17:36 Paradox for non 'Arabs
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Peace "supportpeacenotwar".
The verse about a messenger preaching to people in their tongue is 144. Regarding the other verse I was referring to, perhaps the translation I was reading over the years did not depict the true meaning, but the verses are 26198-200.
Peace jtc,
144 refers to people and folk and checking the transliteration, not sure if it could be taken as nation but comparing many translations most refer to folk and people. To me this verse speaks of the Messenger and the people directly around him. I have to ask you a question, why do you think the Quran says the Reminder will be preserved? And wouldn't it only be generations like us who would appreciate this rather than the "generation" at the time of Prophet Muhammad? The sign of Pharoah would be another similar example. It would benefit the people who studied the Egyptians and Pharoahs, which at the time the Arabs weren't doing...
There seems to be something strange about how to approach the Qur'an for a non 'Arab. I am trying to put aside any prejudice and bias I have learned over the years. I was heavily involved with the "submitters" who have very limited views based on the interpretation of Rashad Khalifa. Once I came to my own conclusion that he was a false messenger and did not understand the very book he was "advocating", I started trying my best to study the Qur'an on a topic by topic or verse by verse basis using a literal translation, yaqb.org, corpus.quran.com, and lanes lexicon. These are the tools I have been using for a little over a year now. A lot of things are similar from translation to translation, but certain concepts, stories, laws, etc. are extremely different e.g. 434, 538, etc.
So in terms of Rashad Khalifa what did you find convincing, I know that you don't agree with him now but I mean the starting point of looking at the Quran. I don't follow Rashad Khalifa either. So I guess I am asking what drew you to the Quran? What were the proofs that convinced you in the first place? Maybe that's where you need to look?
When you talk of "corner stones" being clear, I have to respectfully disagree at this point in time. I was once convinced that although the Qur'an claims to be complete, it does not need the details of "salat" because we are told to "follow the religion of Abraham". My understanding changed in that I believed the "millat" of Abraham is not a set of specific rituals, but rather belief and service to the One God. Many people believe in "divine preservation of salat", but this does not make any sense to me as I do not see any mentioning of this in the Qur'an and it seems to go against the concept of following others and accepting hearsay attributed to God. This brings me to the question without talking to an imam, relying on tradition taught by your parents or elders or hadith, is it possible to understand what salat is from the Qur'an itself? I have not been able to answer this and have not seen an alternative understanding that is clear as of yet.
Well, that's fine. We are human beings after all. For myself, these cornerstones stand out when I read the Quran the ones I mentioned as well as others. The method itself may not be included for salat for example. But this is where we diverge as you said.
In terms of understanding what salat is from the Quran itself - I would say that God as ar-Rashid is the righteous teacher. There are verses in the Quran where Abraham and Ishmael ask God to show them how to devote/worship etc themselves to Him. (212 Considering that ar-Rashid is the Righteous Teacher, an attribute of God, I would say it makes sense for us to ask this questions ourselves to our Lord.
Ablutions for example are very precise, so is the question why is the method for salat not there? Is it because salat is not about having something precise? Salat is not about having a method - salat is about connection? Surely, people may have asked at the time - but ablutions are defined in that particular way but salat not. There are more questions related to this you may want to ask that relate to the nature of the Quran itself.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want answers over night, but there should be an end in sight. It doesn't make sense to me that a person with average intelligence, faith in God, and a thirst for knowledge should study "the word of God" for years, maybe even decades and not fully understand what the daily commands of God are. Perhaps I have a mental block these days, but I can't seem to make sense of the Qur'an as I thought I once did. This is why I am questioning the concept of God sending "scriptures" in ancient languages to be translated and interpreted by people of all different languages. Its seems like quite a task to decipher these scripts and actually feel confident that one really knows what it means.
I view this as a learning process. Just like how we learn throughout life we are still learning about the Quran. Like I mentioned, in the Quran itself, in certain times, there may be verses that only really become fully appreciated by certain groups because of the nature of time itself. For me personally, this speaks to our experience of life, time and existence in this world. There are some things in life that we know and other things we learn more about. We don't know all of it however. We still could still learn more about some things. Similar to what Huruf mentioned. The same is true, I believe, for the Quran.
I don't believe that we ourselves make the Quran clear, but Allah will. So once you ask Allah for help, there is confidence and trust in His aid and help. He answers the call of the supplicant when they call upon Him, as it says in the Quran.
If the Qur'an gave you what you say, a clear set of rules, where no room for doubt, for movement beyond, was left, as far as I am concerned, it would be a sham. The Qur'an tells us again, and again, that to God is our fate, we return to God, everything returns to God. God is beyond everything. So, we will never reach a point where we do not have a daubt or incompleteness or something that is not settled. Never. But that is trust, that is faith, the same as we may not fathom everything in a lover, a beloved person, but we trust, we know that the person loves us, we are certain even if we do nto possess the abslute knowledge of that person. What we do know, what we do feel is right, is comforting, es ENOUGH for us to have as much peace as we may have in this world.
You, brother, now have also to go beyond, but not in intellectuality, you have to go beyond in love and heart. It will solve some problems not all but it will give you the comfort to know that eventually everything squares right.
I agree with this. It says many times, repeated in the Quran, can be another cornerstone, that in Allah let the believers put their trust.
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I havestruggled withthis veryissue. I haven't read all the replies in this thread but this translation makes the most sense to me.
The Monotheist Group?
"And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of; for the hearing, eyesight, and heart - all these you are responsible for.? (Qur?an 1736) -
I'm one of those who believes submitting to God will result in the knowledge you seek. It may seem impossible if you don't master the language or haven't researched certain topics yourself yet. But it's entirely possible. The cornerstone of submitting to one God will filter out any wrong understandings you may encounter even if you're just reading translations. They will hit you in the face if they are wrong and it's never too hard to find out their true meaning if God is guiding you. God does not ask much for you to be qualified as one of the guided and protected. The cornerstone one can find in submitting to one God alone sheds light on any matter dealing with our faith. If we keep replacing Gods system with human crafted systems we are still worshipping idols. We haven't fully submitted. We aren't granted guidance nor protection if we do.
Outside this cornerstone, we can make mistakes. God is most forgiving if it does not lead to destroying that cornerstone. You are not committing major sins if you think salaat involves ritual, if you pray 3 - 5 or 7 times a day. You are not committing sin if you are performing hadj in a certain way. All this can be forgiven if they are wrong as long as we submit to one God alone. If we submit to God alone we will be guided into the right direction. There is no doubt in my mind about that promise God makes us being true.
Peace
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Yes but you must not forget that the "submission" starts by turning yourself into a better being through a transformation process which you must struggle on yourself, and that mere submission and thinking this will automatically mean you will be guided is somewhat lackluster. It is not like God will serve your uprightness on a silver plate but you need to realize what must be done yourself by the Spirit of God. We are here to prove our worth as creations, souls, and we are supposed to be able to be independent in maturity but still live with/by the spirit of God and not be of evil. This physical world is controlled by God, but we are responsible for our souls, the abstract. The souls must become purified, and by spreading the light around us be can manage this.
Be of one in God
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Bro, according to Quran, there are 5 prayers
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11114, 2458
And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and at the approach of the night. Indeed, good deeds do away with misdeeds. That is a reminder for those who remember.11114(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 1778 and 3018
Establish prayer at the decline of the sun until the darkness of the night and the Qur'an of dawn. Indeed, the recitation of dawn is ever witnessed.1778And to Him is praise throughout the heavens and the earth. And at night and when you are at noon.3018
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2238
Maintain with care the prayers and the middle prayer and stand before Allah , devoutly obedient.2238(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11114
And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and at the approach of the night. Indeed, good deeds do away with misdeeds. That is a reminder for those who remember.11114(5) The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic), given in 2458
O you who have believed, let those whom your right hands possess and those who have not reached puberty among you ask permission of you at three times before the dawn prayer and when you put aside your clothing at noon and after the night prayer. three times of privacy for you. 2458What I am struggling to understand is how can a book that is supposed to be the word of God, and claims to be clear, be such a mystery to understand? The language it is written, "classical 'Arabic", in is not even spoken anymore and we must rely on the oldest dictionaries in order to decipher the text.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The people who think they own Islam and are superior than all others will do everything to make sure that truth is not revealed. This way their power remains secure. That's what the devil worshiping scholars are doing with us Muslims. So many translations of Quran are intentionally twisted by them that we are left with nothing, but struggle. If you read some verses you will find yourself questioning about their meanings. Its simply because these translations are meant to hide the actual meanings. All so called schools like Hanafi, Wahabbi and others have their mothership in Saudi Arabia. Let me know if you want to see what the Saudi govt worships.
Just like you bro, most of us new Muslims (hadith rejectors) are struggling. Its just because we are rediscovering Islam in a new way. We have actually started from the scratch.
how long the fast is specifically
I thought this verse clearly says how many days to fast.....
The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful.2185
Simple meaning Ramadan is a month of Quran revelation. Fast till it ends.It=Ramadan month
When to break the fast?
It has been made permissible for you the night preceding fasting to go to your wives . They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them. Allah knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He accepted your repentance and forgave you. So now, have relations with them and seek that which Allah has decreed for you. And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread . Then complete the fast until the sunset. And do not have relations with them as long as you are staying for worship in the mosques. These are the limits Allah , so do not approach them. Thus does Allah make clear His ordinances to the people that they may become righteous. 2187I honestly believe there should be a book or a detailed website dedicated to Muslims like us who reject the falsehood called hadith books. It should tell how we can pray and follow Islam without the use of hadith books. I did see some like that. But they are diluted with stuff from Rashad Khalifa. That just makes them slightly untrustworthy.
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Peace reel.
Why do you or others need a book or a detailed website when we have Qoran?
Is the Qoran not detailed enough for us?
Do we really believe GOD and His word?
He clearly says there should be only "one source".
May the Lord keep us loyal to HIm and His words.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Spiritual wellness be with you good logic,
They have Quran, but many people doubt they can interpret it accurately so they look elsewhere for help on this. It may work if they enable their brain processing power and filter nonsense from the good,but there is also a risk with this. Best would be if the scripture was not misinterpreted to begin with.
There is so much conjecture extracted from Quran and we know, for you and others follow some of it, but that is up to you.
Be of one with God
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Peace Man Of Faith.
Yes indeed. I also follow the guidance of the bible as well. The detail in Qoran instructs us to follow all GOD s words.
Following GOD and His word means following all His scriptures.
"GOD s O meter" filters for you His words from "men s words".
GOD bless you.
Peace.
GOD bless -
Why do you or others need a book or a detailed website when we have Qoran?
Is the Qoran not detailed enough for us?
Do we really believe GOD and His word?
He clearly says there should be only "one source".
I know we have the Quran bro. But as you have seen, translations of many verses are corrupted. Its easy to be confused by them. Its even harder for non Arabic speaking people like us. Here we have some excellent members who have worked hard to uncover the true meanings. But since its a forum, their stuffs are scattered. That makes the searching difficult for all those who wish to learn. I just gave the verse above that says how many days to fast. But it will be visible to only those who visit this thread. Google makes no promise to include it in its search results. Even the topic of this thread will get buried somewhere. That means its unlikely for a new Quran only Muslim to get to the answer -[.
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Peace sister.
I think I know what you mean. There is nothing wrong in reading whatever and taking "what is best" .
However, we must also take GOD seriously when He says
"Alrahman, allama alQoran" and " Faidha karaanaho fattabii Qouraanaho" " Thumma inna alaina bayanaho"
Let us trust GOD Alone to guide us through Qoran and the "translations" available out there.
It is the responsibility of every believer to seek GODs help to develop by making the effort, studying persevering...etc.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I have read certain articles about the Qur'an not mentioning any rituals, and that salat, hajj, fasting, are all things to do with our state of mind and our behaviour, but what about things like ablution which seems to be very straightforward and literal, telling us to wash parts of our body ritualistically before "salat"?
I have a million questions, and I'm sure I sound like a crazy person, but I just wanted to share this in case someone might be able to enlighten me or share their thoughts or experiences.
I just want to now the truth, that is all. I want to do what is right by God.
JamesRead aastana.com
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Peace
One of satans tricks is to make you believe you have less than you actually have.
If you have internet access, you have access to Quran Corpus. From there you can easily cross reference the Arabic via grammar and see your own understanding. For instance here is Word By Word for 1736
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=17&verse=36#%2817361%29
On the left hand side you can click "translation", this will show you the verse. You can click Word By Word too in order to go to that part of the verse straightaway (this took me a while to figure out so pay attention so you don't have to!)This will all become clearer as you get to know allah. Allah is The Light of the Heavens and Earth, so we know Allah = The Light. It's as simple as two choices, which dissolve into One when you surrender to The Light. There is a choice to go up, and there is a choice to go down. All other choices are false choices in the world of illusion. You choose Up, then The Light will lead the way. You choose Down, you choose wrong, simple as that. If you go Up, you will feel it. Your body will get healthier physically, mentally, spiritually. Your soul feels nearer to Allah.
At first this path will be hard. With sustained practice, this path will be easy. It's so simple a gnat can do it, so do you think the Creator of Man, with all of his faculties of understanding, reasoning, contemplation, do you think the Creator has left us to wander blindly without guidance?
You have a few messengers talking to you
The messenger in your own heart - your own Ruh (Spirit/Breath)
The messenger in your own self - the conscience
The messenger who brings the truth, and your role as the one who accepts it (3933)
The messengers who have delivered the message of The Book any religion, faith, spirituality, all has the pathAnd leaving that aside you have
The angelic presence (they love cleanliness and virtue)
The jinn presence (some love cleanliness, some don't. Be clean!)And most of all you have
Allah, the Light of the Heavens and Earth.
So if you have a problem, talk directly to Allah but heed the call of all of these messengers. The Jinn beings watch and wait for you to slip, some of them. You feel that force which comes in and washes away and makes you forget, and drowns you in a wall of fuzz so you can't pay attention clearly? That's the jinn presence, the dark one.
If you stay in the Light, the path is lit clearly.
The satan will give you plenty of tricks left right and centre. It's up to one to espouse the quality of humility, this will raise oneself to the higher vibration.
Of utmost importance is that you become your own Self and not other selves. Of utmost importance is that you take Your time and walk gently and in peace. In such circumstances you are raised. Of utmost importance is choosing that which raises us moment by moment, however much we can (6416)
If you don't know something, then start from the ground up and stick to basics. If it works, do it. If it doesn't work, don't do it. Simple.
Leaving that aside. You then have space, a large space called Earth. On it are many objects, objects you can pick up and work with - books of all kinds. They will help you on your journey. The Light does not demand that we shrink and turn averse. Rather The Light demands that we become the highest expression of our own Self, and only then can we master the universe.
hmm peace
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Peace
One of satans tricks is to make you believe you have less than you actually have.
If you have internet access, you have access to Quran Corpus. From there you can easily cross reference the Arabic via grammar and see your own understanding. For instance here is Word By Word for 1736
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=17&verse=36#%2817361%29
On the left hand side you can click "translation", this will show you the verse. You can click Word By Word too in order to go to that part of the verse straightaway (this took me a while to figure out so pay attention so you don't have to!)This will all become clearer as you get to know allah. Allah is The Light of the Heavens and Earth, so we know Allah = The Light. It's as simple as two choices, which dissolve into One when you surrender to The Light. There is a choice to go up, and there is a choice to go down. All other choices are false choices in the world of illusion. You choose Up, then The Light will lead the way. You choose Down, you choose wrong, simple as that. If you go Up, you will feel it. Your body will get healthier physically, mentally, spiritually. Your soul feels nearer to Allah.
At first this path will be hard. With sustained practice, this path will be easy. It's so simple a gnat can do it, so do you think the Creator of Man, with all of his faculties of understanding, reasoning, contemplation, do you think the Creator has left us to wander blindly without guidance?
You have a few messengers talking to you
The messenger in your own heart - your own Ruh (Spirit/Breath)
The messenger in your own self - the conscience
The messenger who brings the truth, and your role as the one who accepts it (3933)
The messengers who have delivered the message of The Book any religion, faith, spirituality, all has the pathAnd leaving that aside you have
The angelic presence (they love cleanliness and virtue)
The jinn presence (some love cleanliness, some don't. Be clean!)And most of all you have
Allah, the Light of the Heavens and Earth.
So if you have a problem, talk directly to Allah but heed the call of all of these messengers. The Jinn beings watch and wait for you to slip, some of them. You feel that force which comes in and washes away and makes you forget, and drowns you in a wall of fuzz so you can't pay attention clearly? That's the jinn presence, the dark one.
If you stay in the Light, the path is lit clearly.
The satan will give you plenty of tricks left right and centre. It's up to one to espouse the quality of humility, this will raise oneself to the higher vibration.
Of utmost importance is that you become your own Self and not other selves. Of utmost importance is that you take Your time and walk gently and in peace. In such circumstances you are raised. Of utmost importance is choosing that which raises us moment by moment, however much we can (6416)
If you don't know something, then start from the ground up and stick to basics. If it works, do it. If it doesn't work, don't do it. Simple.
Leaving that aside. You then have space, a large space called Earth. On it are many objects, objects you can pick up and work with - books of all kinds. They will help you on your journey. The Light does not demand that we shrink and turn averse. Rather The Light demands that we become the highest expression of our own Self, and only then can we master the universe.
hmm peace
Good and useful message, and the tool
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=17&verse=36#%2817361%29
I recomend it wholeheartedly, really really useful, whether youknow Arabic or you don't you can do wonders with it. It has allowed me to get real understanding of many things, of course putting in the work to get the benefits. But really great.
So I agree nobody is helpless in his or her efforts to get ht emost of qur'an.
Salaam
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Salaam everyone,
Imagine there's a lake, this lake hidden deep within a forest, this forest filled with fruits and thorns.
The Quran is the shore surrounding the lake, the forest is the sunnah that exists in the world that leads to the lake - in hadith, in minds, in tradtions
the thorns are the false hadith, the misquotes, the false prophets, all the error that stands in the path.Allah is the light and creator of the lake and the forest and the metaphor and my computer and so on.
I was trapped in a prison in virginia as a juvenile, had been raised in a muslim family but was a hardcore follower of scientism (the idea that science has the final say in truth and reality)
All I had was a Quran and a few simple suras memorized. I studied the arabic alphabet and then would stare for hours at a single side by side english arabic translation. Going back and forth between the memorized sound, the forms of the letters I now knew, and the meaning in english. (I began doing my 5 prayers and even fasted one ramadan)
Few years later I was released and totally abandoned what I had come to love and know. The very root meaning of the word Kufr (ka fa ra - to cover up/conceal/reject) in exchange for the pleasures of friendship that I had before incarceration. Inevitably those pleasures died just as the growth the tiller loves turns to dust.
Now I sit with the yusuf ali translation and everytime there's something ambiguous I first find the verse on the corpus quran site. Then I find the word and I find the root letters (there given at the top of the page when you choose a specific word)
From there I go to this http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm I know they have an app on some devices.
I cannot stress the importance of deeds. Scholarship is beautiful, but I have found my path opened and drawing nearer through righteous action.
May Allah guide us all, and make our paths open and clear, and increase us in knowledge, and destroy falsehood, and allow us islam and the path of the prophet. May we be granted yaqeen (certainty). May we die with laillaha in our hearts and minds and tongues.
(it may be helpful to know the word "hadith" simply means talk. What talk will you believe in?)
ameen