Do you take the Qur'an literally?
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Are you sure?
Do you "free a slave" when you commit a sin? Ever done so?
And do you hunt when you come out of ihram (at Hajj)? According to the Qur'an we should all hunt when coming out of ihram.
Who does that at Hajj? Ther are many more examples believe me.
Please refer to Ayah and firstly try to understand it yourself. You seem to have erred in understanding or comprehending what is written therein.
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Please refer to Ayah and firstly try to understand it yourself. You seem to have erred in understanding or comprehending what is written therein.
Have to go now, but I assume you know that God tells us to take the women of the enemy during war and make them our concubines (jariah)? Throughout history that is exactly how Muslims understood and applied those Qur'anic verses. It wasn't inhumane, irrational or injust then, but now it would be of course.
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One of the biggest problems I still have is why an atheist who dedicates his whole life to help other people would be thrown in Hell for eternity. That simply doesn't make sense to me whatsoever. But I believe that God is just and that this will not be the case. I know if instead of being born to Turkish parents, I was born in Mexico , I wouldn't have been a Muslim today. There is no question. So just because you were born in Saudi Arabia, Turkey or Pakistan does not and cannot guarantee you a free ticket to Paradise.
In my opinion, a self-declared atheist who dedicates his or her whole life to help others is not a non-believer. I think the "ahira" points to something bigger than our own egoistic strivings, and that includes the humanistic ideals the "atheist" may follow. He or she may as well be "muslim" in the sense of recognizing that we are all part of one wholeness. On the other side, there might be many formal Muslims that don't recognisze this, though I am not the one to judge others.
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Have to go now, but I assume you know that God tells us to take the women of the enemy during war and make them our concubines (jariah)? Throughout history that is exactly how Muslims understood and applied those Qur'anic verses. It wasn't inhumane, irrational or injust then, but now it would be of course.
This is also gossip based statement. Quote the Ayah of Qur'aan which says like that.
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Have to go now, but I assume you know that God tells us to take the women of the enemy during war and make them our concubines (jariah)? Throughout history that is exactly how Muslims understood and applied those Qur'anic verses. It wasn't inhumane, irrational or injust then, but now it would be of course.
Such rulings should be inhumane, irrational and unjust at any point of history. The very concept send fear, shivers and chills throughout me. Which woman would be okay in seeing her father, brother or husband killed and tortured and the same killers or torturers taking her away and having sex with her? And it is not consensual sex, it is rape. So essentially your viewpoints are saying rape was okay back then but not now.
And how on earth could a God sanction this? I know we are used to seeing irrational things asked and propagated by the God in the traditional interpretations of the Quran, but that doesn't mean people need to agree with them, but may just follow the words and "have faith" in them because that's what the scripture says.
Rape is never okay. Against any gender, any time in history. We should have this point cleared before moving on.
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This is also gossip based statement. Quote the Ayah of Qur'aan which says like that.
Please interpret 'Ma malakat aymanukum' in the Quran, in a way that sounds satisfactory for all instances of occurrence of this phrase in the Quran.
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In my opinion, a self-declared atheist who dedicates his or her whole life to help others is not a non-believer. I think the "ahira" points to something bigger than our own egoistic strivings, and that includes the humanistic ideals the "atheist" may follow. He or she may as well be "muslim" in the sense of recognizing that we are all part of one wholeness. On the other side, there might be many formal Muslims that don't recognisze this, though I am not the one to judge others.
Beyond any doubt it's possible for atheists to have humane principles. Though, you speak about "being part of one wholeness" and that's where atheism fails. If a person is a true atheist it implies the idea of that wholeness is not accepted as much as you are trying to represent in your statement. To realize this wholeness one must consider we are all made from stars, big bang, Gods design. Take Gods design out of that equation and there is no big bang, no stars, and no wholeness. So if a true atheist is applying humanistic ideals, one should question why he is doing so. Because rationally from the atheist perspective there is no reason to do so whatsoever. There is no wholeness in atheism, there is only chaos, coincidence and nihilism.
Only God knows what is in people's hearts (true intentions).
ps Science used to be always related to religion. Pondering on the origin of this reality and universe one has to face the God question sooner or later. Someone who is a self-declared atheist has fooled himself to believe science can solve, or has already answered these questions while not touching the subject of God.
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Please interpret 'Ma malakat aymanukum' in the Quran, in a way that sounds satisfactory for all instances of occurrence of this phrase in the Quran.
It is not a phrase; it is a sentence.
Please read the article and favour your comments.
Believing Women taking asylum in Muslim society who are in matrimonial fold of non-believer -
Rape is never okay. Against any gender, any time in history. We should have this point cleared before moving on.
I'm sorry, you are right of course, I was actually wrong about that point. Nowhere in the Qur'an does God actually permit men to use women as sex slaves. But that is how Muslims, Muslim scholars and imams have understood, interpreted and sadly even applied the verses about slavery throughout history. If you notice, the Qur'an is always talking about releasing slaves, treating them fairly, marrying them (another way of granting them freedom) etc.
We may ask why God has not forbidden/abolished slavery altogether, but in my opinion the answer is simple. Slavery was a major aspect of the socio-economic situation at the time. It would have been impossible to outright abolish slavery because the entire socio-economic system depended on it. People even waged wars for slaves. Also, women could not survive on their own so in the aftermath of war, most women actually wanted to become "slaves" themselves. That is the harsh socio-economic reality of the region and of that era in history. We tend to conveniently judge the conditions of 1400 years ago with our current social-economic situation....
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It is not a phrase; it is a sentence.
Please read the article and favour your comments.
Believing Women taking asylum in Muslim society who are in matrimonial fold of non-believerSalam Bro Mazhar,
In the link that you provided, it states "This course of action will diminish the chance regards that you might not sustain the household . "
Your interpolation - , can you show me where in the verse 0403 that states that.
Thank you and Peace
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Salam Bro Mazhar,
In the link that you provided, it states "This course of action will diminish the chance regards that you might not sustain the household . "
Your interpolation - , can you show me where in the verse 0403 that states that.
Thank you and Peace
Salamun alaika, thanks for pointing out.
Firstly an order is given. Then a modification is introduced for those who cannot comply with the command giving them alternate options. A widow can be in two states; she has father-orphan progenies along with her; and she can be all by herself without progeny. Later will cause little financial obligations as compared to first one.
In the last sentence this point is mentioned. Just to let the reader know I have put it in parentheses, it can be removed; even if it is put without parentheses it will not be against the Arabic text since the subjunctive mood verb and it being rectifying clause for some men.What would you advise?
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Peace,
Quran states quite explicitly referring to "mathal" when things are not to be taken literally (as huruf has pointed out). All other instances are to be taken literally.
Unfortunately, in many cases, basic meanings are ignored to the extent that the basic literal meanings of words have been relegated to figurative and derived meanings. By the same token, derived meanings are now commonly accepted as basic, literal meanings.
Studying to understand the basic meanings of the roots of words is only good method when trying to understand a text.
To me, the single biggest stumbling block in understanding quran is the need to have all the answers. It is better to understand a little well, rather than trying to expound on everything in a hurry. You only get out of a text what you put into studying it. I don't see the point of making blanket judgements on a text without studying it's language. This is simply poor method.
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Thanks for posting your link. That's quite a complicated article you have posted. It's quite difficult to understand for a more beginner type person like me. I read the following in your article
'A man already having a wife is under an obligation, for meeting certain situations and circumstances emerging in society, to marry "the woman who was under the control and responsibility of them". The Relative Pronoun refers to "The Woman taken in Wedlock". Therefore, a man might be husband of one Woman , or might have this woman as wife in addition is his earlier wife belonging to family of equivalence.'
There you go, polygamy for "certain conditions" all over again. I wonder if people actually take this seriously. Just sharing my opinion.
Is the same allowed for women as well for "certain conditions"?
Peace.
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Are you sure?
Yes I am sure. Let me insert a line from my post again
Anyone can get guidance from it at anytime if it is approached with a clean slate, without any pre-conceived concepts, tafseers or reasons/incidents for revealing verses etc.Do you "free a slave" when you commit a sin? Ever done so?
Are you approaching Quran with a clean slate?
And do you hunt when you come out of ihram (at Hajj)? According to the Qur'an we should all hunt when coming out of ihram.
You have a pre-conceived concept about the word Hajj and Ihram and hunting.
Who does that at Hajj? There are many more examples believe me.
No I cannot believe you because I am a student of Quran and I do not find any stupidity in it.
During war God tells us to take all the women of the enemy and make them our "Jariyah" (Concubine).
Are you quoting Mullah's interpretation or original words of God?
Do you support that? ISIS does exactly that.
No I do not support any nonsense attributed to God through Mullah's interpretations. ISIS is a not following Quran they follow their Imams. -
There you go, polygamy for "certain conditions" all over again. I wonder if people actually take this seriously. Just sharing my opinion.
Polygamy is a concept to have many wives obviously for personal luxury. Commanding and making it obligatory for people to marry widows and married believing emigrants-wives of non-believers given asylum, if you eqate it with polygamy, I can only lament that you do not reflect upon the propositions that are inherent in words.
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Polygamy is a concept to have many wives obviously for personal luxury.
Meaning of polygamy The condition or practice of having more than one spouse at one time. No reason is specified, which means can be for any reason.
Commanding and making it obligatory for people to marry widows and married believing emigrants-wives of non-believers given asylum, if you eqate it with polygamy, I can only lament that you do not reflect upon the propositions that are inherent in words.
What do you mean, commanding and making it obligatory for people? If it was for single men such a ruling, it would have looked more worthy of God, although the commanding and making obligatory part would still be weird. For a married man, this is an on-the-face disrespectful attitude and a whack to his wife's need for fidelity and exclusiveness from her spouse, that too by a God who put these needs in her in the first place. If this is what the God of the Quran would have commanded, I would have ran away with my husband from this religion to safeguard myself, my children, and even my husband from getting torn apart due to having third-party intruders, with equal status, into our marriage and family. Not just that, grabbed other women and their families too away from such a religion to protect them. The believers can easily build asylums, and women and children shelters, for protection and safeguarding purposes, the men don't need to have a harem each to do the same.
This polygamy situation I have been studying for almost a year now. And discussed with other women in similar situations in this blog mainly
https//polygamy911.wordpress.com/Basically I have realized, two things; one both men and women want the exact same fidelity from each other. Two it doesn't matter for what reason your spouse takes another spouse, it still is extremely hurtful and you can't help but wish the other spouse away. And the strong bond in your marriage earlier would diminish, since at the end marriage is based on love and affection. These "practical life" talk is actually impractical in real life.
Peace.
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Basically I have realized, two things; one both men and women want the exact same fidelity from each other. Two it doesn't matter for what reason your spouse takes another spouse, it still is extremely hurtful and you can't help but wish the other spouse away. And the strong bond in your marriage earlier would diminish, since at the end marriage is based on love and affection. These "practical life" talk is actually impractical in real life.
Peace.
Not all people fill in relationships like that. You are entitled to your own understanding of what a relationship should be for you, but one shouldn't fill that in for others. If some couples don't mind multiple partners, then who are we to say they are not entitled to do so?
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Not all people fill in relationships like that. You are entitled to your own understanding of what a relationship should be for you, but one shouldn't fill that in for others. If some couples don't mind multiple partners, then who are we to say they are not entitled to do so?
If people are fine and happy living polyamorous lifestyles, I am happy for them as well. Only with one condition can this be a truly fulfilling and satisfying alternate lifestyle
Polygamy being a two-way street. In other words, if one partner goes for it (with full permission and knowledge of the other spouse), then his partner has full right to do the same. Otherwise, polygamy being exclusive for only one gender that too which is religiously stated so only has the potential to bring distress and harm.
I am speaking from experience of talking to numerous women personally and reading their stories as well to come to the above conclusion.
Peace.
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If people are fine and happy living polyamorous lifestyles, I am happy for them as well. Only with one condition can this be a truly fulfilling and satisfying alternate lifestyle
Polygamy being a two-way street. In other words, if one partner goes for it (with full permission and knowledge of the other spouse), then his partner has full right to do the same. Otherwise, polygamy being exclusive for only one gender that too which is religiously stated so only has the potential to bring distress and harm.
I am speaking from experience of talking to numerous women personally and reading their stories as well to come to the above conclusion.
Peace.
Only with one condition can this be a truly fulfilling and satisfying alternate lifestyle
=> This simply isn't true. I agree for most of us what you say would be the only valid terms for it, but you are ignoring there are people out there who are an exception to your rule and perfectly happy with it.
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For a married man, this is an on-the-face disrespectful attitude and a whack to his wife's need for fidelity and exclusiveness from her spouse, that too by a God who put these needs in her in the first place. If this is what the God of the Quran would have commanded, I would have ran away with my husband from this religion to safeguard myself, my children, and even my husband from getting torn apart due to having third-party intruders, with equal status, into our marriage and family.
You are not the only woman that Allah the Exalted has created; and you are not the only woman who is the audience of Qur'aan. Moreover, this stance is when you are by His Grace enjoying the company of husband, and you are not the subject of this discourse. The discourse we are discussing is not about you, it is about those women who have already lost their husband and are lonely with or without responsibility of father-orphan sons and daugters.