Why does the Quran and Bible describe the Sun as going around the Earth?
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Yeah that is true, it has some really gross stuff in it.
For example?
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I still don't understand what you're really here for? What is the point of this thread? I'm just curious?
The purpose of this thread was actually to entertain the possibility that the Quran and Bible are actually saying that the Sun and stars go around the Earth and see if the current science does actually have it wrong. For me, I feel the Quran and Bible are saying that the Sun and stars do go around the Earth and that this is one of the many signs of God, a huge one at that.
I feel God could have easily explained that the earth rotates in a verse or two but he doesn't. So maybe it doesn't, maybe this is the truth. This would make the Quran and Bible correct with the original understanding people had prior to modern science. It's both a huge sign and one that is easily visible and testable by all of mankind.
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The purpose of this thread was actually to entertain the possibility that the Quran and Bible are actually saying that the Sun and stars go around the Earth and see if the current science does actually have it wrong. For me, I feel the Quran and Bible are saying that the Sun and stars do go around the Earth and that this is one of the many signs of God, a huge one at that.
I feel God could have easily explained that the earth rotates in a verse or two but he doesn't. So maybe it doesn't, maybe this is the truth. This would make the Quran and Bible correct with the original understanding people had prior to modern science. It's both a huge sign and one that is easily visible and testable by all of mankind.
Oh I see. Well any such "truth" is still "truth" with a little t. The Qur'an is more interested (it seems to me) in letting people know about the Ultimate Truth which is Allah only, the unchanging eternal.
Modern science had a reason for understanding that the Earth orbits the sun since it explained more things than the Earth centric model, but neither "truth" would be of much importance. Allah could even have made it one way then switched it and can switch anything or make people understand things differently, yet the Qur'an never says anything so specific as to say the sun revolves around the Earth, that was the general understanding of people in the ancient world for the most part it seems.
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For example?
For instance just at the start
gen?sis 2.18 ?And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Funy this God that realises afterward after making the man that it is not god for him to be alone, and moving how nice that He is going a Help FOR the man.
3.16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Speaking about mashochism,there and then in the GardenGod invented it for the woman, the b... beauty which made all of us fall.
I suppose us women and men who are gentlemen should really love tht and not find it gross at all. Just at the beginning.
Salaam
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Oh I see. Well any such "truth" is still "truth" with a little t. The Qur'an is more interested (it seems to me) in letting people know about the Ultimate Truth which is Allah only, the unchanging eternal.
Modern science had a reason for understanding that the Earth orbits the sun since it explained more things than the Earth centric model, but neither "truth" would be of much importance. Allah could even have made it one way then switched it and can switch anything or make people understand things differently, yet the Qur'an never says anything so specific as to say the sun revolves around the Earth, that was the general understanding of people in the ancient world for the most part it seems.
If the sun and stars orbit the earth then it makes it pretty clear that everything revolves around the earth thereby making a it a special place in the universe. Whereas if we are just a tiny dot floating around with all the other stars and planets in the universe then there is nothing special about our planet. The forces required to make all the stars and galaxies revolve around the earth is beyond our imagination. Wouldn't it be great if science one day did actually prove that the earth is stationary and the stars do orbit it?
The science regarding the the earth rotating is not as conclusive as it is made out to be which really surprised me. It's actually extremely difficult to do an experiment on earth and in space to prove that the earth rotates. I've been through tons of science and had some detailed discussions with atheists and those who have better knowledge of the science. I'm not totally convinced yet although I do accept that the science does make sense for a rotating earth.
If I had the resources I'd love to do some experiments to put some doubt into the rotating earth theory.
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You can make any point in the universe the "center", you can even say you yourself are the "center" and everything is just revolving around you or orbiting you, which is actually true as well, it is all about perspective and point of perspective, and any point can be taken as the focal point of choice and then everything else will be appearing to rotate around it.
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You can make any point in the universe the "center", you can even say you yourself are the "center" and everything is just revolving around you or orbiting you, which is actually true as well, it is all about perspective and point of perspective, and any point can be taken as the focal point of choice and then everything else will be appearing to rotate around it.
I think that's one of the peculiarities of the subjective reality. Yes, you're right we can make any point of the universe the "center". In our subjective reality we are actually the center of the universe, the most important person is ourself. However when it comes to the physical reality we can't change it. It is what it is. We all share it. We're insignificant compared to everything else. We can all come to agreements with it.
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For instance just at the start
gen?sis 2.18 ?And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Funy this God that realises afterward after making the man that it is not god for him to be alone, and moving how nice that He is going a Help FOR the man.
3.16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Speaking about mashochism,there and then in the GardenGod invented it for the woman, the b... beauty which made all of us fall.
I suppose us women and men who are gentlemen should really love tht and not find it gross at all. Just at the beginning.
Salaam
I understand what you're saying. I myself find some portions of the Bible very questionable and hard to accept. But the majority does make sense.
To answer why "this God that realises afterward after making the man that it is not good for him to be alone" is quite simple for me. This is just God's way of communicating with us, it's an example of his grace. God knows absolutely everything. He knows how many hairs we all have on our heads, when a leaf drops, the location and life of each atom/electron in the universe. In the Quran God asks Iblis why he did not prostrate. He asks Moses what was in his hand, he asked Abraham to sacrifice his son to test him, etc. etc. God obviously knew everything before he asked.
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I havwe seen several translations of the bible and that trnaslation makes it far more palatable, that particular verse, but in others translations it is utterly ridiculous. In this one there some comouflage, the surprise that is shown in others does not show. Which one is right, but one thing is for sure, the fact stands that he made a male as the man, and then as a subsidiary, to serve him, clearly, no question there, the woman. That is not questioning or unquestionning, that is a "fact" of the bible, and the whole msogynous "events" of paradise in genesis three is not a question of asking or knowing, the facts that are told are damning. Yes, horrendous.
Salaam
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www.islamawakened.com/quran for the Qur'an
www.biblehub.com for the Bible
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It is all about perspective, both the Earth revolving around the sun and the sun revolving around the Earth are about perspective, and both are equally arbitrary before the Ultimate Truth which your minds should be focused on figuring out!
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Quran-2133 ?It is He who created The Night and Day, And the Sun and Moon; each of them Swim (float) along in its own course.?
Qur'an 911-2 "By the sun and his brightness, And the moon when she followeth him"Qur'an 3637-40 "A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness and the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise. And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit."
The verses above are pretty clear to me. For example the Sun following the moon, the Sun runneth on unto a resting-place, the Sun not able to overtake the moon. God could have just put a few words in to say the Earth rotates but you mankind see it as the Sun and stars rising and setting.
In a separate note, can someone please advise me if i can get those dam captchas removed everytime I make a post. It's real annoying having to verify each post.
I'm not sure the Quran says that the sun follows the moon?
Not providing anything too useful to you, I'm afraid, but I find it amazing that "It is not for the sun to overtake the moon" to be awesome in taking into account solar eclipses when the moon overtakes the sun. bravo
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Salamun Alaikum.
Prima Facie, "it is not for the sun to overtake the moon" could simply mean solar years are longer than lunar years. But there could be other symbolic meanings to this statement. Up to each of us to see the best sign.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salam Arman,
It looks simple for me, one can not or will not take the other's position, each have its orbit(regularity).
Sun coming in place of moon or the night continuing for multiple days.
here regularity or the repeated nature of those events is the message.
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(In answer to the subject of thread)
Due to either misinterpretations of the text or fabricated text fragments.
It is common to ignore science just to justify religious ideals, even if it is empirically provable and easy to observe it is so.
Many people argued for centuries that the Earth was flat as well despite footage from space that can prove it wrong.
Salaam
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You have so many satellites with cameras in orbit around the solar system which observe and so many scientific studies done over the past hundred years so it is only backwards thinking to claim that the sun orbits the Earth.
A combination of mathematical formulas and observation can very surely prove that the Earth is a planet in orbit around the star.
You also have telescopic observations of outer space which testify to an identical layout.
As far as I am concerned Quran says the Earth is a sphere, but it says the moon and the sun have their respective orbits but not that they factually orbit the Earth.
If it poetically speaks of sunrise or sunset somewhere it does not mean from a scientific regard. Of course the sun must set somewhere in the horizon.
Dhul-karnain seems to have chased the sunset location but that can also have been speaking of the heading of his expedition since in the past you relied on the sun for navigation since you did not have a compass. People were not stupid but they knew the sun always rose and set in the same direction.
More than often the interpretation is utterly inaccurate so you should not take any interpretation of it as absolutely ultimate. That is worth taking into consideration.
Salaam
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You have so many satellites with cameras in orbit around the solar system which observe and so many scientific studies done over the past hundred years so it is only backwards thinking to claim that the sun orbits the Earth.
A combination of mathematical formulas and observation can very surely prove that the Earth is a planet in orbit around the star.
You also have telescopic observations of outer space which testify to an identical layout.
As far as I am concerned Quran says the Earth is a sphere, but it says the moon and the sun have their respective orbits but not that they factually orbit the Earth.
If it poetically speaks of sunrise or sunset somewhere it does not mean from a scientific regard. Of course the sun must set somewhere in the horizon.
Dhul-karnain seems to have chased the sunset location but that can also have been speaking of the heading of his expedition since in the past you relied on the sun for navigation since you did not have a compass. People were not stupid but they knew the sun always rose and set in the same direction.
More than often the interpretation is utterly inaccurate so you should not take any interpretation of it as absolutely ultimate. That is worth taking into consideration.
Salaam
Lol, I was gonna say the same. Thanks for saying it.
Ted, you are missing a point. There is something you are not catching in the verses below
Quran-2133 ?It is He who created The Night and Day, And the Sun and Moon; each of them Swim (float) along in its own course.?
Qur'an 911-2 "By the sun and his brightness, And the moon when she followeth him"
Qur'an 3637-40 "A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness and the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise. And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit."
Not a single one of them mentions 'EARTH'. Hence they are not saying sun revolves around it.
911-2 talks about night after day. At dusk, we can sometimes see the moon clearly. Hence the line "moon follows the sun".
2133 and 3637-40 are fully clear. Without orbits the two would have collided long time ago.