of being committed to God, or working righteous deeds need to be done in groups? Or does it need a leader? Obviously not, this again confirms that the Salat is a physical ritual which can be observed in congregation and under a leader who leads the Salat.

6- The words in 4102 go on to say that the disbelievers would dearly love to ambush the believers when they are not standing armed during their Salat. Once again this would make absolutely no sense whatsoever to say that disbelievers would love to ambush the believers while they are trying to be commited to God. Or do the disbelievers wait to catch believers in an act of doing a righteous deed to ambush them?

The above Quranic words make it very clear that the Salat is a very specific physical ritual and not merely a state of commitment to God nor working righteous deeds. But because it is a physical ritual, which involves bending and prostrating, it makes the believers vulnerable to attack from the enemy at times of war, thus they need to hold on to their weapons and also need a second group to guard them while they are praying.

SECOND

The Quran authorises three Salat and they are given three specific names, they are Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn prayer), Salat Al-Wusta (Middle prayer) and Salat Al-Isha (Night prayer). If Salat meant submission or commitment to God or working righteous deeds, why would we have three different names for commitment to God? And why would the names of these Salat be related to specific times of the day?

THIRD

"Salat is decreed for the believers at specific times? 4103

Besides the fact that the Quran decrees three Salat by name, we also read in 4103 that God decreed the Salat for the believers for specific times of the day.
Now to claim that Salat means to be committed to God or to work righteous deeds, then once again this would mean that God allows us to be in submission to Him, or to be righteous, only at specific times of the day! Does this make any sense? Surely commitment to God and righteousness are independent of the time of the day!
FOURTH

"If you travel the land you commit no error by shortening your Salat if you fear that the disbelievers will try you. Surely, the disbelievers are your clear enemy." 4101

Once again if we assume that the Salat means submission to God or working righteous deeds, then this would mean that at times of fear from the enemy we should shorten our submission to God and our righteous deeds! Does this make any sense?

FIFTH

The words in 56 instruct us to wash our faces and arms and wipe our heads and feet before observing the Salat. If we follow the interpretations they give for Salat we would have to say that we are not allowed to submit to God nor work righteous deeds unless we wash first! It would also mean that if we wish to be in continuous submission to God that we should wash non stop all day long! In reality, because Salat is a physical ritual which is designed for us to glorify God, then it makes sense to observe a form of physical purification before worshipping our Maker.
SIXTH

"O you who believe, when the call for the Salat has been announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of God, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew." 629

Here we read about a call made for Salat on Friday, the following questions arise

• Does commitment, submission or working righteou deeds need a ?call? or announcement?
• Once again, should we submit to God as a group and always on Friday?
• The words in 629 state that the believers are to hasten to commemorate God when they hear the call, but the fact that they are believers would indicate that they are already submitters to God, so why would they need the call?

SEVENTH

"Do not utter your Salat too loudly, nor whisper it; but seek a path in between." 17110

Once again if Salat means submission to God, or working righteous deeds, then the question of using a loud voice or whispering would not be relevant. However the words advising the use of a moderate voice indicates that God is speaking about a ritual that is spoken and this confirms once again that the Salat is a physical ritual.

To conclude, all the above evidence confirm without any doubt that the Salat is a physical ritual with specific physical acts and not a mere state of submission to God or working righteous deeds.

[Wakas]

peace Babansif,

Thank you for your post. It contains some good points. However, I recommend pondering over the following reply to some of your points. Note, it does not say you are wrong, nor does it say you are right. Just points to consider

Re FIRST
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
e.g. salat either means X or Y - what if there are other options?

I recommend this article for an analysis of 4102.

Re SECOND
The Quran does not use the name "Salat Al-Wusta", the Arabic is actually a description "al salat al wusta".

Re SEVENTH
The translation of 17110 actually has other options, e.g. ...do not be too loud/public in/with your salat and nor quiet/private with/in it...

[good_logic]

Peace.

There are no named "salat" both are periods of time. "Salat" happens to be decreed at those times as well. The verse mentioning them is not dealing with "salat",but another issue.

"Ishaa" and "Fajr" are periods of time within the 24 hour day.

If GOD wanted to name "salat" He would have made salat the subject of the verse and named them all.

GOD has decreed salat at specific times and those times are periods of the 24 hour day.The verses that deal with salat as a subject clarify these times ., not verses that deal with other subjects.

GOD bless
Peace.

[hawk99]

Actually, if we could make a hypothesis in an ideal, perfect situation, was it meant that all the believers and the ones destined to be saved, would ALL OF THEM perform the 5 times daily salat every day? In an ideal situation would we have singers, politicians and famous sportsmen stop their activities to perform the salat in the afternoon or at the sunset and wake up at dawn?

Is it incompatible for an important director of a huge bank or a CEO of some grand corporation who is at the same time totally devoted to God Alone and a perfect believer in his heart also, to perform the 5 daily salats?

Is it meant to be an either/or situation?

Peace,

We have reached the crux of the matter regarding salat, and that is the poison insidiously placed in the path of
worship of our creator. While salat is indeed fard The idea of 5 obligatory (fard) is the poison
that has created in the minds of many Muslim adherents that our glorious ritual worship must be performed
5 times a day no matter what, this point of view creates strategies of avoidance, frustration, exasperation,
confusion and scholarly endeavors by many Muslims to counter and expose the impracticality of the 5 ritual salat.

The 5 daily salat are not obligatory (fard) but opportunities for worship and basically cover a 24 hour period given
to us for purification and rememberance. Salat is not impractical nor is the fast, the Hajj, or Zakat, but a benefit for
the people. Worship is personal and fits the needs of the people, therefore we are to worship when it is convenient.
and not to impress or to be seen as righteous.

Please understand our Sustainer's overview

The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs
of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or
on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you
hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided
you; and perhaps you will be grateful. 2/185

Let us examine the subconscious effects that the word Fard has had on Islam (marriage, headscarf, etc.,)

God bless

peace

[Zulf]

Let us examine the subconscious effects that the word Fard has had on Islam (marriage, headscarf, etc.,)

If something is really 'fard' as per the quran, then it means that it is essential and necessary for us. It means that something 'fard' would be important to our spiritual selves like air or water is important for our bodies.

Traditionally though, 'fard' is all about guilt and pressure. "Do this fard thing, or God will be angry with you. You'll be judged and scrutinized so you better follow the script of what we, the religiously authoritarian men, say.". Traditionally, something 'fard' is 'fard' by convention, and not by nature.

Peace

[good_logic]

Peace.

If we do something to please/follow/...others ,yet we do not understand why/do not get anything from it/do not enjoy doing it/do not want to do it...etc.
In that case,we are not being honest with ourselves, deep down we are either frightened of others/under pressure from others /or plain hypocrites...

To truly follow GOD is to be honest with ourselves, try to understand why and what we should do or do not do, enjoy what we do,persevere and change for the better. Nothing and no one should impose on us what we disagree with or dislike .

GOD is not forcing us, and He is capable of doing so. Why should we be forced by others?

Deep down ,if everybody realised that no creation of GOD has power over them, they will come to their senses and take responsibility
for their own life .

Each one has his life,his time his works . We will meet our Creator as individuals, no one will intercede on our behalf!

Advising/ giving our opinions is all we can do.
Freedom of choice was given to everyone?

GOD bless.
Peace

[GODsubmitter]

When it comes to the Salat, as you mentioned, some of them say that it means a commitment/submission to God, and others say that to do Salat is simply to word righteous deeds.
Those who advocate such claims may sound convincing to innocent readers who may not be familiar with the Quran, but it can easily be shown that all such claims are in total violation of clear Quranic words.

FIRST

Let us read the following Quranic verse, it will give us proof that Salat is a physical ritual and not just a commitment (to God).
"And if you are among them and you lead the Salat for them, let a group of them stand with you and let them hold on to their weapons. Then once they have prostrated let them be positioned behind you and let another group, who have not yet observed the Salat, observe the Salat with you while remaining cautious and while holding on to their weapons. Those who have disbelieved would dearly like you to be heedless of your weapons and goods in order to come down on you with one blow.You commit no error, if you are impeded by rain or you are ill, in putting down your weapons, so long as you remain cautious. God has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment." 4102

The above Quranic words confirm a number of matters

1- The word Salat in 4102 cannot simply mean a commitment or working righteous deeds since the words in this verse speak of the Prophet (or leader) leading the Salat. How can the Prophet, or anyone leading the Salat, be leading a commitment to God? Or do we need someone to lead us in order to work righteous deeds?

2- The command in 4102 is for various groups of believers to stand with their arms while observing the Salat. Do we need to be armed to be committed to God to do work righteous deeds? Obviously not, but because the believers are observing a physical ritual which makes them vulnerable to attack from the enemy they would indeed need to hold on to their weapons.

3- The words in 4102 also say that while each group is observing the Salat with the Prophet (or leader of the Salat) that another group should stand behind them in order to provide protection. So if we substitute the word Salat here with commitment to God, or righteous deeds, then not only would the believers need to hold their arms while being committed to God, or working righteous deeds, but they would also need another group to guard them while they are doing so!

4- But that is not all, the words "Then once they have prostrated let them be positioned behind you and let another group, who have not yet observed the Salat, observe the Salat with you" would raise further questions. If we use the interpretation of Salat to mean commitment or righteous deeds, this would mean that the second group, who have not yet observed their Salat, have infact not committed to God yet and are waiting their turn to do so! Or they have not done righteous deeds and waiting their turn!

5- Does the act of being committed to God, or working righteous deeds need to be done in groups? Or does it need a leader? Obviously not, this again confirms that the Salat is a physical ritual which can be observed in congregation and under a leader who leads the Salat.

6- The words in 4102 go on to say that the disbelievers would dearly love to ambush the believers when they are not standing armed during their Salat. Once again this would make absolutely no sense whatsoever to say that disbelievers would love to ambush the believers while they are trying to be commited to God. Or do the disbelievers wait to catch believers in an act of doing a righteous deed to ambush them?

The above Quranic words make it very clear that the Salat is a very specific physical ritual and not merely a state of commitment to God nor working righteous deeds. But because it is a physical ritual, which involves bending and prostrating, it makes the believers vulnerable to attack from the enemy at times of war, thus they need to hold on to their weapons and also need a second group to guard them while they are praying.

SECOND

The Quran authorises three Salat and they are given three specific names, they are Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn prayer), Salat Al-Wusta (Middle prayer) and Salat Al-Isha (Night prayer). If Salat meant submission or commitment to God or working righteous deeds, why would we have three different names for commitment to God? And why would the names of these Salat be related to specific times of the day?

THIRD

"Salat is decreed for the believers at specific times? 4103

Besides the fact that the Quran decrees three Salat by name, we also read in 4103 that God decreed the Salat for the believers for specific times of the day.
Now to claim that Salat means to be committed to God or to work righteous deeds, then once again this would mean that God allows us to be in submission to Him, or to be righteous, only at specific times of the day! Does this make any sense? Surely commitment to God and righteousness are independent of the time of the day!
FOURTH

"If you travel the land you commit no error by shortening your Salat if you fear that the disbelievers will try you. Surely, the disbelievers are your clear enemy." 4101

Once again if we assume that the Salat means submission to God or working righteous deeds, then this would mean that at times of fear from the enemy we should shorten our submission to God and our righteous deeds! Does this make any sense?

FIFTH

The words in 56 instruct us to wash our faces and arms and wipe our heads and feet before observing the Salat. If we follow the interpretations they give for Salat we would have to say that we are not allowed to submit to God nor work righteous deeds unless we wash first! It would also mean that if we wish to be in continuous submission to God that we should wash non stop all day long! In reality, because Salat is a physical ritual which is designed for us to glorify God, then it makes sense to observe a form of physical purification before worshipping our Maker.
SIXTH

"O you who believe, when the call for the Salat has been announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of God, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew." 629

Here we read about a call made for Salat on Friday, the following questions arise

• Does commitment, submission or working righteou deeds need a ?call? or announcement?
• Once again, should we submit to God as a group and always on Friday?
• The words in 629 state that the believers are to hasten to commemorate God when they hear the call, but the fact that they are believers would indicate that they are already submitters to God, so why would they need the call?

SEVENTH

"Do not utter your Salat too loudly, nor whisper it; but seek a path in between." 17110

Once again if Salat means submission to God, or working righteous deeds, then the question of using a loud voice or whispering would not be relevant. However the words advising the use of a moderate voice indicates that God is speaking about a ritual that is spoken and this confirms once again that the Salat is a physical ritual.

To conclude, all the above evidence confirm without any doubt that the Salat is a physical ritual with specific physical acts and not a mere state of submission to God or working righteous deeds.

Thank you very much for your post and a nice contribution.

Peace

sun

[GODsubmitter]

Peace,

We have reached the crux of the matter regarding salat, and that is the poison insidiously placed in the path of
worship of our creator. While salat is indeed fard The idea of 5 obligatory (fard) is the poison
that has created in the minds of many Muslim adherents that our glorious ritual worship must be performed
5 times a day no matter what, this point of view creates strategies of avoidance, frustration, exasperation,
confusion and scholarly endeavors by many Muslims to counter and expose the impracticality of the 5 ritual salat.

The 5 daily salat are not obligatory (fard) but opportunities for worship and basically cover a 24 hour period given
to us for purification and rememberance. Salat is not impractical nor is the fast, the Hajj, or Zakat, but a benefit for
the people. Worship is personal and fits the needs of the people, therefore we are to worship when it is convenient.
and not to impress or to be seen as righteous.

Please understand our Sustainer's overview

The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs
of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or
on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you
hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided
you; and perhaps you will be grateful. 2/185

Let us examine the subconscious effects that the word Fard has had on Islam (marriage, headscarf, etc.,)

God bless

peace

I really liked this post very much @hawk99!

Thank you for posting it!

Peace

group

[hawk99]

Peace,

I've noticed that many sincere believers have personal issues with the deen. While many of us have come to terms
with the hadith, there are still some deprogramming that we may be unaware of that still needs to be done. One of
which is the notion of obligation (fard) which if from God is binding, and if not from God must be understood as an
invention by the scholars.

Examples

Regarding the Fast God is merciful

Specific days (are designated for fasting); if one is ill or traveling, an equal number of other days may
be substituted. Those who can fast, but with great difficulty, may substitute feeding one poor person for each
day of breaking the fast. If one volunteers (more righteous works), it is better. But fasting is the best for you,
if you only knew.

Regarding Zakat God is merciful and does not require us to give beyond our means

2219] They ask you about intoxicants and gambling say, "In them there is a gross sin, and some benefits for
the people. But their sinfulness far outweighs their benefit." They also ask you what to give to charity say,
"The excess." GOD thus clarifies the revelations for you, that you may reflect,

Regarding Hajj God knows what is hardship and reinforces his mercy

In it are clear signs the standing place of Abraham. And whoever enters it shall be safe. And to
Allah from the people is a pilgrimage to the House - for whoever is able to find thereto a way. But whoever
disbelieves - then indeed, Allah is free from need of the worlds.

This includes being able both physically and financially.

What is meant by being physically able is that one is sound in body and can bear the hardship of travelling to
the sacred House of Allaah. Being financially able means that one has enough funds to get to the sacred
House of Allaah and back again.

Regarding the Salat There is nothing in the Quran regarding punishment for missing salat, however there
are consequences for abandoning the Salat.

After them, He substituted generations who lost the Contact Prayers (Salat), and pursued their lusts.
They will suffer the consequences.

Regarding Hajj Copied from islamqa.info

Allah knows best

God bless

peace

[hawk99]

If something is really 'fard' as per the quran, then it means that it is essential and necessary for us. It means that something 'fard' would be important to our spiritual selves like air or water is important for our bodies.

Traditionally though, 'fard' is all about guilt and pressure. "Do this fard thing, or God will be angry with you. You'll be judged and scrutinized so you better follow the script of what we, the religiously authoritarian men, say.". Traditionally, something 'fard' is 'fard' by convention, and not by nature.

Peace

Peace Zulf,

Thanks for introducing the words "guilt and pressure" into the conversation because these two words describe
perfectly the effects the misuse of what is fard.

Peace.

If we do something to please/follow/...others ,yet we do not understand why/do not get anything from it/do not enjoy doing it/do not want to do it...etc.
In that case, we are not being honest with ourselves, deep down we are either frightened of others/under pressure from others /or plain hypocrites...

Peace good logic,

Good point, what you say reminds me of shirk!

Peace.

To truly follow GOD is to be honest with ourselves, try to understand why and what we should do or do not do, enjoy what we do,persevere and change for the better. Nothing and no one should impose on us what we disagree with or dislike .

The crux of the matter explained well.

God bless

peace

[unknownuser]

When it comes to the Salat, as you mentioned, some of them say that it means a commitment/submission to God, and others say that to do Salat is simply to word righteous deeds.
Those who advocate such claims may sound convincing to innocent readers who may not be familiar with the Quran, but it can easily be shown that all such claims are in total violation of clear Quranic words.

FIRST

Let us read the following Quranic verse, it will give us proof that Salat is a physical ritual and not just a commitment (to God).
"And if you are among them and you lead the Salat for them, let a group of them stand with you and let them hold on to their weapons. Then once they have prostrated let them be positioned behind you and let another group, who have not yet observed the Salat, observe the Salat with you while remaining cautious and while holding on to their weapons. Those who have disbelieved would dearly like you to be heedless of your weapons and goods in order to come down on you with one blow.You commit no error, if you are impeded by rain or you are ill, in putting down your weapons, so long as you remain cautious. God has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment." 4102

The above Quranic words confirm a number of matters

1- The word Salat in 4102 cannot simply mean a commitment or working righteous deeds since the words in this verse speak of the Prophet (or leader) leading the Salat. How can the Prophet, or anyone leading the Salat, be leading a commitment to God? Or do we need someone to lead us in order to work righteous deeds?

2- The command in 4102 is for various groups of believers to stand with their arms while observing the Salat. Do we need to be armed to be committed to God to do work righteous deeds? Obviously not, but because the believers are observing a physical ritual which makes them vulnerable to attack from the enemy they would indeed need to hold on to their weapons.

3- The words in 4102 also say that while each group is observing the Salat with the Prophet (or leader of the Salat) that another group should stand behind them in order to provide protection. So if we substitute the word Salat here with commitment to God, or righteous deeds, then not only would the believers need to hold their arms while being committed to God, or working righteous deeds, but they would also need another group to guard them while they are doing so!

4- But that is not all, the words "Then once they have prostrated let them be positioned behind you and let another group, who have not yet observed the Salat, observe the Salat with you" would raise further questions. If we use the interpretation of Salat to mean commitment or righteous deeds, this would mean that the second group, who have not yet observed their Salat, have infact not committed to God yet and are waiting their turn to do so! Or they have not done righteous deeds and waiting their turn!

5- Does the act of being committed to God, or working righteous deeds need to be done in groups? Or does it need a leader? Obviously not, this again confirms that the Salat is a physical ritual which can be observed in congregation and under a leader who leads the Salat.

6- The words in 4102 go on to say that the disbelievers would dearly love to ambush the believers when they are not standing armed during their Salat. Once again this would make absolutely no sense whatsoever to say that disbelievers would love to ambush the believers while they are trying to be commited to God. Or do the disbelievers wait to catch believers in an act of doing a righteous deed to ambush them?

The above Quranic words make it very clear that the Salat is a very specific physical ritual and not merely a state of commitment to God nor working righteous deeds. But because it is a physical ritual, which involves bending and prostrating, it makes the believers vulnerable to attack from the enemy at times of war, thus they need to hold on to their weapons and also need a second group to guard them while they are praying.

SECOND

The Quran authorises three Salat and they are given three specific names, they are Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn prayer), Salat Al-Wusta (Middle prayer) and Salat Al-Isha (Night prayer). If Salat meant submission or commitment to God or working righteous deeds, why would we have three different names for commitment to God? And why would the names of these Salat be related to specific times of the day?

THIRD

"Salat is decreed for the believers at specific times? 4103

Besides the fact that the Quran decrees three Salat by name, we also read in 4103 that God decreed the Salat for the believers for specific times of the day.
Now to claim that Salat means to be committed to God or to work righteous deeds, then once again this would mean that God allows us to be in submission to Him, or to be righteous, only at specific times of the day! Does this make any sense? Surely commitment to God and righteousness are independent of the time of the day!
FOURTH

"If you travel the land you commit no error by shortening your Salat if you fear that the disbelievers will try you. Surely, the disbelievers are your clear enemy." 4101

Once again if we assume that the Salat means submission to God or working righteous deeds, then this would mean that at times of fear from the enemy we should shorten our submission to God and our righteous deeds! Does this make any sense?

FIFTH

The words in 56 instruct us to wash our faces and arms and wipe our heads and feet before observing the Salat. If we follow the interpretations they give for Salat we would have to say that we are not allowed to submit to God nor work righteous deeds unless we wash first! It would also mean that if we wish to be in continuous submission to God that we should wash non stop all day long! In reality, because Salat is a physical ritual which is designed for us to glorify God, then it makes sense to observe a form of physical purification before worshipping our Maker.
SIXTH

"O you who believe, when the call for the Salat has been announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of God, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew." 629

Here we read about a call made for Salat on Friday, the following questions arise

• Does commitment, submission or working righteou deeds need a ?call? or announcement?
• Once again, should we submit to God as a group and always on Friday?
• The words in 629 state that the believers are to hasten to commemorate God when they hear the call, but the fact that they are believers would indicate that they are already submitters to God, so why would they need the call?

SEVENTH

"Do not utter your Salat too loudly, nor whisper it; but seek a path in between." 17110

Once again if Salat means submission to God, or working righteous deeds, then the question of using a loud voice or whispering would not be relevant. However the words advising the use of a moderate voice indicates that God is speaking about a ritual that is spoken and this confirms once again that the Salat is a physical ritual.

To conclude, all the above evidence confirm without any doubt that the Salat is a physical ritual with specific physical acts and not a mere state of submission to God or working righteous deeds.

Salaam!

Excellent and very very solid points Babansif. I am ashamed to admit that I had fallen into the "wishful" thinking and confusion - the possibility that Salat may have not referred to a physical ritual, even though the idea of being prescribed to wash our hands, faces, wipe our heads and feet upto the ankles before "Salat" kept screaming from my conscience....but yes, I think you are quite right. There isn't a shadow of a doubt from these points, that Salat in all of the above cases, refers to anything other than a physical, mental and verbal form of practice.

Whether Salat Al-Fajr, Salat Al-Wusta and Salat Al-Isha are names, it's hard to say. Fajr, Wusta and Isha maybe different for everyone. On places on earth where the sun is up for 6 months and down for another 6 months, any interpretation of times based on the sun is faulty. So fajr, wusta and isha may refer to times of a person's day i.e., when you wake up, this is fajr, middle of your day-upto you to work out I guess, and finally isha, before turning in. Of course communities may be free to set up fixed timings when praying in congregation. Back in the time the Quran was being revealed OR that geographical area, people may have understood it as related to the sun's positioning - just my thoughts.

So it can be both, either a name, or a description - the interpretation of which depends on the situation of an individual or community. Bearing in mind that Allah wants for us ease and not hardship and that we should look at all the information then follow the best interpretation.

[GODsubmitter]

Salaam!

Whether Salat Al-Fajr, Salat Al-Wusta and Salat Al-Isha are names, it's hard to say. Fajr, Wusta and Isha maybe different for everyone. On places on earth where the sun is up for 6 months and down for another 6 months, any interpretation of times based on the sun is faulty. So fajr, wusta and isha may refer to times of a person's day i.e., when you wake up, this is fajr, middle of your day-upto you to work out I guess, and finally isha, before turning in. Of course communities may be free to set up fixed timings when praying in congregation. Back in the time the Quran was being revealed OR that geographical area, people may have understood it as related to the sun's positioning - just my thoughts.

So it can be both, either a name, or a description - the interpretation of which depends on the situation of an individual or community. Bearing in mind that Allah wants for us ease and not hardship and that we should look at all the information then follow the best interpretation.

Thank you very much for this contribution, I like it very much!
It is a very good idea to understand those salat-names as part of "personal" day, as you coined it.
That helps me a lot to further understand the Salat.

[GODsubmitter]

Peace,

I've noticed that many sincere believers have personal issues with the deen. While many of us have come to terms
with the hadith, there are still some deprogramming that we may be unaware of that still needs to be done. One of
which is the notion of obligation (fard) which if from God is binding, and if not from God must be understood as an
invention by the scholars.

Examples

Regarding the Fast God is merciful

Specific days (are designated for fasting); if one is ill or traveling, an equal number of other days may
be substituted. Those who can fast, but with great difficulty, may substitute feeding one poor person for each
day of breaking the fast. If one volunteers (more righteous works), it is better. But fasting is the best for you,
if you only knew.

Regarding Zakat God is merciful and does not require us to give beyond our means

2219] They ask you about intoxicants and gambling say, "In them there is a gross sin, and some benefits for
the people. But their sinfulness far outweighs their benefit." They also ask you what to give to charity say,
"The excess." GOD thus clarifies the revelations for you, that you may reflect,

Regarding Hajj God knows what is hardship and reinforces his mercy

In it are clear signs the standing place of Abraham. And whoever enters it shall be safe. And to
Allah from the people is a pilgrimage to the House - for whoever is able to find thereto a way. But whoever
disbelieves - then indeed, Allah is free from need of the worlds.

This includes being able both physically and financially.

What is meant by being physically able is that one is sound in body and can bear the hardship of travelling to
the sacred House of Allaah. Being financially able means that one has enough funds to get to the sacred
House of Allaah and back again.

Regarding the Salat There is nothing in the Quran regarding punishment for missing salat, however there
are consequences for abandoning the Salat.

After them, He substituted generations who lost the Contact Prayers (Salat), and pursued their lusts.
They will suffer the consequences.

Regarding Hajj Copied from islamqa.info

Allah knows best

God bless

peace

Thank you again!
How good that you wrote the word deprogramming and started explaining it.
I think many, many people need it, more then we think )

PS
By the way, I often wonder who's interest was it to poison the religion(s), and why?
"Who" had that much energy to destroy the pristine human elevation to God and for what purpose?
In the end, who is in charge to promulgate the LIE on such a global scale?
Perhaps those questions will never be answered...

Peace

sun

[Wakas]

peace,

...any interpretation of times based on the sun is faulty...

Not necessarily. Can you provide a verse commanding believers (plural) to observe salat AND with a reference to the sun?

Note, al fajr and al isha are not necessarily sun terms.

[hawk99]

Thank you again!
How good that you wrote the word deprogramming and started explaining it.
I think many, many people need it, more then we think )

Peace GODsubmitter,

Like any bad, dysfunctional relationship one must be careful of the baggage carried into the future, and fully examine
every aspect of past involvements in order to purify (learn) what is needed to move forward to obtain the sought after
goal (peace and happiness in this life and paradise in the next).

PS
By the way, I often wonder who's interest was it to poison the religion(s), and why?
"Who" had that much energy to destroy the pristine human elevation to God and for what purpose?
In the end, who is in charge to promulgate the LIE on such a global scale?
Perhaps those questions will never be answered...

The simply answer would be Shaytayn and his allies. The details could be numerous.
Maybe someone should start a thread with your question in mind.

God bless

peace

[hafeez_kazi]

Peace all

Those who confidently say that Salat in the Quran means physical ritual Salat

But there came after them successors who abandoned the PRAYER and pursued desires; so they are going to meet evil (in hell) (19 59)

Except those who repent, BELIEVE and do righteousness; for those will enter Paradise and will not be wronged at all 1960

Let them explain how neglecting / abandoning of physical ritual salat converts a believer into a disbeliever?

Guard the prayers, and the middle prayer, and stand up to Allah truly devout and if you fear, then pray] then on foot or riding. But when you are secure, then remember Allah , as He has taught you that which you did not know 2238/9

It is not AQIM or AQAAM us SALAT but GUARD THE 5XSALAT and the middle salat? Let them explain how to GUARD the 5 physical ritual Salat and the middle Salat?

Let them also demonstrate how to physically pray on foot and riding.? Let them also explain what is the fear in the verse 2238 since Allah has not mentioned anything about fear as He has mentioned in verse 4101 and 43

(And they are) those who, if We establish them / give them power / authority in the land, establish the Prayer and give Zakat and enjoin good and forbid wrong. And to Allah belongs the outcome of matters. (22 41)

Let them explain why do you need POWER/AUTHORITY in the land to establish the prayer and giving of Zakat?

Do you not see that Allah is He Whom do glorify whosoever is in the heavens and the earth, and the birds with expanded wings? EACH one indeed knows ITS PRAYER and its glorification, and Allah is Cognizant of what they do. 2441

Let them explain how each one in the heavens and the earth pray like their physical ritual salat?

And when he came to it, he was called, "O Moses 2011
Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa 2012
And I have chosen you, so listen to what is whispered .2013
Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so serve Me and establish the prayer (RITUAL PRAYER) for my remembrance 2014

Let them explain How Moses understood the SALAT in his first communication with Allah? No Torah was revealed? Moses was nurtured by Pharaoh who was an atheist, then how did he understand the Salat which had Ruku and sujud and tahiyyat and salam?

And (ask) of the Sinners what led you into the Scorching Fire? They will say, "We were not of those who prayed? 7441/42/43

The mujrimeen were those people who were destroyed by Allah. The people of Noah, Aad, Thamud, Madyan, Lut, Abraham, Pharaoh? Will they be thrown in the scorching fire because they did not pray like you? How did the Mujrimeen know that they will in the scorching fire because they were not of those who prayed?

They said, "O Shu'ayb, does your prayer command you that we should leave what our fathers worship or not do with our wealth what we please? Indeed, you are the forbearing, the discerning!" (11 87)

Let them explain how does their physical ritual salat commands them?

you who have believed, testimony among you when death comes /befalls one of you at the time of bequest - two just men from among you OR two others from amongst those not of you if you are traveling through the land and the calamity of death should strike you. Detain them after the prayer and let them both swear by Allah if you doubt , "We will not exchange it for a price, even if he should be a near relative, and we will not withhold/hide the testimony of Allah. Indeed, we would then be of the sinful." (5 106)

Let them explain after which Salat the two witnesses should be detained Salat al Fajr or salat al Eisha? Salat al Wusta is to be GUARDED and not offered?

And when you travel throughout the land, there is no blame upon you if you SHORTEN FROM THE PRAYER , if you fear that those who disbelieve may persecute you. Indeed, the disbelievers are ever to you a clear enemy. (4 101)

Let them explain how to shorten FROM the prayer? It is not shortening the prayer but shortening FROM the prayer?

there is no blame upon you for shortening the prayer Why it is a sin/blame to SHORTEN FROM THE PRAYER when NOT traveling?

And when you are among them then set up / arrange FOR THEM the prayer Have you ever heard SOMEONE SETTING UP / ARRANGING A salat for others? It is not leading the Salat but SETTING UP / ARRANGING the salat

It is no sin for you to lay aside your arms, if rain impedes you or you are sick. But take your precaution Is this addressed to travelers? Or is it addressed to warriors?

And when you have completed the prayer, remember Allah standing, sitting, or on your sides. But when you become secure, establish prayer. Indeed, prayer has been enjoined upon the believers at prescribed / specified / appointed times. (4 103)

Which prayer was shortened and which prayer was to be offered after in peace? There was a fear of the enemy and that is why the believers prayed a shorter version of the prayers, but what happened to the fear of the enemy? Did it evaporate after seeing the believers physicalloy ritually praying?

Indeed the the physical ritual prayer was decreed upon the believers at appointed times. When WAS the physical ritual prayer decreed on the believers at appointed times? Is there any verse in the Quran which supports their claim?

O you who have believed, when you stand / rise for prayer, THEN wash your faces and your forearms to the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles. And if you are in a state of impurity / pollution, then clean / wash the impurity / pollution. But if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and do not find water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and hands with it. Allah does not intend to make difficulty for you, but He intends to purify you and complete His favor upon you that you may be grateful. (5 6)

Let them explain how to make wadhu AFTER standing for the prayer? were they sitting, kneeling, lying or sleeping before standing for prayer? Do you need to rise/stand for the prayer? Why is it that we should STAND for prayer? The word STAND suggests that prior to it we were either sitting or kneeling or lying or sleeping.

And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive (19 31)

Jesus was the only person who was enjoined prayers and Zakat as long as he lived but others are enjoined prayers and zakat even after they die? Is that the message of the verse? Even a child can understand that prayers and zakat cannot be offered and given respectively after death. A non Muslim when he reads such nonsense translation he will laugh and will make a mockery of the Quran?

The Muslims have lost their mental balance and could not comprehend that salat and zakat are not executable after death.

Indeed, the hypocrites deceive Allah, but He is deceiving them. And when they stand for prayer they stand lazily, showing the people and not remembering Allah except a little, (4 142)

Is there any mention of mosque? Were the hypocrites sitting in the mosque and then standing lazily for the prayers after the Iqaamat? The believers never noticed the laziness of the hypocrites except Allah? If the laziness was physical then it would have been noticed by the prophet as well as the believers? Why is Allah describing the laziness of the Hypocrites ONLY

And what prevents their expenditures from being accepted from them but that they have disbelieved in Allah and in His Messenger and that they come not to prayer except while they are lazy and that they do not spend except while they are unwilling. (9 54)

Before, (some years before this verse was revealed) Allah noticed their laziness while standing for the Salat and now after some years He has noticed that the hypocrites are coming to pray (from home to mosque) lazily. They come FROM home to the MOSQUE for the prayer lazily not noticed by anyone except by ALLAH. Then they sit in the mosque and after iqaamat they stand for prayer lazily not noticed by anyone except Allah? What is this nonsense? Does Allah observe physical actions right from the home to the masjid till standing in the SALAT and that too of the HYPOCRITES? Is Allah so interested in the physical actions before and during the prayers? There is something serious problem with the Muslims who believe in this nonsense.

Thanks