Understanding the story of Lot and homosexuality
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Not at all, what is being done is fahishaand that is what the Qur'an says that they are doing. It does say it. Nowhere it is said that anybody is doing anything with somebody of the same sex. Zina is one thing, fahisha is something else. May be homosexual acts can be fahisha, but by no means fahisha is synonim of homosexual acts. And here is no punishment. It is said that people should be admonised or signalled the uglyness of their doings but nowhere is a punishment alloted. If they repent you stop pointing out what they are doing that is ugly. That is all, there is no judicial punishment for it. just as there is no judicial punishment in 4.15.
The dual has the same form whether it is a male and a female or whether it is two males. You cannot affirm from that that it is talking about two males. It might be or it might not be. If the Qur'an was talking about homosexual acts and was meaning it has the means to make it unequivocal.
Salaam
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I stated that the punishment is DIFFERENT than Zina, but there is still a punishment for it, and a peculiar punishment because it is not the regular punishment of "zina", so here we have a different role (meaning this is NOT a heterosexual sexual misconduct !, this would be a homosexual sexual misconduct)
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416 is clearly MASCULINE and Dual, thus 2 males, check for yourself
"Alazaan" (The two of you) is a masculine dual relative pronoun
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=4&verse=16#(4161)
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Masculine or mixed, it is a male and a female it is that same word, not a different word.
And there is no punishment.
Salaam
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The Punishment is Admonishing (fa2zuhoma), since this is different than regular adultery/fornication (heterosexual), therefor it is a homosexual misconduct, and the punishment is admonishment for the individual, which you have admitted when you stated, "It is said that people should be admonised or signalled the uglyness of their doings ", therefore this is a different "punishment" than for heterosexual misconduct, it is lighter, but the bottom line is, The Quran does not support nor advocate for homosexual activities
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The words are still 416 is clearly Masculine and Dual, thus 2 males,
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=4&verse=16#(4161)
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advise them or point out to them is not a punishment, it is the same kind of thig as when believers are told to enjoin other believers to do right an shun bad. It is no punishment. How much pointing out to them, seven times a day? four hundred? In front of people? alone? Advising and pointing things out to somebody is not punishing anybody. It is no ppenalty that can stretch from the moon to one milimiter.
So, please, spell which verbal from would you use to speak about two, one of them a male and one of them a female, using, of course, the dual?
Are you inventig grammar anew?
Salaam
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advise them or point out to them is not a punishment, it is the same kind of thig as when believers are told to enjoin other believers to do right an shun bad. It is no punishment. How much pointing out to them, seven times a day? four hundred? In front of people? alone? Advising and pointing things out to somebody is not punishing anybody. It is no ppenalty that can stretch from the moon to one milimiter.
So, please, spell which verbal from would you use to speak about two, one of them a male and one of them a female, using, of course, the dual?
Are you inventig grammar anew?
Salaam
The word here is "fa2zuhuma", which has the same root word for when God talks about MENSTRUATION (2222) as "Ezza" = something painful/Harm. The word "fa2zuhoma" would translate to Admonish/chastise them, look at any translation, you think I'm making this up? Look at parallel 50 translations ans see for yourselfhttp//www.islamawakened.com/quran/4/16/default.htm
God is very clear. The word is NOT advise them (3ezohuma), or to point things out to them (qowla baleegha)... The word is "Fa2zuhuma' = Admonish/chastise them, which is a form of a light punishment, as well as clearly telling them what they're doing is wrong.
Note This only applies to BELIEVERS (minkom) who commit this , unbelievers are not under this law.
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Sorry, my mistake, I read wrong your transcription into latin letters. And somehow I got misled into not recalling the original Arabic word which now I indeed recall and recall that I have already discussed in severla occasions, and although it is stronger that the advising thing, I still consider and have considered it not as a punishment but as public rebuking, since what they do is public, in fact the best translations is precisely the one used some times in the aya of the 2.222, annoyance, that is annoy, them both.
Still it is a couple that coming from 4.15, indeed, can be very plainly what I pointed out before, the prostitute and her prospective client. That is, in 4.15 we have femeinine plural, those who ya'atina el fahisha, and next one of those who ya'atina el fahisha with the one she has angled to be her client.
It still seems a disuasory argument to detract them both from doing that kind of thing, but no punishment. Much too imprecise and of course no hint at it being an homosexual couple.
Salaam
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You clearly don't understand that Arabic has a separate Feminine tense. You rely on English translations which strips the preciseness of the Arabic. 424, "what is beyond that" is directed at women, the wording is feminine.
FYI In 416 HOMOSEXUAL activity between two men is addressed, and is to be punished. The wording is Masculine DUAL ( 2 Men, Together, having sex)..... Need I say more?
You will never find support for Same sex marriage from the Quran, Trust me I know because I looked and it is clear as day and night that God created Men for women.
That is Quranically incorrect since unlike adultery, homosexuality does not give rise to an aggrieved party. Stealing, killing, slandering, adultery, wrong fully evicted from your home lands and manslaughter are when the Quran gave authority to hold people liable. Its always when another party is wronged. Homosexuality does not fall into that so the Quran could not give anyone the authority to hold homosexuals liable unless there is a committment by one party over the other by oath and that oath is then violated.
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Peace Bigmo;
Good input there.
God bless you
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An interesting lecture where it is explained about Lot, too.
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OiDrbipW34
The Gay Debate The Bible and Homosexuality
peace
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A recommended book, not only for the issue of homosexuality, but for the general descriptions of the state of Muslim countries et al.
http//www.amazon.com/Homosexuality-Islam-Critical-Reflection-Transgender/dp/1851687017
http//d.gr-assets.com/books/1340863484l/7219701.jpg
http//www.amazon.com/Homosexuality-Islam-Critical-Reflection-Transgender/dp/1851687017