Is there a single Muslim on this whole website?
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Salaam Man of Faith,
Thank you for your understanding.
I have reached further in my research and salateh does have nothing to do with connection or prayer or whatever one wishes to use as interpretation acrobatics. That does not say that the word to pray does not exist in Quran, but salateh is simply not that one.
I agree that "salat" does not mean "prayer" in al-quran. The word for prayer in al-quran/the reading is "du'a". I think salat is a way to establish a connection with the infinite Creator. This is proved by the following sign
1187 They said "O Shu'ayb, does your salat command you that we leave what our fathers served, or that we do not do with our money as we please? It seems only you are the compassionate, the wise!"
How else can salat command someone without establishing a connection with the infinite Creator and studying, pondering and reflecting on its signs?
I challenge anyone in the world to fit their understanding of salat in 1187 and see if it makes sense.
Aquyum assalateh means to mind one's ways. It is also actually a valid source from lexicons that the root has a definition that is "to follow". The word as I interpret means in the word before suffixing Follow To Be. The morpheme level analytical method is slightly hard, but it is astonishingly accurate once you learn the exact meaning of each letter (which I have not for all letters yet despite improvements).
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I think "amalu salehin" as in 262 refer to minding one's ways by doing good.
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Also "mind one's ways" is a neutral word. Ways can be good or bad. If it meant "mind one's ways" it should have been followed by "salehin" like "aqimi al-salaat al-salehin". Otherwise "mind one's ways" can easily mean "mind one's evil ways".
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How does minding one's ways "command you" as per 1187?
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Minding one's ways is a continuous action and not limited to certain times of the day. How can you mind your ways only at certain times of the day as per 1778 and 11114 where words such as "al-shams", "al-nahaar", "al-layl" are used which clearly refer to certain times of the day?
If those signs don't refer to certain times of the day then we are living in "Alice in wonderland" where anything can mean anything one desires! Then someone can say that in English "murder" means "making happy" using morpheme analyses and anyone can make any word mean anything they want using their secret letter meanings. That will open a door to complete chaos and give a free license for misinterpretation!
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If salat means "mind one's ways", then where in al-quran has the infinite Creator told us how to uphold a connection with it?
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How can one remember the infinite Creator by minding one's ways (2914)?
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What is the source of your secret innate letter meanings other than taking your word for it? How is that different from conjecture? (6116, 1036). Where is your proof? (2875)
The result is that the prophets did not instruct their children to any ritual or meditation but simply to good ways.
I never said salat is a ritual and I never said salat is only meditation. In my post I clearly told you that in my opinion salat included 3 things, not just meditation or channeling the infinite Creator.
Of course the prophets instructed to good ways and the term used for that in al-quran is "amalu salehin", not "salat".
And go ponder upon the so-called initials of Quran if you doubt my method. Why are in chapter 38 and 68 they followed by a conjunction and sole letters?
The initials can mean anything and nowhere has the infinite Creator told us what the initials mean. What is the source of your secret meanings other than conjecture? What is your proof that Arabic letters mean what you think they mean? Was it a direct "wahi"/channeling to you from the infinite Creator about what the letters mean?
I do, however, agree with you that we are going to be in a less physically dense and more spiritual world in the life hereafter in our journey to eventual complete shedding of the physical body and assimilation with the infinite Creator.
May the infinite Creator bless you for all your efforts.
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Peace Man of Faith,
And why do you ignore the fact that your being here is to find he right spiritual attunement? Do you deny that you should avoid indulgence in the worldly matters because you will be living in another less fleshly world when you die if you manage to find the spirit. You bring nothing of the material things with you, not even your body (so no reason for expensive plastic surgery).
And I acknowledge that God is the only being in existence so what is your problem with me. Are you stuck on formalities?
And it is very beautiful both mine and Jesus' message; to be spiritually in affinity and do the will of the Creator. Why do you argue this notion? When you merge with that consciousness this is what happens.
Well said bravo
May the infinite Creator bless you.
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I do, however, agree with you that we are going to be in a less physically dense and more spiritual world in the life hereafter in our journey to eventual complete shedding of the physical body and assimilation with the infinite Creator.
I don't think so. Our souls are already of the "spiritual" kind. Our souls were created then brought into the reality of creation where all the angels, jinns, earth and universe exist. Our souls observe/interact with the physical universe with our bodies. My assumption is that this model of creation applies to most if not all of creation. The angels have a soul but with a body which is made of light. The jinns have a body made of smokeless fire. Animals have a soul with a body as well. I think even the sky and earth does so as well.
On Judgement Day there's going to be destruction of the existing physical bodies, both human, earth, stars, sky, etc. and it will be recreated into a new physical one. This will be similar but better and they will run with similar but new laws. There will be no decay/death in the hereafter. Everything will be beautiful. Those are successful and make it to heaven will get to see God through their physical eyes. I think they will see a representation of God since God is difficult to be comprehended by finite beings - this is just my opinion. We will see/interact with trees and greenery and buildings and roads and lakes and rivers, etc. Just like we do on earth. Except that those things will be of far better quality.
So I don't think we'll be going towards a spiritual reality. This is the reality that all creation lives in and this is the one that we will wake up on resurrection day. Things will look different but we'll have the same concepts and similar things as we do in this world. I think the Quran makes this pretty clear.
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Just to make it clear I am not saying that if you don't pray to God you will not make it into heaven. My understanding is that even those who pray 5 times a day or even more may not get into heaven since they may have committed adultery and not repented, they may have murdered someone, they may have been really bad. It could be that someone who has not prayed regular may have been doing really good things and them good deeds may simply get them in heaven.
However I think it makes it difficult for one to call themselves a muslim or follower of the Quran. You could call yourself a believer in God but to call yourself a muslim I think is a bit incorrect.
Salam Ted.
Sorry for a bit delay, seems like the thread has moved on to many different directions. May I pick up from where we left?
Based on your above statement (especially para 1) you seem to really have moved on from ?worshiping Allah, the deity of Islam? to ?being slave to Allah, the Master of the universe?. That is a HUGE step. Since you have taken this step I hope and pray that Merciful Allah will show you the way out of darkness to light.
2256 There is no compulsion in the resolution (ِ. Verily, right has become clearly distinct from the error ? then whoever represses (faith) in deity (ِ and has faith in Allah has grasped the most firm handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Listener, Knowledgeable.
2257 Allah is the patron of those who have faith; He brings them out from darkness into light. And those who repress (faith) ? their patrons are the deities ( they bring them out from light into darkness; they are the ones ? the society of the fire; they will be in there permanently.
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
However, from your second para it seems that you still have some confusions left. Let me try to help you overcome these confusions. If our Master wills our discussions will be mutually beneficial to both of us.
You are saying, ?I think it makes it difficult for one to call themselves a muslim or follower of the Quran??
Do you mean ?muslim? is the name of a ?follower of Quran?? Where do you get this understanding? Qur?an repeatedly calls Abraham the precise muslim ? was he a follower of Quran?While you think about this, let me go back to one of your earlier comments which sparked this interesting discussions and investigate it from the light of Qur?an.
You said
Being good does not automatically make you muslim. Being good AND worshipping your Creator alone makes you a muslim. So the pagans might have been good but by worshipping idols makes them unbelievers. Same goes for the atheists.
You also clarified that by worshipping you mean ?praying?.
This implies, you consider ?Doing Good? and ?Praying to God alone? as two independent mutually exclusive criteria for one to be a muslim and from Qur?an we know that being muslim is the minimum requirement for salvation. So, in turn it implies ?Doing Good? and ?Praying to God (alone)? as two independent mutually exclusive criteria for salvation. And whoever does these 2 is a muslim.
I would disagree with this assertion, and say that ?Doing Good" (i.e. acting righteously) per our God gifted conscience is the ONLY mandatory criterion for being muslim, and praying is only a means toward that end.
I am elaborating my stance
383 So, do they seek (ways) besides Allah?s resolution (ِ, while whatever is in the heavens and the earth have submitted to Him willingly or under compulsion, and they will be returned to Him?
384 Say, ?We have faith in Allah and what is sent down on us and what was sent down on Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes and what was given to Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Master. We do not differentiate among any of them and we are submissive (َ to Him.
385 And whoever seeks a resolution (ا other than peace/submission (ِ then never will (it) be accepted from him and in the hereafter he will be among the losers.
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
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From the quoted verses 383-85, it is clear to me, that ?whatever is in the heavens and the earth have submitted to Allah willingly or under compulsion??. Does it mean, whatever is in the heavens and the earth ?do good? and ?pray to God?? Do Good yes? because everything (except selected humans/jins) willingly follow their God gifted senses/nature. So they are good or submit to God simply by following their God gifted nature. But ?praying? is irrelevant for a lifeless object or an animal. Since the verse takes this very example to be the ?reason? why humans should ?also? be muslim?? it should suffice for a human to be muslim simply by following their God gifted senses of right and wrong which is built into every human soul - be he an aborigine living in jungle or a secular child born in an irreligious family. The knowledge of God or God (alone) and various moods of prayers are products of learning and culture ? they cannot be considered inherent part of human existence against which the Wise and Just Master of universe would held each human responsible.
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YES Qur?an does tell us to pray. But Why? Let?s hear from Qur?an shall we?
2186 And when My slaves ask you about Me, then indeed I am near. I respond to invitations of the supplicant when he calls Me, So let them respond to Me and let them have faith in Me so that they may be guided aright.
(My personal translation, emphasis added, cross checking is recommended.)
So, clearly purpose of ?praying? is so that we can be guided aright by virtue of which we can end up doing good and being muslim. Thus praying remains a recommended method in Qur?an for seeking God?s help in staying on right course, IT IS NOT AN END IN ITSELF.
Thus I am convinced, PRAYING is the best or recommended method for one person to be guided aright but it is NOT the only method. Our Master guides to the straight route whomever He wills. The end result that does matter is who can be guided aright and live a righteous life.
Then what do I have to say about those who pray to other than God or to an incorrect idea of God? Let me share my understanding. If they are praying out of ignorance, but when comes to taking moral decisions they still submit to Allah by upholding their God-gifted senses of right and wrong then they are muslim ? who are ignorant (zahil). Their ignorance is a vice which makes them highly susceptible to deviation, but the ignorance cannot be a crime by itself. However, if they are praying to someone other than God or some artificial deity to circumvent their God gifted senses of right and wrong (e.g. ISIS / BOKO Haram who are pray to deity ?Allah? who want them to do inhuman things), or so that the ?partner? can negotiate with Allah and give them leeway from acting righteously (e.g. the "Crusaders"/Nazis hoped that Jesus would shield them against whatever crime they commit against humanity) ? then and only then they are committing ?Shirk? which goes down as an ?Unforgivable sin.? - unless they truly repent and revert in time.
That?s all for now ? I?d look forward to discuss with you if you want to continue this discussion.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
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Truthseeker,
No, the initials cannot mean anything. No comprehensible text would have a sole letter and then a conjunction straight after that. The letters DO mean to carry a meaning of their own.
refers to follow/conceive what is good, while refers to follow/conceive mere being, i.e. your ways. I said behavior before, but this has been used against me in all sorts of arguments such as ambiguity.
The letter itself means good and that is why it is used in all sorts of root words that refer to good in ways. Want examples? , . Obviously they do not mean the same, but they utilize 'good' to form what they want to convey. Note that 'good' is an interpretation and that the letters are of the simplest possible abstract meaning.
The people ask Shu'ayb if his ways mean they have to do this or that. Not that he channeled or had connection by that word.
Mind one's ways is a general expression if you know. It is timeless. It is just what a majority of people fail to keep in mind.
And look, the word means "conceive to be", how you lead your life. If you want to be evil that is your choice, but it is pretty obvious if someone tells you to mind who you are then you know what is expected. Salawa refers to just that. And the message in Quran is just that about finding the right spirit. And that you do if you realize who you are.
Salaam
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I would disagree with this assertion, and say that ?Doing Good" (i.e. acting righteously) per our God gifted conscience is the ONLY mandatory criterion for being muslim, and praying is only a means toward that end.
Salamun Alaikum.
I would like to propose a small correction in the above statement
I would disagree with this assertion, and say that ?Doing Good" (i.e. acting righteously) with due sincerety per our God gifted conscience is the ONLY mandatory criterion for being muslim, and praying is only a means toward that end.
It was important to make this correction because doing good with the intention of show-off may not be sufficient for being muslim / salvation.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Harmony be with you truthseeker,
Of course the prophets instructed to good ways and the term used for that in al-quran is "amalu
salehin", not "salat".
You need to see the distinction between minding who you are and a friendly approach. is meaning what you suggest, but you need to draw the distinction between that and salateh. Salateh refers to your way of life or lifestyle if you want to choose a relatively modern English word. I hope you can see the distinction.
The phrase that God says to Moses was not "I am with you as long as you uphold salateh as in prayer or even connection" but God said to Moses "I am with you as long as you mind who you are, i.e. mind how you lead your life.
And the root does not have a variety of meanings in Arabic but it only means mind as in mind's attention.
- How can one remember the infinite Creator by minding one's ways (2914)?
First of all it is important that also has a distorted meaning in common interpretations and does not mean remember but it means regard/focus/attention. Paying attention to this makes that example perfectly rendered (although it seems you gave reference to the wrong passage).
Of course you criticizers make the life painful to me, but well it is a quite difficult seat I am in to turn something right that has been distorted for over 1000 years and then make people listen to me. I need to shower people with all sorts of indications/signs to an overwhelming magnitude. I already shower people with inconsistency in the mainstream interpretations/translations, provide the true interpretation in a sensible way and also explain the original inconsistency.
Just look at the mainstream interpretation of q - t - l as to meaning kill. It does not make sense all the time at all.
Please look at these passages. Please look carefully and with your maximum logical ability to think
429 O you who believe, do not consume your money between you unjustly, unless it is through a trade which is mutually agreed by you. And do not kill yourselves; God is Merciful towards you.
430 And whoever does so out of animosity and transgression, We will cast him to a Fire; and this for God is very easy.If you cannot see something that is not right here then you are a victim to religionism. No author would be considered a good writer if they released a book containing this contextual mismatch.
First it allegedly speaks of no usury and then turn over to do not kill yourselves. But it is not over there, in the next passage it starts again with a conjunction and speaks about the usury again. Do you accept that?
If you have any sense you will instantly think something is wrong there. I know what is wrong in this sentence, and the errors are more than one in just the phrase about "and do not kill yourselves". Here you have a most controversial statement by me however, but this is that does not mean 'not'. That was not the point in this passage, but turning that right is needed to make most sense out of it. is used in this passage, and it means 'convince', Express Entity
To, which means that you should convince yourselves that this is ultimately wrong.
Same word is used when Moses is speaking to Allah and instead of speaking of that they sought to kill Moses, Moses speaks in doubt because he says that he has already tried to convince them but they did not let themselves be convinced by him. And he speaks of Aaron who is a better speaker than him.
Moses were trying to speak about Allah already before when he was in Mesr, but he got no positive response. This is part the reason why he is on the run, because he got no support when they tried to persecute him.
And you asked whether I channel information from God? God does not 100% exactly work that way but it is rather an assimilation with the "realm" of God, much like that Jesus speaks of in the Biblical Gospels. At best I can say like Jesus "I am in the Creator and the Creator is in me", but I am not near as merged as Jesus was. I have personal aspects to work on before I can consider myself that, which are actually spoken of in Qur'an. This symbiotic state is pretty much the meaning of the word. And the famous 'la Elah ila Allah' does also refer to this phenomenon, if you reconsider the 'la' meaning in the proper light. And the Allah word means to thereby be, i.e. "Be To Thereby Be" in a grammatical parsing. Consider then the phrase "B'sm Allah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem" and see that Allah is very very abstract and the focus should actually be on the root that comes after. literally means "in/with spirit/consciousness thereof". This is also why naming your children in Middle-Eastern culture is serious business. If you read the Biblical scriptures, the parents always name their children due to a reason in their lives or a vision they have about their children.
And to go back to the original question in the above paragraph, I have had no dialog with God no. It is not like every person speaks directly with the Creator. Usually the kind of communication works on inspirational level. And I am by far not yet perfected in God, so I do not have the prerequisites. But if you can appreciate my works to any extent, I suppose you can see that I have a connection with God in one way or another.
And the word you are looking for in terms of connection/nearness/proximity with God then you are looking for the wrong word. You are looking for , it means "Attached Condition/state Person ". is a special letter, should be treated as separate from because in the latter you have a specified character. And should you look for the real word for guidance which I just erased, you should be looking for , normally used in the narration.
Salaam
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And, dear truthseeker, please check an Arabic dictionary for the word and you shall find that one of the alternative definitions is "to follow". That is distinctively different from connection/contact. The composition of (salateh) makes it reflexive and an abstract object/concrete noun". Pay attention to that the word uses which is an Entity rather than the entity. And is a compound of the letters and in succession. Depending on what makes most sense to you then Perceive/Conceive/Follow To Be Entity/Character Thereby. Obviously it is not meant to be read in such a dull way, but it was in a demonstrative sense. I summarize it as 'ways or (life) perception'. How you act before others.
It should be noted that the other word that you referred to also has a similar meaning because it starts the same way, i.e. . Just imagine yourself. Perceive/conceive/follow To Good. It indicates that you have an intuition/feeling of what is good.
Salaam
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First it allegedly speaks of no usury and then turn over to do not kill yourselves. But it is not over there, in the next passage it starts again with a conjunction and speaks about the usury again. Do you accept that?
I now see what the problem is with your interpretation of the Quran. Basically you derive a meaning which most (if not all) other translators/readers don't derive and then use that to justify your own view. I have not seen any well known translation which mentions usury in verse 429. If I have missed it please to provide a reference to it.
I find it bizarre that you quote from your own private translation and then ask others to go and check it. Check it where? Have you published it? Has it been reviewed by others? How do you know if you have thought everything through.
For me verses 429-30 are simply saying don't spend your wealth among yourselves wrongly, spend it among yourselves in mutual consent with agreement. Don't use wealth to kill or destroy one another.
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4.29.
Obviously, in spite of the "sacred" meaning of "kill" assigned to the verb qatala overall, in this aya it is clearly not so, even for My name is Ted, since he quotes a translation that gives it as destroy, and which goes to show that the meaning of qatala uniformly given as kill, as happen with so many arabic words is not a neat pack with square sides which does not allow anything but that. Rather it is a wide concept, akin to undoing, which actualises depending on the context, again like tos many words in Arabic. And to make it always mean qatala is simply and without question an error.
Salaam
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Ted,
It is a scam nevertheless, in that passage. Please read the subsequent passage. The do not kill yourself does not work there no matter how hard you try unless you are dishonest to yourself and wish to follow lies blindly.
Of course the letter interpretation has no sources because it is I who discovered it. I am conducting research about it as we speak and I usually go here (this forum) to ventilate my thoughts. It is not like I just take a random word and then just say "It means this! I know it!". I reflect and think upon a word sometimes for hours at a time and also cross-check it several times to see if it works in a context. And sometimes I notice a word sounds wrong, but I cannot pinpoint what is wrong until much later. does mean "to convince" after months of trying. If it does not suit a context that it because the original interpretation is needing reinterpretation. Based on that I know much of classical Arabic grammar knowledge is incorrect, this invites for much misconception and also criticism that I have to deal with simultaneously.
The more I work the more I realize many of the stories are interpretation acrobatics of the past to force a meaning out of an innocent context. One is that Moses killed a man prior to his flight from Mesr. Some Jewish sources, including Josepheus does not even mention it, although according to that testament then Moses faces conspiracy because people of the Egyptians in general see him as a threat to their dominance, and as I see, the Children of Israel did not believe him either. It is then that God says to Moses to go there and say 'I am has sent me' as well as show them the signs with the staff and the white hand. From this you also have the Allah term (Be To Thereby (be)) which is Elohim in Hebrew, with both and and being grammatical functions, leaving only to be the actual God word. The same is true for Allah, i.e. is the actual God word (to be). The grammatical function means to be (lit. Be To).
There you have the famous Allah word in a nutshell. It took months to analyze and make sense in what it means. It is third person of "I am that am I" used in the Biblical narration, which I already knew months ago. I just needed how to explain it based on what I know.
But I suppose you will not be able to digest it anyway. Hopefully someone else can and if I wrote this without knowing it is a public forum I would have refrained due to it being pointless.
Salaam
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Ted,
It is a scam nevertheless, in that passage. Please read the subsequent passage. The do not kill yourself does not work there no matter how hard you try unless you are dishonest to yourself and wish to follow lies blindly.
Of course the letter interpretation has no sources because it is I who discovered it. I am conducting research about it as we speak and I usually go here (this forum) to ventilate my thoughts. It is not like I just take a random word and then just say "It means this! I know it!". I reflect and think upon a word sometimes for hours at a time and also cross-check it several times to see if it works in a context. And sometimes I notice a word sounds wrong, but I cannot pinpoint what is wrong until much later. does mean "to convince" after months of trying. If it does not suit a context that it because the original interpretation is needing reinterpretation. Based on that I know much of classical Arabic grammar knowledge is incorrect, this invites for much misconception and also criticism that I have to deal with simultaneously.
The more I work the more I realize many of the stories are interpretation acrobatics of the past to force a meaning out of an innocent context. One is that Moses killed a man prior to his flight from Mesr. Some Jewish sources, including Josepheus does not even mention it, although according to that testament then Moses faces conspiracy because people of the Egyptians in general see him as a threat to their dominance, and as I see, the Children of Israel did not believe him either. It is then that God says to Moses to go there and say 'I am has sent me' as well as show them the signs with the staff and the white hand. From this you also have the Allah term (Be To Thereby (be)) which is Elohim in Hebrew, with both and and being grammatical functions, leaving only to be the actual God word. The same is true for Allah, i.e. is the actual God word (to be). The grammatical function means to be (lit. Be To).
There you have the famous Allah word in a nutshell. It took months to analyze and make sense in what it means. It is third person of "I am that am I" used in the Biblical narration, which I already knew months ago. I just needed how to explain it based on what I know.
But I suppose you will not be able to digest it anyway. Hopefully someone else can and if I wrote this without knowing it is a public forum I would have refrained due to it being pointless.
Salaam
Also if you turn the Hebrew YHWH upside down and flip it or something it looks like the Arabic "Allah" kind of.
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Freedom,
Not sure if that was meant as sarcasm because such emphasis is hard to read in text format, but not likely. YHWH sounds like another word with another meaning. It looks like something that indicates Creator or Sustainer without further research on the real Hebrew letters.
Elohim is a series of various suffixes after the initial El. If you speak about the El of a person in Hebrew you say Elohi and when you refer to people you say Elohim. And if you simply call out from first person singular you say 'el'.
And both Allah and Elohim takes the origin as third person of "I am that am I" which was used in the Book of Moses in the Bible.
It refers as a help for people with understanding of how the realm of the Creator works.
Probably the definition was used to avoid confusion and the removal of gods, but apparently it did not work, for Paganism is still prevalent 4000 years later. Jesus had trouble conveying these facts as well. The main reason now is because people in general have a misrepresenting text they refer to. Not even the Jewish remnant of the "Commandments" are parsed in the right way. When it happened is hard to say, but I know Paganism and the visualization of a God image was also prevalent during Jesus.
Salaam
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But ?praying? is irrelevant for a lifeless object or an animal.
Thanks for your detailed response. I see that I need to give a more detailed explanation of my understanding of the Quran to explain my thinking. That is going to take a bit of time in order for me to collect my thoughts and put in words which can be easy to understand.
Whilst I do that I'd like for you to ponder over the following verses
2441 Seest thou not that it is God Whose praises all beings in the heavens and on earth do celebrate, and the birds (of the air) with wings outspread? Each one knows its own (mode of) prayer and praise. And God knows well all that they do.
4111 Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke He said to it and to the earth "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
2218 Seest thou not that to Allah bow down in worship all things that are in the heavens and on earth,- the sun, the moon, the stars; the hills, the trees, the animals; and a great number among mankind? But a great number are (also) such as are fit for Punishment and such as Allah shall disgrace,- None can raise to honour for Allah carries out all that He wills.
- Yusuf Ali
I believe your understanding is that the sky, sun, stars, moon, earth, etc are all lifeless. That the animals don't "pray". However I believe the above verses say the opposite. It seems that the things in the heaven and the earth itself do salat to God. I say salat because that's what it is in the Quran and I don't want to confuse it with prayer which can mean supplication to God which is different.
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Freedom,
Not sure if that was meant as sarcasm because such emphasis is hard to read in text format, but not likely. YHWH sounds like another word with another meaning. It looks like something that indicates Creator or Sustainer without further research on the real Hebrew letters.
Elohim is a series of various suffixes after the initial El. If you speak about the El of a person in Hebrew you say Elohi and when you refer to people you say Elohim. And if you simply call out from first person singular you say 'el'.
And both Allah and Elohim takes the origin as third person of "I am that am I" which was used in the Book of Moses in the Bible.
It refers as a help for people with understanding of how the realm of the Creator works.
Probably the definition was used to avoid confusion and the removal of gods, but apparently it did not work, for Paganism is still prevalent 4000 years later. Jesus had trouble conveying these facts as well. The main reason now is because people in general have a misrepresenting text they refer to. Not even the Jewish remnant of the "Commandments" are parsed in the right way. When it happened is hard to say, but I know Paganism and the visualization of a God image was also prevalent during Jesus.
Salaam
Did you know that apparently spoken language was before written language? How would the letter theory thing work when people were not only mostly illiterate throughout history, but even before written language when the words "Uhluh" were being pronounced but there was no writing?
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Thanks for your detailed response. I see that I need to give a more detailed explanation of my understanding of the Quran to explain my thinking. That is going to take a bit of time in order for me to collect my thoughts and put in words which can be easy to understand.
Whilst I do that I'd like for you to ponder over the following verses
I believe your understanding is that the sky, sun, stars, moon, earth, etc are all lifeless. That the animals don't "pray". However I believe the above verses say the opposite. It seems that the things in the heaven and the earth itself do salat to God. I say salat because that's what it is in the Quran and I don't want to confuse it with prayer which can mean supplication to God which is different.
Yeah, not many people realize Islam is Animistic in many ways.
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Thanks for your detailed response. I see that I need to give a more detailed explanation of my understanding of the Quran to explain my thinking. That is going to take a bit of time in order for me to collect my thoughts and put in words which can be easy to understand.
Whilst I do that I'd like for you to ponder over the following verses
I believe your understanding is that the sky, sun, stars, moon, earth, etc are all lifeless. That the animals don't "pray". However I believe the above verses say the opposite. It seems that the things in the heaven and the earth itself do salat to God. I say salat because that's what it is in the Quran and I don't want to confuse it with prayer which can mean supplication to God which is different.
Salam Brother Ted.
In case you are solely relying on translations to study Qur'an, may be a good idea would be to start paying attention to the underlying arabic words.
Salatahu (ُ does not mean to "his prayer" (prayer = du'a), rather it means something close to "his respect" and Tasbihahu (ُ does not mean to "his praise" (praise = hamd), rather it means something close to "his glorification". So, in 2441 The birds and trees do not know their "prayer" they know their respect which they establish by being true to their God-gifted nature, and they glorify Allah with their beauty and magnificence, not with their words.
If one can establish respect of Allah by being true to his conscience and intellect in every step of his life and can glorify Allah by being the person that everyone praises and remembers - then that is the best salaat and that is the best tasbih. Prayer and praises uttered in mouth is merely an "utterance of mouth" - they mean nothing till they connect to one's actions.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Ted,
The moon, stars etc etc are not lifeless due to being sustained by the "energy"/"consciousness" of Allah, but they do also not have any soul. They do not speak or think as beings.
And they do not really bow down to Allah but the word used (I suppose you imply sujud?) means in service or obedient.
Salaam
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Ted,
The moon, stars etc etc are not lifeless due to being sustained by the "energy"/"consciousness" of Allah, but they do also not have any soul. They do not speak or think as beings.
And they do not really bow down to Allah but the word used (I suppose you imply sujud?) means in service or obedient.
Salaam
I disagree. According to my understanding of the Quran they do have life. I shall be explaining how. Maybe I have got something wrong.
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You mean a lifeless stone without any organic parts or prerequisite to be animate being has a soul?
It is only part of the world which is sustained by Allah but does only exist in Allah.
Salaam