The Qur'an, islam and the Personalized God
-
Peace Brothers and sisters.
( He, Him.. I use.do not refer to gender!)
GOD tells us who HE is, what HE does, and what He expect from us?We need to ponders His words? For example we cannot see Him but HE sees us, we only have a little knowledge but HE is the all knowledgeable...etc And get closer and closer to HIM to get to know HIM better? Through His scriptures!
Qoran 2760] Who is the One who created the heavens and the earth? Who is the One who sends down to you from the sky water, whereby we produce gardens full of beauty - you could not possibly manufacture its trees? Is it another god with God? Indeed, they are people who have deviated.
Who is the One who made the earth habitable, caused rivers to run through it, placed on it mountains, and created a barrier between the two waters? Is it another god with God? Indeed, most of them do not know.
Who is the One who rescues those who become desperate and call upon Him, relieves adversity, and makes you inheritors of the earth? Is it another god with God? Rarely do you take heed.
Who is the One who initiates the creation, then repeats it? Who is the One who provides for you from the heaven and the earth? Is it another god with God? Say, "Show me your proof, if you are truthful."
Say, "Who provides for you from the heaven and the earth? Who controls all the hearing and the eyesight? Who produces the living from the dead, and the dead from the living? Who is in control of all things?" They would say, "God." Say, "Why then do you not observe the commandments?"
Say, "Who is the Lord of the seven universes; the Lord of the great dominion?"
They will say, "God." Say, "Why then do you not turn righteous?"
Say, "In whose hand is all sovereignty over all things, and He is the only one who can provide help, but needs no help, if you know?"
They will say, "God." Say, "Where did you go wrong?"Say, "Who is the Lord of the heavens and the earth?" Say, "God." Say, "Why then do you set up besides Him masters who do not possess any power to benefit or harm even themselves?".....
Who is there to provide for you, if He withholds His provisions? Indeed, they have plunged deep into transgression and aversion.
Say, "He is the One who initiated you, and granted you the hearing, the eyes, and the brains. Rarely are you appreciative."
Say, "He is the One who placed you on earth, and before Him you will be summoned.Most exalted is the One in whose hands is all kingship, and He is Omnipotent.
The One who created death and life for the purpose of distinguishing those among you who would do better. He is the Almighty, the Forgiving
God is the One who created you. He is the One who provides for you. He is the One who puts you to death. He is the One who resurrects you. Can any of your idols do any of these things? Be He glorified. He is much too exalted to have any partners.God is the One who sent down the scripture, to deliver the truth and the law. For all that you know, the Hour (Day of Judgment) may be very close.
Ponder His words, get to know Him better, Follow His instructions, get closer and closer to Him.
He will become very near when you call Him , nearer to you than your jugular veins.
When you start to feel "God" near you, stay loyal to Him Alone,stay closer to Him. It will be difficult except for the "Reverent".
GOD bless you all.
Peace.You would know him better by reciting the 99 names than reading the above.
Allah The Greatest Name
1 Ar-Rahman Ar-Rahman The All-Merciful Who repeat this name 100 times after each fard (Obligatory) prayer will have good memory, a keen awareness, and be free of a heavy heart.
2 Ar-Rahim Ar-Rahim The All-Beneficent He who repeat this name 100 times after each Fajr (Early Morning) prayer will find everyone to be friendly towards him and he will be safe from all worldly calamities.
3 Al-Malik Al-Malik The Absolute Ruler He who repeats this name many times every day after the morning prayer. Will become rich by the grace of Allah.
4 Al-Quddus Al-Quddus The Pure One The heart of those who repeat this name 100 times each day will be free from anxiety.
5 As-Salam As-Salam The Source of Peace He who repeats this name 160 time to a sick person, will help him to regain health. He who repeats this name frequently will be safe from all calamities.
6 Al-Mumin Al-Mumin The Inspirer of Faith He who repeats this name 631 times will be safe from harm.
7 Al-Muhaymin Al-Muhaymin The Guardian He who takes bath and offers two rak?ats of prayer and repeats this Name 100 times with sincere concentration, Allah will purify his external as well as internal condition.
8 Al-Aziz Al-Aziz The Victorious He who repeats this Name 41 times after each Fazar prayer will be independent of need from others and gain honour after disgrace.
9 Al-Jabbar The Compeller He who repeats this Name will not be compelled to do anything against his wishes, and will not be exposed to voilence, severity or hardness.
10 Al-Mutakabbir The Greatest He who repeats this Name frequently will be granted status and respect. If He repeats this Name frequently at the commencement of every act, He will achieve success by the grace of Allah.
11 Al-Khaliq The Creator He who repeats this Name 100 times for seven days without break, Allah will create an angel whose duty will be to act righteously for this person until the Day of Judgement. The reward for angel?s actions will be given to that person. See also under Al-Musawwir.
12 Al-Bari The Maker of Order He who creates all things in proportion. See also the suggestions under Al-Musawwir.
13 Al-Musawwir The Shaper of Beauty If a woman who desires to give a birth, but cannot, fasts seven days, and each day at the breaking of the fast (iftaar) she repeats these three Names twenty-one times, breathes into a glass of water, and then breaks the fast with this water, Allah will bless her with a child.
14 Al-Ghaffar The Forgiving He who repeats this Name will be forgiven his sins.
15 Al-Qahhar The Subduer The soul of him who repeats this Name Will conquer the desires of the flesh, and his heart will be made free from the attractions of the world and gain inner peace. this Name also frees one from being wronged.
16 Al-Wahhab The Giver of All If a man suffering from poverty and starvation repeats this Name frequently or keeps it with him written on a piece of paper or repeats this Name 40 times in the last Sajda if the Chasht prayer, Allah will relieve him of his poverty, want and starvation in a wonderful way.
17 Ar-Razzaq The Sustainer He who repeats this Name will be provided with sustenance by Allah.
18 Al-Fattah The Opener The heart of him who repeats this Name will be open, and he will be given victory.
19 Al-Alim The Knower of All He who repeats this Name, his heart will become luminous, revealing divine light(Nur).
20 Al-Qabid The Constrictor He who writhes this name on 4 pieces of food (fruit, bread,etc.) and eats them for 40 days will be free from hunger.
21 Al-Basit The Reliever He who repeats this Name 10 times after Chasht prayer with open hands (palms up), then rubs his face with his hands, will be free of need from others.
22 Al-Khafid The Abaser Those who fast three days, and on the fourth day repeat this Name 70 times in a gathering, Allah will free them from harm by their enemy. Allah will fulfill the need of one who repeats this Name 500 times daily.
23 Ar-Rafi The Exalter He who repeats this Name 101 times day and night, Allah will make him higher, as far as honour, richness and merit are concerned.
24 Al-Muizz The Bestower of Honors He who repeats this name 140 times after Maghrib prayer on Monday or Friday nights, Allah will make him dignified in the eyes of others. That person will fear no one but Allah.
25 Al-Mudhill The Humiliator He who repeats this Name 75 times will be free from harm by those who are jealous of him and wish to harm him. Allah will protect him.
26 As-Sami The Hearer of All He who repeats this Name 500, 100 or 50 times without speaking to anyone on thursday after the chasht prayer, Allah will bestow on him anything he desires.
27 Al-Basir The Seer of All He who repeats this Names 100 times after Friday afternoon prayer, Allah will give this person light in his sight and enlighten his heart.
28 Al-Hakam The Judge He who repeats this Name many times at night, many secrets (sirr) will be revealed to him.
29 Al-Adl The Just On Friday night or day, if you write this Name on a piece of bread and eat it people will obey you.
30 Al-Latif The Subtle One He who repeats this Name 133 times daily will have increase in his sustenance and all his affairs will be settled to his satisfaction.
31 Al-Khabir The All-Aware If a mam is a victim of selfish desires and bad habits he will be relieved of these if he repeats this Name regularly.
32 Al-Halim The Forebearing He who write this Name on a piece of paper, washes it with water and sprinkles that water on anything that thing will become safe from loss and calamities.
33 Al-Azim The Magnificent Those who repeat this Name many times will be respected.
34 Al-Ghafur The Forgiver and Hider of Faults He who has a headache, fever and despondent, and continuously repeats this Name will be relieved of his ailment and will have Allah?s forgiveness.
35 Ash-Shakur The Rewarder of Thankfulness He who is afflicted with monitory troubles or with any other calamity and suffering, if he repeats this Name 41 tmes daily.
36 Al-Ali The Highest He who repeats this Name regularly and keep it with him after writing it on a piece of paper will attain high rank, affluence and success in his (lawful) desires.
37 Al-Kabir The Greatest He who repeats this Name 100 times each day will have esteem.
38 Al-Hafiz The Preserver He who repeats this Name frequently and keeps it with him will be protected against calamities.
39 Al-Muqit The Nourisher If someone with a bad mannered child repeats this Name into a glass of water, and gives this water to the child to drink, the child will have good manners.
40 Al-Hasib The Accounter He who faces any problem should repeat this Name many times.
41 Al-Jalil The Mighty He who writes this Name on a piece of paper with musk and saffron and keeps it with him and repeats this Name frequently will attain honour and status.
42 Al-Karim The Generous He who repeats this Name many times at bedtime will have esteem in this world (and the Hereafter among the learned and righteous people).
43 Ar-Raqib The Watchful One He who repeats this Name seven times on himself, his family and property, all will be under Allah?s protection.
44 Al-Mujib The Responder to Prayer The appeal of him who repeats this Name will be answered.
45 Al-Wasi The All-Comprehending If one who has difficulty in earning, repeats this Name frequently, will have good earnings.
46 Al-Hakim The Perfectly Wise He who repeats this Name continuously (from time to time) will not have difficulties in his work, and Allah will open to him the door of wisdom.
47 Al-Wadud The Loving One If there is a quarrel between two people (e.g. wife and husband) and one of them repeats this Name 1000 times over some food and has the other person to eat the food, there will be no disagreement between them.
48 Al-Maj?d The Majestic One He who repeats this Name gains glory.
49 Al-Baith The Resurrector He who repeats this Name gains the fear of Allah.
50 Ash-Shahid The Witness He who has disobedient children or wife and repeats this Name in the morning over them 21 times daily with his hand placed on his/her forhead he/she will become obedient.
51 Al-Haqq The Truth If one has something and repeats this Name, he will find what is lost.
52 Al-Wakil The Trustee He who is afraid of drowining, being burnt in a fire, or any similar danger, and repeats this Name continuously (from time to time), will be under the protection of Allah.
53 Al-Qawi The Possessor of All Strength He who cannot defeat his enemy, and repeats this Name with the intention of not being harmed, will be free from his enemy?s harm.
54 Al-Matin The Forceful One If one has troubles and repeats this Name, his troubles will disappear.
55 Al-Wali The Governor He who repeats this Name is likely to be a walyullah, the friend of Allah.
56 Al-Hamid The Praised One He who repeats this Name will be loved and praised.
57 Al-Muhsi The Appraiser He who is afraid of being questioned on the Judgement Day, and repeats this Name 100 times daily, will have ease and clementy.
58 Al-Mubdi The Originator If This Name is repeated and breathed towards a pregnant woman who is afaid of aborting, she will be free of danger.
59 Al-Muid The Restorer If this Name is repeated 70 times for someone who is away from his family, that person will return safely in seven days.
60 Al-Muhyi The Giver of Life If a person has a heavy burden and repeats this Name seven times each day, his burden will be taken away.
61 Al-Mumit The Taker of Life This Name is repeated to destroy one?s enmy.
62 Al-Hayy The Ever Living One He who repeats this Name will have a long life.
63 Al-Qayyum The Self-Existing One He who repeats this Name will not fall into inadvertency.
64 Al-Wajid The Finder He who repeats this Name will have richness of heart.
65 Al-Majid The Glorious He who repeats this Name in privacy and sincerely, his heart will be enlightened.
66 Al-Wahid The Only One He who repeats this Name 1000 times in privacy and in a quiet place will be free from fear and delusion.
67 Al-Ahad The One He who repeats this Name 1000 times will have certain secrets opened to him.
68 As-Samad The Satisfier of All Needs He who repeats this Name many times, Allah will provide his need, and as result he will not need others, but they will need him.
69 Al-Qadir The All Powerful He who repeats this Name, all his Desires will be fulfilled.
70 Al-Muqtadir The Creator of All Power He who repeats this Name will be aware of the truth.
71 Al-Muqaddim The Expediter He who repeats this Name on the battlefield, or who has fear of being alone in an aweinspiring place, no harm will come to him and will become obedient to Allah.
72 Al-Muakhkhir The Delayer He who repeats this Name in the heart 100 times each day, only love of Allah will remain. No other love can enter.
73 Al-Awwal The First A childless person will be blessed with a child if he repeats this name 40 times daily for 40 days. If a traveler repeats it 1000 times on a Friday he will reach home safe and sound.
74 Al-Akhir The Last He who repeats this Name many times will lead a good life and at the end of this life will have a good death.
75 Az-Zahir The Manifest One He who recites this Name 15 times after Friday (jumm?a prayer) divine light (Noor) will enter his heart.
76 Al-Batin The Hidden One He who repeats this Name three times each day will be able to see the truth in things.
77 Al-Wal? The Protecting Friend He who repeats this Name and breathes it into his house, his house will be free from danger.
78 Al-Mutaali The Supreme One He who repeats this Name many times will gain the benevolence of Allah.
79 Al-Barr The Doer of Good He who repeats this Name to his child, this child will be free from misfortune.
80 At-Tawwab The Guide to Repentance He who repeats this Name many times, his repentance will be accepted.
81 Al-Muntaqim The Avenger He who repeats this Names for 3 Fridays many times will be victorious against his enemies.
82 Al-Afu The Forgiver He who repeats this Name many times, all his sins will be forgiven.
83 Ar-Rauf The Clement He who repeats this Name many times will be blessed by Allah.
84 Malik al-Mulk The Owner of All He who repeats this Name will have esteem among people.
85 Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram The Lord of Majesty and Bounty He who repeats this Name many times, will be rich.
86 Al-Muqsit The Equitable One He who repeat this Name will be free from the harm of the devil.
87 Al-Jami The Gatherer He who repeats this Name will find the things that he lost.
88 Al-Ghani The Rich One He who repeats this Name 70 times will be contented and not convetous and will not be needy.
89 Al-Mughni The Enricher He who repeats this Name 1000 times daily for ten Fridays will becom self-sufficient.
90 Al-Mani The Preventer of Harm One should repeat this Name 20 times at bedtimes for a peaceful and happy family life.
91 Ad-Darr The Creator of The Harmful He who does not enjoy peace and tranquility in life should repeat this Name 100 times in Friday nights.He will find peace and tranquility by the grace of Allah.
92 An-Nafi The Creator of Good He who repeats this Name 41 times at the begnning of every act, will be successful in all his good acts.
93 An-Nur The Light Those who repeat this Name will have inner light.
94 Al-Hadi The Guide Ho who repeats 1100 times the sacred Names ?yahadi ihdinas-siratal-mustaqim? after the ?Isha prayer will be free from all needs.
95 Al-Badi The Originator He who is confronted by any distress or difficulty should repeat this Name 70,000 times for relief from the distress.
96 Al-Baqi The Everlasting One He who repeats this Name every Friday night 100 times all his good deeds will be accepted, by the grace of Allah.
97 Al-Warith The Inheritor of All He who repeats this Name after sunrise 100 times, will be safe from all sorrows, by the grace of Allah.
98 Ar-Rashid The Righteous Teacher He who does not have the know-how about a particular task or unable to work out plans for a certain task should repeat this Name 1000 times between Maghrib and ?Isha.
99 As-Sabur The Patient One He who is in any trouble, difficulty or sorrow and repeat this Name 3000 times, will be rescued from his difficulty. -
Do not forget that without the deeds and behavior God will never be near.
Be of one with God
-
Peace Optimal Unity,
Please give examples.
God bless
peace
Peace to you Hawk99, what exactly would you like to see in the other holy texts, similarities in message are wide and reading them in context attains a worldly spiritual maturity.Example all religions seek truth, the ultimate truth is God. Here are some texts on that
As men approach Me, so I receive them. All paths, Arjuna, lead to Me.
Hinduism. Bhagavad Gita 4.11Confucius said... "In the world there are many different roads but the destination is the same. There are a hundred deliberations but the result is one."
Confucianism. I Ching, Appended Remarks 2.5At any time, in any form and accepted name, if one is shorn of all attachment, that one is you alone. My Lord! You are one although variously appearing.
Jainism. Hemachandra, Dvatrimshika 29They have called him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and the divine fine-winged Garuda; They speak of Indra, Yama, Matrarisvan the One Being sages call by many names.
Hinduism. Rig Veda 1.164.46The Hindus and the Muslims have but one and the same God, What can a mullah or a sheikh do?
Sikhism. Adi Granth, Bhairo, p. 1158Say, "We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in what was given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to God do we submit."
Islam. Qur'an 3.84And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.
Christianity. Bible, John 10.16There is not a single place in all the corners of the world where God is absent.
Omoto Kyo. Michi-no-ShioriSome call on the Lord, "Rama," some cry, "Khuda,"
Some bow to Him as Gosain, some as Allah;
He is called the Ground of Grounds and also the Bountiful,
The Compassionate One and Gracious.
Hindus bathe in holy waters for His sake; Muslims make the pilgrimage to Mecca. The Hindus perform puja; others bow their heads in namaz.
There are those who read the Vedas and others--Christians, Jews, Muslims--who read the Semitic scriptures.
Some wear blue, some white robes,
Some call themselves Muslims, others Hindus.
Some aspire to bahishat (Muslim heaven), some to swarga (Hindu heaven).
Says Nanak, Whoever realizes the will of the Lord,
He will find out the Lord's secrets!
Sikhism. Adi Granth, Ramkali, M.5, p. 885So as you can see the essence of the message is revealed to those that seek it no matter the source of the word.
This is not to say that the Quran does not hold the intense reverence for God just that the message is shared.
Peace to you...
-
The problem is people look for an object and usually always have.
-
Peace to you Hawk99, what exactly would you like to see in the other holy texts, similarities in message are wide and reading them in context attains a worldly spiritual maturity.
Example all religions seek truth, the ultimate truth is God. Here are some texts on that
As men approach Me, so I receive them. All paths, Arjuna, lead to Me.
Hinduism. Bhagavad Gita 4.11Confucius said... "In the world there are many different roads but the destination is the same. There are a hundred deliberations but the result is one."
Confucianism. I Ching, Appended Remarks 2.5At any time, in any form and accepted name, if one is shorn of all attachment, that one is you alone. My Lord! You are one although variously appearing.
Jainism. Hemachandra, Dvatrimshika 29They have called him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and the divine fine-winged Garuda; They speak of Indra, Yama, Matrarisvan the One Being sages call by many names.
Hinduism. Rig Veda 1.164.46The Hindus and the Muslims have but one and the same God, What can a mullah or a sheikh do?
Sikhism. Adi Granth, Bhairo, p. 1158Say, "We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in what was given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to God do we submit."
Islam. Qur'an 3.84And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.
Christianity. Bible, John 10.16There is not a single place in all the corners of the world where God is absent.
Omoto Kyo. Michi-no-ShioriOf course!
Some call on the Lord, "Rama," some cry, "Khuda,"
Some bow to Him as Gosain, some as Allah;
He is called the Ground of Grounds and also the Bountiful,
The Compassionate One and Gracious.
Hindus bathe in holy waters for His sake; Muslims make the pilgrimage to Mecca. The Hindus perform puja; others bow their heads in namaz.
There are those who read the Vedas and others--Christians, Jews, Muslims--who read the Semitic scriptures.
Some wear blue, some white robes,
Some call themselves Muslims, others Hindus.
Some aspire to bahishat (Muslim heaven), some to swarga (Hindu heaven).
Says Nanak, Whoever realizes the will of the Lord,
He will find out the Lord's secrets!
Sikhism. Adi Granth, Ramkali, M.5, p. 885So as you can see the essence of the message is revealed to those that seek it no matter the source of the word.
This is not to say that the Quran does not hold the intense reverence for God just that the message is shared.
Peace to you...
Red and bold are my insertions
Peace Optimal Unity,
The Quran contains all that you quoted from other faiths, its eloquence and conciseness is unsurpassed,
I personally no longer need to read other texts as I once did, for me Quran is sufficient and has the guidance
I need to reach heaven.Those who have other faiths or paths and are good folks, I have no problem with their worship.
Muhammad Sarwar You follow your religion and I follow mine. 109/6
Maybe because God is in all of creation, meaning all of the holy books, reading only one limits how deeply you know him.
Not true, your opinion, as proven above.
God bless
peace
-
The problem is people look for an object and usually always have.
Salamun Alaikum.
Perhaps a bigger problem is that usually people view their own point of view (objective / abstract / unknown / omnipresent etc.) as the only correct view.
May Allah guide us to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salamun Alaikum.
Perhaps a bigger problem is that usually people view their own point of view (objective / abstract / unknown / omnipresent etc.) as the only correct view.
May Allah guide us to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanPeace Armanaziz,
If a Muslim holds such a viewpoint, that person does not understand revelation, here's why
And We have revealed to you, , the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded
it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do
not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed
a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation , but
to test you in what He has given you; so race to good. To Allah is your return all together,
and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.God bless
peace
-
Peace Armanaziz,
If a Muslim holds such a viewpoint, that person does not understand revelation, here's why
And We have revealed to you, , the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded
it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do
not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed
a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation , but
to test you in what He has given you; so race to good. To Allah is your return all together,
and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.Salam brother. My humble understanding of the above verse suggests me to not differ with other people (other than the followers of Qur'an)
- but to strive for good with what I have. That's what I am trying to do. Thank you for the kind reminder.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Red and bold are my insertions
Peace Optimal Unity,
The Quran contains all that you quoted from other faiths, its eloquence and conciseness is unsurpassed,
I personally no longer need to read other texts as I once did, for me Quran is sufficient and has the guidance
I need to reach heaven.Those who have other faiths or paths and are good folks, I have no problem with their worship.
Muhammad Sarwar You follow your religion and I follow mine. 109/6
Not true, your opinion, as proven above.
God bless
peace
Peace to you hawk99, thank you for the discussion...
How can you disbelieve in GOD when you were dead and He gave you life, then He puts you to death, then He brings you back to life, then to Him you ultimately return?
Who would lend GOD a loan of righteousness, to have it repaid to them multiplied manifold? GOD is the One who provides and withholds, and to Him you will be returned.
These appear to be questions, does the Qur'an not have answers? Please explain what you are talking about...
I do not dispute the eloquence, conciseness or that it is unsurpassed, my point is that it is not the only way to find God, my guidance has showed me that heaven can be achieved here in this life time and I not need to prostrate or recite anything, all I need to do is reason with God as to the meaning of his work and his creation. Once you know that you will be in heaven.
I have no problem with anybody's worship the point is that you do not need to worship to know God as I have stated above.
You have not proven anything just showed the Quran to not know all the answers. Please enlighten me I am here to learn and discuss the faith if Islam not to prove anyone wrong.
Peace to you...
-
Peace Armanaziz,
If a Muslim holds such a viewpoint, that person does not understand revelation, here's why
And We have revealed to you, , the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded
it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do
not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed
a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation , but
to test you in what He has given you; so race to good. To Allah is your return all together,
and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.God bless
peace
Peace hawk99,
Is it not written that the Torah and Gospels are also books anointed and that their meaning is to be revealed in the end of ages?
Is it not fact that the Qur'an has many scriptures from the Torah and Gospels included in it?
How can the Qur'an then be the final truth when we still do not know what the Torah and the Gospels meant in their scripture?
Why do we have to wait till we return to Allah to know what the secrets of man are, yes the ultimate truth will be revealed to you when you return to Allah but surely there is wisdom in uncovering the truth that man has hidden from us like the secrets of the Torah and Gospels, and would that not change some of the implications for Islam?
Peace to you...
-
Spiritual harmony be upon you all,
Armanaziz,
Perhaps a bigger problem is that usually people view their own point of view (objective / abstract / unknown / omnipresent etc.) as the only correct view.
Yes, but the objectified view of a Creator has many flaws, and if disregarding the flaws it also has traps of idolization of a vain object rather than what really is God.
But the biggest problem is not stating that a view is the correct one, but that people force others to think that way. To express one's view and make an elaborate attempt at showing this, is not a big problem. I am not saying that people who mistakenly regards God as an object will be doomed to Hell, but also I have seen that the behavior of those characters tend to be overly obsessed with ritualism rather than working on their behavior and deeds which may likely be more prominent a reason of going to Hell than the rituals they indulge in.
It is obviously a fact that people will be judged by whatever they have done in their lives, taken an interpretation of Qur'an, and as well as other scriptures, most of them actually, regard the behavioral part to be the most important one. And they usually tell their readers to use wisdom and to judge wisely and reflect and ponder upon how they live their lives.
Hawk99,
Muhammad Sarwar You follow your religion and I follow mine. 109/6
You know that this refers as a negative statement in the Qur'an towards people who follow a different jurisdiction, most prominently one marked with injustice and strange rules, than the one that God stands for. It is slightly arrogant to use it as a comment here for this discussion over different perspectives. And if you cannot see any good in the faiths of Buddhists or other faiths then your eyes have tunnel-vision. There are actually standpoints in which they are better than your usual Muslim, including "non-hadith" ones, and what they extract from their scripture.
With your statement or quote above you turn them away like frowning with your face, wrinkle up your nose and lift your hand and show them your palm without caring to listen.
I personally no longer need to read other texts as I once did, for me Quran is sufficient and has the guidance
I need to reach heaven.This statement is true, but one may consider that people do not even need to read it to have the guidance that they need to reach Heaven. And the same message as you study whenever you open the book or a file of Qur'an was a decree long before its advent. Getting obsessed with a piece of paper and treat it as something of an idol rather than reflect and act humbly by adhering to its message is a trap. Same goes for God if you think more of the object God rather than one your own soul's behavior and deeds then this reverence means but little.
Not true, your opinion, as proven above.
Or one may know by not reading any at all. It is the conjectural standpoints one may discover when reading and using the interpretation people fallibly have used. There are many who read it and do not understand a thing regardless.
If one joins God in spirit and does good and behaves well then they need no book.
The one and only thing that separates all these people is the conjecture they indulge in.
Optimal Unity,
You may reflect upon the traditional usage of believe for amen and disbelieve for kafar. I have not found any signs that they add up and make sense, and even when I was "zeroed" in Arabic knowledge I had suspicions. The answer is in the combination of letters in Alef - Meem - Nun (ن, hint is to reflect upon what the combination 'man' means. Hint "From" and alef as a letter in grammatical use means 'be'. However, if one knows even more they know that man is a combination of "thereof one". It puzzles me still how people can make "belief" out of this linguistic formula.
Another pure hint is the traditional use by Christians and some denominations of Islam to say "amen" after they prayer. The reason is because they say "be thereof one (i.e. we)". Amen b'Allah means to join in with God in spirit. "Kafar" means to not know what you are doing, quite much being deluded from knowing what is right despite that you may have the information, but you are too lost in your mind to reflect upon what you are doing. IS (Islamic Satans (my sarcastic rephrasing of state)) is a prime example of this kind of dangerous confusion in one's mind.
"Belief" causes part of this phenomenon usually while God is not asking for some damned belief but joining in with God and be in the light, and if one starts to be doing bad things then they are more or less helped in that direction. I suppose there is a condition of full delusion where turning away from it is nearly impossible because they are so obsessed with what they believe that they will not listen to anything other than that. This is common in sects which are based upon this phenomenon and it also includes people here who show signs of the same behavior. Possibly the curse of belief. People must believe as little as possible. I would not rely upon belief but be sure.
I have no problem with anybody's worship the point is that you do not need to worship to know God as I have stated above.
You walk alright, brother. God needs nothing from anyone or anything. The best "worship" is by acting out in life in God's spirit. Then you show you are "compatible" with God rather than an anomaly. Erase your ego and get absorbed in God and the realm. Walk in the spirit. "Walk along the beach with The Lord", as a person wrote in a poem in 1938 (approximately). If your (soul) energy fades then God "will carry you", as long as you put in your willpower.
You have not proven anything just showed the Quran to not know all the answers.
I am not a Qur'an obsessed person, but Qur'an contains what one needs to know. However so does the Gospel. But what they have together is that unless one sees the interpretation issues by men, then both of them may lead people astray. See the "salat" phenomenon and delusion in Qur'an for example or the "son of a god" ideas in the Gospels written by the witnesses of the events of Jesus.
If one has not noticed it, Qur'an teaches the kind similar of ideas which are in "pantheism" and prominent from Asian thinking of God. The "personal God" is something which Abraham, Moses, Jesus or Muhammad did not teach. And they always repeated the being of one with God and not be lost in vain practices and rituals. These objectified god practices lead to delusion and people becoming delusive.
Please enlighten me I am here to learn and discuss the faith if Islam not to prove anyone wrong.
I thought you should be here to discuss the phenomenon of "God" and not the sect Islam?
Be of one with God
-
Peace Optimal unity.
Quote
You would know him better by reciting the 99 names than reading the above.
That and the rest of your post claiming to recite this, that and the other so many times have no basis in Qoran?
Qoran is supposed to be understood , Following GOD s commandments and instructions is the aim?
Of course we should call on Him using all His various names,but making up conjectures about how many times and to help certain things is a man made wishful thinking?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Spiritual harmony be upon you all,
Optimal Unity,
You may reflect upon the traditional usage of believe for amen and disbelieve for kafar. I have not found any signs that they add up and make sense, and even when I was "zeroed" in Arabic knowledge I had suspicions. The answer is in the combination of letters in Alef - Meem - Nun (ن, hint is to reflect upon what the combination 'man' means. Hint "From" and alef as a letter in grammatical use means 'be'. However, if one knows even more they know that man is a combination of "thereof one". It puzzles me still how people can make "belief" out of this linguistic formula.
Another pure hint is the traditional use by Christians and some denominations of Islam to say "amen" after they prayer. The reason is because they say "be thereof one (i.e. we)". Amen b'Allah means to join in with God in spirit. "Kafar" means to not know what you are doing, quite much being deluded from knowing what is right despite that you may have the information, but you are too lost in your mind to reflect upon what you are doing. IS (Islamic Satans (my sarcastic rephrasing of state)) is a prime example of this kind of dangerous confusion in one's mind.
"Belief" causes part of this phenomenon usually while God is not asking for some damned belief but joining in with God and be in the light, and if one starts to be doing bad things then they are more or less helped in that direction. I suppose there is a condition of full delusion where turning away from it is nearly impossible because they are so obsessed with what they believe that they will not listen to anything other than that. This is common in sects which are based upon this phenomenon and it also includes people here who show signs of the same behavior. Possibly the curse of belief. People must believe as little as possible. I would not rely upon belief but be sure.
Thank you for your discussion?Indeed, language is a powerful force and meaning and interpretation is truly at the mercy of the interpreter, I always maintain interpretation is a skill, a skill I have acquired in the English language sadly I do not speak Arabic and have not studied the nuances of its meanings.
What you say though in relation to saying Amen b?Allah is beautiful and feels right, though from an English point of view I understood Amen after the prayer meant a call to God se he could hear it and to validate it.
I fear I might have used the word in error, as belief surely can dangerous?
I have no problem with anybody's worship the point is that you do not need to worship to know God as I have stated above.
You walk alright, brother. God needs nothing from anyone or anything. The best "worship" is by acting out in life in God's spirit. Then you show you are "compatible" with God rather than an anomaly. Erase your ego and get absorbed in God and the realm. Walk in the spirit. "Walk along the beach with The Lord", as a person wrote in a poem in 1938 (approximately). If your (soul) energy fades then God "will carry you", as long as you put in your willpower.
Thank you for the recognition, I hope to share more of my travels with God.You have not proven anything just showed the Quran to not know all the answers.
I am not a Qur'an obsessed person, but Qur'an contains what one needs to know. However so does the Gospel. But what they have together is that unless one sees the interpretation issues by men, then both of them may lead people astray. See the "salat" phenomenon and delusion in Qur'an for example or the "son of a god" ideas in the Gospels written by the witnesses of the events of Jesus.
If one has not noticed it, Qur'an teaches the kind similar of ideas which are in "pantheism" and prominent from Asian thinking of God. The "personal God" is something which Abraham, Moses, Jesus or Muhammad did not teach. And they always repeated the being of one with God and not be lost in vain practices and rituals. These objectified god practices lead to delusion and people becoming delusive.
Thank you for not being obsessed by the Qu?ran and please you know I can not lead anyone astray that already has not strayed, I do feel compelled to find out and reason as to why there is an obsession with it. To the point where we see reason to kill if one should try to point that it not quite perfect.Even perfection knows it is not perfect only Allah is perfect everything and everyone is never perfect.
Did you know the Gospels and the Torah were words of allegory, double meaning and held secrets on astrology and meditation?
The Qur?an included these stories like Adam and Eve as an example this story is not to be taken literally as many Christians and Muslims do, its inclusion in the Qur?an makes it imperfect in my opinion, and we need to look for ways to bring humanity together insisting on its perfection keeps us divided.
Please enlighten me I am here to learn and discuss the faith if Islam not to prove anyone wrong.
I thought you should be here to discuss the phenomenon of "God" and not the sect Islam?
Be of one with God
Indeed I am here to discuss God, but I am a little afraid of the fanatical Islam and it is a focal point for me to find how I can reason with it.May Allah guide you?
-
Peace Optimal unity.
Quote
You would know him better by reciting the 99 names than reading the above.
That and the rest of your post claiming to recite this, that and the other so many times have no basis in Qoran?
Qoran is supposed to be understood , Following GOD s commandments and instructions is the aim?
Of course we should call on Him using all His various names,but making up conjectures about how many times and to help certain things is a man made wishful thinking?
GOD bless you.
Peace.Peace to you good logic
I did wonder about the reference to reciting times, wishful thinking indeed, I will be more discerning, it was a quick grab of the internet.
My inference was that his names could help you to get to know your self by examining their virtues and how you feel about them, then you would after self examination know him better on a personal level.
I hope that makes sense...
God bless you...
-
Spiritual harmony upon you, Optimal Unity
How can the Qur'an then be the final truth when we still do not know what the Torah and the Gospels meant in their scripture?
I know what they mean, Torah means the instruction, revealed to the Children of Israel while the Gospel was an elaboration on the same teaching.
Those who read Qur'an follow the same decree as the one that was revealed in "Torah". Take this example as a hint that Torah contains the same decree
543 And how can they make you their judge when they have the Torah, in which there is the judgment of God; then they turn away after that. Those are not with (which) believers being thereof one.
Why do we have to wait till we return to Allah to know what the secrets of man are, yes the ultimate truth will be revealed to you when you return to Allah but surely there is wisdom in uncovering the truth that man has hidden from us like the secrets of the Torah and Gospels, and would that not change some of the implications for Islam?
If one wants to know the truth they have to search deeper than simply accepting interpretations by men blindly. There are more secrets about the Aramaic root languages and letters than people care to think. And that 'AMEN' and 'MAN' looks nearly the same also mean they have similar meaning. It has also led me to realize that belief does not exist except in the imagination of men. It is all about being one with God, just as some people argue about "being one with nature".
Is it not written that the Torah and Gospels are also books anointed and that their meaning is to be revealed in the end of ages?
Yes, and particularly the Gospel(s) are quite accurately portraying the events of Jesus albeit the various terms are a disaster in interpretation such as father and son. But one should not swear that what you read translated from the original language is accurate. The same goes for what people read of Qur'an...
But if one finds a middle-way, remaining sane and sticking to sensible things and living a life of good behavior and deeds they have nothing to fear because they were one with God and the realm, even if there were things they were not able to interpret accurately. But one should either not try to reject something that someone says because it is different from what they are used to, if it makes sense.
'Torat' is not the entire part of what is usually called "Old Testament" by Christians, but only a small fraction of it where it teaches the common things of; do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not be jealous, do not serve idols (differentiating jurisdiction) but 'be that it is' (Allah), do not make of God any image in either Heaven or Earth (God is no object), do not conjecture or as it says; no vain words, do not lie (false testimony and falsehood overall) and "keep a sabbath" (which I would refer to having a time devoted to service of God which "Abramimic" sects already have, i.e. Fifth, Sixth or Seventh day of the week respectively except that it is purely ritual), and it also says "Honor/respect your mother and father". Apart from that "list" there are some comprehensive teachings of equity in punishment such as "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", i.e. some teaching on behavior. There is much emphasis on wisdom and justice, and one can quite easily see that "behavior and deeds" is of the essence and to wander in the spirit of God.
Be of one with God
-
Spiritual harmony upon you, Optimal Unity
Indeed I am here to discuss God, but I am a little afraid of the fanatical Islam and it is a focal point for me to find how I can reason with it.
Well, me too. In fact since I know a thing or two I would likely not be considered Muslim or within the sect of Islam by people, despite that I actually adhere to Qur'an albeit with a different "eye". I know that the rituals allegedly proclaimed are bogus and just a misrepresentation of the Arabic text.
Thank you for not being obsessed by the Qu?ran and please you know I can not lead anyone astray that already has not strayed, I do feel compelled to find out and reason as to why there is an obsession with it. To the point where we see reason to kill if one should try to point that it not quite perfect.
Same here. No one needs to follow me, and I will force no one, but it may be wise for people to reflect upon what I am saying (writing). However; if I see someone lift a hand against a brother I will stand between. And if they do anything against the decree of God I will also react accordingly. And the decree is quite common sense actually, while the adhered conjecture is not.
Did you know the Gospels and the Torah were words of allegory, double meaning and held secrets on astrology and meditation?
Well yes, they are abstract and refer to a teaching of a way on how to be. Gospel/Injeel is enlightenment upon the same philosophical approach.
Even perfection knows it is not perfect only Allah is perfect everything and everyone is never perfect.
Yes. The One which is everything in existence is perfect and which cannot be destroyed but only will change into another form if attempted upon. But the person who stands in the light can be like God, but not like the ego because it should be destroyed and then one will be perfect in God.
The Qur?an included these stories like Adam and Eve as an example this story is not to be taken literally as many Christians and Muslims do, its inclusion in the Qur?an makes it imperfect in my opinion, and we need to look for ways to bring humanity together insisting on its perfection keeps us divided.
My suspicion is that the language used therein, Aramaic and Arabic I think, is not entirely properly interpreted. And also there is likely little likeliness with the physical realm that we live in now (illusion).
sadly I do not speak Arabic and have not studied the nuances of its meanings.
I think someone has to do it on a very deep level, but not everyone. Someone has to expose the lies and falsehood. But Qur'an is hardly a necessity since the decree of God can be known without it. And you know it all comes down to behavior and deeds.
What you say though in relation to saying Amen b?Allah is beautiful and feels right, though from an English point of view I understood Amen after the prayer meant a call to God se he could hear it and to validate it.
From an English point of you can probably paraphrase it in English as "May we be like thereof", depending on which words you use with amen in Arabic. It is a common theory that the 'amen' after prayer is taken as "may it be so", which is actually not so wrong except that amen refers to oneself or the group which uttered the words that they become like they prayed. Having confidence and will to execute that which you prayed about is the key into this. You must have faith in what you say, but it does not refer to the invented phenomenon of "belief". God does not want people who guess or think it may be in one way but confidence that the words uttered may be true. Either you know that God exists or you are deluded into thinking that may not be the case, but there is no belief or merely thinking/guessing.
I would like to continue, but need to go grocery shopping with my wife and son. But I pray thee that I am not "out bicycling" (Swedish saying for being lost).
Be of one with God
-
How can you disbelieve in GOD when you were dead and He gave you life, then He puts you to death, then He brings you back to life, then to Him you ultimately return?
Who would lend GOD a loan of righteousness, to have it repaid to them multiplied manifold? GOD is the One who provides and withholds, and to Him you will be returned.
These appear to be questions, does the Qur'an not have answers? Please explain what you are talking about...
I have no problem with anybody's worship the point is that you do not need to worship to know God as I have stated above.
Peace Optimal Unity,
) The Quran has a unique literary style, some ayats are worded to cause the reader to reflect.
This is from you
what exactly would you like to see in the other holy texts, similarities in message are wide and reading them in context attains a worldly spiritual maturity.
Example all religions seek truth, the ultimate truth is God. Here are some texts on that
As men approach Me, so I receive them. All paths, Arjuna, lead to Me.
Hinduism. Bhagavad Gita 4.11Confucius said... "In the world there are many different roads but the destination is the same. There are a hundred deliberations but the result is one."
Confucianism. I Ching, Appended Remarks 2.5At any time, in any form and accepted name, if one is shorn of all attachment, that one is you alone. My Lord! You are one although variously appearing.
Jainism. Hemachandra, Dvatrimshika 29They have called him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and the divine fine-winged Garuda; They speak of Indra, Yama, Matrarisvan the One Being sages call by many names.
Hinduism. Rig Veda 1.164.46The Hindus and the Muslims have but one and the same God, What can a mullah or a sheikh do?
Sikhism. Adi Granth, Bhairo, p. 1158First, the bold underline in red is your opinion, just reading will not necessarily make a person as you stated,
"attain a worldly spiritual maturity."Secondly, the ayats quoted reveal that Muslims can arrive at those same conclusions with the Quran alone!
Lastly, I do not need to see anything in the other holy texts, I accept diversity and freedom.
I have no problem with anybody's worship the point is that you do not need to worship to know God as I have stated above.
You do not have to worship, that is your choice, but we Muslims worship for our own benefit.
You have not proven anything just showed the Quran to not know all the answers. Please enlighten me I am
here to learn and discuss the faith if Islam not to prove anyone wrong.Please, your misunderstanding of the Quran is not my doing, don't use me as the last word, you have
your own journey.God bless
peace
-
Spiritual harmony upon you,
The Quran has a unique literary style, some ayats are worded to cause the reader to reflect.
I would say that the majority of what you find written therein is worded in such a way.
Be of one with God
-
Spiritual harmony upon you, Man of Faith
Spiritual harmony upon you, Optimal Unity
How can the Qur'an then be the final truth when we still do not know what the Torah and the Gospels meant in their scripture?
I know what they mean, Torah means the instruction, revealed to the Children of Israel while the Gospel was an elaboration on the same teaching.Those who read Qur'an follow the same decree as the one that was revealed in "Torah". Take this example as a hint that Torah contains the same decree
543 And how can they make you their judge when they have the Torah, in which there is the judgment of God; then they turn away after that. Those are not with (which) believers being thereof one.
This is the reason I state that the Qur?an and Islam needs to look again. What you are reading in the Torah is the instruction but instruction on what? It suits Islam to say it is an instruction on worshiping and following God and his commandments, this is true but it is only part true.
Do you know of Kabbalah and the mysticism around the Jewish people and their relationship to creation from God.Why do we have to wait till we return to Allah to know what the secrets of man are, yes the ultimate truth will be revealed to you when you return to Allah but surely there is wisdom in uncovering the truth that man has hidden from us like the secrets of the Torah and Gospels, and would that not change some of the implications for Islam?
If one wants to know the truth they have to search deeper than simply accepting interpretations by men blindly. There are more secrets about the Aramaic root languages and letters than people care to think. And that 'AMEN' and 'MAN' looks nearly the same also mean they have similar meaning. It has also led me to realize that belief does not exist except in the imagination of men. It is all about being one with God, just as some people argue about "being one with nature".
So you accept there are secrets in the Aramic languages, so too is there n every language. You are correct be one with God is correct but you are wrong to say being one in nature is somehow wrong as nature is the creation of God and if you are not one with his creation you can not be one with the creator.Is it not written that the Torah and Gospels are also books anointed and that their meaning is to be revealed in the end of ages?
Yes, and particularly the Gospel(s) are quite accurately portraying the events of Jesus albeit the various terms are a disaster in interpretation such as father and son. But one should not swear that what you read translated from the original language is accurate. The same goes for what people read of Qur'an...
But if one finds a middle-way, remaining sane and sticking to sensible things and living a life of good behavior and deeds they have nothing to fear because they were one with God and the realm, even if there were things they were not able to interpret accurately. But one should either not try to reject something that someone says because it is different from what they are used to, if it makes sense.
It does and I thank you for the vigilant reminder to my humbleness in his guidance of you.'Torat' is not the entire part of what is usually called "Old Testament" by Christians, but only a small fraction of it where it teaches the common things of; do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not be jealous, do not serve idols (differentiating jurisdiction) but 'be that it is' (Allah), do not make of God any image in either Heaven or Earth (God is no object), do not conjecture or as it says; no vain words, do not lie (false testimony and falsehood overall) and "keep a sabbath" (which I would refer to having a time devoted to service of God which "Abramimic" sects already have, i.e. Fifth, Sixth or Seventh day of the week respectively except that it is purely ritual), and it also says "Honor/respect your mother and father". Apart from that "list" there are some comprehensive teachings of equity in punishment such as "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", i.e. some teaching on behavior. There is much emphasis on wisdom and justice, and one can quite easily see that "behavior and deeds" is of the essence and to wander in the spirit of God.
Be of one with God
As I mentioned yes the above summary is what Islam sees as the instruction of what is right and wrong before Allah. However what I will be pushing to reveal is that the Jews have written other meanings in their texts to subvert Allah?s instruction, a secret they have kept even from the Christians but not the true rulers of the world, who now side with them as the language has cast a spell over them, think of it as their Go(d)spells.Indeed I am here to discuss God, but I am a little afraid of the fanatical Islam and it is a focal point for me to find how I can reason with it.
Well, me too. In fact since I know a thing or two I would likely not be considered Muslim or within the sect of Islam by people, despite that I actually adhere to Qur'an albeit with a different "eye". I know that the rituals allegedly proclaimed are bogus and just a misrepresentation of the Arabic text.
May Allah guide you?.Thank you for not being obsessed by the Qu?ran and please you know I can not lead anyone astray that already has not strayed, I do feel compelled to find out and reason as to why there is an obsession with it. To the point where we see reason to kill if one should try to point that it not quite perfect.
Same here. No one needs to follow me, and I will force no one, but it may be wise for people to reflect upon what I am saying (writing). However; if I see someone lift a hand against a brother I will stand between. And if they do anything against the decree of God I will also react accordingly. And the decree is quite common sense actually, while the adhered conjecture is not.
Then we are on the same page and speak (write) with equal trust in our guidance, I look forward in discussing the important points with you.Did you know the Gospels and the Torah were words of allegory, double meaning and held secrets on astrology and meditation?
Well yes, they are abstract and refer to a teaching of a way on how to be. Gospel/Injeel is enlightenment upon the same philosophical approach. So it doesn?t bother you when the Christians are told of the miracle of the two fish feeding thousands, it has nothing to do with a miracle but in fact it is a point to the Pisces constellation/age. Here are millions of Christians believing Jesus can perform miracles when his just a man with God.
Even perfection knows it is not perfect only Allah is perfect everything and everyone is never perfect.
Yes. The One which is everything in existence is perfect and which cannot be destroyed but only will change into another form if attempted upon. But the person who stands in the light can be like God, but not like the ego because it should be destroyed and then one will be perfect in God.
Yes, but how do we perfect everyone to be with God than to change the perfect of perfections.The Qur?an included these stories like Adam and Eve as an example this story is not to be taken literally as many Christians and Muslims do, its inclusion in the Qur?an makes it imperfect in my opinion, and we need to look for ways to bring humanity together insisting on its perfection keeps us divided.
My suspicion is that the language used therein, Aramaic and Arabic I think, is not entirely properly interpreted. And also there is likely little likeliness with the physical realm that we live in now (illusion). Correct so not perfect in any respect, in fact deceitful.sadly I do not speak Arabic and have not studied the nuances of its meanings.
I think someone has to do it on a very deep level, but not everyone. Someone has to expose the lies and falsehood. But Qur'an is hardly a necessity since the decree of God can be known without it. And you know it all comes down to behavior and deeds. Yes thank you, I have received new guidance and might be entertaining the desire to be that someone in the wrong order, but I am glad I am here it is still good to know more especially by those that are motivated by the love of Allah.What you say though in relation to saying Amen b?Allah is beautiful and feels right, though from an English point of view I understood Amen after the prayer meant a call to God se he could hear it and to validate it.
From an English point of you can probably paraphrase it in English as "May we be like thereof", depending on which words you use with amen in Arabic. It is a common theory that the 'amen' after prayer is taken as "may it be so", which is actually not so wrong except that amen refers to oneself or the group which uttered the words that they become like they prayed. Having confidence and will to execute that which you prayed about is the key into this. You must have faith in what you say, but it does not refer to the invented phenomenon of "belief". God does not want people who guess or think it may be in one way but confidence that the words uttered may be true. Either you know that God exists or you are deluded into thinking that may not be the case, but there is no belief or merely thinking/guessing.
I would like to continue, but need to go grocery shopping with my wife and son. But I pray thee that I am not "out bicycling" (Swedish saying for being lost).
Be of one with God
So it is can be said before or after depending on your conviction in God, but only God knows what the motivation of your conviction is?Hope your outing was a serene one.
Looking forward to your response?
One with God to you?