Christians will be punished and are wicked???...

Man_of_Faith

Harmony be with you sushi,

Regarding the Christian dogma and doctrine; it is just what it says, i.e. dogma. Christian people are simply so brainwashed so no other alternative emerges in their brains and they trust the clerics who stand for these claims regarding Jesus. They accept because the grand majority of people who adhere to this faith/religion acknowledges Jesus as the literal son of God more than any own rational thinking.

It is difficult to judge whether these Christians will go to Hell, but it should also be noted that mainstream interpretations of Quran carry a huge quantity of errors. Not because the original Arabic is changed, but because apparently someone or some people could not interpret it properly in the past.

Christians are wrong about their faith on the matter of Jesus' relationship to God. An expression that caused people to be confused is "I am in the Father and the Father is in me", which should rather be understood as "I am in the Creator and the Creator is in me", as according to the Quranic teaching of spiritual assimilation with God. Jesus avoided using the word God for a solid reason and that is to remove emphasis on the stereotypical image of God. The claims by Jesus in the Biblical Gospels are generally authentic, but are lacking in the way they are interpreted. God IS technically the father of Jesus since he has no other father and it was the Holy Spirit who shaped the fetus of Jesus in Mary's body.

However as you see that Quran says "son of Mary" is rhetorical and it wishes to draw the attention away from the error in understanding that Jesus is more son of God than any other person who has spiritual ascension. Son is a poor term probably but the real intention in the text should have been "Creator and Creation". When God allegedly speaks down from Heaven in the Bible it is probably supposed to say "this is my creation in which I am pleased".

Have faith

FreedomStands

Harmony be with you sushi,

Regarding the Christian dogma and doctrine; it is just what it says, i.e. dogma. Christian people are simply so brainwashed so no other alternative emerges in their brains and they trust the clerics who stand for these claims regarding Jesus. They accept because the grand majority of people who adhere to this faith/religion acknowledges Jesus as the literal son of God more than any own rational thinking.

It is difficult to judge whether these Christians will go to Hell, but it should also be noted that mainstream interpretations of Quran carry a huge quantity of errors. Not because the original Arabic is changed, but because apparently someone or some people could not interpret it properly in the past.

Christians are wrong about their faith on the matter of Jesus' relationship to God. An expression that caused people to be confused is "I am in the Father and the Father is in me", which should rather be understood as "I am in the Creator and the Creator is in me", as according to the Quranic teaching of spiritual assimilation with God. Jesus avoided using the word God for a solid reason and that is to remove emphasis on the stereotypical image of God. The claims by Jesus in the Biblical Gospels are generally authentic, but are lacking in the way they are interpreted. God IS technically the father of Jesus since he has no other father and it was the Holy Spirit who shaped the fetus of Jesus in Mary's body.

However as you see that Quran says "son of Mary" is rhetorical and it wishes to draw the attention away from the error in understanding that Jesus is more son of God than any other person who has spiritual ascension. Son is a poor term probably but the real intention in the text should have been "Creator and Creation". When God allegedly speaks down from Heaven in the Bible it is probably supposed to say "this is my creation in which I am pleased".

Have faith

Please read all of the following, from the bottom up if you will. It clearly shows that God is the one doing it all, all of it is from God, nothing at all is not God's doing, nothing at all is not caused by God, God is doing every single bit of it, even if a person imagines it is themselves it is really God doing it. These verses demonstrate that. You will see it is God who makes people believe, God who makes people disbelieve, God who deforms people, God who burns them, God is responsible for all bad things, God is responsible for all good things, God is the one doing every single aspect, everything that happens is what God is doing, if a person believes and does good it is by God alone making them do it, and if God hardens a person they can never believe, God sends all our thoughts, all delusions, everything is from God alone. Everything means everything (it does not mean some things, or exclude some things like your thoughts or your will or your decisions or your actions, it means everything absolutely), even your so-called will, even your thoughts are manipulated and at the mercy of God, your life, your death, your conduct, every single thing and I have shown you here many verses confirming this from just this Scripture, all the other scriptures also say this. Please read the following completely and with an open mind to make sure your theology falls into place with the scripture, it will give you a scarier and greater realization of what is happening and make you a better devotee of God I think if you are allowed to understand it

2 Corinthians 121
Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us,
1 Corinthians 18
He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Matthew 44
Jesus answered, "It is written 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Exodus 411
The LORD said to him, "Who gave human beings their mouths? Who makes them deaf or mute? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? Is it not I, the LORD?
Romans 919
Well then, you might say, "Why does God blame people for not responding? Haven't they simply done what he makes them do?"
Job 912
If he snatches away, who can stop him? Who can say to him, 'What are you doing?'
Daniel 435
All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him "What have you done?"
2 Thessalonians 211
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
2 Thessalonians 211
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
Judges 923
God stirred up animosity between Abimelek and the citizens of Shechem so that they acted treacherously against Abimelek.
Ezekiel 149
"'And if a prophet is deceived into giving a message, it is because I, the LORD, have deceived that prophet. I will lift my fist against such prophets and cut them off from the community of Israel.
1 Kings 2223
"So now the LORD has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."
2 Chronicles 1822
"So now the LORD has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."
Isaiah 4513
I will raise up Cyrus in my righteousness I will make all his ways straight. He will rebuild my city and set my exiles free, but not for a price or reward, says the LORD Almighty."
Isaiah 4611
From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do.
Isaiah 4815
I, even I, have spoken; yes, I have called him. I will bring him, and he will succeed in his mission.
Lamentations 115
"The Lord has rejected all the warriors in my midst; he has summoned an army against me to crush my young men. In his winepress the Lord has trampled Virgin Daughter Judah.
Romans 124
For this reason, God delivered them to sexual impurity as they followed the lusts of their hearts and dishonored their bodies with one another.
Romans 126
This is why God delivered them over to degrading passions. For even their females exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
Romans 128
And because they did not think it worthwhile to acknowledge God, God delivered them over to a worthless mind to do what is morally wrong.
Job 2316
"It is God who has made my heart faint, And the Almighty who has dismayed me,
Isaiah 457
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
2 Kings 1925
"'Have you not heard? Long ago I ordained it. In days of old I planned it; now I have brought it to pass, that you have turned fortified cities into piles of stone.
Isaiah 4711
Disaster will come upon you, and you will not know how to conjure it away. A calamity will fall upon you that you cannot ward off with a ransom; a catastrophe you cannot foresee will suddenly come upon you.
Lamentations 338
Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come?
Nehemiah 75
So my God put it into my heart to assemble the nobles, the officials and the common people for registration by families. I found the genealogical record of those who had been the first to return. This is what I found written there
Proverbs 26
For the LORD gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
2 Corinthians 816
Thanks be to God, who put into the heart of Titus the same concern I have for you.
2 Corinthians 214
But thanks be to God, who always leads us as captives in Christ's triumphal procession and uses us to spread the aroma of the knowledge of him everywhere.
Revelation 1717
For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God's words are fulfilled.
Proverbs 164
The LORD works out everything to its proper end-- even the wicked for a day of disaster.
Ecclesiastes 713
Consider what God has done Who can straighten what he has made crooked?
Ezra 727
Blessed be the LORD, the God of our fathers, who put such a thing as this into the heart of the king, to beautify the house of the LORD that is in Jerusalem,
Exodus 362
And Moses called Bezaleel and Aholiab, and every wise hearted man, in whose heart the LORD had put wisdom, even every one whose heart stirred him up to come unto the work to do it
Isaiah 498
This is what the LORD says "In the time of my favor I will answer you, and in the day of salvation I will help you; I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people, to restore the land and to reassign its desolate inheritances,
Isaiah 659
I will bring forth descendants from Jacob, and from Judah those who will possess my mountains; my chosen people will inherit them, and there will my servants live.
Ezekiel 3626
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
Job 210
He replied, "You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?" In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.
Jeremiah 3242
"This is what the LORD says As I have brought all this great calamity on this people, so I will give them all the prosperity I have promised them.
Psalm 399
I was silent; I would not open my mouth, for you are the one who has done this.
Ecclesiastes 714
When times are good, be happy; but when times are bad, consider this God has made the one as well as the other. Therefore, no one can discover anything about their future.
1 Kings 1114
Then the LORD raised up against Solomon an adversary, Hadad the Edomite, from the royal line of Edom.
1 Kings 1123
And God raised up against Solomon another adversary, Rezon son of Eliada, who had fled from his master, Hadadezer king of Zobah.
Ezra 15
Then God stirred the hearts of the priests and Levites and the leaders of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin to go to Jerusalem to rebuild the Temple of the LORD.
Haggai 114
So the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua son of Jozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of the whole remnant of the people. They came and began to work on the house of the LORD Almighty, their God,
Isaiah 412
"Who has stirred up one from the east, calling him in righteousness to his service? He hands nations over to him and subdues kings before him. He turns them to dust with his sword, to windblown chaff with his bow.
Romans 920
But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'"
Isaiah 459
"Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker, those who are nothing but potsherds among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, 'What are you making?' Does your work say, 'The potter has no hands'?
Isaiah 648
Yet you, LORD, are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand.
Jeremiah 186
He said, "Can I not do with you, Israel, as this potter does?" declares the LORD. "Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, Israel.
Romans 921
Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
Romans 144
Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
Romans 918
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
Exodus 421
The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.
Exodus 73
But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt,
Exodus 912
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses.
Exodus 101
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these signs of mine among them
Exodus 1020
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go.
Exodus 1027
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he was not willing to let them go.
Exodus 1110
Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country.
Exodus 144
And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them. But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD." So the Israelites did this.
Exodus 1417
I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they will go in after them. And I will gain glory through Pharaoh and all his army, through his chariots and his horsemen.
Deuteronomy 230
But Sihon king of Heshbon refused to let us pass through. For the LORD your God had made his spirit stubborn and his heart obstinate in order to give him into your hands, as he has now done.
Joshua 1120
For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses.
John 1240
"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."
Romans 916
It does not, therefore, depend on human will or effort, but on God's mercy.
Ephesians 28
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-
Romans 915
For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
Romans 917
For Scripture says to Pharaoh "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
Exodus 916
But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.
Jeremiah 1016
But the God of Israel is no idol! He is the Creator of everything that exists, including Israel, his own special possession. The LORD of Heaven's Armies is his name!
Jeremiah 5119
But the God of Israel is no idol! He is the Creator of everything that exists, including his people, his own special possession. The LORD of Heaven's Armies is his name!
Acts 424
When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. "Sovereign Lord," they said, "you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.
Nehemiah 96
You alone are the LORD. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship you.
Acts 1415
"Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them.
Revelation 106
And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, "There will be no more delay!
Isaiah 4424
"This is what the LORD says-- your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself,
Isaiah 4314
This is what the LORD says-- your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel "For your sake I will send to Babylon and bring down as fugitives all the Babylonians, in the ships in which they took pride.
Zechariah 121
A prophecy The word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares
Isaiah 4424
This is what the LORD says--your Redeemer and Creator "I am the LORD, who made all things. I alone stretched out the heavens. Who was with me when I made the earth?
Isaiah 4518
For this is what the LORD says-- he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited-- he says "I am the LORD, and there is no other.
Proverbs 305
Every word of God proves true. He is a shield to all who come to him for protection
Deuteronomy 83
Yes, he humbled you by making you go hungry and then feeding you with manna, a food previously unknown to you and your ancestors. He did it to teach you that people do not live by bread alone; rather, we live by every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.
Romans 830
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
1 Corinthians 27
but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;
Isaiah 2612
LORD, you establish peace for us; all that we have accomplished you have done for us.
Isaiah 251
O LORD, you are my God! I will exalt you in praise, I will extol your fame. For you have done extraordinary things, and executed plans made long ago exactly as you decreed.
Psalm 405
Many, LORD my God, are the wonders you have done, the things you planned for us. None can compare with you; were I to speak and tell of your deeds, they would be too many to declare.
Ephesians 111
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
Ephesians 15
he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--
Philippians 213
for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
Romans 814
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
Jeremiah 152
And if they ask you, 'Where shall we go?' tell them, 'This is what the LORD says "'Those destined for death, to death; those for the sword, to the sword; those for starvation, to starvation; those for captivity, to captivity.'
Jeremiah 164
"They will die of deadly diseases. They will not be mourned or buried but will be like dung lying on the ground. They will perish by sword and famine, and their dead bodies will become food for the birds and the wild animals."
Jeremiah 2410
I will send the sword, famine and plague against them until they are destroyed from the land I gave to them and their ancestors.'"
Jeremiah 4311
He will come and attack Egypt, bringing death to those destined for death, captivity to those destined for captivity, and the sword to those destined for the sword.
Ezekiel 512
A third of your people will die of the plague or perish by famine inside you; a third will fall by the sword outside your walls; and a third I will scatter to the winds and pursue with drawn sword.
Ezekiel 1211
Say to them, 'I am a sign to you.' "As I have done, so it will be done to them. They will go into exile as captives.
Ezekiel 3327
"Say this to them 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says As surely as I live, those who are left in the ruins will fall by the sword, those out in the country I will give to the wild animals to be devoured, and those in strongholds and caves will die of a plague.
Zechariah 119
So I said, ?I will not be your shepherd. What is to die, let it die. What is to be destroyed, let it be destroyed. And let those who are left devour the flesh of one another.?
Revelation 1310
Anyone who is destined for prison will be taken to prison. Anyone destined to die by the sword will die by the sword. This means that God's holy people must endure persecution patiently and remain faithful.
Isaiah 485
Therefore I told you these things long ago; before they happened I announced them to you so that you could not say, 'My images brought them about; my wooden image and metal god ordained them.'
Isaiah 448
Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one."
Job 122
In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.
Job 1910
He tears me down on every side till I am gone; he uproots my hope like a tree.
Job 1214
What he tears down cannot be rebuilt; those he imprisons cannot be released.
Job 377
So that everyone he has made may know his work, he stops all people from their labor.
Job 1215
If he holds back the waters, there is drought; if he lets them loose, they devastate the land.
Job 1216
To him belong strength and insight; both deceived and deceiver are his.
Job 1217
He leads rulers away stripped and makes fools of judges.
Job 1219
He leads priests away stripped and overthrows officials long established.
Job 1220
He silences the lips of trusted advisers and takes away the discernment of elders.
Job 174
You have closed their minds to understanding; therefore you will not let them triumph.
Job 1222
He reveals the deep things of darkness and brings utter darkness into the light.
Job 1223
He makes nations great, and destroys them; he enlarges nations, and disperses them.
Job 1224
He deprives the leaders of the earth of their reason; he makes them wander in a trackless waste.
Job 1225
They grope in darkness with no light; he makes them stagger like drunkards.
Job 3836
Who gives the ibis wisdom or gives the rooster understanding?
Job 3839
"Do you hunt the prey for the lioness and satisfy the hunger of the lions
Job 3841
Who provides food for the raven when its young cry out to God and wander about for lack of food?
Job 3917
for God did not endow her with wisdom or give her a share of good sense.
Job 3926
"Does the hawk take flight by your wisdom and spread its wings toward the south?
Job 3927
Does the eagle soar at your command and build its nest on high?
Job 4014
Then I myself will admit to you that your own right hand can save you.
Job 4111
Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me.
Romans 1135
"Who has ever given to God, that God should repay them?"
1 Corinthians 1026
for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."
Deuteronomy 1014
To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it.
Job 95
He moves mountains without their knowing it and overturns them in his anger.
Job 422
"I know that you can do all things; no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
Job 423
You asked, 'Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?' Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know.
Job 427
After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.
Job 428
So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has."

God does everything, and if you read Job you will understand that as well. God is the tormentor, the cause of disease, the deceived and the deceiver are his doing, he is the cause of all delusion, we are at the mercy of God, God can in an instant turn us away and destroy us, and God answers to no authority, God does whatever God wants to do. So please don't ignore the scripture, please understand that there is nothing but God's will in action, you can not do anything, it is God doing it all ultimately.

Job 932
"God is not a mortal like me, so I cannot argue with him or take him to trial.

Job 934
The mediator could make God stop beating me, and I would no longer live in terror of his punishment.

Job 935
Then I could speak to him without fear, but I cannot do that in my own strength.

Job 107
though you know that I am not guilty and that no one can rescue me from your hand?

Job 108
"'You formed me with your hands; you made me, yet now you completely destroy me.

Job 922
It is all the same; that is why I say, 'He destroys both the blameless and the wicked.'

FreedomStands

If God encapsules the sun, moon, sea, land etc, then what are we told to believe in?

If I am wrong, May I stand corrected.

Peace

673
He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in truth. In the day when He saith Be! it is. His Word is the Truth (whatever Allah says becomes the "truth&quot, and His will be the Sovereignty on the day when the trumpet is blown. Knower of the Invisible and the Visible, He is the Wise, the Aware.
And when Ibrahim said to his sire, Azar Do you take idols for gods? Surely I see you and your people in manifest error.
And thus We gave Abraham insight into mighty dominion over the heavens and the earth - and to the end that he become one of those who attain certainty.
When the night grew dark upon him he beheld a star. He said This is my Lord. But when it set, he said I love not things that set.
And when he saw the moon uprising, he exclaimed This is my Lord. But when it set, he said Unless my Lord guide me, I surely shall be one of the folk who are astray.
When he saw the sun rising in splendour, he said "This is my Lord; this is the greatest (of all)." But when the sun set, he said "O my people! I am indeed free from your (guilt) of giving partners to Allah.
Behold, unto Him who brought into being the heavens and the earth have I turned my face, having turned away from all that is false; and I am not of those who ascribe divinity to aught beside Him."
And his people argued with him. He said "Do you argue with me about God, when it is He who has guided me? But I do not fear anything to which you ascribe divinity side by side with Him, unless my Sustainer so wills. All things does my Sustainer encompass! will you not, then, keep this in mind?
And why should I fear anything that you worship side by side with Him, seeing that you are not afraid of ascribing divinity to other powers beside God without His ever having bestowed upon you from on high any warrant therefor? then, which of the two parties has a better right to feel secure -if you happen to know ?
"It is those who believe and confuse not their beliefs with wrong - that are (truly) in security, for they are on (right) guidance."
And this was Our argument which We vouchsafed unto Abraham against his people We do raise by degrees whom We will. Verily, thy Sustainer is wise, all-knowing.

687
and also some of their forefathers, their offspring, and their brothers We chose them and guided them to a straight path.
Such is God's guidance He guides therewith whomever He wills of His slaves/clients. And had they ascribed divinity to aught beside Him-in vain, indeed, would have been all that they ever did
Those are they unto whom We gave the Scripture and command and prophethood. But if these disbelieve therein, then indeed We shall entrust it to a people who will not be disbelievers therein.
to those whom God has guided. Follow, then, their guidance, say "No reward do I ask of you for this behold, it is but an admonition unto all mankind!"

2439
But as for those who are bent on denying the truth, their deeds are like a mirage in the desert, which the thirsty supposes to be water ? until, when he approaches it, he finds that it was nothing instead, he finds God with him, and He will pay him his account in full - for God is swift in reckoning!

1673
and will they worship, instead of God, something that has it not within its power to provide for them any sustenance whatever from the heavens or the earth, and can do nothing at all?
Allah sets forth a parable (consider) a slave, the property of another, (who) has no power over anything, and one whom We have granted from Ourselves a goodly sustenance so he spends from it secretly and openly; are the two alike? (All) praise is due to Allah! Nay, most of them do not know.

3786
"Is it a falsehood- gods other than Allah- that ye desire?
What, then, do you think of the Sustainer of all the worlds??
Then he cast a glance at the stars,
Then said Lo! I feel sick!

3796
the while it is God who has created you and all your handiwork??

3799
And said ?Verily, I shall go wherever my Sustainer will take me!?

FreedomStands

May I point out to you that there are NO verses in the Qur'an that say ignorant people "will be thrown into hell". Your assumptions are painful.

7179
And most certainly have We destined for hell many of the jinn and men; who have hearts with which they fail to grasp the truth, and eyes with which they fail to see, and ears with which they fail to hear. They are like cattle -nay, they are even less conscious of the right way it is they, they who are the heedless!

7155
And Moses chose of his people seventy men for Our appointed tryst and, when the trembling came on them, he said My Lord! If Thou hadst willed Thou hadst destroyed them long before, and me with them. Wilt thou destroy us for that which the ignorant among us did? It is but Thy Proving. Thou sendest whom Thou wilt astray and guidest whom Thou wilt Thou art our Protector, therefore forgive us and have mercy on us, Thou, the Best of all who show forgiveness.
And ordain Thou for us what is good in this world as well as in the life to come behold, unto Thee have we turned in repentance!" answered "With My chastisement do I afflict whom I will - but My grace overspreads everything and so I shall confer it on those who are conscious of Me and spend in charity, and who believe in Our messages-
Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him they are the successful.
Say "O mankind! Verily, I am an apostle of God to all of you, unto whom the dominion over the heavens and the earth belongs! There is no deity save Him; He grants life and deals death!" Believe, then, in God and His Apostle-the unlettered Prophet who believes in God and His words-and follow him, so that you might find guidance!

213
When someone tells them "Believe just as other people believe," they say "Are we to believe just as simpletons believe?" Surely they are the fools even though they do not realize it!

Man_of_Faith

Have faith Freedom,

I do not understand where you get the notion that I do not acknowledge that God runs everything?

God is existence itself and the flesh is an expression of that existence (energy). Hence God sustains the universe and through this phenomenon the platform is God, so it is right to say that is the doer of everything technically. But the physical creation is an illusion and a test and is not the real realm of God even if it is sustained by God. The purpose of man with their souls is to reject the flesh and approach the spiritual realm. It is on a highly abstract level and it is difficult for materialistically inclined people to grasp the concept. It is talk about a kind of union like a symbiosis with the Creator that is the aim and this is through assimilation and spiritual affinity.

But if a man has spiritual ascension or not it depends wholly on whether the he/she has the right approach to life and the responsibility is on man himself. Through your mistaken conception then you indirectly blames God and it is God's fault that people do not "believe" as you call it. It is entirely a personal matter whether you have faith or not and we are responsible for our own souls.

It clearly shows that God is the one doing it all, all of it is from God, nothing at all is not God's doing, nothing at all is not caused by God, God is doing every single bit of it, even if a person imagines it is themselves it is really God doing it. These verses demonstrate that. You will see it is God who makes people believe, God who makes people disbelieve, God who deforms people, God who burns them, God is responsible for all bad things, God is responsible for all good things, God is the one doing every single aspect, everything that happens is what God is doing, if a person believes and does good it is by God alone making them do it, and if God hardens a person they can never believe, God sends all our thoughts, all delusions, everything is from God alone.

You make a logical error in these claims.

Plus you give a factual error even in sectarian measures since traditional translations claim that the bad is from ourselves while the good is from God.

I am fully aware of the sectarian perception of Islam and I am propagating against it by researching on it myself on a morpheme level and also by pointing out logical errors and inconsistency in the mainstream interpretation. My understanding and work is difficult for me of course because when I discover an error somewhere in the understanding of an individual word I have masses of work because I cause a chain reaction throughout the whole scripture and it often appears I am wrong because this work creates incomprehension in current translations/interpretations. I must both argue the new discovery plus turn erroneous passages right or else no one will believe me. It is a tedious task.

But unless you change the perception and method in your approach to Qur'an then this talk about my discoveries is obviously futile. You rely heavily on available dictionaries apparently oblivious to the probability that they are biased and inaccurate. And I discovered a method of exposing false/incorrect interpretations by realizing that Arabic (as well as Hebrew) is based on a letter system which creates its words right out of the very letters. The order and combination of letters utilized in an Arabic word determines its meaning, plus the attached affixes which modifies the word but still based on the innate meaning of the letters. And exclusively all Arabic words work out from a trilateral root unless they are less sophisticated. Each "slot" where the letter occurs in the trilateral word gives a different feature to the final definition of the word.

and , for example, contain the exact same letters but in a different order and the order is very important for the meaning.

What led me to this conclusion about the innate letter meaning was the so-called Quranic initials, particularly in chapter 38 and 68 the letters are followed by a conjunction indicating that the first letter is supposed to carry its own meaning in the context.

Of course most people reject this as whims and desires, but it has helped me tremendously in understanding individual Arabic words. I argue that I can get a more or less 100% accurate definition using this technique. And Arabic words do only have one meaning compared to the mainstream scholars argue that they can have a handful of meanings.

I was looking at the word last night and its occurrences and I can tell it does not have to do at all with some hidden garden since the word is used for any perceived garden in the discourse. While it does not give relationship to the Jinn word, it still shows that you cannot justify 'hidden' using Jannaat. I cannot but make a qualified guess at this time, but it appears that the Jinn word refers to someone who is fleshly/earthly, probably due to that they cannot see more than their eyes can see. It could be why the garden is referred to by the same root usage due to the function and features of a garden. You may be right that the word does not directly mean faithless even if the person who is jinn is indirectly faithless. The literal translation of the two letters in combination is 'lowly entity' but it could probably also be understood as 'earthbound entity', i.e. someone who is attached to the fleshly illusion of this world.

I sense that you are not open to this discussion, but perhaps someone else is and reads this. It is too abstract and farfetched for most people it seems.

Commentary about your posted passages

Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us,

Why do you think I argue against this notion?

1 Corinthians 18
He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is true, but you have to give your own efforts as well. You do not enjoy a free-ride. Although I dispute the authenticity of the Corinthians part of the New Testament.

Matthew 44
Jesus answered, "It is written 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"

If you understood this passage you would understand that it speaks of avoiding materialism. Satan is tempting Jesus to indulge in the flesh.

Exodus 411
The LORD said to him, "Who gave human beings their mouths? Who makes them deaf or mute? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? Is it not I, the LORD?

Who would argue this notion but fools?

Romans 919
Well then, you might say, "Why does God blame people for not responding? Haven't they simply done what he makes them do?"

It is a rhetorical question.

2 Thessalonians 211
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

And the curse is due to your behavior and spiritual neglect. How many are not the sectarian Muslims who believe in a Pagan-style religion?

Judges 923
God stirred up animosity between Abimelek and the citizens of Shechem so that they acted treacherously against Abimelek.

Yes. And do you understand how? The people were probably jinns and very fleshly and the energy that the universe is made from is in ultimate control by God. Controlling these people are like controlling animals, i.e. easy, without intending to be insulting. I mean if you indulge and live a life in the flesh you succumb to it.

I was intending to answer many passages, but I noticed that you parroted so many of them.

I am still curious of how you (ab)use this to say God is responsible for everything. It is a logical error and it innately puts the blame on God and also we are living this live redundantly, i.e. it is meaningless. God is the foundation and responsible for the "platform", but we are responsible for what we do with it. You have the responsibility yourself for spiritual growth and attaining faith. No one will do that for you, not even God.

Please read the following completely and with an open mind to make sure your theology falls into place with the scripture, it will give you a scarier and greater realization of what is happening and make you a better devotee of God I think if you are allowed to understand it

By this I take it that you consider yourself better spiritually "guided" than I? Thanks for your efforts anyway. But I think you are unfocused on the essence of faith and what emphasis to have. And you misrepresent Jesus since that man was stern against Paganism and formed his expressions based on this to avoid misunderstanding the nature of God. And since he was in assimilation/symbiosis with God he said "My words are not my own but of the one who sent me". The reason why he avoided using the word God (Elohim in his language) was due to this fact and he used Father instead which is supposed to indicate Creator. Jesus was fully aware of the "commandments" which says that "you should not make an image of anything in Heaven or Earth and use it in worship". It includes any image you paint in your mind to represent God. And what Jesus taught was spiritual assimilation and he emphasized on the symbiotic relationship between Creator and Creation.

Salaam

Man_of_Faith

7179
And most certainly have We destined for hell many of the jinn and men; who have hearts with which they fail to grasp the truth, and eyes with which they fail to see, and ears with which they fail to hear. They are like cattle -nay, they are even less conscious of the right way it is they, they who are the heedless!

The question is what they failed to see. If you want my cent it talks about being a good person and spiritually ascended that these people fail with.

Thou sendest whom Thou wilt astray and guidest whom Thou wilt

You need to comprehend what the language means before making claims. The word for guide rather means guidance/affiliation/proximity, and if you are void of that you are astray, i.e. away from God. If one is not assimilated with the spirit of God then the consequence of this is disassociation from God. And God is not with such people.

And being not close to God is by indulging in the flesh, following instincts and misbehaving. Quite easy to grasp. You rather follow the Beast.

213
When someone tells them "Believe just as other people believe," they say "Are we to believe just as simpletons believe?" Surely they are the fools even though they do not realize it!

This passage is awfully mistranslated/misinterpreted, but anyway; it says "have affinity as people have affinity", i.e. follow the 'Commandments' (which I call 'Guidelines&#039 and not seek to be a jinn and completely absorbed in this life.

Have faith

Man_of_Faith

Harmony be with you sushi,

If God encapsules the sun, moon, sea, land etc, then what are we told to believe in?

If I am wrong, May I stand corrected.

Peace

Believe in good, gain a spiritual assimilation and affinity with your Creator and act thereafter. You cannot fathom God. Just see it as existence itself.

Have faith

FreedomStands