Islamism Vs Islam
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Salamun Alaikum.
The biggest misconception assumed as a fundamental premises in the linked article is "Muhammad is the Founder of Islam."
I invite you to study Qur'an to understand what islam is.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
What makes you think you have the true and right Islam?
When I speak about Mohammed as the founder of islam, I'm speaking in historical terms as a religion which is claimed to have originated from Arabia in 7th Century, not faith terms of "Ohh Adam was the first Muslim".
The point of this article is not a theological analysis, it's analysing how islam has been a political movement since it's historical inception and the idea of "islamism" being something separate is untrue.
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The point of this article is not a theological analysis, it's analysing how islam has been a political movement since it's historical inception and the idea of "islamism" being something separate is untrue.
Correct, Islam is a political movement with power and domination as it's main goal.
However the word "islam" actually has a different meaning.It's the same as "Democrat" is not democratic..
Or "Liberal" is not liberating.. -
I read your blog regarding Gaza. It's honestly a joke. You use Hamas as an excuse for Israels attrocities saying that the missiles falling on Israel gives Israel the right to strike civilian populated villages. You then argue that Gaza is somehow overlooked while Iraq is not being given any attention. Has there been any coalition against Israel? No. Has there been any actions against Israel taken by the UN? No. Your argument is based on the id?a that Muslims only care about Gaza while ignoring the fact that there have been thousands of protestors against ISIS, especially by muslims. You then take an example of Muslim protestors in London for Gaza. There have been protestors in London against ISIS too. But it's not only in Britain, it's in Germany and in many other European countries. Even in the Middle-east many sheikhs have labeled the leader of ISIS as a criminal.
http//s29.postimg.org/nybl9uljr/By_Jx11o_IAAAUQGF.jpg
http//rt.com/news/189168-german-muslims-protest-isis/ "Some two thousand mosques across Germany were called upon by top Muslim clerics to use their Friday rituals to rally against the Islamic State and speak out against beheadings in Syria and Iraq."
Why don't you mention these too? Or are you too busy acting as if Muslims only care about Gaza?
Either the media is pulling a lot of its attention on the pro-Gaza protestors or you're burying your head in the sand.
"If Mexico had the capability to launch rockets into the United States, you would no longer be able to point out Mexico on the world map. Would the media portray that as evil and incomprehensible? "
You should stop acting as if the US were to wipe Mexico off the map because some missiles were fired from Mexico. The US can't nuke Mexico because then it would be brought up in the UN and many countries would have to take action and the US wouldn't be allowed to get away with that crime. This is not WWII anymore.
As a Palestinian, I've spoken a lot more for Iraq and Syria than Palestine.
Saying that Hamas is responsible for Israels attrocities is like saying that Jewish extremist groups are too blame for Hitlers attrocities especially when he killed 6 million jews.
You wrote
"How many people are aware of the centuries upon centuries of anti-semitism (that really originated out of 7th Century Arabia for the Muslims), at a time where Judaism and Christianity were flourishing and well-known and a time when Muhammad was trying to establish his message? How many people understand the threat Judaism posed to Islam at this time, when the Jews refused to accept Muhammad as their prophet? He himself is quoted in the Islamic Sura 95 ?fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war?."
It never orginated in Arabia. It orginated from Europe. The Jews who were expelled from Arabia was because they were siding with the Pagans against Muhammad. Their own loss. Judaism and Christianity were flourishing? When? WW2 were Hitler blamed the Jews for killing Jesus and ended up killing 6 million Jews while there were millions of non-Jews dead? Or Judaism which turned Israel into a stone age region?(Read the talmud) Or what about Jews who served in the Soviet army which raped about 2 million German women in Berlin after the defeat of Hitler?
In any case there is no archaeological evidence of how Israel looked like during Judaism so you really can't say that Judaism was flourishing and reading the talmud it was obviously the opposite. There is no evidence that Moses even existed. Christianity pulled Europe into a stoneage ERA several times and began cracking down on European atheists who were critical of Christianity and considered it complete bullshit. Christianity wasn't flourishing at all. Christianity is hated all over Europe today because it's considered a disease. Most Europeans are only traditionally christians and nothing else. Even they laugh at Christianity, and who wouldn't really?
You act as if anti-semetism orginated from the Middle-east rather than from the West. Most anti-semite theories orginated from the West and not the Middle-east. Anti-Semetism has a long history in Europe. And it didin't begin with Hitler if that's what people assume. It was long before that too.
You're from Pakistan and you're making excuses for Israel. Why doesn't Pakistan stop begging Saudi-Arabia for the hundreds of millions of dollars that flow to Pakistan for refugees? Your country is miserable. It begs Iran for more electricity, while it begs the Arab countries or what you call 'the muslim countries' for more funds. Millions of dollars flow to Pakistan which is sad IMO. Why should the Arab world care about what happens in South-Asia? The funds should not go to South-Asia at all.
Using your logic the Arab world has a right to launch a fullscale attack on Pakistan as a retaliation for the amount of Pakistani jihadists that killed Iraqi citizens. The Pakistani civilians who die is to be blamed on the jihadists.
I actually wanted to read your blog because I find it odd that someone would make excuses for a jewish homeland and I actually got my answer
"Hey Readers of InfidelsAreUs! I'm a British Pakistani, in her 20s, currently studying IR & Politics at University. I turned to study this topic after a lifetime of persecution against my Christian Faith and wanting to raise awareness of the plight of especially Christian & other minorities in Islamic countries. I am the daughter of 2 ex-Muslims and therefore am regarded as an Apostate and Infidel (Kaffir) & due to mistreatment of my family at the hands of my supposedly own Pakistani community, am deeply committed to defending my Faith. My own experiences have given me a deep knowledge into just how severe this life-threatening persecution is & have met fellow converts, read and researched countless testimonies worldwide to discover the same thing we have all been persecuted for the sake of Jesus Christ. Nothing is more intolerable than the intolerant and I work to give a voice to this issue that is repeatedly ignored out of fear & appeasement of Islam. Political correctness is not something I stand for & is never featured on this blog. But even though I am born and raised in the UK and do not suffer to the extent those born outside of the West, we still have this intolerant mindset &mentality prevalent within Western countries & it's time to wake up to it before it's too late. Do feel free to comment on any of the posts you read & I hope I do my job by creating awareness. God Bless )"
That's your blog. Speaking of anti-semetism it was common for christians to blame the Jews for 'killing' Jesus. What a complete joke. The Crusaders were actually massacring Jews big time until the Arab Muslims kicked out the European Christians from Jerusalem. Unlike the European Christians who slaughtered Muslims and Jews, the Arab Muslims were actually kind enough to even absorb the European Christians hence arabization. IMO the Arab Muslims were a lot better than the Christians. I'm not saying they had perfect laws but show me any better. Europe? Was still a stoneage region. South-Asia? Eww.
I'm quoting from this wiki article
"In the early centuries of the Islamic Caliphate, the Islamic law allowed citizens to freely express their views, including criticism of Islam and religious authorities, without fear of persecution. As such, there have been several notable Muslim critics and skeptics of Islam that arose from within the Islamic world itself. In tenth and eleventh-century Syria there lived a blind poet called Al-Ma'arri. He became well known for a poetry that was affected by a "pervasive pessimism." He labeled religions in general as "noxious weeds" and said that Islam does not have a monopoly on truth."
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Islam
This is an example of the criticism from Al-Ma'arri were he said to the Muslims and any other religious people during the Islamic Golden Age(Was it really Islamic given the fact that many who contributed to it were also non-Muslims?)
"They recite their sacred books, although the fact informs me that these are fiction from first to last. O Reason, thou (alone) speakest the truth. Then perish the fools who forged the religious traditions or interpreted them"
"studying IR & Politics at University" Let me guess.. The EDL version of Politics & IR? Are you the Christian version of Anjem Choudry? You shouldn't act as if you're against ISIS when you're supporting a JEWISH homeland. ISIS wants a 'muslim' homeland like the 'Israelies' AKA European/Soviet Immigrants wants a Jewish homeland.
Many Iraqi Christians from Mosul are safe seeking refugee in Kurdistan. And the Peshmerga which is dominantly Muslim is defending Christian churches and anything that regards itself as Kurdish. Your 'divide Muslims and Christians' will not work atleast not in the Arab world. It might work in Europe because both European Christians and European 'Muslims' are primitive. The Arab Christians are proudly serving in the Iraqi army along with their Muslim brethren killing Islamic state members especially those scumbags that hold British citizenship which Britain(A terrorist country) is not taking any responsibility to prevent or arrest. You should tell the Arab Christians especially in Iraq that you hate Muslims and that you support Israel and they'll tell you to go back to Pakistan or Europe. I've visited many Arab countries and I know for sure that the Arab Christians support their countries against any country anyday whether it be Britain, Israel, or whatever. The Arab Christians are much more smarter than the European/South-Asian Christians IMO. The Arab countries were one of the founders of Arab nationalism(calling for the liberation of Palestine) especially people like Michel Aflaq. But it was not the only Arab Christians but even atheists as well and their work will always be respected. I also find it sad that you label the Arab countries as 'Muslim countries'. We are not 'muslim' countries. Pakistan or any other South-Asian country is a Muslim country. The Arab countries have a strong tradition and long history of Arab nationalism were Arab Christians, Muslims and any other Arab regardless of religion rule the foreigners. Your stupid Britain is funding ISIS and have a strong history of funding ISIS indirectly.
Unlike you, I do not support the Iraqi Christians because they are Christians I support them because they are Iraqis and because they're human beings. I'd support any Iraqi regardless of his/her religion anyday against fake 'muslim'- or Christian trash. Iraqs F16 are looking for the Anjem Choudrys whether they be the Christian version or the 'Muslim' version. Hurt any Iraqi citizen whether the citizen be a Muslim, Christian, Jew or homosexual then prepare to have an F-16 launched at you. I laugh my arse off everytime I see dead British 'muslim' terrorists. When are EDL going to die in big numbers too like their fellow British 'muslim' terrorists? Funny sh't. Go Iraq and keep valuing the lives of your citizens. Iraq is like the new Saladin that chased the Crusaders out of Jerusalem. The Crusaders killed Muslims like cowards and then a huge Muslim Arab army came and annilihated the Crusaders and sent them back to their fake European oompa loompa God. ISIS kills thousands of Muslims and Christian civilians but soon the Iraqi army will come after ISIS were the Islamic state members will run off like rats to Europe which will be a safe-haven for them.
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Peace JiburIsham.
Are you a Christian? So you believe in God then?
Just asking as I find your posts confusing.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Bold Agreed.
The impression I get is that he/she doesn't clearly show whether he/she believes in God or not.
Salm.
Now you sound negative towards this person. I dislike this sectarian style inhospitality by raising up the question about belief vs. disbelief. Everything does not circle around that matter.
Peace
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Now you sound negative towards this person.
I told the impression I get.
I would prefer if members of this forum shows clearly whether they support God or not.
. . . about belief vs. disbelief. Everything does not circle around that matter.
How about this then?
The impression I get is that he/she doesn't clearly show whether he/she has faith in God or not.
Salm.
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I read your blog regarding Gaza. It's honestly a joke. You use Hamas as an excuse for Israels attrocities saying that the missiles falling on Israel gives Israel the right to strike civilian populated villages. You then argue that Gaza is somehow overlooked while Iraq is not being given any attention. Has there been any coalition against Israel? No. Has there been any actions against Israel taken by the UN? No. Your argument is based on the id?a that Muslims only care about Gaza while ignoring the fact that there have been thousands of protestors against ISIS, especially by muslims. You then take an example of Muslim protestors in London for Gaza. There have been protestors in London against ISIS too. But it's not only in Britain, it's in Germany and in many other European countries. Even in the Middle-east many sheikhs have labeled the leader of ISIS as a criminal.
http//s29.postimg.org/nybl9uljr/By_Jx11o_IAAAUQGF.jpg
http//rt.com/news/189168-german-muslims-protest-isis/ "Some two thousand mosques across Germany were called upon by top Muslim clerics to use their Friday rituals to rally against the Islamic State and speak out against beheadings in Syria and Iraq."
Why don't you mention these too? Or are you too busy acting as if Muslims only care about Gaza?
Either the media is pulling a lot of its attention on the pro-Gaza protestors or you're burying your head in the sand.
"If Mexico had the capability to launch rockets into the United States, you would no longer be able to point out Mexico on the world map. Would the media portray that as evil and incomprehensible? "
You should stop acting as if the US were to wipe Mexico off the map because some missiles were fired from Mexico. The US can't nuke Mexico because then it would be brought up in the UN and many countries would have to take action and the US wouldn't be allowed to get away with that crime. This is not WWII anymore.
As a Palestinian, I've spoken a lot more for Iraq and Syria than Palestine.
Saying that Hamas is responsible for Israels attrocities is like saying that Jewish extremist groups are too blame for Hitlers attrocities especially when he killed 6 million jews.
You wrote
"How many people are aware of the centuries upon centuries of anti-semitism (that really originated out of 7th Century Arabia for the Muslims), at a time where Judaism and Christianity were flourishing and well-known and a time when Muhammad was trying to establish his message? How many people understand the threat Judaism posed to Islam at this time, when the Jews refused to accept Muhammad as their prophet? He himself is quoted in the Islamic Sura 95 ?fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war?."
It never orginated in Arabia. It orginated from Europe. The Jews who were expelled from Arabia was because they were siding with the Pagans against Muhammad. Their own loss. Judaism and Christianity were flourishing? When? WW2 were Hitler blamed the Jews for killing Jesus and ended up killing 6 million Jews while there were millions of non-Jews dead? Or Judaism which turned Israel into a stone age region?(Read the talmud) Or what about Jews who served in the Soviet army which raped about 2 million German women in Berlin after the defeat of Hitler?
In any case there is no archaeological evidence of how Israel looked like during Judaism so you really can't say that Judaism was flourishing and reading the talmud it was obviously the opposite. There is no evidence that Moses even existed. Christianity pulled Europe into a stoneage ERA several times and began cracking down on European atheists who were critical of Christianity and considered it complete bullshit. Christianity wasn't flourishing at all. Christianity is hated all over Europe today because it's considered a disease. Most Europeans are only traditionally christians and nothing else. Even they laugh at Christianity, and who wouldn't really?
You act as if anti-semetism orginated from the Middle-east rather than from the West. Most anti-semite theories orginated from the West and not the Middle-east. Anti-Semetism has a long history in Europe. And it didin't begin with Hitler if that's what people assume. It was long before that too.
You're from Pakistan and you're making excuses for Israel. Why doesn't Pakistan stop begging Saudi-Arabia for the hundreds of millions of dollars that flow to Pakistan for refugees? Your country is miserable. It begs Iran for more electricity, while it begs the Arab countries or what you call 'the muslim countries' for more funds. Millions of dollars flow to Pakistan which is sad IMO. Why should the Arab world care about what happens in South-Asia? The funds should not go to South-Asia at all.
Using your logic the Arab world has a right to launch a fullscale attack on Pakistan as a retaliation for the amount of Pakistani jihadists that killed Iraqi citizens. The Pakistani civilians who die is to be blamed on the jihadists.
I actually wanted to read your blog because I find it odd that someone would make excuses for a jewish homeland and I actually got my answer
"Hey Readers of InfidelsAreUs! I'm a British Pakistani, in her 20s, currently studying IR & Politics at University. I turned to study this topic after a lifetime of persecution against my Christian Faith and wanting to raise awareness of the plight of especially Christian & other minorities in Islamic countries. I am the daughter of 2 ex-Muslims and therefore am regarded as an Apostate and Infidel (Kaffir) & due to mistreatment of my family at the hands of my supposedly own Pakistani community, am deeply committed to defending my Faith. My own experiences have given me a deep knowledge into just how severe this life-threatening persecution is & have met fellow converts, read and researched countless testimonies worldwide to discover the same thing we have all been persecuted for the sake of Jesus Christ. Nothing is more intolerable than the intolerant and I work to give a voice to this issue that is repeatedly ignored out of fear & appeasement of Islam. Political correctness is not something I stand for & is never featured on this blog. But even though I am born and raised in the UK and do not suffer to the extent those born outside of the West, we still have this intolerant mindset &mentality prevalent within Western countries & it's time to wake up to it before it's too late. Do feel free to comment on any of the posts you read & I hope I do my job by creating awareness. God Bless )"
That's your blog. Speaking of anti-semetism it was common for christians to blame the Jews for 'killing' Jesus. What a complete joke. The Crusaders were actually massacring Jews big time until the Arab Muslims kicked out the European Christians from Jerusalem. Unlike the European Christians who slaughtered Muslims and Jews, the Arab Muslims were actually kind enough to even absorb the European Christians hence arabization. IMO the Arab Muslims were a lot better than the Christians. I'm not saying they had perfect laws but show me any better. Europe? Was still a stoneage region. South-Asia? Eww.
I'm quoting from this wiki article
"In the early centuries of the Islamic Caliphate, the Islamic law allowed citizens to freely express their views, including criticism of Islam and religious authorities, without fear of persecution. As such, there have been several notable Muslim critics and skeptics of Islam that arose from within the Islamic world itself. In tenth and eleventh-century Syria there lived a blind poet called Al-Ma'arri. He became well known for a poetry that was affected by a "pervasive pessimism." He labeled religions in general as "noxious weeds" and said that Islam does not have a monopoly on truth."
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Islam
This is an example of the criticism from Al-Ma'arri were he said to the Muslims and any other religious people during the Islamic Golden Age(Was it really Islamic given the fact that many who contributed to it were also non-Muslims?)
"They recite their sacred books, although the fact informs me that these are fiction from first to last. O Reason, thou (alone) speakest the truth. Then perish the fools who forged the religious traditions or interpreted them"
"studying IR & Politics at University" Let me guess.. The EDL version of Politics & IR? Are you the Christian version of Anjem Choudry? You shouldn't act as if you're against ISIS when you're supporting a JEWISH homeland. ISIS wants a 'muslim' homeland like the 'Israelies' AKA European/Soviet Immigrants wants a Jewish homeland.
Many Iraqi Christians from Mosul are safe seeking refugee in Kurdistan. And the Peshmerga which is dominantly Muslim is defending Christian churches and anything that regards itself as Kurdish. Your 'divide Muslims and Christians' will not work atleast not in the Arab world. It might work in Europe because both European Christians and European 'Muslims' are primitive. The Arab Christians are proudly serving in the Iraqi army along with their Muslim brethren killing Islamic state members especially those scumbags that hold British citizenship which Britain(A terrorist country) is not taking any responsibility to prevent or arrest. You should tell the Arab Christians especially in Iraq that you hate Muslims and that you support Israel and they'll tell you to go back to Pakistan or Europe. I've visited many Arab countries and I know for sure that the Arab Christians support their countries against any country anyday whether it be Britain, Israel, or whatever. The Arab Christians are much more smarter than the European/South-Asian Christians IMO. The Arab countries were one of the founders of Arab nationalism(calling for the liberation of Palestine) especially people like Michel Aflaq. But it was not the only Arab Christians but even atheists as well and their work will always be respected. I also find it sad that you label the Arab countries as 'Muslim countries'. We are not 'muslim' countries. Pakistan or any other South-Asian country is a Muslim country. The Arab countries have a strong tradition and long history of Arab nationalism were Arab Christians, Muslims and any other Arab regardless of religion rule the foreigners. Your stupid Britain is funding ISIS and have a strong history of funding ISIS indirectly.
Unlike you, I do not support the Iraqi Christians because they are Christians I support them because they are Iraqis and because they're human beings. I'd support any Iraqi regardless of his/her religion anyday against fake 'muslim'- or Christian trash. Iraqs F16 are looking for the Anjem Choudrys whether they be the Christian version or the 'Muslim' version. Hurt any Iraqi citizen whether the citizen be a Muslim, Christian, Jew or homosexual then prepare to have an F-16 launched at you. I laugh my arse off everytime I see dead British 'muslim' terrorists. When are EDL going to die in big numbers too like their fellow British 'muslim' terrorists? Funny sh't. Go Iraq and keep valuing the lives of your citizens. Iraq is like the new Saladin that chased the Crusaders out of Jerusalem. The Crusaders killed Muslims like cowards and then a huge Muslim Arab army came and annilihated the Crusaders and sent them back to their fake European oompa loompa God. ISIS kills thousands of Muslims and Christian civilians but soon the Iraqi army will come after ISIS were the Islamic state members will run off like rats to Europe which will be a safe-haven for them.
Well said! bravo
Unfortunately, there's hardly any sense of a common nation in Pakistan. People are still into all sorts of divisions based on provinces, language, tribe & family, social class, education & profession, religion, religious sect.
It seems in deed many of the people of the subcontinent still suffer from some sort of minority complex from the days when the British were there to screw the land. Either people are rigidly against everything western, or they still secretly but obviously regard the "white man" as the master, the ideal. Christians I've seen seem to think themselves more British or western than Europeans themselves. Just because they by name belong to the same religion, they still don't have anything in common with Europeans, no matter how desperately they think they do. Being Christian don't make you Western! Calling oneself christian doesn't magically mean you have a European culture. Colonialism really got mixed up with religion in this case.
I'm so sick of "this religion is better than that religion". It's so sad when people make an identity based on opposition. We're all human beings, but those who insist on separation are no better than a racist. A human is a human. Ignorance is indeed ruling the world. brickwall
Peace?
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this clears up my religious position
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606879.0;topicseen@
which blog about Gaza are you referring to? I think you have me confused with someone else
I only made a guest post on that blog. The actual website/blog is of a Christian I know. I'm not even a Christian
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Salamun Alaikum
Let's get back to the original discussion shall we?
What makes you think you have the true and right Islam?
"Islam" is not a material object that we can define in space and time and hence there has to be a true islam and the rest are only fake copies. "Islam" is a concept that needs to be defined. I was talking about "islam" as described in the Qur'an. Qur'an does not suggest that Muhammad was the founder of "Islam".
When I speak about Mohammed as the founder of islam, I'm speaking in historical terms as a religion which is claimed to have originated from Arabia in 7th Century, not faith terms of "Ohh Adam was the first Muslim".
The point of this article is not a theological analysis, it's analysing how islam has been a political movement since it's historical inception and the idea of "islamism" being something separate is untrue.
In the above, you are already aknowledging two separate definitions of "islam"; per your words "Islam" can be understood - 1) as a religion which is claimed to have originated from Arabia in 7th Century; 2) faith terms suggesting Adam was the first Muslim (although this statement, too, is un-Qur'anic, yet it is a much better proxy for Quranic idea of islam); then you are saying you are talking about 1 not 2. So in your own statement you are acknowledging there is a difference between 1 and 2.
There is an active movement to discover and promote the islam per Qur'an and highlight that this islam (Your no 2) is different from the religion claimed to have originated from Arabia in 7th Century - defined, standardized and promoted by the 9th-10th century clericks (Your no 1). I believe you are referring to this movement as "islamism"?
Then you are claiming how islam has been a political movement since it's historical inception (your number 1) and the idea of "islamism" (a movement to rediscover and promote no 2) are NOT separate. Aren't you contradicting yourself (because you already acknowledged difference between 1 and 2)?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
No contradiction, because pointing out how one and two are different has nothing to do with the point of islam and islamism not being indistincy.
your tailing off into a discussion about what quranist islam is/isn't, which is irrelevant to the thread.
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Mr. Jibur. Salam.
Quoting from your article in discussion
The narrative that Islamism is just a ?distorted political/militant ideology that is separate from the true Islam? actually impedes addressing the doctrines of Islam used by fundamentalist Muslims.
My understanding was the entire point of your article is this "narrative that Islamism is just a distorted political/militant ideology that is separate from the true Islam? - has no basis. Based on that I tried to show that you yourself are distinguishing between the concept of islam on theoligical terms (i.e. Adam was first muslim etc.), a.k.a. the so called "true islam", and the concept of "Islam" as a religion founded in 7th century a.k.a. the so called "islamism". If this is not what you are talking about then please accept my appologies - I must have misunderstood the point of your article.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Best regards,
Arman -
If the standard Muslim would act out on what they think is true in terms of narratives then they would be as islamists, but most do not and the irony is that they ought to "disbelieve" according to their own way of thinking and be kafar (kafar does not mean disbelieve, but that is another story). It is an amusing contradiction. They hence do not have faith in what themselves read and propagate, because if they debate about it they say this or that, but they may not do it (thankfully).
But the scary thing is that they have somewhat faith that it is true and this is why some become militant islamists/jihadists.
Be of one with God
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If the standard Muslim would act out on what they think is true in terms of narratives then they would be as islamists, but most do not and the irony is that they ought to "disbelieve" according to their own way of thinking and be kafar (kafar does not mean disbelieve, but that is another story). It is an amusing contradiction. They hence do not have faith in what themselves read and propagate, because if they debate about it they say this or that, but they may not do it (thankfully).
But the scary thing is that they have somewhat faith that it is true and this is why some become militant islamists/jihadists.
Be of one with God
Yes, I've also noticed this contradiction. It's often a very ignored and untold contradiction among muslims, while many people who are against Islam actually point out this thing although indirectly, and it's quite understandable. This is something the average Muslim need to come to terms with... to really ponder it and think what implications the whole scenario may have.
Peace
Yes, I've
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Spiritual harmony upon you, brother Zulf
I hope that there will be more people who begin to criticize what they themselves think is true and put their faith in. According to me most are merely useless narratives with signs of utterly delusional contents. Problem is that this is just what the "religion" Islam is built around, i.e. a lot of invented stories which have been associated with innocent Arabic, and Aramaic originating, words and the falsehood did not begin with Qur'an but it was likely ongoing even before it was composed however the deluded people got something to associate their wild ideas with in terms of these innocent Arabic/Aramaic words.
That people indulged in ritualism, and the way so-called Muslims pray, was already prominent before Qur'an was composed, but this is by far not a means that this practice is "authentic" God commandment. However, before Qur'an, or the erroneous interpretations, ritualistic praying commandment was not commanded according to the scriptures found in for example the Bible although people sporadically worshiped The Master God in ways of prostration, however never explicitly commanded by God it is a customary choice to show glorification for many people. It is first in the corrupted interpretations of Qur'an where this commanded phenomenon occurs and it is an invention based on innocent Arabic words, most importantly "salat" (ة which interpretation as "contact prayer" or whatever does not even add up in a more deep analysis from a linguistic perspective nor even literalistic quality (jumping from a context right upon "contact prayer" and then back to topic such as in 2238 and surrounding passages). And you know I propagate nearly aggressively, or at least continue despite heavy resistance on this, but that is for your sake that I do it and not mine because I am already knowing, and I work on developing more insight there to one day be able to convince the masses.
One way people have circumvented this is by inventing that Arabic root words have multiple meanings while innately they have just one meaning except that they may be used differently in the context and also by help from various affixes. It must be taken far until they mean something entirely different in a context or otherwise in that case the whole passage is likely traditionally completely chaotic in its interpretation.
The perception that God must be pleased by a lot of ritualistic behavior has its roots in human ideas of what is God and the "object God" comes forth in their perception while God in fact is an abstract entity which can impossibly be personified as a standard character and since That God is omnipresent, available at all locales, then also common rituals lose their meaning. Earlier people may have known this but then their imagination turned them into using something such as "Kabah", an innocent building, as so-called qiblah or focal point (which the word does not translate into), so that God becomes an image of something so they can materialistically worship something just like their gods of old which they put into stone statues or whatever. People do something just like what father Abraham was so much against during his life and then also defend it that this man was praying for rituals (!) or other invented nonsense. Talk about "shirk" while the man never even uttered a thing like that.
Older scriptures such as those in the Bible seem to indicate that people prayed towards Jerusalem, but this is since people were ignorant also in these ages and wanted to make locations holy even though this is not holier than the people inhabiting a location. The phenomenon of perceiving God as an object is going far back into time and instead of many idols they reverted their practices into one big one and made its idol stone structure in Mecca. Ironically if the narratives in hearsay are true they had many stone statues within the Kabah building, but ironically this was just replaced by a huge one which originally contained the many gods. One can interestingly enough see this as an analogy.
Be of one with God
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The perception that God must be pleased by a lot of ritualistic behavior has its roots in human ideas of what is God and the "object God" comes forth in their perception while God in fact is an abstract entity which can impossibly be personified as a standard character and since That God is omnipresent, available at all locales, then also common rituals lose their meaning. Earlier people may have known this but then their imagination turned them into using something such as "Kabah", an innocent building, as so-called qiblah or focal point (which the word does not translate into), so that God becomes an image of something so they can materialistically worship something just like their gods of old which they put into stone statues or whatever. People do something just like what father Abraham was so much against during his life and then also defend it that this man was praying for rituals (!) or other invented nonsense. Talk about "shirk" while the man never even uttered a thing like that.
Salamun Alaikum.
I have some comments on the above. Instead of diverting too much from the original topic in this thread, I have started a new thread here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606914.msg357650#msg357650
Best regards,
Arman