Is there a single Muslim on this whole website?
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When it's proven that the sun does go around the earth using modern science then maybe you'll say that's exactly what it meant. For now carry on blindly following current science.
Science is not modern yet? First I'm brainwashed now blind? What's next?
If you read the Quran and the Bible it quite clearly describes the Sun as going around the Earth.
I can't see how the translations and words could mean anything else. Does anyone else agree with this?nope
God bless you
peace
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Science is not modern yet? First I'm brainwashed now blind? What's next?
It's understandable. There's a lot of brainwashing going on out there via media and institutions such as schools. The sun going around the earth is a concept for those who want to consider the meanings of Quran deeper and thoroughly test it it's also a concept for those who are a bit nuts.
As I mentioned before, those who read the Quran at the time it was revealed never got the impression that the earth rotates. The Quran describes the sun and stars as we observe them from earth. Which is accurate. However as it is the Quran a revelation from the God Almighty one may ponder as to why would God reveal such an obvious statement. If God had wanted to he could have easily said that the earth rotates around the sun. This would be a very clear revelation which the non believers of today could not argue against. However God does not make it clear. Either he revealed those verses for some other reason or that the sun and stars really do go around the earth.
It's not an issue worth debating with those who consider it far fetched. I just thought there may be others on forum who may have a similar view or could re-read the Quran to confirm it.
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It's understandable. There's a lot of brainwashing going on out there via media and institutions such as schools. The sun going around the earth is a concept for those who want to consider the meanings of Quran deeper and thoroughly test it it's also a concept for those who are a bit nuts.
As I mentioned before, those who read the Quran at the time it was revealed never got the impression that the earth rotates. The Quran describes the sun and stars as we observe them from earth. Which is accurate. However as it is the Quran a revelation from the God Almighty one may ponder as to why would God reveal such an obvious statement. If God had wanted to he could have easily said that the earth rotates around the sun. This would be a very clear revelation which the non believers of today could not argue against. However God does not make it clear. Either he revealed those verses for some other reason or that the sun and stars really do go around the earth.
It's not an issue worth debating with those who consider it far fetched. I just thought there may be others on forum who may have a similar view or could re-read the Quran to confirm it.
God bless you handshake
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When it's proven that the sun does go around the earth using modern science then maybe you'll say that's exactly what it meant. For now carry on blindly following current science.
Should we ask you if your cristal ball is always so unpleasant?
If it is doing guess work at least it should try to say nice things, and not punh whatever it finds just for the sake of punching. What does it know about what anybody would say if something of the kind were to be voiced now or in 4000 years from now. Just punching for the sake of punching.
Let us look at the aya.
As others have already said, we are addressed concerning things we are able to see everyday, that is an everyday happening, and what we see is the succession of day and night, and then it speaks about the sun, and what it says about the sun is nothing which is in contradiction with anything, because what it says is that "the sun runs on a course fixed for it. It does not say further than that.
How on earth (no pun intended) can from that be deduced that it says that it turns around the earth or around anything?
To note, the translation "on unto a resting-place for him" is not good. The preposition used "li" is not one of direction or destination, and "mustaqarr" is a passive participle which means "fixed" or "established". Mustaqarr is not "maqarr".
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Quran-2133 ?It is He who created The Night and Day, And the Sun and Moon; each of them Swim (float) along in its own course.?
Qur'an 911-2 "By the sun and his brightness, And the moon when she followeth him"Qur'an 3637-40 "A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness and the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise. And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit."
Peace Ted. Maybe you would interested with this model.
http//wiki.tfes.org/images/thumb/7/70/SunAnimation.gif/180px-SunAnimation.gif
An animation of the day/night cycle
You could read further explanation about this model in here http//wiki.tfes.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions
May Allah bless you.
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Mysticism? Sufism? Nonsense? Something else?
So terribly unclear. Any proof for the above, any ayats?
Again, Did you find your Arabic word meaning kill?
God bless you
peace
No, I'd probably be able to communicate with Man of Faith better if he was a Sufi Mystic but his system is developed through what he tells me was a pretty difficult process of figuring out the "meaning of each letter" somehow, maybe by looking at other words that use those single letters (I'm not sure on this or how he derived the meanings of the letters or how the initials of the Qur'an like Alif Laam Ra helped, but he said they helped somehow), then adding those meanings together or combining them to come out with a message surprisingly similar to the New Testament Bible which he considers as presenting a more accurate message than the Qur'an (in its current translations), he bases his idea of "accuracy" it seems on the belief that there is only God (which is fine by me so far) but that we must work towards this spiritual assimilation and leaving behind of matter to enter a purely spiritual realm of non-material non-bodily experiences (so in this sense similar to the Gnostics, though he doesn't like to be associated with Gnosticism).
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentinianism
http//gnosis.org/library/valentinus/Brief_Summary_Theology.htm
We're fine with Valentinianism if it is understood in a careful way, but dealing with Man of Faith can be incredibly difficult since we don't have access to his lexicon or codex of letter meanings.
Basically it is almost a sure bet that the Qur'an will almost never say what it is normally translated to say, and it must say something Pauline in nature in order to be "accurate", but even Paul would have been willing to accept the Old Testament and generally had the normal or common understanding of it, whereas nothing is true at all unless it speaks of the "spiritual assimilation" and "leaving behind of matter/beast body" that Man of Faith has determined (how?) is more "accurate" than things that don't say that (how though? how can you tell if one is true and the other isn't?).
So that is a brief little history of Man of Faith.
He hasn't completed his studies or made any codex as far as I know, so one is left "taking his word for it" and trusting that he has studied diligently to determine the meanings of single letters somehow (how exactly?)
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Peace Hawk.
A simple answer can be- When in danger of being attacked from behind-.
A funny answer can be- when you loose all sense of direction-/ Or you are in a strange place,you forgotten your afternoon prayer until the last minute before sunset and you have no time to confirm the direction .
GOD bless you.
Peace.lol yeah, my Fatwa on this matter is that "say your prayers/perform worship meditation exercises wherever you may be in any direction if you do not know the direction at the time". So says Mullah FreedomStands STAMPED! OH NO! STAMPEDE!
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hawk99,
Regarding the sun and stars going around the earth thread it seems you didn't read properly. The thread was to entertain the possibility that the sun and stars do go round the earth hence it would be a major sign of God which all of mankind can observe in any generation. The verses which you think say that the God was describing an observation which is obvious to all may have different meaning which you have been brain washed into thinking by modern science.
Geocentrism is not as strange as you might think once you go into the details of it.
Good logic was simply saying that if you are in danger/trouble/difficulties then it's OK not to face Mecca when praying. Once out of danger/trouble/difficulties then face Mecca when praying. He was not saying there is danger for you if you pray towards Mecca.
Did you know, that you can make any object the "point of reference" and stabilize it in your model so that everything else appears to be moving around it? You can do this with any object, even your body or a shoe. You can take an object and make it the center, and then everything will appear to be moving around it, it is something called perspective. You can take a comet in space and make it the point of reference and perspective and say it is the center and then the whole Universe can be rushing around it. This is very easy to do, which makes the idea of "geocentrism" and "heliocentrism" irrelevant ultimately. Everything is "moving", the sun isn't the "center" either and there is no "center" , but the "modern scientists" prefer the model with the sun stabilized because of how it explains some of the orbits of the planets more effectively for them. Though it will known (or should be) that you can take any position and make it the central point and say everything is moving around it.
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Peace Ted. Maybe you would interested with this model.
http//wiki.tfes.org/images/thumb/7/70/SunAnimation.gif/180px-SunAnimation.gif
An animation of the day/night cycle
You could read further explanation about this model in here http//wiki.tfes.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions
May Allah bless you.
That doesn't explain the changes in the moon's shadow seen around the whole world (those are explained by the Earth creating a rounded shadow on the moon due to its round shape when the sun is behind the Earth). The sun also doesn't have such a limited field of light as the picture shows, so that it would always be day on the surface of the Earth while the moon remains visible.
Don't think I am doing this to bother you, its out of caring that I'm trying to explain these things.
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Salaam truthseeker,
I have reached further in my research and salateh does have nothing to do with connection or prayer or whatever one wishes to use as interpretation acrobatics. That does not say that the word to pray does not exist in Quran, but salateh is simply not that one.
Aquyum assalateh means to mind one's ways. It is also actually a valid source from lexicons that the root has a definition that is "to follow". The word as I interpret means in the word before suffixing Follow To Be. The morpheme level analytical method is slightly hard, but it is astonishingly accurate once you learn the exact meaning of each letter (which I have not for all letters yet despite improvements).
The result is that the prophets did not instruct their children to any ritual or meditation but simply to good ways.
And go ponder upon the so-called initials of Quran if you doubt my method. Why are in chapter 38 and 68 they followed by a conjunction and sole letters?
Salaam
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Freedom,
Why do you have to deal with me instead of trying to learn?
And why do you ignore the fact that your being here is to find he right spiritual attunement? Do you deny that you should avoid indulgence in the worldly matters because you will be living in another less fleshly world when you die if you manage to find the spirit. You bring nothing of the material things with you, not even your body (so no reason for expensive plastic surgery).
And I acknowledge that God is the only being in existence so what is your problem with me. Are you stuck on formalities?
And it is very beautiful both mine and Jesus' message; to be spiritually in affinity and do the will of the Creator. Why do you argue this notion? When you merge with that consciousness this is what happens.
Salaam
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The sun does not revolve around the Earth. This can quite easily be refuted by science and in that through empirical studies which hardly can be refuted in themselves.
It is madness if someone tries to argue this notion in 2014. And if Quran attempts to argue this position then the interpretation is more than likely wrong, just like it is in general.
I have heard some people even argue that the Earth is flat.
Salaam
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The sun does not revolve around the Earth. This can quite easily be refuted by science and in that through empirical studies which hardly can be refuted in themselves.
At least you could see with your eyes that the sun is moving. I hope you won't lie about it.
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So you are convinced by religious people that the Earth is flat and the sun revolves around it. Oh God in that case.
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So you are convinced by religious people that the Earth is flat and the sun revolves around it. Oh God in that case.
Allah Who made me aware about this. Praise be to my Rabb, my Teacher. http//3.bp.blogspot.com/-yH4Y8RvQvqc/TvjOQgHW6eI/AAAAAAAAAic/X5vEH21CXEA/s400/heart%2Bemoticon.png
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No, I'd probably be able to communicate with Man of Faith better if he was a Sufi Mystic but his system is developed through what he tells me was a pretty difficult process of figuring out the "meaning of each letter" somehow, maybe by looking at other words that use those single letters (I'm not sure on this or how he derived the meanings of the letters or how the initials of the Qur'an like Alif Laam Ra helped, but he said they helped somehow), then adding those meanings together or combining them to come out with a message surprisingly similar to the New Testament Bible which he considers as presenting a more accurate message than the Qur'an (in its current translations), he bases his idea of "accuracy" it seems on the belief that there is only God (which is fine by me so far) but that we must work towards this spiritual assimilation and leaving behind of matter to enter a purely spiritual realm of non-material non-bodily experiences (so in this sense similar to the Gnostics, though he doesn't like to be associated with Gnosticism).
We're fine with Valentinianism if it is understood in a careful way, but dealing with Man of Faith can be incredibly difficult since we don't have access to his lexicon or codex of letter meanings.Basically it is almost a sure bet that the Qur'an will almost never say what it is normally translated to say, and it must say something Pauline in nature in order to be "accurate", but even Paul would have been willing to accept the Old Testament and generally had the normal or common understanding of it, whereas nothing is true at all unless it speaks of the "spiritual assimilation" and "leaving behind of matter/beast body" that Man of Faith has determined (how?) is more "accurate" than things that don't say that (how though? how can you tell if one is true and the other isn't?).
So that is a brief little history of Man of Faith.
He hasn't completed his studies or made any codex as far as I know, so one is left "taking his word for it" and trusting that he has studied diligently to determine the meanings of single letters somehow (how exactly?)
Peace FreedomStands
I will leave the jury out until Man of Faith produces proof of his claims, at the moment
I can only say he has been deluded and has fallen into Hislam or his own personal
version of Islam. As you stated earlier some folks don't like the reality of life made clear in
the Quran, like the necessity to kill 2/251 so they prefer an alternative to what Allah has revealed
3/78.Should we ask you if your cristal ball is always so unpleasant?
If it is doing guess work at least it should try to say nice things, and not punh whatever it finds just for the sake of punching. What does it know about what anybody would say if something of the kind were to be voiced now or in 4000 years from now. Just punching for the sake of punching.
Peace huruf, Ted had nothing left but frustration so he resorted to name calling which I find
entertaining. rotflWhy not? Do you have problem with it?
This truth makes me happy because the Qur'an truly support it. )
Praise be to Allah for this lovely earth.JavaLatte please supply verses where Allah says the earth is flat. nope
May God bless you all
peace
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- Regarding q-t-l, not even in dictionnaries or good grammars is kill given as the only meaning or even the foremost. I have also my reservations regarding the the kill meaning. In fact I do not agree with the automatic meaning of kill, no. As to the possibility that it may strictly and BASICALLY mean kill in any occasion, I hve reservations, and I stress the BASICALLY.
Like in the aya 2.251 mentionned by FS. As far as I can see as to the basic meaning of the aya, the important part is not whether Dawood killed Jaaluut, but whether hw overpowered him and prevailed. Whether jaaluut was undone through killing, or through being vanquished, or through any means containing him, the gist of the aya would be the same. I am not sure the aya, IN ITSELF, makes it obligatory that Jaaluut should have been killed by Dawood, any of the other possibilities I mention would do too. What if jaaluut was killed and in spite of his being killed his party or his stance won? Wouldn't that have defeated the meaning of the aya?
I am not speaking by myself, as I say this q-t-l = kill is denied by real masters or Arabic. It is one of the means by which the basic meaning of q-t-l may be attained, but it is not the BASIC.
It is a bit like the d-r-b thing, which basically means doing something decisive to attain a result. For a mental sept up in which beating the hell out of somebody is the surest and quikest way to get anything done, d-r-b may mean beat. To a person with a bit more of brain, it will not, suh an idea will curtail enourmously the possibility of solving something thoroughly.
- The Qur'an is not a science book and it does not intend to teah science to anybody, but rather to push the reader to reflect and study by her or himself everything around her or him and everything within him or herself.
That said, if the Qur'an says something, it is necessarily true and knowledgeable. We may not yet have the means to understand it for what it is, or we may never have them, but wront it is not. However it seems that people who like to pick on Qur'an, undefectively use explanations or trnaslations made by men to something they could not grasp to replace what the Qur'an itself says, and mean that when readers of Qur'an correct what other readers of Qur'an have wrongly explained necessarilly those later intend to save the Qur'an from its own mistakes. That is, those qur'an pickers uphold the truth of past readers of Qur'an as if it was sacred. And then we get upset at wahabis and the like. They are the same kind of fools. They paly at being clever against others, but they do not get any more knowledgeable nor any wiser. They are such for such.
Also there is the fact that upon the believers there is a duty to learn and try to understand, but there is not duty whatsoever of getting the right answers to everything.
Only God is God, we creatures are strivers, or we should be.
Salaam
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So I have become deluded?
What if there rather is a delusion where 99% of people have fallen victim.
I like what Quran says, and then I mean what it really says. This is not really my opinion that I come around with. I asked you to ponder upon the so-called initials of Quran but you seem to have failed to do so.
Salaam -
So I have become deluded?
What if there rather is a delusion where 99% of people have fallen victim.
I like what Quran says, and then I mean what it really says. This is not really my opinion that I come around with. I asked you to ponder upon the so-called initials of Quran but you seem to have failed to do so.
SalaamWell your understanding does seem deluded but I can see why. Maybe you're just trying to see things in the Quran to make it fit what you want it to say. I personally want the Quran to say that the earth does not rotate hence it's the sun and stars that revolve around the earth. For me this would be a great sign from God to counter the non-believers. I'd love to see what arguments the non-believers would have if this were to be found to be true.
So what is it about killing in the Quran that you object to? When the prophet was ordered to go into battle at Badr did not God give the command that they need to kill the enemy?
Did God not order the Jews who worshipped the golden calf to kill themselves?
Does God not command life for life when someone has been murdered?
Maybe you want to justify to the non-muslims that the Quran is not violent hence anything to do with killing and fighting you want to re-interpret to something else.