Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
-
Harmony reel,
Those passages do not mention any physical house. The word used does not mean house but assembly. It is ignorant people who interpreted it in the beginning. It is supposed to say Abraham laid the foundation of the first assembly, and prayed for the land to be a one of affinity.
People who read them are merely beguiled.
Sources I know indicate that Solomon built the first temple.
Have faith
-
There is an entire Surah called Hajj which mentions ancient house on and on.
That may well be, but I hope you realise the seemingly small but important point I am making, which was "...the Quran verses you are likely alluding to are referring to "bayt" or "al bayt al muharam" which may or may not be the same as "kaabah". Also, Quran never mentions him building anything in "Makkah", only "Bakkah" (not kaabah though) which only has weak evidence suggesting "Bakkah" is the same as "Makkah"."
As I said
The cuboid called Kaabah that is in Mecca today has no Quranic evidence for it. The evidence is based on secondary sources, mixed with Quran interpolations, assumptions etc. Albeit it is the common view, but common is not equivalent to evidenced.
For my view
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.htmlOne of the interesting findings was how the Quranic evidence suggests "al bayt" (the shelter) can be a reference to a safe locality*. Much to my surprise, a good explanation for some of the traditions. What I have noticed is that generally speaking the traditions are a mix of truth and falsehood, but that does not mean everything in them is false. We can use The Quran as our criterion to determine which is which.
*Abraham brought such a place to fruition, hence us being recommended to follow his blueprint, or in Quran parlance "...take from the status (maqam) of Abraham a time/place of blessing (musalla)..."
-
Peace Hawk.
A good question!
However , we humans have all sorts of weird and wonderful answers according to our weird and wonderful opinions/beliefs/lack of them...etc?
That is why GOD sends messengers!!!!!!
And we also have the choice to follow GOD and His messenger or "others"?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
That is why GOD sends messengers!!!!!!
And if people could just stop perverting information and fabricating what is not true, then those messengers who were would have been enough who already were.
But the truth is quite much easier than people want to make it. You have the old Guidelines of Moses yes? And you may have heard what Jesus had to say about them? And you have understood the parables of gaining affinity with Allah and the realm?
In case you do, then you need no additional messenger.
Have faith
-
And if people could just stop perverting information and fabricating what is not true, then those messengers who were would have been enough who already were.
But people do pervert/fabricate/misunderstand, hence the need for explaining,
like we are doing now!God bless
peace
-
We want explanation for we are looking for a religion. This is why.
It is not rocket science what we must do, even if one can make it like that, but then it is also easy to lose oneself in confusion and conjecture.
Have faith
-
Peace Man of Faith,
Please clarify the above statement.
God bless you
peace
His idea of a religion is more of a spiritual one than a physical one, which is having many physical rituals to abide by. And that if we follow the 10 Commandments of Moses and the teachings of Jesus only, we don't really need to abide by anything else, especially in the form of physical rituals. And that it is the Muslims' obsession to turning God into an 'objectified God' and form and trying to please this God like people would to a pagan God, as though it needs mechanical rituals to produce mechanical results to people, which created much of the downfall of the Muslims. And it is the adherence of the Western world to the spiritual values and teachings of Jesus and abandoning much of the other parts of religion which caused the Western world to prosper.
Peace,
Samira
-
His idea of a religion is more of a spiritual one than a physical one, which is having many physical rituals to abide by. And that if we follow the 10 Commandments of Moses and the teachings of Jesus only, we don't really need to abide by anything else, especially in the form of physical rituals. And that it is the Muslims' obsession to turning God into an 'objectified God' and form and trying to please this God like people would to a pagan God, as though it needs mechanical rituals to produce mechanical results to people, which created much of the downfall of the Muslims. And it is the adherence of the Western world to the spiritual values and teachings of Jesus and abandoning much of the other parts of religion which caused the Western world to prosper.
Peace Samira,
So in your version of Islam there is no ablution (ritual)?
No Ramadan (ritual)?
No Salat (ritual)?
No hajj (ritual)?
God Bless you
peace
-
According to Man of Faith, we need to abide by the 10 commandments of Moses and the teachings of Jesus, such as in the New Testament. He says there is no ablution, Salah, and Hajj. Not sure about Ramadan though. He has a wholly different way of interpreting the Quranic scripture though from others, which could be seen as radically different. Anyway, his point is, Muhammad didn't really come with a "new" message to people, but rather repeat the same message as did the previous Prophets like Moses and Jesus. It is people who could not interpret the Quran properly, and ended up adding paganistic rituals. And the Kaaba is one paganistic structure, the Cube of Saturn apparently.
You still need to verify them yourself. Particularly the Salah part. Man of Faith says God is more looking at a person's spirit, how much they assimilate themselves with their inner divine, and how much they reduce their ego self, rather than outward rituals to "bride" God, which God has no real use for. Anyway, that is Man of Faith's interpretation.
Peace,
Samira
-
That may well be, but I hope you realise the seemingly small but important point I am making, which was "...the Quran verses you are likely alluding to are referring to "bayt" or "al bayt al muharam" which may or may not be the same as "kaabah". Also, Quran never mentions him building anything in "Makkah", only "Bakkah" (not kaabah though) which only has weak evidence suggesting "Bakkah" is the same as "Makkah"."
The cuboid called Kaabah that is in Mecca today has no Quranic evidence for it. The evidence is based on secondary sources, mixed with Quran interpolations, assumptions etc. Albeit it is the common view, but common is not equivalent to evidenced.
For my view
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.htmlThose passages do not mention any physical house. The word used does not mean house but assembly. It is ignorant people who interpreted it in the beginning. It is supposed to say Abraham laid the foundation of the first assembly, and prayed for the land to be a one of affinity.
I saw the word bayt in the verse. I will have to do additional research to come to a proper conclusion. This is all I have right now.
http//islamawakened.com/quran/roots/files/screen-shot-2013-09-02-at-3.10.37-am.jpg
I also have to read the entire Hajj Surah. To my knowledge, Bakkah is Makkah. Scholars are the ones who for some reason think Kabbah is Bakkah. Quran rejects it and confirms Bakkah to be a city/town/location but not a house.
The first Sanctuary established for the people is the one in Bakk'a, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds.396
-
In addition to my previous post https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607054.msg359847#msg359847
Some may find this work useful. There was some interesting bits, e.g.
Quote
The Arabs who inhabited the Peninsula used to offer their hair as a sacrifice to Manāt. Interestingly, having made a pilgrimage to Al-Kaba in Mecca, the goddess’ followers believed that the hajj ritual could be deemed complete only after they also visited the goddess’ sanctuary in Kudayd. Manāt’s name, just like that of Al-Lāt and Al-‘Uzzā, was invoked during the oath taking ceremonies. The three goddesses were also worshipped in the Kuraysh’s Mecca. According to many scholars, in the pre-Muslim era the famous Al-Kaba served as the all-Arab cult centre of Al-Lāt, Al-‘Uzzā and Manāt, all of whom were later recognized as daughters of the supreme god Hubal and then Allāh, whom the Arabs were to equate with Hubal.Coincidentally there are 3 pillars inside the cuboid called Kaabah. I don't know if this is related.
-
What is more interesting is that small altar. Whats its function?
590 O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are made foul by the work of the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
Another thing is that i expected the cuboid to have 4 corners but there are 6 as if it was made purposely. Then we have those jars hanging - i think there is much more symbolism then we might think. And it can only have pagan origins.
-
In addition to my previous posts https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607054.msg427188#msg427188
From
https//www.almuslih.org/Library/Peterson,%20S%20-%20The%20Cult%20of%20Dushara.pdfQuote
This is also done in the city of Petra (this is the capital of Arabia, which is called
Edom in the scriptures), in the temple of the idol there. They sing hymns to the
virgin in Arabia, calling her in Arabic "Chaabu," which means Core or "virgin,"
and the one born from her "Dusares," which means "only begotten of the Lord."
The rite is also performed in the city of Elusa on that night as in Petra andIn this passage Epiphanius elucidates the rituals of the Nabataeans with the intent of
showing that the Nabataeans understood the concept of a virgin birth, like the
Christians.273 In his explanation, he names the main deity of the Nabataeans as Dushara,
but is incorrect in his explanation of Dushara's origins. According to Epiphanius,
Dushara is worshipped as the son of a virgin, which raises questions as to the
role of Ruda, if female, or Allat in relation to the deity? In fact, it appears that
Epiphanius confused the Arabic word ka 'ba, which means "stone, cube, betyl," with
words such as ka'iba or ku 'ba, which mean "young females" or "female breasts."
Because of this confusion, Epiphanius concluded that Dushara was born from a virgin,
misinterpreting Dushara's actual worship in the form of a stone. Aside from the
etymylogical confusion, Epiphanius does indicate a festival of the Nabataeans that
occurred on the sixth of January, around the winter solstice. -
Controversy about Becca and Mecca
It seems strange that some people thought that the House built by Iebra'heim and Iesma'eile is not the one which exists in Mecca but it was another one. They opine that it was a different House by referring to the use of Proper Noun Becca, in Qur’ān, which seems to them a site located somewhere in the blessed plains of the holy lands possibly near or at the location where subsequent temples were built and maintained by "Hebrew Prophets".
Grand Qur’ān explicitly explains every fact and its text is par excellence in self-referencing. Both these Proper Nouns are mentioned once, in different contexts; they are neither synonyms nor interchangeable; one is the Town described by masculine gender while the other, referring the City Mecca, is described by feminine gender. I find it very interesting that on whatever point the people were to erroneously conjecture stories with reference to some element of the text of Qur’ān, it is explained equally in detail as an advance rebuttal of such conjectural gossips.
The House of Allah the Exalted was built in the Town then named Becca, now part of city Mecca.
We are informed
https//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Individual%20Ayaat/003.%20Ale%20Imran/03/03.96-97.htm
-
To my knowledge there is an actuall valley of bakka in jerusalem. Also muhammad initially turned towards jerusalem and than the verse about changing direction occured. My question is why did they initially turned towards the jerusalem?
-
To my knowledge there is an actuall valley of bakka in jerusalem. Also muhammad initially turned towards jerusalem and than the verse about changing direction occured. My question is why did they initially turned towards the jerusalem?
Salaam,
I'm convinced that the true direction of pray is towards Jerusalem. This is based on historical evidence. We know for centuries that the Jews prayed in the direction of Jerusalem three times a day. We also know that the direction of pray is based on God making a covenant with Abraham on the day he was to sacrifice his son. That site became the location in which the Temple of Solomon was built. This was a holy site for centuries.
There is a archaeologist called Dan Gibson (you should take a look at some of his work) that wrote a book called "Quranic Geography" of which he stated that the Qibla was most likely switched. However his belief is that it was the city of Petra.
Check out this youtube vid The Mecca Mystery Are Muslims Praying In The Wrong Direction?
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOWFPTzK7D4Regards,
Kevin
