Want to see a Jinn? Here is some information that might help!
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Yes, but all translations are interpretations. You supplied me with a translation.
Humans are also ethereal beings, but we are assigned to fleshly bodies, which are like a jail. However our soul is abstract and ethereal and once we live no more we free the spirit from the flesh (give up the spirit).
The angels can be assigned to bodies in disguise, but are most likely ethereal (bodyless) when not assigned to a body. If they are fixed beings with bodies and with wings like you say, then this is their physical limitation as well. Their body needs to turn somewhere if they loose their spirit from that shell to disguise themselves in a humanly body. If angels have physical bodies then it is slightly awkward for them to transport themselves and they must obey to the laws of physics.
And in the same kind of translations you provide me with God has a throne and will come to Earth with the angels in swarms at the end of days, according to that interpretation.
But there is a spiritual realm which that you cannot see because you cannot see through this illusion, even if you can acquire knowledge of how things really are. When you die you will see through the illusion. You could not see it because you were locked inside a beast body.
Perceptive enough people may be able to "feel" beyond this illusion though.
If there are evil spirits that are ethereal, they are not the only Jinns in that case. Jinn is a person who is not under the grace of God so to say.
Evil or good spirits do not work the way we understand it and are likely not bound to space or time as to give them a definition as per how we perceive the world.
But angels nor we in the next life will not be restricted by physical bodies. Angels may be a prior kind of souls who have passed another test. The beast you is not really you but only the spiritual part of you is. The beast (physical body) will die and you will attain a spirit form.
If one is wise in this life they begin to separate the spirit from the flesh now already instead of indulging in it, because it seems that the ones who do not manage this have a lesser accommodation than the ones who do. This is JUST an illusion and it will not work this way later. And it is all about spiritual assimilation and to grow spiritually.
Have faith
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Yes, but all translations are interpretations. You supplied me with a translation.
Humans are also ethereal beings, but we are assigned to fleshly bodies, which are like a jail. However our soul is abstract and ethereal and once we live no more we free the spirit from the flesh (give up the spirit).
The angels can be assigned to bodies in disguise, but are most likely ethereal (bodyless) when not assigned to a body. If they are fixed beings with bodies and with wings like you say, then this is their physical limitation as well. Their body needs to turn somewhere if they loose their spirit from that shell to disguise themselves in a humanly body. If angels have physical bodies then it is slightly awkward for them to transport themselves and they must obey to the laws of physics.
And in the same kind of translations you provide me with God has a throne and will come to Earth with the angels in swarms at the end of days, according to that interpretation.
But there is a spiritual realm which that you cannot see because you cannot see through this illusion, even if you can acquire knowledge of how things really are. When you die you will see through the illusion. You could not see it because you were locked inside a beast body.
Perceptive enough people may be able to "feel" beyond this illusion though.
If there are evil spirits that are ethereal, they are not the only Jinns in that case. Jinn is a person who is not under the grace of God so to say.
Evil or good spirits do not work the way we understand it and are likely not bound to space or time as to give them a definition as per how we perceive the world.
But angels nor we in the next life will not be restricted by physical bodies. Angels may be a prior kind of souls who have passed another test. The beast you is not really you but only the spiritual part of you is. The beast (physical body) will die and you will attain a spirit form.
If one is wise in this life they begin to separate the spirit from the flesh now already instead of indulging in it, because it seems that the ones who do not manage this have a lesser accommodation than the ones who do. This is JUST an illusion and it will not work this way later. And it is all about spiritual assimilation and to grow spiritually.
Have faith
Thank you. Why do you think the laws of physics must be obeyed, when the snake was turned into the staff and the angels said Allah only says "Be" and it is? This is all information, it can change easily, the throne can come down, it doesn't mean that anything is necessarily visibly on it. What is an ethereal thing? It is unseen but has some limitations, an invisible set of limitations or "form"? We are just experience, we are "empty" in a sense, there is only the information we are receiving, same as an angel might receive information or a jinn. Just a few months ago you weren't sure about the Jinn, how did you become so sure now that its a reference to a certain kind of disbeliever or whatever, when the Qur'an even mentions believers among them? I'm more concerned about how just a few months ago you were more open seeming and have since strongly decided this thing.
Do you read the Qur'an completely, repeatedly? How do you practice your system? Your ideas at times seem to match up well with certain Gnostic ideas, like the idea of being trapped within a material body while we are ethereal beings, which Yoda says "crude matter" and whatever, but you seem to believe in sciences as if sciences aren't just an illusion as well, that if Allah wills, some information doesn't have to fit neatly into the "laws of physics" which are just laws Allah makes up anyway. The Qur'an repeatedly shows examples of how Allah can defy any such things easily, since its all information which Allah can change in an instant like turning the staff into a snake and the snake into a staff, it was to demonstrate that these things do not have to accord to any system or sciences or laws, the only law is what Allah says to "Be" and it is.
The jinn are mentioned alongside humanity repeatedly, the root of the word comes from "hidden", its the same root used for words like Jannah, implying a "hidden garden" type idea probably.
How is it that these things supposedly made of "smokeless fire" (and what is the point of it mentioning that repeatedly in the Qur'an if they are humans), are mentioned being made before the humankind? Why are they mentioned apart from humankind? Why are you so convinced of your theory? Did you see the videos I posted even? You can even see them in there.
What we are, what everything is, is information, we are experience, we are experiencers of information, whatever information God makes for us is what we "know" and "are", so the ethereal bodies (is there some science regarding them as well?), are they anything if they have no body? They would only be what we are currently, nothing but information input, experiencing information that God is creating for us, whatever it might be.
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I again want to stress how the creation of Jinn and human correlates with the events of big bang. Before helium was formed in the very early beginning after big bang the universe was massively hot. Light was not seperated from matter. In fact matter didn't even exist. In a very short time frame the universe expanded massively and cooled down a little eventually resulting in light being seperated from matter and the formation of atoms.
The background noise scientists measure still today from big bang is an echo from this moment during the big bang. In fact before these atoms were formed the entire universe was transparent. Hidden.
Now compare this to the hidden Jinn being created before material man.
Is it superstitious to believe Jinn are hidden creatures seperate from humans? No, it requires as much superstition as to believe this whole universe at one point was in such a state.
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Please view my earlier post in which I explain this to be a reference to lighter and heavier elements. The smokeless fire being referred to in Quran is of course the early state of the universe after Big Bang, consisting of clouds of gas (hydrogen and helium). By the effects of gravity these clouds formed into stars.
The jinn look like auroras in many ways like the aurora borealis in how they move and appear, but the jinn are not stars if that is what you are suggesting, since they can not even go into the heavens according to the Surah about the Jinn to pry into its secrets when they tried and find that they are in danger there, they are also clearly on Earth awaiting judgment, and can disbelieve while others can believe, while the stars are all obedient to Allah. Iblis is not a star either, he was sent into the world along with humans.
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The jinn look like auroras in many ways like the aurora borealis in how they move and appear, but the jinn are not stars if that is what you are suggesting, since they can not even go into the heavens according to the Surah about the Jinn to pry into its secrets when they tried and find that they are in danger there, they are also clearly on Earth awaiting judgment, and can disbelieve while others can believe, while the stars are all obedient to Allah. Iblis is not a star either, he was sent into the world along with humans.
I am nowhere suggesting Jinn are stars. The only thing I'm saying is this universe at some point was a place that did not have matter. If Jinn existed in that environment which they likely did they must have been made of the same building blocks the universe was made of then. Either deuterium, hydrogen or helium-4. (Note everything is created in pairs - deuterium has a nucleus composed of two particles).
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I am nowhere suggesting Jinn are stars. The only thing I'm saying is this universe at some point was a place that did not have matter. If Jinn existed in that environment which they likely did they must have been made of the same building blocks the universe was made of then. Either deuterium, hydrogen or helium-4. (Note everything is created in pairs - deuterium has a nucleus composed of two particles).
Yeah, that is a fine idea, though I don't think they were created nearly that early though, but maybe.
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Harmony Freedom,
I think I cannot really agree with you on the Jinn root as meaning hidden. is regarded as meaning snake and this is because it has usually seen seen as a 'lowly being' as the letters and mean literally 'lowly entity'.
"Trapped" inside a beast as you say is the general message of both Jesus and Quran. It is of course difficult to comprehend exactly how things work, but it is a sort of spiritual assimilation with what is Allah that is the aim for a person who has grasped the message.
If you mention Gnosticism then you place me in a religion which I am not.
We are information yes, or rather, our physical bodies and everything else in the world we see, is made of energy as its base. If a staff can turn into a snake this is nothing strange since God is in control of the creation.
Have faith
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Harmony Freedom,
I think I cannot really agree with you on the Jinn root as meaning hidden. is regarded as meaning snake and this is because it has usually seen seen as a 'lowly being' as the letters and mean literally 'lowly entity'.
"Trapped" inside a beast as you say is the general message of both Jesus and Quran. It is of course difficult to comprehend exactly how things work, but it is a sort of spiritual assimilation with what is Allah that is the aim for a person who has grasped the message.
If you mention Gnosticism then you place me in a religion which I am not.
We are information yes, or rather, our physical bodies and everything else in the world we see, is made of energy as its base. If a staff can turn into a snake this is nothing strange since God is in control of the creation.
Have faith
Why have so many linguists associated the root or radix of the term Jinn as well as Jannah with "hidden"? What does Jannah have to do with snakes? Are you trying to mix up Nachash from the Bible with Jinn?
What is your objection to the Jinn being a natural being alongside the human race? Why is this a problem? Is it because you haven't seen them or met them personally?
I'm not accusing you of being a Gnostic, its just that the idea of an "ethereal body" or whatever that is within matter is an idea that seems somewhat important in Gnosticism.
Do you perform worship? I'm just curious how you practice your system, if you worship with prostration or at all or what.
I'm also wondering why you've come to these conclusions and what basis you have for what you are saying and also what motivation (like why you particularly don't like the idea).
The root the term jinn is well known among non-muslim linguists to mean "hidden" as well, so this is not some idea coming from Muslims only. Just a few months ago you didn't seem to be so confident on the matter, but now you are spreading the idea very frequently and with lots of confidence, how did that come about?
Snake is a different word, lowly is a different word. Is Jannah lowly somehow? Is Jannah like a snake or a place of snakes?
Regardless of that, the jinn have often been associated with snakes because of their misty form and movement, moving like the aurora at times, like big or little mist snakes or "dragons", nagas, and other things that twirl around and slink, and the "daemons" which are "made of aer" which is basically misty looking stuff in the Roman understanding, appeared heavier than the atmosphere.
They have been referred to throughout the ages, its not some new idea, and yes the people of the world were superstitious, but that does not mean that the creation of the jinn, which the Qur'an says are made of "smokeless fire" and made "before" the "nas" of which "Iblis" was one who even knows and believes in Allah and prayed to Allah so is not "without faith" if by "faith" you mean "belief", since Iblis believes in Allah but he is still a disbeliever in the sense that he lost hope or "despaired" as the root meaning of the word Iblis (balasa) means. He was of the jinn, the jinn who were made before humankind.
Do you read the Qur'an every day or often? Is the Bible very important to you? Arabic didn't derive from Hebrew, and Arabic is considered by some non-muslim linguists to have retained many of the original meanings of words that are found in the Akkadian language and so they look to Arabic often to figure out the root meanings much of the time.
Do you have Edward Lane's lexicon? You should get it, it discusses all the roots and gives huge insight, also to look into the Akkadian language dictionary or lexicon which is available online. It gives lots of insight into words like Muslim, Allah, and whatever, even roots for Jnn or whatever.
Even Nachash, the serpent, can also mean "whisperer", "enchanter", as well as "shining one", besides "snake" which was commonly associated with these creatures around the whole world due to their appearance of being a misty wavering slinking form like the tail often depicted in cartoon genies.
I don't just believe this stuff out of the blue though, and you might be imagining them in a silly way which makes you completely reject the idea of Jinn as being a creature created by Allah, but I showed videos that shows you what they look like, you can see them slinking around in the heat vision camera in one video or doing other things, it isn't even that hard to find them or encounter them, people used to pour out libations for them that they would come to and suck off the fumes. They are not supernatural, they are completely natural, maybe you would believe only if you met one?
Did you not even look at the videos I linked?
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Jinn is a state of soul, like broken and not whole. If as in means intact then means broken/disintegrated.
If it is used to symbolize Heaven then that is likely due to that the chain is broken when you give up the ghost. It is a relief, unless you are destined for Gehenna of course.
A broken soul will remain broken as well and will not have access to the realm which is the real existence. Jesus said that he was come to heal broken souls and not the healthy, and this in reply to the complaints that he invited sinners etc.
And I give a heck in what dictionaries say because I do not follow the words of men but I only do as according to God.
Have faith
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Jinn is a state of soul, like broken and not whole. If as in means intact then means broken/disintegrated.
If it is used to symbolize Heaven then that is likely due to that the chain is broken when you give up the ghost. It is a relief, unless you are destined for Gehenna of course.
A broken soul will remain broken as well and will not have access to the realm which is the real existence. Jesus said that he was come to heal broken souls and not the healthy, and this in reply to the complaints that he invited sinners etc.
And I give a heck in what dictionaries say because I do not follow the words of men but I only do as according to God.
Have faith
Please read the following, yes it does mention some words of men, but then I also show the Qur'an and make clear points
I don't know why you're so confident about this idea that you're spreading it around, because the etymology of the term "gentile" and "gens" from Latin is from a different language family.
Many people make the serious mistake of mixing or connecting unrelated languages and words.
gentile (n.) Look up gentile at Dictionary.com
late 14c., "chivalrous person; member of the nobility;" see gentile (adj.). Also used during 14c. to mean both "one who is not a Christian" and "one who is not a Jew." The Latin word was used in Vulgate to translate Greek ethnikos, from ta ethne "the nations," which translated Hebrew ha goyim "the (non-Jewish) nations."
gentile (adj.) Look up gentile at Dictionary.com
mid-13c., "noble, kind, gracious" (mid-12c. as a surname); late 14c., "of noble rank or birth, belonging to the gentry," from Late Latin gentilis "foreign, heathen, pagan," from Latin gentilis "person belonging to the same family, fellow countryman," from gentilis (adj.) "of the same family or clan," from gens (genitive gentis) "race, clan" (see gentle).The word Goy and Goyim has a totally different etymology and origin, and is totally unconnected to the Latin, but the term was chosen for translations.
Goyim means "nations", the eem makes it plural.
Jinn is from a totally different language family
genie (n.) Look up genie at Dictionary.com
1650s, "tutelary spirit," from French g?nie, from Latin genius (see genius); used in French translation of "Arabian Nights" to render Arabic jinni, singular of jinn, which it accidentally resembled, and attested in English with this sense from 1748.genius (n.) Look up genius at Dictionary.com
late 14c., "tutelary god (classical or pagan)," from Latin genius "guardian deity or spirit which watches over each person from birth; spirit, incarnation, wit, talent;"The term Genius and Jinn are also unconnected, they are from different language families, though both terms refer to the same creatures.
daemon (n.) Look up daemon at Dictionary.com
alternative spelling (in specialized senses) of demon (q.v.). Related Daemonic.
demon (n.) Look up demon at Dictionary.com
c.1200, from Latin daemon "spirit," from Greek daimon "deity, divine power; lesser god; guiding spirit, tutelary deity" (sometimes including souls of the dead); "one's genius, lot, or fortune;" from PIE *dai-mon- "divider, provider" (of fortunes or destinies), from root *da- "to divide" (see tide (n.)).Used (with daimonion) in Christian Greek translations and Vulgate for "god of the heathen" and "unclean spirit." Jewish authors earlier had employed the Greek word in this sense, using it to render shedim "lords, idols" in the Septuagint, and Matt. viii31 has daimones, translated as deofol in Old English, feend or deuil in Middle English. Another Old English word for this was hellcniht, literally "hell-knight."
air (n.1) Look up air at Dictionary.com
c.1300, "invisible gases that make up the atmosphere," from Old French air "atmosphere, breeze, weather" (12c.), from Latin aerem (nominative aer) "air, lower atmosphere, sky," from Greek aer (genitive aeros) "air" (related to aenai "to blow, breathe", of unknown origin, possibly from a base *awer- and thus related to aeirein "to raise" and arteria "windpipe, artery" (see aorta) on notion of "lifting, that which rises." In Homer mostly "thick air, mist;" later "air" as one of the four elements.The Daemons were said to be made of "aer" which in that language meant "thick mist", and that is literally what they look like, you can see for yourself in the videos.
Where do you get your information from? It is mixing etymologies that have nothing to do with each other.
The word Jinn is not etymologically connected to Genius or Daemon but refers to the same thing, while the Latin Gens has nothing to do with the word Goy etymologically, they are from different languages and language families. One is from the "indo-european" language family, and one is from the "semitic" language family.
So can you please tell me where you're getting your information from? The connections you are making do not have an etymological basis. I like the idea you are presenting, it is an interesting idea, but what is it based on? You can't take words from other languages and language families and say they are connected to words from entirely different language families. Lots of people do that though, its a fallacy, its a mistake to do that, just because words sound similar from different language families doesn't mean they are etymologically connected or have the same origin.
Why do you think they are both human, when it lists a bunch of different creatures
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And his hosts of the jinn and the men and the birds were gathered to him, and they were formed into groups.Jinn and the men and the birds, three categories, why are they listed like that? Are the birds also humans in this section, since the bird talks and it says that he could understand the speech of creatures like birds and other animals?
Why is the root, if the root means "faithless" or "snake" or "lowly" as you suggest (with what evidence?) used in the word Jannah, what does Jannah have to do with faithlessness, snakes, or the quality of being degraded?
The root JNN is connected to the words Jinn, Jannah, Janin. Janin means "foetus", the fetus as it is hidden in the womb.
This differentiates it from the Arabic words ?Hadeeqa? and ?Bostan? that have different descriptions and are used for gardens, while Jannah specifically refers to the "Hidden" aspect of the garden, and Jinn are etymologically known by linguists (who are also non-muslim linguists) as "hidden" as well, and the JNN root has this meaning of being hidden.
The term used for faithless people is kaffir, which has a different sense of the term "covered up", which is referenced many times, that their seeing, hearing, and understanding is covered up, while the JNN word means concealment, like being hidden as a fetus hides or is concealed in the womb, that Paradise is hidden from us and hidden from view, hidden in the future.
What is this Hebrew term you keep mentioning "Gens"? Do you think the word Gentile is Hebrew? It isn't Hebrew, it is a translation of the term Goy.
The other form of the Latin Gen, means origination, to beget, like Genesis, Generation, and stuff like that. It still isn't connected to the Semitic language family so has nothing to do with Hebrew or the term Goy.
So do you just get inspired with these ideas and think they are automatically the way it is or do you have some evidence to back up what you are spreading around with so much sudden confidence, when just a few months ago you didn't seem so confident on the matter, so how did you come to decide this thing?
What is the Hebrew word "gens", Latin is from a distinct language family, it is not directly related to Hebrew, but even in Latin the term Genius refers to the same creatures though this is called "accidental" or "coincidence" because the Arabic root JNN and the Latin word Genius come from entirely different language families and are unrelated, and also their meaning is unrelated, since the root JNN means hidden and is well attested among linguists to have this meaning or sense.
Plus, I'm not just making this stuff up, not only is it linguistically real, but I understand why they said the "daemons" were made of "aer" because they actually physically look like that, but they didn't know they were actually made of something described as "smokeless fire" which the Qur'an revealed.
So to recap
I'd like to know where exactly you are getting your information and the back up for it. Do you just follow what you imagine or are you reading it somewhere and have evidence? I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to understand.
What is your objection to this history and idea?
What is the Hebrew word "gens" that you keep mentioning?
Gentile comes from an entirely different language family, it is not a Hebrew word at all, and the term Genesis, Generation, and whatever else have nothing to do with Hebrew, they are from a different language family, called the Indo-European Language Family, not the Semitic Language family, the Semitic language family works differently, all words are based on a three letter radix or root in the Semitic Language family.
The Hebrew, even the Hebrew root "gnn" is the same as the Arabic JNN, and means "to cover" to "hide" to "be hidden".
The idea of "covering" is used in its other sense in the word Kaffir, which means that they are covered up from the truth, from understanding, or that they conceal the truth (or both).
What basis do you have to say Nas, which is well known to refer to the whole human race, are all spiritual? The Qur'an talks about people who do not believe in Allah and never refers to them as Jinn.
Yet, the Jinn believe in Allah, so how can they be called faithless?
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the like of when Satan says unto man, ?Deny the truth!? - but as soon as has denied the truth, says, ?Behold, I am not responsible for thee behold, I fear God, the Sustainer of all the worlds!?3441
They will say Be Thou Glorified. Thou (alone) art our Guardian, not them! Nay, but they worshipped the jinn; most of them were believers in them.5156
I did not create the Jinns and the human beings except for the purpose that they should worship Me(created the faithless to worship him?).Read the Surah about the Jinn, 72
Say It has been revealed to me that a party of the jinn listened, and they said Surely we have heard a wonderful Quran,
Which guideth unto righteousness, so we believe in it and we ascribe no partner unto our Lord
'And Exalted is the Majesty of our Lord He has taken neither a wife nor a son.
Certainly the foolish among us say preposterous things of God.
But we, truly, thought that the humankind, nor the jinn would ever say a lie about God (These are the faithless talking?)
And indeed (O Muhammad) individuals of humankind used to invoke the protection of individuals of the jinn, so that they increased them in revolt against Allah);(This is well attested to, this was a practice of people around the world, they are called Shin in Japan, from another coincidental unrelated language root from the Chinese term jinn).
They thought, as you did, that God would never raise up anyone from the dead.
And that we sought to touch the heaven but we found it filled (with) guards severe, and flaming fires.
And we used to sit on places (high) therein to listen. But he who listeneth now findeth a flame in wait for him; (these are humans?)
And that we know not whether evil is meant for those who are on earth or whether their Lord means to bring them good
And among us there are righteous folk and among us there are far from that. We are sects having different rules.(Righteous folk, and disbelievers being made distinct here, "We (The Jinn Race) are sects having different rules" Why exactly is the Qur'an giving this person a whole Surah to talk in as if this would impress anyone unless its talking about some other beings of which people have little knowledge?)
And we know that we cannot escape from Allah in the earth, nor can we escape by flight. (The faithless know this? Oh yeah? Might you consider that your inspiration on this matter, of which you were not so sure a few months ago, might be not be accurate?)
Hence, as soon as we heard this guidance, we came to believe in it and he who believes in his Sustainer need never have fear of loss or injustice.
"'Yet that among us are such as have surrendered themselves to God - just as there are among us such as have abandoned themselves to wrongdoing. Now as for those who surrender themselves to Him - it is they that have attained to consciousness of what is right;(WHAT? THE "FAITHLESS" ARE MUSLIMS!? WOW! Do you see that your understanding does not really make much sense anymore? Is it a matter of pride now? Don't let it be! Here is another translation of that 7214 And that we, among us (are) Muslims and among us (are) unjust. And whoever submits, then those have sought (the) right path.)
but as for those who abandon themselves to wrongdoing - they are indeed but fuel for hell!?"
If they are steadfast on the path , We shall provide them with abundant water,
so as to test them by this means for he who shall turn away from the remembrance of his Sustainer, him will He cause to undergo suffering most grievous.
And the places of worship are only for Allah, so pray not unto anyone along with Allah.
And when the slave of Allah stood up in prayer to Him, they densely crowded on him, almost stifling. (if this is still talking about the jinn, then it is talking about how the mist came around him almost stifling his breathing with the dense mist, and if you've encountered jinn you wouldn't doubt this, its just a matter of fact thing, but because you haven't recognized or dealt with jinn, that doesn't mean you must reject their existence.)
Say "I invoke my Sustainer alone, for I do not ascribe divinity to anyone beside Him."
Say "Verily, it is not in my power to cause you harm or to endow you with consciousness of what is right."
Say "Verily, no one could ever protect me from God, nor could I ever find a place to hide from Him
"Unless I proclaim what I receive from Allah and His Messages for any that disobey Allah and His Messenger,- for them is Hell they shall dwell therein for ever."
Until when they see what they are threatened with, then shall they know who is weaker in helpers and fewer in number.
Say "I do not know whether that of which you were forewarned is near, or whether my Sustainer has set for it a distant term."
(He is) the Knower of the Unseen, and He revealeth unto none His secret, (Unseen is a different word here, the Jinn are totally visible to people if you know what to recognize).
Save unto every messenger whom He hath chosen, and then He maketh a guard to go before him and a guard behind him
That He may know that they have indeed conveyed the messages of their Lord. He surroundeth all their doings, and He keepeth count of all things.
Muslim Jinn, Jinn being worshiped (as they were and have been throughout the world), Jinn touching the sky but being harassed by radiation or flames. These are the "faithless" of old? These are "snakes" or "lowly"? It is some point of interest that the Jinn should talk so much about themselves "we are of differing sects" as if that is some news to people? The jinn made before humankind yet are humankind?
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Verily We created man of potter's clay of black mud altered,1527
And the jinn We created before, of intensely hot fire.
Are you still going to deny all this?
Are you going to turn away from all this in favor of your own idea which does not have any strong basis?
What is the Hebrew word Gens? Do you know that the Latin language and the Hebrew language are unrelated from different language families?
Will you deny that the words Jinn and Gentile have nothing to do with each other and are from entirely different language families?
Will you keep to your theory even when it says of the jinn there are Muslims in contrast to disbelieving jinn?
I mean there is so much, why would you continue to resist? Is it just because you haven't seen jinn? I showed links to videos which show you what they look like. Do you really need to encounter them yourself in order to believe in their existence? They are creatures, jinn, men, birds. They were made before humans and made from a different material, we are made of mud, they are made of fire, this was the whole argument of Iblis who was a jinn, he existed before Adam, was Iblis a human who existed before Adam and claimed to be made of fire while he is made of mud? What are you talking about? The Qur'an says the jinn were made before humans and were made of fire while the humans were made of mud, and that is why Iblis existed before Adam, the Qur'an remains consistent on the matter, your theory doesn't seem to match up (it is a good idea, an interesting theory, but it doesn't fit properly).
There is not Hebrew word Gentile, the word Gentile is not a Hebrew word, the word Goy is not connected to the root GNN in Hebrew which is the same as JNN, both mean Hidden, and Gentile has nothing to do with that word because its from a different language and was meant to be a translation of the word Goyim used by Jews to refer to all the "nations".
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No no no Freedom. Jews say Gen and Gentile about non-Jews. I know my lesson and it is Hebrew we are talking about.
Goy is another word the Jews used and should not be confused with this one. I think if I remember it is right that they refer to an idiolator that way.
Jinn is derived from the same language family and it refers to a person who is faithless. It is only that fools got confused about it.
Jinn is no invisible being but it is simply a faithless person who is not sanctioned/blessed by God.
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Let me paste an earlier draft
Jinn is related to the Hebrew Gen which was Gens in Latin and Gentile in English. It is basically a word to refer to a person who is faithless and as arrogant as Jews were it came to refer to anyone who was not Jewish.
If dictionaries say otherwise you can either put your faith in them or me.
If Naas and Jinn occurs together as seeming like separate living beings it is because Naas is a person with spirit whereas the Jinn is faithless. But both are humans physically as far as your very eyes can see.
Compare that to the narrative about Solomon and the jinn who says he can bring the rule of the queen before Solomon stands up while the one blessed with knowledge says he can bring it to him in the blink of an eye. Both the jinn and the one with knowledge is a human.
And Kaffir does not mean cover up or hide but it means to produce. Usual context it means to fabricate.
Have faith
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Let me paste an earlier draft
Jinn is related to the Hebrew Gen which was Gens in Latin and Gentile in English. It is basically a word to refer to a person who is faithless and as arrogant as Jews were it came to refer to anyone who was not Jewish.
If dictionaries say otherwise you can either put your faith in them or me.
If Naas and Jinn occurs together as seeming like separate living beings it is because Naas is a person with spirit whereas the Jinn is faithless. But both are humans physically as far as your very eyes can see.
Compare that to the narrative about Solomon and the jinn who says he can bring the rule of the queen before Solomon stands up while the one blessed with knowledge says he can bring it to him in the blink of an eye. Both the jinn and the one with knowledge is a human.
And Kaffir does not mean cover up or hide but it means to produce. Usual context it means to fabricate.
Have faith
Jinn and Man can't be the same creation because they were created at different times. Jinn before Man. Saying Jinn is man contradicts those verses.
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No no no Freedom. Jews say Gen and Gentile about non-Jews. I know my lesson and it is Hebrew we are talking about.
Goy is another word the Jews used and should not be confused with this one. I think if I remember it is right that they refer to an idiolator that way.
Jinn is derived from the same language family and it refers to a person who is faithless. It is only that fools got confused about it.
Jinn is no invisible being but it is simply a faithless person who is not sanctioned/blessed by God.
Gentile is not a Jewish word, its a translation of the Jewish word Goyim. I even showed you above.
Latin and Greek is not from the same language family as Arabic/Hebrew/Aramaic/Akkadian/Chaldean/Amharic.
Jews use the word Gentile today when speaking English, but it is not a Jewish or Hebrew word, it is a translation of the word Goyim. This is well known and well attested to, do you think I'm just brazenly making this stuff up in order to contradict you? I am not trying to argue with you, I'm trying to tell you very well known and basic things so that you don't spread information that is inaccurate or incorrect.
Did you completely skip all that I wrote above or skip a large portion of it? How can you continue to say this thing when I showed you the Qur'an verses that say that among jinn there are those who are believing Muslims?
GNN is the Jewish radix, its the same as JNN, and both of them mean "hidden". Jinn are not invisible, I agree.
Goyim means the "nations". The other term used for "pagans" is "uncircumcized" which is "arel". Goyim became commonly used to refer to all the unbelieving nations, but the term itself means "the nations" and things like that.
Why not just find me the evidence for what you are saying? Find me this word "Gen" in the Hebrew language that you might remember seeing.
Also, please be so kind and do me the great service of actually very slowly reading my post to you, the one before this one where I explain things extensively and type out the Surah about the Jinn, and read it as many times as it might take if possible, and then tell me how your theory fits and with what basis after all the evidence I provide, you can maintain this theory, and then if you can please produce your sensible evidence and counter each of my points, I'd really appreciate it, because if I'm wrong, I certainly don't wish to be wrong, so it would be wonderful if you could help me to understand.
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You can ignore the following Man of Faith, but I hope you find the time to answer my other questions and actually read what I wrote in the earlier post if possible, the following is just some stuff I posted in another forum regarding the jinn too
"Awesome! I might only put a little salt towards the "interdimensional" thing, since one can easily go to lots of places here to find them and they are like us in the sense of being earthly, "mortal", they can be killed and harmed, they also ingest things to survive like we do, except we eat solid foods generally and liquids, and they suck on gasses and fumes, particularly flammable ones like methane and alcohol fumes and whatever other chemicals and gasses."
"Yeah, I agree with the "ghost" stuff and dead ancestor stuff and all that, but the only difference here is the thing about the other dimensions. Knowing and dealing with jinn directly, there may not even be any other "dimensions" and they do not appear to have access to anything other than this dimension, so I'm not sure what that term means, since they are totally real creatures, that can be found here, that can't escape to another dimension or anything (and the existence of other dimensions is just adding or complicating matters, and I think many people who use the term don't consider occam's razor or mean some kind of "realm" that is different, but there is no such "realm", they live here and you can even find where they live, since they are in just about every local forest, underground caverns, and whatever else, even underwater sometimes.
They can't go through walls like people think, when they approach a wall and appear to disappear they are actually dispersing their form and spreading their mist like membrane thin which makes them difficult to see or realize, and they seep through cracks and other things.
You can also read the writings of a recluse Christian Saint who was dealing with them and mentions how they seep through cracks, though I'm not relying on sources for my information, they only confirm what I know based on real dealings and encounters.
So everything is fine except the necessity for the "realm" or "other dimension". They are 3d, they exist in this dimension, this world, this planet, and have certain abilities, all of which are natural and based on what they are and are made of (real material).
So the place where everyone goes a little wrong in my opinion is adding the "inter dimensions" thing, as if they are imagining some "world of jinn" or "dimension of jinn" and there is no such place, they share the Earth with human beings, and live in the secluded places of the Earth much of the time. The jinn are mentioned in the Bible as well, and throughout history they were generally understood to be connected to this planet, this sky, and this idea of other dimensions is relatively new.
Their ability to move things is a physical ability, they aren't in another place moving things, but actually present when they are moving things, and can be seen physically with normal vision and with heat vision.
They can travel into the sky or into water based on what they are made of, they are made of a fine material and their membrane has electromagnetic qualities but all these things are in this world, this dimension, they are physically real beings that have no supernatural or spiritual realm or component. They don't feed off "energies" or anything like that, they literally suck gas and fumes which are their form of calories, and they can not eat solid food, so would require "burnt offerings" and stuff like that, but if anything they descend to suck fine elements of things though they can not gulp things like humans do (hungry ghosts, like the Buddhists say).
So everything is fine, its just that the idea of "realms" or "dimensions" and some "dimension" which they have all to themselves is where people are just imagining or making up things with no real necessary justification. They travel around for food, they sleep, they speak the languages of whatever communities they live in (they don't have one united opinion, one united language, so when the guy says "what they call themselves is unknown", they call themselves all kinds of things, because they are of diverse opinions, cultures, and communities, just like humans, except they don't wear clothes, but they do speak different languages, but not all the languages, a jinn in Arabia is likely to speak Arabic, a jinn from America now speaks English, and stuff like that, though a jinn from France could have grown up in a french speaking community. They can be physically recorded, their speech is real and not psychic, they whisper into the ears of some people they are accompanying, its almost sub audible at times but can be recorded with recording devices, but if they speak loud enough or make a loud enough noise, which might take some effort, then all can hear them clear as day.
So the term "dimensions" here needs to be explained as to what it means, because they don't have a realm all to themselves, they are 3d, physical beings, belonging to the same 3d realm we belong to, they are made of matter which exists in this 3d realm, and there is not necessarily any realm we know of or have any access to besides this 3d realm, so I'm not sure what everyone means by "inter dimensions" or what they imagine "dimensions" are, since we are in a 3 dimensional plane of existence, and they are as well, and the supremacist jinn are the ones who despise humanities reign on Earth, which they wanted to reign on. They don't reign in some other realm and are just greedy for Earth too, its because Earth is their home and they wanted to be the rulers of it and not have the humans made rulers of it. It isn't that they have all the planets of the world and just want this planet too, they are connected strongly to Earth, they require elements that are found on Earth, and all that, same as humans in that sense.
They can't be in one place and then another simultaneously, they can travel extremely fast but as far as I can tell they can not be two places at once or instantly skip over to another part of the world regardless of how incredibly fast they move, they can't tele-port, they have to actually move to go places, they have to actually use force to pick up objects or push them.
They are adept at seduction and whispering suggestion to people quietly at times, and can also possibly influence people while they are sleeping through whispering to them which does not definitely always work as they wish, but at most they can come to a persons ear and sub audibly say "dog" and the person might imagine a "dog" and not know why, but those who communicate, largely communicate without any agenda greater than simply getting beers or getting stuff opened up so that they can suck off the fumes and vapors for their own sustenance.
Some Satanists and Witches deal with real jinn, as they have throughout the ages, while others just imagine things and have never encountered or dealt with real jinn or know that they are real physical beings, 3 dimensional like us.
So that is my only issue with people sometimes is that they use the word dimension in a strange way, and seem to believe in some other dimension where there are only 3 dimensions, the 4th is often called "time" and stuff, yet when people use the word dimension they are often meaning some other reality entirely, some world that belongs to jinn or whatever, but again the jinn can not travel through time, they live through the ages, they die, they are not immortal or time travelers, they have children and procreate. Iblis is able to live long because of his prayer being answered by God to be sustained until the day of judgment, the other jinn have lived and died throughout the ages.
The events of Eden were not in another dimension, they occurred right on Earth. They literally live in caverns, forests, hollow trees, possibly ocean caves (I'm not sure if they can remain underwater indefinitely or need to come up, I am only really familiar with the jinn living in places with the normal atmosphere but know that they can deep sea dive and go through the water as they frequently do and go pretty high up into the sky and atmosphere and possibly some degree of space but often need to descend rapidly to either refuel or for the atmosphere or something, but they are able to plum the depths of the Earth and go deep into caverns and explore and really they have no need to be so cranky since they can really do much more than humans naturally, except the supremacists think that because of their being "superior" in those senses and made of a different material that they should be the rightful rulers of Earth, and Iblis fell into despair or lost hope when he saw that Mankind was given the Kingship or Viceroy position not the Jinn. Not all Jinn are angry about this, and some jinn might even be very friendly with humans.
There are also some charlatan jinn, who would hide in and around idols to suck up offerings, and do other tricks to make people believe things that weren't true and receive food and libations poured out and sacrifices where they would feed off the fumes that come when a thing is rotting.
They seem to like blood as well and may be sucking something out of that in a very fine way, since the Hindus have some celebration where they mass murder thousands upon thousands of goats and leave their poured out blood and corpses everywhere and one can physically see the jinn descend upon it like a mist and begin feasting. So there is nothing at all supernatural or magical about them, they are completely natural, hungry, creatures, animals in a sense like us, though they are not related to us very closely, their creation is different from all the carbon based creatures. They are the "ghosts" but certainly not dead or magical, when they hit solid surfaces they disperse, and if you feel them hit, its like a cold blast when they disperse like if they impact your body, which may be super hot even, but it feels like that sharp cold of something super hot or super cold. I've been impacted by little jellyfish like ones and they do not go "through" a person, but just dissipate their membrane and lose their "shape" and become difficult to see when they are not compressed. Oh, they also seem to be effected by temperature and all normal things."
"I'm trying to find out again, since it had a pretty cool description that seemed accurate about how they seeped through the cracks and things and were complaining about the saint invading their territory and asking what right he has to come to dessert and bother them in their homes lol. I mean all I'm finding are the writings of Athanasius on St. Anthony the Great but I'm not sure if that is the one or if there was another one which particularly had these interesting details which match up with reality.
The daemons were said to be made of "aer", which meant "thick mist" and that is because of how they appear, but they didn't know that they were actually made out of essential plasma.
The Theosophists call Sanat Kumara and his gang of jinn "Lords of the Flame" as well, and claim they are from the planet Venus (Lucifer/Morning Star), but that isn't necessarily true at all, but just a way to neatly make a reference to the term Lucifer since that was the word for the morning star which is the planet Venus. The story of Sanat Kumara tells the story of Satan, but in a different light, where Satan is talked about as a compassionate one who left the council to descend upon Earth in order to help save humanity (lol).
The Yezidi have their book of Satan, who they call Melek Taus, and it is often looked at by Theistic Satanists.
These things do not provide real insight into the jinn though. The Qur'an provides the best clues, and other good clues are in the Secret Commonwealth book, but people can have all kinds of weird ideas about them still despite.
Even people who have encountered them may make up things about them or be told false things.
They are entirely natural, they live in the world in places that are usually not inhabited by humans, but sometimes they live in houses or visit them or buildings, but most of them live out of the way in forests, caves, mountains, valleys, all kinds of places in this spacious Earth where humans don't go and bother them and where there is food nearby, which for them are gasses from decay generally, possibly natural gasses as well, so they hang out around swamps as well.
They look like mist or misty forms that retain a certain shape, almost like the stereotypical kind of sheet ghost idea, they look like mist that weirdly retains a kind of shape and doesn't move like normal mist or separate out normally, and if agitated they can look more blustery and cloudy, they can condense into an orb and can also become luminescent but that burns calories, so generally they are just a relaxed form floating around searching for food to suck.
They talk, and they speak whatever language they know, like English or whatever, and can be heard, often they are said to sound like children, I guess it might be hard for them to produce loud sounds, but they can manage to shriek and shout and roar viciously and things like that in order to send people flying in fear.
They are fragile, in the sense that they can be harmed by physical things, but they are extremely pliable and flexible, but generally they stay away from people and stay relatively high up, so when they sneak into houses they stick to the ceilings generally and seep around and can be seen in the light, one might see a strange mist gathered or moving around wherein if one looks closely it looks like little particles or static on a tv screen almost within the mist.
They are often excited by events in the sky and among the stars, and they can also appear like stars, for example I once saw one that looked like it was a star until it started to move and spin around in circles crazily and then zoom down towards the Earth in a blue streak (meaning it was descending in altitude, if it was a red streak it would be ascending, that is called Red Shift I think). This is mentioned in the Qur'an, that some of them like to sit up high in the sky in order to "listen" or gain information of what is coming to Earth like signals and stuff. They can't stay there for long though, as they need to descend and "eat" and whatever and it might burn lots of energy to stay up there, especially to be luminescent if they have to be in order to maintain their position or whatever they might be doing.
I've directly dealt with and encountered them and that is why I'm so confident about what I am saying and why no weird ideas can phase me in the matter, because I totally know them personally. They aren't imaginary or hallucinatory and I show the videos that show they can be seen by anyone and are visible to the naked eye.
A good example of some are
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugaar
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mari_%28goddess%29
They live everywhere though.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will-o%27-the-wisp
This phenomenon was also generally jinn congregations
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Hunt
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...lvalek.jpg
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elf#Scandinavia
" Chinese shen "spirit; etc." is a loanword in East Asian languages. "
You see that they "flatten the grass" they move over in one of the videos I posted when they were fleeing, but they likewise can flatten grass in elaborate ways, so some of the old crop circles may have been this, or "faerie circles" which were areas discovered that would have flattened grass as described in the Scandinavian Elf folklore as well.
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRndo7F6vA0
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M6vP8-SbU0
Such things, if they really are made by them, may have some ceremonial purpose, like a wedding celebration or something else, and these sorts of large things that can only be seen properly from the sky are generally for them to see and enjoy. Crop circles are often made by people though so one need not be too fussed by it. It should also be noted that if the video is true, the flying ones may not be the ones doing the work, but there may be others pushing the things down with pressure that are not illuminated in the condensed orb form. The work of Solomon is thought to be assisted by jinn as well."
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Interesting post FreedomStands though I would never go as far as to attribute properties to Jinn or identify them in different cultural folklore. I don't do this for different reasons. I accept Jinn are a creation just like man, different in nature but altogether natural in evolutionary terms. Quran does not tell us much else about Jinn or how we can observe/study them. When we want to study this topic outside Quran we are entering the domains of occultism, esotericism. These are grounds I stay away from for good reason.
In my understanding there is no need to study Jinn. This is not the point why we are here. Just like mankind the jinns life in this universe is a trial. We will all return at some point and we will only be responsible for our own actions. When Jinn are mentioned in the Quran it tells us a lot about creation (big bang) and the last day. We know at least one malaikum has his bets on the Jinn and not on mankind. This should encourage us to finish first despite what obstacles we meet.
Ignoring Jinn are a different living creation than minkind is a shame though. The analogy of the hidden being formed first in the events after big bang and the material only later is present in Quran and one of its descriptions I admire greatly. It is one of those verses that convinced me Islam is a system of faith that is one step ahead of science always.
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Interesting post FreedomStands though I would never go as far as to attribute properties to Jinn or identify them in different cultural folklore. I don't do this for different reasons. I accept Jinn are a creation just like man, different in nature but altogether natural in evolutionary terms. Quran does not tell us much else about Jinn or how we can observe/study them. When we want to study this topic outside Quran we are entering the domains of occultism, esotericism. These are grounds I stay away from for good reason.
In my understanding there is no need to study Jinn. This is not the point why we are here. Just like mankind the jinns life in this universe is a trial. We will all return at some point and we will only be responsible for our own actions. When Jinn are mentioned in the Quran it tells us a lot about creation (big bang) and the last day. We know at least one malaikum has his bets on the Jinn and not on mankind. This should encourage us to finish first despite what obstacles we meet.
Ignoring Jinn are a different living creation than minkind is a shame though. The analogy of the hidden being formed first in the events after big bang and the material only later is present in Quran and one of its descriptions I admire greatly. It is one of those verses that convinced me Islam is a system of faith that is one step ahead of science always.
Thank you for your comment! I agree that learning about the jinn is not really necessary or important, but my posts are meant to give people confidence about their existence so that they don't stray into thinking that they aren't real. The occultists often imagine they are trying to deal with them, but often they are not even dealing with anything but their own imagination. When it comes to real jinn, they are very real, and when one has encountered them in multiple ways then one knows about them and isn't really confused about what is being talked about.
Such study is not important at all though, but just to know that the jinn are mentioned in relatively the same way across the whole world, and the accounts often match exactly how they really are, though often, even in the past, people would apparently embellish or imagine strange things and attribute supernatural aspects to it, while others used to discuss them as entirely natural and without superstitious imaginings.
I agree with you and the jinn also seem to like to associate themselves with star material and consider themselves in ways like that at times, and in a sense all life is connected to star material supposedly, but the jinn are likely mixed in their nature just as we have more to our elemental composition than just "mud", but that our basic material is carbon matter while their basic material is "flame of fire" which is "plasma" by definition.
I wouldn't trust any of these accounts or be able to sort truth from fiction except that I've dealt with jinn personally and with witnesses and photographs and everything, so to me its just a matter of letting people know, and its also how I can sort easily between silly stories and those that match how they really are. It could be that what I've dealt with personally are not "jinn" but something else, and that the "jinn" are the "faithless" as Man of Faith says or "imaginary beings" as others say, but what I'm discussing and calling "jinn" are what I've actually dealt with and are entirely real, a type of creature that people are not too familiar with but were much more familiar to people in the past and were described more accurately at the times in the past.
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Peace
Allah speaks of the Jinn.
Recall that we directed a number of jinns to you, in order to let them hear the Quran.
When they got there, they said, "Listen." As soon as it was over, they rushed to their people, warning.They said, "O our people, we have heard a book that was revealed after Moses, and confirms
the previous scriptures. It guides to the truth; to the right path."O our people, respond to the call of GOD, and believe in Him. He will then forgive your sins,
and spare you a painful retribution."So what do you think of these ayats?
God bless
peace
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Peace
Allah speaks of the Jinn.
Recall that we directed a number of jinns to you, in order to let them hear the Quran.
When they got there, they said, "Listen." As soon as it was over, they rushed to their people, warning.They said, "O our people, we have heard a book that was revealed after Moses, and confirms
the previous scriptures. It guides to the truth; to the right path."O our people, respond to the call of GOD, and believe in Him. He will then forgive your sins,
and spare you a painful retribution."So what do you think of these ayats?
God bless
peace
Thank you for your question. This is what I think
638
There is not an animal in the earth, nor a flying creature flying on two wings, but they are peoples like unto you. We have neglected nothing in the Book (of Our decrees). Then unto their Lord they will be gathered.They are not humans generally understood to be humans, but a race of creatures, like the birds are a race of creatures, the trees are a race of creatures, etc .
"to their folk" can be another translation. The Qur'an says they have among them Muslims as well as disbelievers and various opinions or sects just like people do.
They are different from humans in what they are made of and their appearance, and they differ from all carbon based lifeforms since they are made of "smokeless flame" which is today known as "plasma" essentially while we are made of "mud", though of course, just like we are not made entirely of "mud" but are mixed with other components, they too are likely to be mixed rather than pure flame (plasma is ionized gas, flame and lightning are plasma).
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Thank you for your question. This is what I think
638
There is not an animal in the earth, nor a flying creature flying on two wings, but they are peoples like unto you. We have neglected nothing in the Book (of Our decrees). Then unto their Lord they will be gathered.They are not humans generally understood to be humans, but a race of creatures, like the birds are a race of creatures, the trees are a race of creatures, etc. I hope I don't sound harsh.
Peace FreedomStands
Thank you for taking time to reply.
There is nothing in these ayats that indicate anything other than what it says, i.e.,
Recall that we directed a number of jinns to you, in order to let them hear the Quran.
When they got there, they said, "Listen." As soon as it was over, they rushed to their people, warning.They said, "O our people, we have heard a book that was revealed after Moses, and confirms
the previous scriptures. It guides to the truth; to the right path."O our people, respond to the call of GOD, and believe in Him. He will then forgive your sins,
and spare you a painful retribution."Forgive the sins of sheep?
And when I add Sura Al Jinn
"'Some of us are righteous, and some are less than righteous; we follow various paths.
Some birds are not righteous and other birds no so!
"'We knew full well that we can never run away from GOD on earth; we can never run away and escape.
"'When we heard the guidance, we believed therein. Anyone who believes in his Lord will never
fear any injustice, nor any affliction."'Among us are the submitters, and among us are the compromisers.'" As for those who
submitted, they are on the right path.I don't think there are compromisers among cattle.
As for the compromisers, they will be fuel for Gehenna.
Quran states that humans and jinns can end up in hell not buffalo.
If they remain on the right path, we will bless them with abundant water.
We will surely test them all. As for him who disregards the message of his Lord, He will direct
him to ever increasing retribution.The places of worship belong to GOD; do not call on anyone else beside GOD.
Also I think is more like community and not like people the way you
have translated in 6/38.God bless you
peace