Would my fellow Muslims dare answer these rational questions?
-
Salaam Bros n Sisters,
Its been a long time since I posted. As a rational monotheist Muslim, I am content that I follow a religion that is most logical and superior to all other beliefs on Earth. But then there are yet questions about Islam that bother me. These are questions that pop-up when discussing religion with people of other religions. I would be grateful if all of you here could provide your own views and responses.
Shukran.
Here are a few queries....
- We usually discuss that the Holy Quran is very scientific, logical and one will not find any nonsense within it. But then we also have verses that discuss about King Solomon's time when he 'spoke' to the hoopoe bird and heard the ant; when 'jinns' did all kinds of magical stuff in daily life. Verses talk about the bad effects of black-magic, the evil-eye etc. all of which are truly unscientific. Hindus are quick to point out such verses to show that their outlandish mythologies of demons and gods on earth are comparatively the same in this regard. On what basis can one invite a rational polytheist/ disbeliever/ pagan/ athiest to 'believe' Islam when we have to ask him to accept our unbelievable stories, so as to leave behind his own illogical beliefs?
Salaam brother,
You quoted on the end of your post verse 22, I think that is the answer to your question.
Do you think you are from "al-muttaqeen"? If yes, then use the book as al-muttaqeen use it.
If no, then try to become one
Seriously this is the only way to acces the treasures of the book.
What you descibe above are explanations from people who are not from al-muttaqeen, they only guess and take the wrong explanation.- If Islam is the true word of God, why is there so much chaos, suffering and hatred in the Muslim world? If we explain that this is because average Muslims do not follow the real word of God from the Quran, then the Christian asks, why then did God reveal the Quran, if people ultimately did not follow it? What is the utility of the revelation when it is not used for society's benefits? Why is it that the world's most peaceful, techonologically advanced and democratic countries that give human freedoms are all nations that DO NOT follow the message of Islam? For whose benefit was the "final message" of the Quran revealed? For just a few individuals here and there who call themselves monotheists? What is the need for the message, when mankind is always attaining its ethical and moral goals through other sources?
We say the Bible is not truly the word of God, but contains conflicting messages. How is it that the adherents of the Bible, even today are the most blessed of all people,the most charitable and the most powerful? They have established schools, hospitals and orphanages across the world, with countless priests and nuns having dedicated their lives for the welfare of the needy. How many Muslims organisations are doing half of this work?
RED In a "Muslim" world there is no hatred, suffering and chaos.
I hope you understand what I am trying to say.- Something as basic as marriage..if it is allowed by God to have up to 4 wives for men, (assuming that one can be just and fair to each wife) why is it that the Prophet of Islam had upto 9 wives at the same time? Isn't the very messenger, breaking the message he preached? Isn't that hypocrisy?
See my answer to the first part.
RED We have to be very very veeeeery sure before we say something in the name of Allah.
Do you really think Allah allows this kind of immorality?
Allah forbids EVERY immorality, visible or hidden. It is really important to understand this.
People have written libraries to justify polygamy but in the end it is still immorality, there is no justification for immorality.43 is not about polygamy nope
Any answers to these queries would really make life a lot easier.. Thank you so much for your time!
Peace.Sorry if my answers sound like dictating. Anyway I hope my answers will help you a bit.
http//queriesonislam.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/alquran-4-1-1_wordpress.gif?w=620&h=465
thank you
Salaam,
Bender -
Salaam brother,
You quoted on the end of your post verse 22, I think that is the answer to your question.
Do you think you are from "al-muttaqeen"? If yes, then use the book as al-muttaqeen use it.
If no, then try to become one
Seriously this is the only way to acces the treasures of the book.
What you descibe above are explanations from people who are not from al-muttaqeen, they only guess and take the wrong explanation.RED In a "Muslim" world there is no hatred, suffering and chaos.
I hope you understand what I am trying to say.See my answer to the first part.
RED We have to be very very veeeeery sure before we say something in the name of Allah.
Do you really think Allah allows this kind of immorality?
Allah forbids EVERY immorality, visible or hidden. It is really important to understand this.
People have written libraries to justify polygamy but in the end it is still immorality, there is no justification for immorality.43 is not about polygamy nope
Sorry if my answers sound like dictating. Anyway I hope my answers will help you a bit.
thank youSalaam,
BenderSalaam Bender,
Thanks for the reply. Good thoughts. But just to point out to you a simple fact... just as you consider yourself as being 'al-muttaqeen' by blindly following the Quran, there are billions of other people blindly following their own scriptures (filled with half-truths and whole lies)... On what basis does one ascertain which book is the truth? Why would you reject the Old Testament and not the Quran? What is your criteria? The simple rule would be to follow the scripture that does not have any illogical nonsensical ideas in it and at the same time guides the follower towards the true Creator of the Universe. Any scripture that accepts evil or idolization of helpless human beings or teaches materialism or irrational thoughts would not fit the criteria.As far as I am concerned, there is no historical book that reveals the truth better than the Quran. But there are still some verses that need clarification. Instead of just giving up the realities of the universe and not questioning, I would be at peace if these points were clearer.
Thank you for your time. Peace.
http//th04.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2013/103/b/2/mortimer_adler_on_blind_faith_by_hanciong-d61jw6l.png
-
The big flood must have changed and affected so much on the earth that it causes things to change including perhaps the average life span of the people.
In any case, if your criteria to believe in Quran is based only on your logic and confirmation of every verse as per your intelligence level, there where is the Faith? the faith is to believe in every word of Quran and then try to understand what you can and what you can not, pray to Lord to grant you wisdom to understand it one day.
This is the belief in unseen i guess... that I believe in quran is from my Lord and my Lord never lies.Cheers
http//3.bp.blogspot.com/-RFcjF4eNgXI/USoJ3_tmTqI/AAAAAAAAGgY/hKdZ_4XTAps/s320/pistrue.jpg
Salaam Fusion,
Thank you for the reply. You seriously believe the Old Testament narration of the great flood, that Noah carried a pair of all types creatures that existed--millions upon the millions of different creatures that we find on Earth? No wonder the atheists are enjoying themselves making fun of religious people! Our beliefs make no sense then.The Quran does not explain such fiction but only teaches that the people of Noah were destroyed by the flood for their sins. Thus it makes sense to believe that the flood was limited to the area of the red sea and did not affect the rest of the globe. The animals that Noah carried on his boat were his own sheep so as to stay alive during the time of the flood. If all of mankind had died during the flood, naturally we wouldn't see Chinese, Africans, Caucasians and Asians all so different from one another evolving over night.
http//31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma1tdf3fud1r7qpeho1_500.jpg
With regards to the criteria to believe in the Quran, yes, I would absolutely wish to see rationality in the book of God because He is the One who created this universe based on logical laws of physics and science that He designed. Anything that we claim as a 'miracle' is just what has not yet been analyzed and explained by someone. Thus man walking on the moon might sound like a miracle until somebody explains the background procedure that went with it.
The only way an average human being can differentiate between falsehood and the truth, between all the millions of gods of various religions that existed over millennia is by seeking logical facts. I hope you agree.
Peace.
http//2.bp.blogspot.com/-eg2JncNVPNg/Ugk-DEH9GXI/AAAAAAAAG_g/-FKyIU-sm3w/s1600/7_god-said-it.jpg
http//qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1cb848cb14548936b83b656663a8f0dc?convert_to_webp=true
http//1.bp.blogspot.com/-gj7BS-c-c54/UACpr4atlWI/AAAAAAAAAF0/RWRts3lcXXA/s320/543389_365772376808651_64663271_n.jpg
-
Peace harris.
While I agree with you about checking, searching,Scientifically investigating,making sense to what we read,see and hear...etc
I disagree that we will be able to solve everything? Why?
Simply because we are given a small part of the "knowledge"! We are restricted to this dimension and the knowledge given within its parameters. The universe is only part of what the Creator has . There is the "unseen"?
How can we ever understand beyond our field of vision,hearing and brain?
While we can explain some things to do with our universe/existence/life..How are we ever able to explain what we cannot even perceive?
Hence GOD s message to us!!!!!
Do you believe in GOD?
Do you believe He sent a message?
Why do you believe Qoran?Is it from GOD?
How do you differentiate between GOD s word from men s word?
Do you believe that" others" understand Qoran better than you? Why?
Do you believe learning/understanding is a gradual process?
Do you believe that in the future we may change how we understand and what we understand now?The reason I am asking you these questions is because Qoran gives us our answers.
Qoran also ask us to check everything {1736}.
Qoran also tells us there are certain things we will not be able to answer!!!! To believe GOD and His words .( If you believe>>>However Qoran encourages us to seek knowledge. To try and check/ prove all things for ourselves so that we do not follow like sheep?
Of course we must keep searching and making sense of what is being said in Qoran and everything else,but we must prioritise. Not waste our time .
Sometimes our answer can be a simple "I do not know the answer at the moment" and move on,unless we have proof that what is being said is a lie/wrong...
If we are honest and open ,we can build our knowledge and seek the true knowledgeable Creator to try and understand His words and attain certainty about our beliefs even the ones we cannot explain in this life?!!.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Many thanks to Good logic for explaining it so well to Harris. What I meant by logical understanding is that how can one define the logical explanation as it is subjective to the ability of the person. We define logic with respect to the things we know from our experience and in some case "Knowledge" which is GOD given wisdom to some of the people who HE wishes to.
For example when man landed on moon, it would have been against logic to many people at the time who are from different part of the world to believe it, yet it does not mean that those people were illogical?The irony is that every one of us relate to Quran and complete and pass his/her own judgement and offer detailed explanation.
What I believe is with my limited capability of the power to reason (based on my experience and knowledge-- which is a continuous process, hence am here to learn and only by discussing things in here would correct/increase my knowledge).1140 So, when Our command came and the chamber erupted. We said ?Carry in it a pair from each kind, and your family; except those against whom the word has been issued; and whoever has believed.? But those who believed with him were few.
So it was not only sheeps but more likely all of the domestic animals that were present in that region in order for Noah and the others to start a new life and survive.
In short, at the end of the day you and I are humans and we are bound to make errors or correct our understanding.. with time and sharing knowledge. I am still learning and long way and I am still puzzled with the question of age and years for Noah.
Cheers -
I was just reading Sura 29 and found this verse that clearly states the age of Noah...
We sent Noah to his people, and he stayed with them one thousand years, less fifty.
so difficult to use logic here.. does everyone actually accept the age of Noah as 950 years?
This was already answered. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604210.msg303987#msg303987
-
Salaam Bender,
Thanks for the reply. Good thoughts. But just to point out to you a simple fact... just as you consider yourself as being 'al-muttaqeen' by blindly following the Quran , there are billions of other people blindly following their own scriptures (filled with half-truths and whole lies)... On what basis does one ascertain which book is the truth?Salaam Harris,
Red I think you misunderstood. An 'al-muttaqeen' does not follow blindly The Quran. He/she takes the Quran as a guidance not the guidance. When there are things written in the book that goes against his/her judgement of good and bad he/she never forgets the direct instructions from Allah.
Let me give you an example. If I followed blindly The Quran I would have cut off my both hands and every other stealing hand.
BUT I know (This means I have 100% certainty) that this command is not from Allah. This is what "al muttaqeen" means in my dictionary.
There are 4 possibilities now.
1 The Quran is not from Allah.
2 The Quran is from Allah, but I do not understand The Quran
3 The Quran is from Allah but shaytaan (devil) made me think that cutting off hands is not from Allah
4 I am crazy
I have reached a stadium now where I am certain that The Quran is revealed with permission of Allah. If there is something in The Quran that goes against my judgement of good and evil then I know that my understanding of The Quran is not from Allah but from others.Why would you reject the Old Testament and not the Quran? What is your criteria?
My first criteria is that a book has to claim that it is from The One who created every existing thing.
As far as I know The Old testament does not claim this anywhere. And as far as I know there is no other scripture that has this claim.
If there is a scripture which claims the same then we can discuss my other criteria.
The Quran did not only meet my first criteria but also all my other criteria.The simple rule would be to follow the scripture that does not have any illogical nonsensical ideas in it and at the same time guides the follower towards the true Creator of the Universe. Any scripture that accepts evil or idolization of helpless human beings or teaches materialism or irrational thoughts would not fit the criteria.
Totally agreed, this is one of my other criteria.
If there is a scripture made by humans who forbids evil and promotes good then follow it, those scriptures are from humans but those humans where certainly inspired by Allah.As far as I am concerned, there is no historical book that reveals the truth better than the Quran. But there are still some verses that need clarification. Instead of just giving up the realities of the universe and not questioning, I would be at peace if these points were clearer.
Red totally agreed.
Blue I don't think there exist(ed) a human being who understand everything from The Quran.
Just an example 951
Yusuf Ali translation By the Fig and the Olive,
Take any translation you like, but is there anyone who can explain to me what kind of information this is for me?
Ok lets suppose it's talking about the fig and the olive.
Great information but I still have 0% idea what it is talking about and I guess no one knows what it means except Allah.
I have accepted these kind of verses as part of The Book. Nowadays, I try to take advantage from them from a technical point of view instead of forcing an explanation by guessing.
Green You should never give up realities, realities are from Allah.
I am not sure what verses you are talking about.
I am not sure if you can read the arabic characters, if not then I strongly advice you to learn them if you want for yourself to explore The Book.
Take from the translations of The Quran only the good things, the bad things are 100% certain mistranslations.Thank you for your time. Peace.
http//th04.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2013/103/b/2/mortimer_adler_on_blind_faith_by_hanciong-d61jw6l.png
You too, peace
Bender -
Thank you for the thoughts..
But the question still lies unanswered... how could Noah have lived for 950 years.. it's almost as if he were immortal, living for a millennium.
I wonder if "thousand minus fifty" can be deduced to mean something else.... confused
-
I would rather die tomorrow than live for 950 years in this world with this beast body. I do not envy Noah if he lived for so long in a flesh state.
Be faithful to "God"
-
Peace harris.
Here is the verse in Arabic
2914
We sent Noah to his people, and he stayed with them one thousand "Sanatan", less fifty "Aaman".* Subsequently, they incurred the flood because of their transgressions.How long did Noah live?
One thousand "sanatan" less fifty "Aaman".
Is this 950 years? Is "Sanatan" and "Aaman" the same period?
Why did GOD choose to use the two different words?
We have also seen
-
Sorry continued...
God uses "day" and "Thousand years " to mean a period of time. How long?...
Is the verse giving the age of Noah? Does the count include before he was sent to his people or just after?
GOD bless you.
Peace -
I would rather die tomorrow than live for 950 years in this world with this beast body. I do not envy Noah if he lived for so long in a flesh state.
Be faithful to "God"
Hi buddy, I would love to life 950 years or even lot more -) reasons are different though.
So my question is if one prays to the Lord with such Dua, is it right to ask in the sense of possibility?cheers
-
Thank you for the thoughts..
But the question still lies unanswered... how could Noah have lived for 950 years.. it's almost as if he were immortal, living for a millennium.
I wonder if "thousand minus fifty" can be deduced to mean something else.... confused
There is no verse which says Noah lived 950 years
-
Hello all,
This is my first post here. Introducing myself, I am a "Christian Tauhid", and interested in your forum. A quick response re the discussion concerning Noah's age...... I believe an interpretation of the Qur'an needs to be done in unity with all the Holy Books. Those passing information down for thousands of years believed that Noah was nearly 1000 years old. For a Muslim to say that the Qur'an intended something totally different is going to cause all sorts of problems. You can't create the message of the Qur'an in opposition to previous revelation.
Just another point of clarification on this thread, Paul was definitely NOT a Trinitarian. That theology evolved over centuries long after the life of Paul.
Wasalam
Zack -
Hello all,
This is my first post here. Introducing myself, I am a "Christian Tauhid", and interested in your forum. A quick response re the discussion concerning Noah's age...... I believe an interpretation of the Qur'an needs to be done in unity with all the Holy Books. Those passing information down for thousands of years believed that Noah was nearly 1000 years old. For a Muslim to say that the Qur'an intended something totally different is going to cause all sorts of problems. You can't create the message of the Qur'an in opposition to previous revelation.
Just another point of clarification on this thread, Paul was definitely NOT a Trinitarian. That theology evolved over centuries long after the life of Paul.
Wasalam
ZackHi Zack,
Welcome to the forum welcome Glad to see you here. Im also reading the bible, but Im muslim. -
Hello all,
This is my first post here. Introducing myself, I am a "Christian Tauhid", and interested in your forum. A quick response re the discussion concerning Noah's age...... I believe an interpretation of the Qur'an needs to be done in unity with all the Holy Books. Those passing information down for thousands of years believed that Noah was nearly 1000 years old. For a Muslim to say that the Qur'an intended something totally different is going to cause all sorts of problems. You can't create the message of the Qur'an in opposition to previous revelation.
Just another point of clarification on this thread, Paul was definitely NOT a Trinitarian. That theology evolved over centuries long after the life of Paul.
Wasalam
ZackSalaam Zack
Welcome to the forum. Good to hear your views. On the contrary, while Paul may not have directly subscribed to a trinitarian god, the way he proclaimed worship left no other choice for the believers. Paul, writing to believers, encouraged them to worship in a Trinity in 2 Corinthians 1314
?The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen.?Isn't this the basis of today's idol worship ?
http//www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-godhood.gif
-
Good point Hawk.. Never thought about it... Certainly the peace and development of the modern world is much safer today with our Muslim brothers fighting each other, instead of focusing all their hatred and energies on the rest of the world...
But on the other hand, with ignorance comes the devil... with knowledge- our people might still be leading the world forward as we did during the dark ages. Only wisdom and understanding can remove people's hatred for each other... when mass-delusion is the order of the day, what hope have we?
True, agreed
Peace brother harris,
Call me a pessimist, but I am not sure that pride, arrogance, hatred and other negatives that constitute the devils
foothold on many societies are not so easily removed. To bring wisdom and understanding to a mass deluded, religious,
society would prove to be a herculean task. Why? Because the benefactors of such environments are not going to
stand idly by and permit the types of reforms that would be needed to bring their masses to the truth.leveraging religion/ tradition as an excuse for their barbaric behavior.
The same pattern can be found elsewhere in the world, the european neo-nazis or american rednecks is another good example.
Proud + Religion/Tradition + Ignorant => Violent and barbaric behavior.Peace Jafar,
Leveraging religion/tradition is a very good point. Religion and tradition have enormous influence
on its adherents, and is a topic worth exploring in detail.peace
