Same-sex upbringing of a child?

sushi1992

Hi all,

So I was having a discussion with a friend who was saying to me that they do not see any wrong in Same-sex couples bringing up a child.

I was curious what the reading says about this as I'm not entirely sure.

Bear in mind this isn't a question about homosexuality or whatever other label people want to give. I'm asking the evidence of verses that condone upbringing of children with the same sex parents. I don't personally agree with it, but that's an opinion and the reason I don't is because the implications on the child in society.

Peace all peace

Mikebloke

My personal belief is that two parents are more capable (not necessarily better) than one parent at raising a child, the genders are irrelevant as long as the needs of both the child and the family unit is being provided. I would be happy to fulfill the supposed femine role in raising a child if the other partner was prepared to support the family unit with a Job.

Touching on the subject, I've yet to meet a single homosexual couple to force homosexuality on a child, but I have seen plenty of cases of heterosexual couples force heterosexuality on their child.

I won't knock single parents though, most do an amazing job on their own, some are lucky to find a partner to share their burden, others find support in friends and family and the least fortunate do it completely alone.

Sonny

Quran says many times that homosexuality is disgusting so how can you even ask such a thing!!?? Its funny how westerners pretending to be muslims posting such things. Just pathetic.
Don't mix your luciferian-western view of the world with islam please.

Taro_Hiroshi

Quran says many times that homosexuality is disgusting so how can you even ask such a thing!!?? Its funny how westerners pretending to be muslims posting such things. Just pathetic.
Don't mix your luciferian-western view of the world with islam please.

For some reason, you seem to resort to some false arguments (fallacies) in your post.

I recommend taking a look at these fallacies.

Fallacy Appeal to emotion

http//www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-emotion.html

Fallacy Straw man

http//www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

Fallacy Personal attack (Ad hominem)

http//www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/personal-attack.html

By the way, can you show us which verses in the Quran that says that homosexuality is disgusting? Does the word disgusting even exist in the Quran?

Keep in mind that I have not said that the message of the Quran is pro-homosexuality or anti-homosexuality.

sushi1992

Quran says many times that homosexuality is disgusting so how can you even ask such a thing!!?? Its funny how westerners pretending to be muslims posting such things. Just pathetic.
Don't mix your luciferian-western view of the world with islam please.

Thanks for the post, it was amusing . Could you refrain from posting in here if you see it as "luciferian"? Much appreciated.

Peace peace

sushi1992

My personal belief is that two parents are more capable (not necessarily better) than one parent at raising a child, the genders are irrelevant as long as the needs of both the child and the family unit is being provided. I would be happy to fulfill the supposed femine role in raising a child if the other partner was prepared to support the family unit with a Job.

Touching on the subject, I've yet to meet a single homosexual couple to force homosexuality on a child, but I have seen plenty of cases of heterosexual couples force heterosexuality on their child.

I won't knock single parents though, most do an amazing job on their own, some are lucky to find a partner to share their burden, others find support in friends and family and the least fortunate do it completely alone.

Thanks Mike,

I agree to some degree though it does concern me onsocietal implications. I'm more curious about what the Quran says but I appreciate your response .

peace

Taro_Hiroshi

Peace sushi1992,

As far as I know, there are no verses in the Quran that explicitly forbids same-sex upbringing of a child. And as far as I know there are no verses in the Quran that explicitly forbids same-sex marriage. But there is a verse in the Quran which explains which things the God commands and which things the God forbids.

The God commands these things

Justice.
The doing of good.
Generosity towards one's fellow-men.

The God forbids these things

All that is shameful.
All that runs counter to reason.
Envy.

See verse 1690 (in the translation of M.Asad).

I think there are errors in all translations of the Quran (even in the best ones). And in my opinion, all translations of the Quran contain many errors. I think there are many errors in the different translations of the Quran because they are based on human interpretation (and humans are not perfect and do not have perfect knowledge of revelation). Humans seem to have imperfect knowledge when it comes to the interpretations of God's creation (the universe) and the interpretations of God's revelation (the quran). And that's why science advances in a such a way that old interpretations of the universe becomes obsolete (outdated/superstitious). And that's why islam advances in such a way that old interpretations of the Quranic verses become obsolete (when human knowledge increases).

If the above mentioned translation of verse 1690 in the Quran is correct and "all that runs counter to reason" is forbidden, then same-sex upbringing of a child might be in conflict with the laws of the Quran.

Quran 2755 (Asad)
Must you really approach men with lust instead of women? Nay, but you are people without any awareness (of right and wrong)!"

Quran 2755 (A monotheist translation)
"You are approaching the men out of desire instead of the women! Indeed, you are an ignorant people.

Armanaziz

Salamun Alaikum

If a same sex person donates money to a poor person - is that discouraged in Qur'an? I believe this is a no brainer, right? The same sex issue is one issue and the charity is a different issue. If a person is donating money with sincere intentions (i.e. not to show off etc.) his sexual life should not be a consideration for his charity to be acceptable.

440 Indeed Allah does not wrong (by) the weight of an atom ? and if there happens to be (something) nice, He multiplies it and gives from His own a great reward.

(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)

Now extending the same argument, if a same-sex couple is adopting an orphan child and trying to give him/her a better life and protection than he/she would otherwise have - then that is an independent nice work (hasanatan) separate from their personal sexual affairs. I do not see any "Qur'anic" reason to discourage such an arrangement. Perhaps, by doing good in one way, they may be able to redeem from any inappropriate behaviour they did in their past.

However, if there is reason to anticipate the adopting parents may distort the child's healthy upbringing by exposing him/her to lewd behavior, then that's a separate consideration. Pervert people come in all shape, size and form - they do not necessarily have to be same-sex.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

Sonny

For some reason, you seem to resort to some false arguments (fallacies) in your post.

By the way, can you show us which verses in the Quran that says that homosexuality is disgusting? Does the word disgusting even exist in the Quran?

Qur'an (26165-166) - "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing"

Thanks for the post, it was amusing . Could you refrain from posting in here if you see it as "luciferian"? Much appreciated.

Peace peace

Well, the biggest supporter of homosexuality and homosexual himself was man knows as "The Beast 666" and "The Wickedest Man in the World" - Alistair Crowley, says everything.
And not just that, same people who support these "human rights" movements are behind feminism, homosexuality, multiculturality etc.. watch this http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhJCTFZf03A

When you go deep inside the rabbit hole you will see all evil behind it. New Age religions movement, big banks, elites, human rights movements its all connected. Their ultimate goal is not freedom of humanity but absolute control, both mind and body, destruction of all religions and cultures. When you connect all dots your head will explode. For example go to your search engine and search for "Biggest funders of LGBT movement" and you will see who supports them.

Also go to google images and type "gay pride", you will see absolute disgusting images that will make you sick. And you wanna tell me that these people would be good parents? Homosexuality is pure Luciferian agenda to destroy cultures and family. Iblees is probably laughing now with words "You stupid humans"

Mikebloke

Thanks Mike,

I agree to some degree though it does concern me onsocietal implications. I'm more curious about what the Quran says but I appreciate your response ).

peace

Sorry it clicked to me about 5 seconds after posting that I didn't refer to the Quran, though I didn't honestly think any verses prohibited same sex parenthood, whether the relationship of those parents were platonic or romantic.

The only "societal implications" I can think of is that it upsets frigid heterosexuals who are uncomfortable with their own sexuality they think everyone else is as well.

Mikebloke

If the above mentioned translation of verse 1690 in the Quran is correct and "all that runs counter to reason" is forbidden, then same-sex upbringing of a child might be in conflict with the laws of the Quran.

Quran 2755 (Asad)
Must you really approach men with lust instead of women? Nay, but you are people without any awareness (of right and wrong)!"

Quran 2755 (A monotheist translation)
"You are approaching the men out of desire instead of the women! Indeed, you are an ignorant people.

To use bad comedy films as a terrible analogy, but there are various situations in which a single male parent has successfully raised a child with a male friend or relative, and certainly the same has been said to a single female parent as well. I'm sure historically people of the book or early Muslims sometimes had situations in which a single parent raised children with only one dominant gender being involved in the raising of the child. The male-female parenthood is not really a necessary part, support, nutrients, knowledge is.

sushi1992

I think the story of Lut is a whole different subject and it should not be taken out of context as I've seen it be done. It needs to be read fully to understand that it is not exactly harping on about men haven't sex with other men but it's more to do with rape, oppression and looking to cause harm to Lut's guests. I think it needs to be studied carefully and not assume that it is talking about same sex relations. I might cringe at the thought, but as long as people keep their sex lives private then I can't say any wrong, and if they are committing perverse acts in hiding, then it is for God to judge, not us. Admittedly the upbringing of children by a male-male couple or female-female couple can only seem "wrong" to me in the sense that if they promote to the child to prefer the same sex, as it is also unnecessary to tell the child they must like the opposite sex. I'm sure most are aware that if everyone were seeking the same sex then ethical boundaries might be crossed if everyone is doing artificial insemination....

Either way, I'm straight but I'm starting to humble myself slightly to the idea of people having a kid in a same sex relationship. Just sometimes concerns me if kids get brought up thinking it's the norm, or feeling isolated when they realise it's not and their parents aren't the "norm".

Then again, not in my place to say.

peace

Mikebloke

Just sometimes concerns me if kids get brought up thinking it's the norm, or feeling isolated when they realise it's not and their parents aren't the "norm".

Then again, not in my place to say.

peace

I don't believe there has been a single case of any child believing homosexuality as being a norm of society since the fall of the Macedonian Empire in 168BC, and even then greek societies still required relationships with the opposite sex to birth children. That might even be the only case in history in which male-male relationships was the primary relationship. There have been cases throughout history where male-male relationships rears its head (Student-Master relationships in Japanese society, Cowboy lifestyle in the American Wild West period) but that seems to be based upon lust at the chance of opportunity and lack of alternatives rather than societal norm. In the case of the Greek states, male-male marriages was seen as the norm as men would be brought up to be soldiers, fighters, warriors. They will spend 99% of their life in the presence of other men, and it was logical to seek a life partner in the same unit as yourself as that would have been where you spent the most time being on campaigns or in fortifications.

Going to the side slightly, its interesting to note that progressively the Roman Republic then Empire became increasingly anti-Women over time, possibly adopting Greek culture of Women as second class citizens as Roman and Greek culture mingled between each other during that time period. I find it ironic that hardline hadithers seem to share common themes of preventing Women from going out, preventing Women from speaking out, disliking Women from earning money and owning property and pushing Women to wear particular articles of clothing is exactly the same steps as the Roman Empire took as time went on. They also shared this concept of a monocultural family upbringing system in which any alternative was seen as strange, discouraged and often met with violence. The crushing of alternative views is common to all authoritarian systems.

sushi1992

I don't believe there has been a single case of any child believing homosexuality as being a norm of society since the fall of the Macedonian Empire in 168BC, and even then greek societies still required relationships with the opposite sex to birth children. That might even be the only case in history in which male-male relationships was the primary relationship. There have been cases throughout history where male-male relationships rears its head (Student-Master relationships in Japanese society, Cowboy lifestyle in the American Wild West period) but that seems to be based upon lust at the chance of opportunity and lack of alternatives rather than societal norm. In the case of the Greek states, male-male marriages was seen as the norm as men would be brought up to be soldiers, fighters, warriors. They will spend 99% of their life in the presence of other men, and it was logical to seek a life partner in the same unit as yourself as that would have been where you spent the most time being on campaigns or in fortifications.

Going to the side slightly, its interesting to note that progressively the Roman Republic then Empire became increasingly anti-Women over time, possibly adopting Greek culture of Women as second class citizens as Roman and Greek culture mingled between each other during that time period. I find it ironic that hardline hadithers seem to share common themes of preventing Women from going out, preventing Women from speaking out, disliking Women from earning money and owning property and pushing Women to wear particular articles of clothing is exactly the same steps as the Roman Empire took as time went on. They also shared this concept of a monocultural family upbringing system in which any alternative was seen as strange, discouraged and often met with violence. The crushing of alternative views is common to all authoritarian systems.

I also believe that the Roman Empire had a big influence in chauvinism and how women were seen as lesser than men. Unfortunately, it is clear that from what we can see from evidences we have collected, many sects have a adopted this thinking - sad...