Is there a single Muslim on this whole website?
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Well once you are done with your name calling... (stupid, stupidest ets.) perhaps you could clarify exactly what part of "Allah is an enemy to the faith repressors ( َ you find difficult to understand?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanSalaam Arman,
It looks Ted misunderstood your question. I think its Freedomstands who said God can be considered the potential enemy of man, which needs further clarifications. May be I am wrong.
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Salam Amin.
If someone said that "God can be considered a potential enemy of entire mankind" then of course that is absurd. Somehow I am feeling nobody is saying that here. However, God can be our enemy if we choose to repress our faith - and from that perspective God is our greatest potential enemy if we choose or fancy to be willfully disobedient. That is clearly implied in Qur'an.
I just think lot of the debate on this thread is simply result of misunderstanding of what others are saying.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Ok I guess we should ask FreedomStands to clarify.
FreedomStands, please do clarify.
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Nobody is a born Muslim, that would be unfair to all those born in other nations.
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Peace Recluse,
Do you also have links for me about Ramadan, Zakat and Hajj? If so, I would really appreciate if you shared.
Zakat
http//www.free-minds.org/zakat-quran
Ramadan (read up to reply #5)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg34302#msg34302
Hajj
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13271.msg175304#msg175304
http//www.free-minds.org/how-did-it-come-part-1
May the love and light of the infinite Creator be with you.
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Peace Recluse,
Zakat
http//www.free-minds.org/zakat-quran
Ramadan (read up to reply #5)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg34302#msg34302
Hajj
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13271.msg175304#msg175304
http//www.free-minds.org/how-did-it-come-part-1
May the love and light of the infinite Creator be with you.
Thanks, you're right, I saw all those articles on the home page of the website after I had asked.
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Nobody is a born Muslim, that would be unfair to all those born in other nations.
Hi Recluse
How about "Everybody is born muslim and they continue to be muslim as long as they continue to surrender to their Creator by consciously upholding the sense of right and wrong their Creator has gifted them irrespective of which religion / sect / culture they belong to".
Does it still sound unfair?
Regards,
Arman -
Hi Recluse
How about "Everybody is born muslim and they continue to be muslim as long as they continue to surrender to their Creator by consciously upholding the sense of right and wrong their Creator has gifted them irrespective of which religion / sect / culture they belong to".
Does it still sound unfair?
Regards,
ArmanWould that not make the pagans at the time of the prophet Mohammed muslim aswell? In fact that would make everyone muslim.
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Would that not make the pagans at the time of the prophet Mohammed muslim aswell? In fact that would make everyone muslim.
Salam Ted.
EXACTLY - that would mean the father, mother and grand father of Prophet Muhammad were indeed "potentially" muslim although they might not have the privilage of "Quranic" guidance. Per my humble reading of Qur'an Muhammad was sent as a messenger to give glad tidings to all those who were already muslim (by being good), and to give warning to those who were already repressing faith - NOT TO introduce a new benchmark against which Allah will judge who is muslim and who is not. You do not need to go too far in Qur'an to realize this, carefully examine the first 30 verses of Surah Baquarah and you'll understand where I am coming from.
The idea that Muhammad (pbuh) introduced a new criteria for being muslim, and everyone living in Arabia before Muhammad were pagan and doomed to hell - is the innovation of the envious minds who once again found it convenient to take the universal message brought by a prophet and reinterpret it to propagate their narrow communal interest. This has happen to the teaching of every Prophet, that is all too common plot of devil
2213 Mankind used to be a single community. Then Allah animated the prophets, as bearer of (glad) tidings and as bearer of warnings, and sent down with them the book in truth to judge among mankind in what they differed in it. And none differed in it except the ones ? they were given it from after clear proofs which came to them - envy among them. Then Allah guided those who had faith regarding what they differed in it from the truth with His authorization. And Allah guides to straight route whomever He wills.
(My personal translation, cross checking recommended.)
YES Everyone is a muslim, until they willingly choose to repress (ka-fa-ra) their faith ("faith" - being the acceptance of the sense of right and wrong, as a solemn obligation entrusted upon us along with the gift of life).
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salam Ted.
EXACTLY - that would mean the father, mother and grand father of Prophet Muhammad were indeed "potentially" muslim although they might not have the privilage of "Quranic" guidance. Per my humble reading of Qur'an Muhammad was sent as a messenger to give glad tidings to all those who were already muslim (by being good), and to give warning to those who were already repressing faith - NOT TO introduce a new benchmark against which Allah will judge who is muslim and who is not. You do not need to go too far in Qur'an to realize this, carefully examine the first 30 verses of Surah Baquarah and you'll understand where I am coming from.
The idea that Muhammad (pbuh) introduced a new criteria for being muslim, and everyone living in Arabia before Muhammad were pagan and doomed to hell - is the innovation of the envious minds who once again found it convenient to take the universal message brought by a prophet and reinterpret it to propagate their narrow communal interest. This has happen to the teaching of every Prophet, that is all too common plot of devil
YES Everyone is a muslim, until they willingly choose to repress (ka-fa-ra) their faith ("faith" - being the acceptance of the sense of right and wrong, as a solemn obligation entrusted upon us along with the gift of life).
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanBeing good does not automatically make you muslim. Being good AND worshipping your Creator alone makes you a muslim. So the pagans might have been good but by worshipping idols makes them unbelievers. Same goes for the atheists.
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Being good does not automatically make you muslim. Being good AND worshipping your Creator alone makes you a muslim. So the pagans might have been good but by worshipping idols makes them unbelievers. Same goes for the atheists.
Salam TED.
Perhaps you can help me understand what you are saying by defining "worshipping"?
Regards,
Arman -
Hi, I'm back now, just finished collecting my 500 posts and posting them, you can ask me whatever you want!
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Salam TED.
Perhaps you can help me understand what you are saying by defining "worshipping"?
Regards,
ArmanIn this case praying.
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My understanding on the word muslim,
Muslim is one makes peace, one who adjust and say, lets come to a common understanding with respect to what we both identify as goodness, thereby maintaining peace, if the other one is not accepting then say your way is yours and our way is ours.
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My belief on the word muslim,
Muslim is one makes peace, one who adjust and say, lets come to a common understanding with respect to what we both identify as goodness, thereby maintaining peace, if the other one is not accepting then say your way is yours and our way is ours.
Yeah, I try to do that too, thats why I use other religious frameworks to talk about Islam also.
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In this case praying.
Salam TED.
If your idea of Allah/God is that Allah is a deity who is obsessed with People "praying" to Him and hence sends Prophets with books that contain updated "rules of the road" on how to pray to Him - then I believe you are carrying an incorrect illusion of a deity (Tagoot) that the clergy of your religion have artificially defined and tricked you into believing. A deity who is waiting with his big book of judgement where he is putting a tally against who is "correctly" praying to him and who is not and on the judgement day he'd use the tally book to send a group to hell and the rest to the heaven.
No. Exalted be Allah! Allah is the Creative force that binds all of us together - ALL OF US - the 1 billion Chinese, the 1 billion Indians, the 1 billion "Muslims" and 2 billion Christians - ALL OF US. He is the one who designs every cell of the body of each one of us, arranged every meal that each one of us take has purified every breath of air that each one of us take. His system is just and fair to the atom to each one of us. As long as a human being accepts his common connection with everyone else around and out of respect towards that common connection (which is our Common Rabb - Allah) acts upon his God gifted senses of right and wrong - that human being is worshiping Allah. That Allah is their Master, our Master, my Master, your Master. So let's all be slave to Him (as opposed to an artificially defined deity based on someone's holy book). That is the straight route.
Our Prophet Muhammad taught us the message of Allah (i.e. Qur'an) to make us conscious of that common connection named God - not to distribute easy tickets to heaven issued by a deity.
I know this realization is not easy to grasp. You will believe what you ought to believe. Our Master guides to the straight route whomever He wills.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Arman has been saying good stuff since I've been collecting my posts and haven't been posting as much, the above post is good and the ones where he defended my statements and pointed out important features were also good and accurate, he understood what I had been saying, and I agree also with what he is saying above here!
He is one of the few people I consider a fellow Muslim (muslim, whatever, lol I try not to make a big deal about Muslim or muslim or all that, I'd take the capital version for ourselves and give the one without capitalization to the common "muslims" and give one without an "m" to some of the wacky ones on this website, rendering "uslims" and for the really poor(ly educated, misinforming) ones, I'd take both m's out and render it "uslis", oh wow that sounds surprisingly similar to "useless"! If Ted isn't a Christian then we might give him the title of MUSLIM in all caps so that it always seems very fervent in relation to him).
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Salam TED.
If your idea of Allah/God is that Allah is a deity who is obsessed with People "praying" to Him and hence sends Prophets with books that contain updated "rules of the road" on how to pray to Him - then I believe you are carrying an incorrect illusion of a deity (Tagoot) that the clergy of your religion have artificially defined and tricked you into believing. A deity who is waiting with his big book of judgement where he is putting a tally against who is "correctly" praying to him and who is not and on the judgement day he'd use the tally book to send a group to hell and the rest to the heaven.
No. Exalted be Allah! Allah is the Creative force that binds all of us together - ALL OF US - the 1 billion Chinese, the 1 billion Indians, the 1 billion "Muslims" and 2 billion Christians - ALL OF US. He is the one who designs every cell of the body of each one of us, arranged every meal that each one of us take has purified every breath of air that each one of us take. His system is just and fair to the atom to each one of us. As long as a human being accepts his common connection with everyone else around and out of respect towards that common connection (which is our Common Rabb - Allah) acts upon his God gifted senses of right and wrong - that human being is worshiping Allah. That Allah is their Master, our Master, my Master, your Master. So let's all be slave to Him (as opposed to an artificially defined deity based on someone's holy book). That is the straight route.
Our Prophet Muhammad taught us the message of Allah (i.e. Qur'an) to make us conscious of that common connection named God - not to distribute easy tickets to heaven issued by a deity.
I know this realization is not easy to grasp. You will believe what you ought to believe. Our Master guides to the straight route whomever He wills.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanSalaam Armanaziz,
No I don't believe God is one who is obsessed with having his creation pray to him constantly in a robotic manner. However God has revealed to mankind how to pray to though his prophets. These need to be followed. If you don't follow them then it's like ignoring what God is guiding you to do. Some may not understand the value and why they need to pray and may not do it regular or at all. That's between them and their Creator. However scripture says that we need to pray so if we believe those scriptures then we need to pray regular whether we like it or not just to please God.
I don't believe each prophet was sent an updated method of how to pray for each nation or mankind. So the Jews don't have the to pray the way the Muslims do it and the Hindus don't have to do it the way the Jews or Muslims do it. God reveals guidance to many nations, those nations should follow it as it is revealed to them. Praying differently to the same God is fine in my opinion as long as you are following your book properly.
I believe God made differences in each nation with regards to the rituals and customs so that they could celebrate these differences and get to know each other. However each nation needs to have in common the belief in one God and to work righteousness.
In the Quran when God says there is only one religion I believe he means there is only one path to God and that path is to believe in one God and to work righteousness. The other things like how to pray, "holy" days, certain laws can be different and they need to be followed and obeyed if God says so. In the end all nations regardless of their religion can unite on the belief in one God and working righteousness. Any disputes regarding the other things in religion can be dealt with on the Day of Judgment when we will all meet our Creator. So there is absolutely no need for hostility or hate amongst one another.
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Salaam Armanaziz,
No I don't believe God is one who is obsessed with having his creation pray to him constantly in a robotic manner. However God has revealed to mankind how to pray to though his prophets. These need to be followed. If you don't follow them then it's like ignoring what God is guiding you to do. Some may not understand the value and why they need to pray and may not do it regular or at all. That's between them and their Creator. However scripture says that we need to pray so if we believe those scriptures then we need to pray regular whether we like it or not just to please God.
I don't believe each prophet was sent an updated method of how to pray for each nation or mankind. So the Jews don't have the to pray the way the Muslims do it and the Hindus don't have to do it the way the Jews or Muslims do it. God reveals guidance to many nations, those nations should follow it as it is revealed to them. Praying differently to the same God is fine in my opinion as long as you are following your book properly.
I believe God made differences in each nation with regards to the rituals and customs so that they could celebrate these differences and get to know each other. However each nation needs to have in common the belief in one God and to work righteousness.
In the Quran when God says there is only one religion I believe he means there is only one path to God and that path is to believe in one God and to work righteousness. The other things like how to pray, "holy" days, certain laws can be different and they need to be followed and obeyed if God says so. In the end all nations regardless of their religion can unite on the belief in one God and working righteousness. Any disputes regarding the other things in religion can be dealt with on the Day of Judgment when we will all meet our Creator. So there is absolutely no need for hostility or hate amongst one another.
Sounds good to me!
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As long as a human being accepts his common connection with everyone else around and out of respect towards that common connection (which is our Common Rabb - Allah) acts upon his God gifted senses of right and wrong - that human being is worshiping Allah. That Allah is their Master, our Master, my Master, your Master. So let's all be slave to Him (as opposed to an artificially defined deity based on someone's holy book). That is the straight route.
The problem is that the pagans at the time of the prophet Mohammed did accept Allah as their creator and the one who sustains the universe and feeds them and did some righteousness according to their God gifted senses. The one who has power over all things. The same goes for the Jews, they believe/believed in one God and worship him and do righteousness according to their God gifted senses. Same goes for the Christians, they say they believe in one God and they do do some very good things in the world.
The problem is that the people of the religion make things up and say this is from God or that this other god will get us closer to the real God. Or they will create customs and rituals which they have made up. The pagans believed in one God but they had other gods which they say had some share in the power of God. Or they said there were female angels. Some did not believe in Day of Judgement.
So even though you have nations both monotheistic and pagan all believing in one God and doing good, they have some serious errors in their beliefs which God doesn't accept and he will punish them. For the Jews God rebukes them for thinking they are his special people and only they will get heaven. The Christians say Jesus is the Son of God and that we can only attain salvation through him. The pagans believe they can get closer to God through their own made up gods and some don't even believe in the Day of Judgement.
This leads to people following false doctrine and beliefs which God is not going to accept. Hence God is very strict that whenever someone speaks regarding God they speak the truth. If they don't know attribute something to God which you have no knowledge of.