Inheritance according to Qur?an
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Hello Mazhar,
So you interpret the word instead of 'servant', as 'allegiant'. Are you sure the interpretation is accurate as to the Arabic text? Would you use the same word 'allegiant' for all the verses containing the same word?
2186 And if My servants ask you about Me, I am near answering the calls of those who call to Me. So let them respond to Me and believe in Me that they may be guided.
2759 Say "Praise be to God, and peace be upon His servants whom He has selected." Is God better, or that which you set up?
Peace.
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You are talking on this part of 411 right
"CONCERNING your children, God enjoins upon you The male shall have the equal of two females' share; but if there are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds of what leave behind..."
So are you saying if there are two or more daughters, the ruling on males getting twice of that of females get abrogated, and the females regardless of other people, directly inherits 2/3 of the estate? This makes it confusing. So when is the ruling on males getting twice of that of females applicable? When there is only one daughter versus son/s?
What would the son/s inherit then?
Peace.
Look at this
4.11. He instructs as to your children to the male the same portion as that of the two females, and if there are more than two women, for them two thirds of the of what left (the decesed).
Several things
In this part "to the male the same portion as that of the two females"
Look at it carefully and forget what you have been told or what you, like a masochist, want to believe because you do not dare believe the opposite.
Does it say to the male double that of the female? No it does not. Does it say to the male the same as the sum of the two females? No it does not.
It says the portion of the two females.Now if you have two accounts, and put an amount, in each of the them, the sme amount, in each of them. and then comes somebody an tells you put in this other acount the same you have put in the other two. What do you understand? Answer that.
Then, immediately it goes on, and if there are more than two women... This is continuing from before, where we were given a number of females, which were two, we go on on to the next case, where there are more than two. Have we been told that the whole thing has changed and we are not talking any more concerning "Your children" but that we are talking only about females? Do you see any indication of that? I do not. As far as I can read, the discourse continuews to be about "Your children", so yes, indeed, if there are women over two, they get two thirds of the succession, the rest to be distributed, between those children that are not women, because we are still talking about "Your children".
Now, do not come and tell that the Qur'an this and that. That is what it says, if you want to think that you must punish yourself an pick for the Qur'an the worst idiocy you can imagine, do not blame the Qur'an, blame yourself or all those millions aout there that exert so much pressure in your mind that you do not dare to decide for yourself what yous hould understand. You is ruling you? The millions our there, the centuries of purported history and purported saying of purported knowers?
Would you have others believe that what is plainly written and said cannot be that, because so many peoppole cannot be wrong?
As to what would the son/s get, well I guess it is not that complicated, the only compplicated thing is that you do not allow yourself to trust what you read and be made laughable by the millions out there, who obviously are very comfortable with believe that the same portion given to each of two people is the same as the sum of that portion.
If it was the double that a male should get than the female, you can be trustful that there are means in Arabic to say that, exactly. But it does not say it.
Salaam
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Nothing gets abbrogated. The ground relaities change, the fortunes change.
I do not understand. See this part of 411 verse carefully (I removed the bracket containing 'only'
"Allah instructs you concerning your children for the male, what is equal to the share of two females. But if there are daughters, two or more, for them is two thirds of one's estate. And if there is only one, for her is half."
What does it mean? Since you interpret the Quran literally. The sentence on daughters start with 'But'. Which means the previous statement on males inheriting twice of females gets abrogated apparently. Can you please try to make it clear for me? Thanks.
Peace.
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Hello Mazhar,
So you interpret the word instead of 'servant', as 'allegiant'. Are you sure the interpretation is accurate as to the Arabic text? Would you use the same word 'allegiant' for all the verses containing the same word?
2186 And if My servants ask you about Me, I am near answering the calls of those who call to Me. So let them respond to Me and believe in Me that they may be guided.
2759 Say "Praise be to God, and peace be upon His servants whom He has selected." Is God better, or that which you set up?
Peace.
I hope you know the fact that collocates do effect the meanings of words in a sentence. He is not asked to address his personal servants. The following relative pronoun clarifies he is not addressing to his personal servants but allegiants who accept him as their rules, guide.
Root " " denotes a relational signification that can be translated as "slavery-servitude-allegiance-subject" in reference to his Master.
Subservience and allegiance to anyone other than one's creator and guide costs compromising one's self respect. But everything which is created is always subservient to the will and desire of its creator since the creator puts in it the built-in guidance for its every cell/component part to coherently function for the achievement of the purpose for which it was created. Human beings are given the freedom of choice, will and decision for the purpose that they behave rationally and submit by will affectionately and willingly to their Creator since they know that they were created, like everything around them, by the Creator. Therefore, like every thing around them they should also owe their allegiance and subservience to their Creator which will not cost them sacrifice of self respect and ego. When they submit to anyone other than their Creator and the appointed guide they in fact humiliate and degrade themselves.
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I am confused. The verse says the male gets portion of two females, and if there are more than two females, they get 2/3 of the property. Can you demonstrate this in a real life case example as to how it would work?
And how to you interpret this part of the verse
"And if she is only one, then she will have one half."
Here for if she is only one, is it only one daughter as a child or only one daughter and some number of sons as well?
Peace.
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I hope you know the fact that collocates do effect the meanings of words in a sentence. He is not asked to address his personal servants. The following relative pronoun clarifies he is not addressing to his personal servants but allegiants who accept him as their rules, guide.
So in the case of Allah we are servants, and in the case of Muhammad we are allegiants, and not personal servants? I am confused.
Peace.
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I do not understand. See this part of 411 verse carefully (I removed the bracket containing 'only'
"Allah instructs you concerning your children for the male, what is equal to the share of two females. But if there are daughters, two or more, for them is two thirds of one's estate. And if there is only one, for her is half."
What does it mean? Since you interpret the Quran literally. The sentence on daughters start with 'But'. Which means the previous statement on males inheriting twice of females gets abrogated apparently. Can you please try to make it clear for me? Thanks.
Peace.
But translated for conjunction particle "Fa" CORE-MEANING a grammatical word used in the middle of or at the beginning of a sentence to introduce something that is true in spite of either being or seeming contrary to what has just been said
introducing opposing proposition used to introduce a statement that disagrees with something just said- conjunction
introducing further information used to introduce a clause or a new sentence that adds information such as background or reasoning - conjunction
except that used to introduce a dependent clause, e.g. a reason for doing or not doing something
Arabic conjunction particle "Fa" is used for sequence, cause and effect relations, apodosis clause. So "but" can be used.
Both the clauses are mentioning a different and exclusive to each other ground reality and instructions are accordinglt given.
The syntactic analysis is given at Para 21-22 of the link I had given earlier. For convenince
Inheritance according to injunctions in Grand Qur'aan - conjunction
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I am confused. The verse says the male gets portion of two females, and if there are more than two females, they get 2/3 of the property. Can you demonstrate this in a real life case example as to how it would work?
And how to you interpret this part of the verse
"And if she is only one, then she will have one half."
Here for if she is only one, is it only one daughter as a child or only one daughter and some number of sons as well?
Peace.
No, please, read what I wrote and which as faithful translation as doable as far as I can jedge. It is not "portion of two females" it s the "portion of THE two females". The two females is a given and each gets a portion. The females are not counted as cattle, they are two specific individuals who each gets a portion.
You see, the Qur'an in the case of inheritance as in other things too, sets things as a function of females, that is set, and then the rest is fitted to that, which is the given factor.
So, if it is instructing regarding "your children, "awladicum" (all your children, daughters and sons) it does not change in the pararagraph to make it only one gender, nowhere is such change in the consideration introduced, it keeps to "awladicum" all along. You do not need to make any specification, becuse the basic factor are the females, the whole is settled as a function of them. So it does not matter what the rest is, it will be settled once the female part is settled. And since no distinction is made as to individual females or males, it is taken that the children of either sex will get each of them the same amount as the others. That is, of the two thirds alloted to the more than two females will be devided equally between them. As is previously done between the two females, which sets the measure since it is understood that the two females get the same amount or there wouldn't make sense to fix the amount for the male as the same as the amount of the two females.
And, again, where in the paragraph is it said that we have changed from dealing with "your children" (daughters and sons, whatever they are) and that we have started dealing only with the case of only daughters? There is no such thing, we are still with "your children".
And what is the problem. if you have a whole and then take two thirds, clearly there willbe one third left. If you take half there will be another half left. I am not a wheez at mathematics, but that far I can get, and anybody can get.
The problem is not hte Qur'an. The problem is not daring to think the "unthinkable", what? Poor overburdened males who really sacrifice their whole lives for the women will get less than them? Yes unthinkable. However to think that women who get the burden of given life and many times are abandoned by the selfscrificing males should get always or almost always half of what the males get that is perfectly thinkable, right? For God's sake, males are god...
No, the problem is not the Qur'an, the problem is the contumacious habit of not daring believe what it says, and instead try to "interpret" it. ?How could we let the Qur'an run riot with our beliefs?
You have the problem, Samira, not the Qur'an. Of course, you are not the only one who has a problem, far from that you are in plenty of company.
And that is one reason why I think God has allowed the rather irreligeous "west" to gain power, to open up a door from which honest belief in God and His revelation by sincere muslims may access to another stage of social conscience and humanity. God knows nd we do not. Praised be He and may He shower His guidance on us.
Salaam
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So in the case of Allah we are servants, and in the case of Muhammad we are allegiants, and not personal servants? I am confused.
Peace.
A servant-subject is he who owes allegiance and servitude to his master. Servant is a limited word denoting a persons who serves some one else; a personal attendant to somebody is also called servant. So "allegiant" is a better word for Arabic 'abd" when referred with Allah the Exalted or the Messenger sas.
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I am as confused as I could get regarding inheritance. I feel like I am rolling around in the mud with only mud in sight.
And that is one reason why I think God has allowed the rather irreligeous "west" to gain power, to open up a door from which honest belief in God and His revelation by sincere muslims may access to another stage of social conscience and humanity. God knows nd we do not. Praised be He and may He shower His guidance on us.
God did not let the West gain power, the West with their mindset and thinking gained power for themselves. Some of the Muslim countries are more blessed with their overload of natural resources. Yet due to having Muslim mindset from the scripture, the countries do not progress more than what would have been possible. See countries like Singapore. They built their country from scratch and is now a developed country, mainly for their mindset. The West adopted spiritual values from the 10 Commandments of Moses and teachings from the New Testament of Jesus, who first brought the teaching of The "Golden Rule", on 'do unto others what you would want for yourself', which I see nearly absent or hypocritical at times in the Quran in it's current interpretations, which gave them the opportunity to write on human rights and having a better conscience. I appreciate our Muslims' sense of modesty and chastity though.
Looks like for a long time we Muslims would have to look up to the West to teach us on human rights, and even give us human rights by migrating to the West or seeking their help, which many Muslims do already.
Peace.
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Go ahead, forget God and create the Church of the Divine West, and the divine bible with the devil Eve and its racists horrors and genocides.
Good luck.
Who are you trying to delude? For God's sake you seem to be swallowing the christianist bullshit. Those same that killed millions of women in the fire because they were witches. Who did away with any disidents by the harshest means, who very recently sent millions upon millions to death in two great wars, and destroyed Palestine and somalia, and iraq and Libya.
Go and suck up to them and good luck.
Salaam
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The spiritual values and teachings of Jesus in the New Testament are basically good ones. If the Christians cherry-pick his teachings only, the fruit would be good more or less. And it's not just the West, even the European countries and mostly founded on similar values and teachings. Sweden managed to deflect war in it's country during World War 2 through peaceful means. Scandinavian countries are all mostly peaceful. It's their mindset more than anything else which contributed to their current state of country. Iceland can easily be taken as a symbol for feminism, while being the developed and peaceful country it is.
Go ahead, forget God and create the Church of the Divine West, and the divine bible with the devil Eve and its racists horrors and genocides.
I wonder if the Muslims think and behave the same way when they migrate to the West and look up to them to give them their human rights, which they enforced in the first place.
I still have no idea how you interpreted the inheritance verse. An example of your theoretical explanation would be helpful.
Peace.
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the divine bible with the devil Eve
Good you pronounced her name properly. Instead of calling her "the devil Adam's mate".
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Samaria, spare us, or at least me, your tricks aat moving posts and acting like the Qur'an is shit and christianity and Bible this and the Bible that. You make sorry fake with those things. If yu are interested in the Qur'an, discuss it loyaly, which you have not done yet. If what you ar einterested in is in spiting poison against the Qur'an and even God, go ahead andmake a laughing stock of yourself, but do not expect to get a better answer than what you give.
Your rants against the Qur'an and against other things yoou are so kin in discrediting and you ever so sweetness and sweet Jesus and that pop christian crap hope give you some profit in some respect, as to respect itself I doubt they willg et you any, but I also doubt that it is respect you are after or after being taken seriously.
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There are a number of very good and beautiful teachings in the Quran. I appreciate that. But there seems to be an overwhelmingly large number of non-spiritual type teachings, which concerns me regarding the scripture. Just read Surah al-Anfal, al-Tawbah and al-Masad as examples. When contrasted with such types of teachings I appreciate the character and teachings of Jesus in the New Testament at a number of places. The Quran seems to be missing that spiritual depth within it. And no, I am not a Christian simply for appreciating Jesus.
I am just a truth seeker at this point, that's all.
Peace.
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2 daughters are apportioned 2/3 of wealth of the deceased parent by Allah the Exalted, inalienably.
husband, mother, and father surviving are to be given according to the will of the deceased from the remaining 1/3rd.Explain (no will) he was suddenly hit in the head with a brick?
Explain which part states exactly two daughters get 2/3?
Explain be consistent (no will) 2 sons, husband, mother, father?Please use verses #'s for benefit of others state exactly which Arabic word/s you are translating as what in English.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.178/36.gif It is plural and is NOMINATIVE. It is the subject noun of deficient perfect verb "Kana", and is about its fronted predicate. It means "However, if brothers and sisters of the deceased also existed, thereby, the One Sixth shall be the share apportioned for his Mother."
Are you sure it's plural applicable to either sex and have you cross-referenced all occurrences without dialectic marks?
Then distribute (no will) hit with a brick 2 daughters, mother, 1 sister, 1 brother
Again, explain which verses you are applying and which Arabic word/s you are translating as what?
I still have no idea how you interpreted the inheritance verse. An example of your theoretical explanation would be helpful.
That reading/view is thus...
411 instructs you the god in awldikum/offspring yours
http//oi58.tinypic.com/v7avt4.jpg
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Hello hawk99,
Um, can you show me how you translated those specific verses I showed in my last posts? Only then I can understand your point better.
Peace.
Peace Samira1234
Thank you for replying to my post.
I see nothing wrong with your translations, therefore I can conclude you do not understand my point.
I am convinced that you truly believe what you have learned from your atheist teacher to be true,
we have no conflict. Allah creates all kind of people from prophets to devils and all in between.As for the Quran you seem to be one of those who have been led astray by it
I will divert from My revelations those who are arrogant on earth, without justification.
Consequently, when they see every kind of proof they will not believe. And when they see the
path of guidance they will not adopt it as their path, but when they see the path of straying they
will adopt it as their path. This is the consequence of their rejecting our proofs, and being totally
heedless thereof.The mirror effect
The inherently violent person will "see" the Quran as a warriors manual, the confused
person will be confused by it, the non-believer will see it as nonsense, the humble
person will be made content by it. The person in search of salvation can find wisdom
and salvation in its ayats. The tyrant will use it to further his agenda, the believer will
fall prostrate.God bless you
peace
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@Noon
"to the male similitude apportion the two (females)"
Which means the distribution, when two females and one male, is equal for all of them?
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There are a number of very good and beautiful teachings in the Quran. I appreciate that. But there seems to be an overwhelmingly large number of non-spiritual type teachings, which concerns me regarding the scripture. Just read Surah al-Anfal, al-Tawbah and al-Masad as examples. When contrasted with such types of teachings I appreciate the character and teachings of Jesus in the New Testament at a number of places. The Quran seems to be missing that spiritual depth within it. And no, I am not a Christian simply for appreciating Jesus.
I am just a truth seeker at this point, that's all.
Peace.
If you cannot find anything spiritual int he Qur'an I am sorry for you. It is not the Qur'an's fault that is for sure. The pparables of Jesus in the gospels are good. Some very, very good but I do not see what is the use of starting a competiton between parables and The Qur'an. If there is such competition of course I pick the Qur'an any time, but in fact, that bompetition you are bringing up is nonsense. Good things do not compete with each other and that competition things makes me distrust the sincerity of peopole who come up with it. For me there is no question fo choosing this rather than that when in fact there is no need of choosing, because AS THE QUR'AN SAYS there is only one religion which is self delivery to God, submission to God, some say, I don't like that translation of islam, but rather self-delivery into God's Mercy.
I spit in this idiocy of making prophets fight each other. Haven' you read the Qur'an and seen that we should not do that. That we must accept ll prophets and that God has sent prophets to all peopple and that they are all one, no conflict between them?
What 3isa taught is what all prophets have taught everywhere.
Salaam
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So you see nothing wrong with the translations of those verses I mentioned earlier? Those verses give a crystal-clear picture of hell, which is a roaring and raging fire, with hell angels, zaqqum tree and pus for food, boiling water being poured on the person which will melt their insides, etc. And somehow "magically" you transformed all of them into allegories. When I ask you on them, you don't reply how you turned them into allegories, you call me "arrogant".
Seeing this verse
I will divert from My revelations those who are arrogant on earth, without justification.
Consequently, when they see every kind of proof they will not believe. And when they see the
path of guidance they will not adopt it as their path, but when they see the path of straying they
will adopt it as their path. This is the consequence of their rejecting our proofs, and being totally
heedless thereof.The Western and the European countries are seemingly "diverted" from the Quran, and are apparently doing just fine, actually better than a number of Muslim countries, particularly those without natural resources such as oil. And what proofs am I rejecting? I am trying to see things clearly without being religiously indoctrinated as I was my whole life and saw things with rose-coloured lenses, and people are trying to put me back in that religious indoctrination again. I don't know why.
The mirror effect
The inherently violent person will "see" the Quran as a warriors manual, the confused
person will be confused by it, the non-believer will see it as nonsense, the humble
person will be made content by it. The person in search of salvation can find wisdom
and salvation in its ayats. The tyrant will use it to further his agenda, the believer will
fall prostrate.In other words people according to their subjective conscience and reasoning will see things as they see fit. And this is actually a drawback of the Quran in it's current interpretations. A good person would practice the good teachings and ignore the bad and unjust parts in the Quran, and the one who is prone to violence and fleshly attitude would practice the bad and the unjust and ignore the good teachings. For me I am trying to see it all with an unbiased eye. And getting blamed for that now. It's obvious everybody is steeped in their religious indoctrination in their own way.
Peace.