No Elephants in the Quran
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Salams to all.
Here, I will present an alternate understanding of the Arabic term (translit "feel", which appears in the opening passage of Surah 105, and is traditionally translated as "elephant".
The thing that struck me was the word that comes directly before it .
In the FM translation, it is rendered as "people of".
And yet, when we look elsewhere, we find that the same word is given the meaning "dwellers of".
So I've decided to gather many passages of the Quran which feature this word - - and check the FM translation and the context of its usage.
Here goes
{And those who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, they are the dwellers of the Fire, in it they will abide}...
{And those who reject and deny Our revelations, they are the dwellers of Hell}...
{As for those who reject Our revelations, and become arrogant towards them; then these are the dwellers of the Fire, in it they will abide}...
{Did the news not come to them of those before them, the people of Noah and 'Aad and Thamud. And the people of Abraham, and the dwellers of Midyan, and those overthrown. Their messengers came to them with clarity; it was not God who wronged them, but it was themselves that they wronged}...
{And the dwellers of the Thicket were wicked}...
{And the dwellers of the Enclosure disbelieved the messengers}...
{Did you perceive that the dwellers of the Cave and the numbers related were of Our wondrous signs?}...
{And the dwellers of Midyan; and Moses was denied. So I granted respite to the rejecters then I took them, how then was My punishment?}...
{And 'Aad and Thamud and the dwellers of Al-Ras, and many generations in between}...
{The dwellers of the Canyon disbelieved the messengers}...
{And Thamud, and the people of Lot, and the dwellers of the Canyon; these are the Confederates}...
I think this is enough to get the idea.
Now, ignoring references to Hell and Paradise, and those who will dwell therein, we notice a trend
The Quran asks Muhammad and his people to reflect upon what happened to the nations who lived in their vicinity, namely those who lived or resided, for a time, in certain places
Midyan proper name of a town where Moses sought sanctuary, after fleeing from Misr.
The Cave This is obviously not just any cave, but a famous and peculiar one.
Al-Rass proper name of a mountain / valley.
The Enclosure This is actually a mistranslation. The Arabic term is (translit al-Hijr), which is also a proper noun.
Going back to Surah 105, I am proposing a new understanding The word "feel" does NOT mean "elephant" (as in the known animal type), but rather an actual place or location bearing that name.
Hence, the passage would be rendered as such
{Have you not seen what your Lord did to the dwellers of Al-Feel?}
Not only is this interprettaion more consistent, but it also solves plenty of historical discrepencies.
It is asking Muhammad to reflect upon this desolate place, whose inhabitants (ب were obliterated by a volcanic cloud that rained down rocks of cooked clay upon them.
There is no "elephant" at all in the picture.
Regards.
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The million dollar question is where exactly is this region or location called Al-Feel?
After you have pointed out the geographic location of Al-Feel, your next job is to produce any historical, documented, or archaeological evidence that such a place was destroyed in the manner described in Surah al-Feel. You say this place was destroyed by "volcanic cloud that rained down rocks of cooked clay". Therefore, any historical evidence you present must describe the destruction of a place called al-Feel accordingly.
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signifies also (tropical) Heavy ; and low, ignoble, or mean. (K, TA.) -b5- And one says , meaning A man weak in respect of judgment, or opinion; (T, S, M, O, K and so ; (M, K and (T, M, O, K and , (ISk, T, S, M, O, K,) of the measure ; (O) and , (T, M, O, K,) and alone. (S, K.) meaning weak in respect of judgment, or opinion; (T, S, M, O, K erring in insight (S) pl. of the first] (S, M, O, K) but AO says, the is one who, inspecting, forms an opinion and errs; if he err after examining a horse in all its states or conditions and forming an opinion respecting it from his inspection, he is not reckoned to be . (TA.)
An Arabic-English Lexicon. London. Williams and Norgate. 1863.
The U.S. Department of Education, The Max Planck Society provided support for entering this text.
7439 Except for the people of the right.
9018 Those are the people of the right.
9019 As for those who rejected Our revelations, they are the people of misery.
1051
Have you not seen what your Lord did to the people of the weak in judgement/opinion? -
Salam and Peace to all,
this might answer the question of Mr Israfeel,
the place might be the same place where the 3 goddess mentionned in the quran Al-Lat, Al-'Uzza and Manat were found
http//www.brown.edu/Departments/Joukowsky_Institute/Petra/elephant.html
Peace
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Peace, Herbman.
I am aware of the meaning of "fil" you posted. I was involved in a heated debate about this issue on another forum.
However, I feel it's not consistent with the context of destruction / signs to be seen.
I mean, I find the rendering
{Have you not seen what your Lord did to the dwellers of Al-Feel?}...
somehow more logical than
{Have you not seen what your Lord did to those who were weak in judgment?}...
I am against isolating the passages / stories of past nations and suspending them in a vacuum, as this will lead to nefarious agendas.
The million dollar question is where exactly is this region or location called Al-Feel?
I have uncovered 2 candidates for the place.
1- Somewhere in the volcanic plateaus overlooking the gulf of Aden.
2- Outskirts of Hadramaut.Either way, no elephants (animals) are involved.
Peace.
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Salam Pazuz,
I know you have more to tell us and please do!
The Qur'an is so diverse, and yet coherent in its message. Taking Al-Feel as a name of a town or tribe makes more sense than believing the fairy-tale history that Muhammad was born such and such in the Year of the Elephant.
Fabrication and conspiracies have always been tools to fool mankind.
Here is Dr. Shabbir Ahmed's explanation for Chapter 105 of the Qur'an. I posted to show that your explanation is much simpler and makes more sense. Dr. Ahmed has tried to make sense of history (Elephants trampling the soldiers!).
This brief Surah with five verses has a very interesting history behind it. As we have seen in the history of the Empire of Sheba (Surahs An-Naml 27, Saba 34, and Qaaf 50), the kingdom of Sheba had collapsed in 115 BC. They were overtaken by the Himairis who ruled until 300 CE when other tribes overtook the control of Yemen. They were in turn defeated by the Christian Kingdom of Ethiopia-Abyssinia when they invaded Yemen in 525 CE. Abrahah was then appointed Viceroy of Yemen.
The Roman and the Abyssinian Christians longed for converting the idolaters of Arabia to Christianity. They also sought control of the trade routes between Arabia, Persia and the Western Roman Empire. They saw Ka?bah in Makkah as a hindrance to their imperialistic and religious designs. Abrahah, the Viceroy of Yemen made a smart move. Between 550 and 555 CE he built a gorgeous cathedral EKKLESIA in San?aa, Yemen, and invited people and neighboring countries to come for pilgrimage there instead of going to Makkah. When Ekklesia remained unpopular, Abrahah decided to invade Makkah and demolish the Ka?bah.
Since he correctly anticipated the presence of hostile tribes en-route, he came up with a 60,000 Strong army aided by thousands of horses, camels and thirteen elephants.
I agree with the research of Hamiduddin Farahi, Amin Ahsan Islahi and G.A.Parwez on what eventually happened. As Abrahah?s army approached Makkah, the Makkans who had been alerted by some travelers beforehand, saw flocks of birds that normally fly over caravans in search for food. The Makkans mounted the hills around and threw stones on the troops. The elephants, and in turn, other rides panicked and trampled the soldiers. This incident took place in 570 CE when the exalted Messenger was born. The event carried such significance that the Arabs, in their Calendar, marked it as the ?Year of the Elephant? (?Aam-il-Feel) as a point of reference in history.
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{Have you not seen what your Lord did to the dwellers of Al-Feel?}
Not only is this interprettaion more consistent, but it also solves plenty of historical discrepencies.
It is asking Muhammad to reflect upon this desolate place, whose inhabitants (ب were obliterated by a volcanic cloud that rained down rocks of cooked clay upon them.There is no "elephant" at all in the picture.
Please tramslate all and then see whether the above quote also does make sense?
Al Feel The group of people who were puffed with feel of mangificence-ag?gran?dize?ment.
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The Roman and the Abyssinian Christians longed for converting the idolaters of Arabia to Christianity. They also sought control of the trade routes between Arabia, Persia and the Western Roman Empire. They saw Ka?bah in Makkah as a hindrance to their imperialistic and religious designs. Abrahah, the Viceroy of Yemen made a smart move. Between 550 and 555 CE he built a gorgeous cathedral EKKLESIA in San?aa, Yemen, and invited people and neighboring countries to come for pilgrimage there instead of going to Makkah. When Ekklesia remained unpopular, Abrahah decided to invade Makkah and demolish the Ka?bah.
Since he correctly anticipated the presence of hostile tribes en-route, he came up with a 60,000 Strong army aided by thousands of horses, camels and thirteen elephants.
I agree with the research of Hamiduddin Farahi, Amin Ahsan Islahi and G.A.Parwez on what eventually happened. As Abrahah?s army approached Makkah, the Makkans who had been alerted by some travelers beforehand, saw flocks of birds that normally fly over caravans in search for food. The Makkans mounted the hills around and threw stones on the troops. The elephants, and in turn, other rides panicked and trampled the soldiers. This incident took place in 570 CE when the exalted Messenger was born. The event carried such significance that the Arabs, in their Calendar, marked it as the ?Year of the Elephant? (?Aam-il-Feel) as a point of reference in history.
Salam virtueorvice.
What is the original source of this narration?
Regards,
Arman -
Salams to all.
Here, I will present an alternate understanding of the Arabic term (translit "feel", which appears in the opening passage of Surah 105, and is traditionally translated as "elephant".
The thing that struck me was the word that comes directly before it .
In the FM translation, it is rendered as "people of".
And yet, when we look elsewhere, we find that the same word is given the meaning "dwellers of".
So I've decided to gather many passages of the Quran which feature this word - - and check the FM translation and the context of its usage.
Peace Pazuzu,
Is not similar to the sahaba or companions of the prophet Muhammad and not dwellers?
God bless
peace
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Based on
http//en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D9%81%D9%8A%D9%84The arabic "Fil" and hebrew "Pil" is a semitic loanword from Persian "Pil" or Akkadian/Sumerian "Piru".
In all of the above languages, the word means "Elephant".Elephant is not a native of middle east, whether it's in Arabic peninsula, Kanaan, highland of Persia or valley of Eufrat and Tigris, there's no elephant can be found within all those places. The nearest places where one can found elephant is either in India or savannah region of Central Africa.
Nonetheless, it seems the wondrous animal has really amazed the middle easterners.. as such we can find the ornament of elephant appears in the remains of Nabatean's Great Temple in Petra. (today's Jordan)
http//nabataea.net/elephants.htmlhttp//nabataea.net/Photos/Elephant-Column-Recon.jpeg
https//c2.staticflickr.com/6/5014/5454162752_27167ac8d5_z.jpgBased on the size of the ear, the Nabateans sculptured the "Indian/Asian elephant" inside their great temple.
Why did they put elephant, specifically Indian/Asian elephant inside their great temple?
Given the animal is so rare to be found around Petra or Middle East..
Why not camel? or sheep? which is more common?
Did they worshiped Elephant??There's a possibility that the "People/Friends/Associate of the Elephant" is a reference to the Natabeans..
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Mis-interpreting what is clear is the biggest crime. Just because you cant appreciate the dynamics of the Arabic language does not mean the event never took place. Ya Muhammad!
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Just because you can't appreciate the dynamics of the Arabic language does not mean the event never took place.
Which Arabic language are you talking about? Is it the language of Sibawayh and his Persian cohorts who invented the rules of grammar for you?
Furthermore, no one is saying the event never took place. The question is WHICH event is the Quran talking about?
If you are referring to the fairytale regarding the Ethiopians marching an army of elephants to the Hijaz to topple the Kaabah there, and then being punished by birds throwing rocks at them, then I am sorry to say that this fairytale never happened. The Ethiopians, including their general, Abraha, left dozens of inscriptions regarding their conquests at Ma'rib (Yemen), and how they attempted to repair its ruined dam. There is no mention anywhere of Makkah, its Kaabah, or magical birds throwing stones. Futhermore, the Ethiopians CONQUERED Yemen, and Abraha died in his bed, in Sana'a, after a short illness. He did not die on an imaginary battle field in the middle of nowhere.
Archeology trumps your Hadiths any day.
The fairytale of Abraha and his army was projected onto the Quranic passages by interpreters who lived many centuries after Muhammad, had no idea what the Quran was talking about, and mixed history with myths.
The event recounted in Surah 105 concerns a much older event, and has nothing to do with the Ethiopians whatsoever.
Mis-interpreting what is clear is the biggest crime.
So is resorting to the "dynamics" (meaning acrobatics) of the Hadiths to explain the Quran.
Here's an example
Regarding the "birds" mentioned in Surah 105
1- Tafseer al Qurtubi
"They were birds the likes of which were never seen before, nor ever after...They were green, and had yellow beaks"
2- Tafseer Ibn Abbas
"I heard the Messenger of Allah say They were birds not of the Earth, nor from the sky, but hatched in their homes in between...They had beaks like ordinary birds, and the shoulders of dogs"
3- Tafseer of 'Akramah
"They were green birds that came out of the sea, and had the heads of wolves"
4- Tafseer of 'Aisha
"They were like bats, colored red and black"
There are some dynamics for you. Conjecture upon conjecture, and all of it attributed to Muhammad and his teen-age wife.
Would you care to provide us with the Shia Tafseer for this story? I'm interested to know what your Imams say.
@ mmkhan
The words in question are addressing Muhammad. "Did you not see...?". Meaning, they are strengthening his resolve by making him remember the fate of those who plotted and schemed against the messengers in the past. This is the same as when the Quran points him to the ruins of Ad, Thamud and Pharaon (ancient peopels who lives many centuries before Muhammad), by asking the same question "Did you not see....?" This is because the congregations were plotting and scheming against Muhammad, just as the Ashab al-Feel plotted, but God made their plots go astray, and destroyed them. It's the same context.
If the "Feel" refers to the elephant motif on the crown of a column, then where is the evidence that the Nabateans were destroyed in the same manner described in the Quran? You can go to Jordan and check for yourself, and confirm that their cities, still standing, were deserted due to dryness and changing economic conditions. There was no destruction involved that litterally turned their dwellings upside down.
Salam virtueorvice.
What is the original source of this narration?
Its source are the mythological stories of hearsay recounted in the courts of Kisrah and Shehrayar.
I know you have more to tell us, and please do!
At this point, I can only speculate. But I know for a fact that the traditional explanation of elephants showered with stones hurled by birds with dog's heads and bat wings is not true.
Peace.
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@ mmkhan
The words in question are addressing Muhammad. "Did you not see...?". Meaning, they are strengthening his resolve by making him remember the fate of those who plotted and schemed against the messengers in the past. This is the same as when the Quran points him to the ruins of Ad, Thamud and Pharaon (ancient peopels who lives many centuries before Muhammad), by asking the same question "Did you not see....?" This is because the congregations were plotting and scheming against Muhammad, just as the Ashab al-Feel plotted, but God made their plots go astray, and destroyed them. It's the same context.
Peace brother,
As per my understanding the Arabic word taraa refers to physical seeing with the eye as in 7143.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Sura 105 concerning ashab Al-fil has the same formulation " a lam tara" excatly as the speech in sura al Fajr, 89, where several peoples and rulers of the past are remembered as being destroyed or humbled just as the people of Al fil, in both cases it is stated "a lam tara".
I have not seen myself (lam ara) that that verb is used exclusively for physical seeing.
Salaam
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Which Arabic language are you talking about? Is it the language of Sibawayh and his Persian cohorts who invented the rules of grammar for you?
What is your enmity with Persians? There were many Arabic linguists who were Persian and Sibawayh is called the best Arab linguist. What were the Arabs doing? ask yourself.
The Quranic verse did not mention "Abraha". The significance of the Sura is to indicate that Allah All Mighty was able to annihilate an entire army of mounted Elephant riders with only birds. This is to indicate the greatness of Allah and also the significance of the birth of Rasul Al-Adham (SAWA).
Fil as was pointed out originated from Peel in Persian, so this will not go well with you because of its Persian origin. Put aside your racism.
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F-y-l is a perfectly legitimate Arabic root and the meaning from it quite suitable to the meaning of the aya and sura. Also no gang of elephants es mentionned int he sura. If it is elephant it is talking about, then it is singular, a single elephant would be it. Ashab al-fil , not ashab al afial or al fuyul or any plural. Therefore it can hardly be talking about an army of elphants, and by the meaning of it, rather about a people who was filled with itself, pompous and arrogant.
Whether that people had some image of an elephant as an expression of their idea of their own greatness is something by the side. The arabic root itself defines the people, the name "elephant" comes from that root and it is logical to infere that it is because of its size demeanor that it gets a name from that root.
Salaam