It seems that true believers are a tiny minority!
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Allah created you to follow Him to the eternal heavenly march from this world onwards and from this moment on - or hereafter. And He has created the eternal hell for those who refuse Allah's guidance. And where we differ is when you say, Allah creates some for hell or some for heaven. I might have mistaken you thus far; but if you accept now that Allah does not create you to falter into hell unless you defy Him and choose to dive headlong into hell.
We cannot judge or weigh others when we cannot or when we are not to assume ourselves to be pure 4/49. All you can do is to seek His guidance for your own goodness. I am your friend helping you to follow Quran through sensible understanding. When I refer an ayat it is to understand and then write comprehending it, juxtaposing it with your nature and conduct.
Allah creates the worlds for you and changes everything from heavens to earth and everything in between by the moment to deliver you from your direction heading towards hell. Allah does not create harm; but Allah allows you to earn your destruction through your own hands, which He has already arranged for in the skies and in the earth and in everything between them for the defying and denying. Thus Allah has created the two directions hell bound and heaven bound. The choice is yours. So you will earn out of what He has preset for those who do good and for those who do evil. So creation is Allah's; earning is ours! This does not mean we have powers; but it is by Allah's decree - the heavens and the earth recompenses us for that which we used to do.
Yes you seem to have misunderstood me, and I only copy pasted what the Qur'an had said about creating for hell, but you never understood my meaning anyway.
You said "Allah does not create harm" but then you talk about Allah creating hell, then you talk about Allah not wanting people to go to hell or implying that. If you don't want people to go somewhere, why would you create the place? Does Allah not accomplish what Allah wants? When I said I was your friend, it is because I was guiding you correctly, I wasn't talking conjecture. I know you think you know what you're talking about, but you should really think about what you are saying. Think also about everything that is "harm" in this Universe, and try to figure out who created it.
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I do not put efforts into the flesh. I am just saying that Allah is not responsible for all the vain things that man create.
However, the Creator made all the substances which these illusive created things are made from and also make sure they are kept sustained, i.e. kept from disintegration. And when something is made, then it is the shape of that illusion which change and which illusive material that is Allah, since Allah is existence itself like a huge sphere.
It is not like it is Allah's idea to make weapons of all sorts like swords or firearms, but that is a bad idea of humans yet it was the platform of Allah that let it be created. But it does not mean that these are goodly items nor that Allah is responsible for the production of the idea of making the weapons.
If you believe that then you are slightly mistaken about how Allah works.
And drfazl has the same idea about it.
Salaam
So you're saying that somehow a thing can exist in some form and Allah has not created it at all in any way? Yeah, drfazl seems to be saying the same thing. That Allah is not the creator of everything, that there are other creative powers that can create things.
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Allah has the power to forgive you; to deliver you out from the evil you have wrought upon you. No one is pure including you; and when such is the evil that we each are, where is the question of judging between right and wrong; and pure and impure! Do not judge or weigh; leave it with Allah and surrender before Him, the only Judge, the Distinguishing, The Most High, Wise.
The whole Quran was given to us and every verse has us individually in it, as the main subject with the entire world surrounding each of us. Do not go by the general thought while you know well that the Quran is meant for him who reads it for want of guidance all through his life. It is not for Muhammad. And if the Quran is for all the prophets, then it is for all of us.
What happens all through my life is Allah creates newer world for me in my every breath; this is what is happening in everyone's each breathing but most fail to perceive. Do not be astonished about this; some day or the other when you keep up constancy, in the guidance of Allah, surely you will come to know of this Truth, before death touches every one of you.
You must use your intelligence and the Qur'an to decide between things, no? I see a baby being killed, but I can't say that is bad? I can't judge it?
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Freedom,
You really complicate things.
Depends on how you see it. If you see only as far as your eyes see, then Allah is clearly the doer of it because it is the illusive physical reality that performs the action to create an artificial item. Yet Allah is not on a mental level not responsible for the mixture of material which forms this artificial item. In that case you have a scapegoat to blame all evil in the world on Allah such as making synthetic drugs or other volatile substances and items. That is not truly Allah Wisely Knowing, is it?
Your logic is also what I criticized before when I said you were disrespectful to Allah because you attribute evil on Allah, because you say Allah is its initiator. But that is an evil spirit and that is not Allah.
Salaam
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You must use your intelligence and the Qur'an to decide between things, no? I see a baby being killed, but I can't say that is bad? I can't judge it?
Judge the incidences based on this respect Allah does not harm any one; but he harms himself. This is Quran. Now gather up all information you have, and muster up every bit of your intelligence to suit this truth; otherwise seek from Allah for enlightenment which will be definitely above and more beautiful as Allah Guides you through His wisdom.
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Yes you seem to have misunderstood me, and I only copy pasted what the Qur'an had said about creating for hell, but you never understood my meaning anyway.
You said "Allah does not create harm" but then you talk about Allah creating hell, then you talk about Allah not wanting people to go to hell or implying that. If you don't want people to go somewhere, why would you create the place? Does Allah not accomplish what Allah wants? When I said I was your friend, it is because I was guiding you correctly, I wasn't talking conjecture. I know you think you know what you're talking about, but you should really think about what you are saying. Think also about everything that is "harm" in this Universe, and try to figure out who created it.
If I have misunderstood then you should have known you should not copy paste the ayats for jesting; but use it only for justified appreciation of the wholesomeness of Allah's attributes. When did you give your appreciative meaning for me to understand with respect to the happenings around us? It is you who say I only copy pasted; do you mean that is copy pasting is your meaning?
Allah does not create harm for you; He has created heavens and hell and not hell alone; He wishes to guide and create the way for the obedient that leads them to heaven; we are to follow His wisdom and stay away from your decomposed information based knowledge - it is because man is created with a purpose i.e., to reach the heaven first to set out on the journey thereafter to His nearness for endless glorious lives ahead stages after stages. Again, we remember Allah does not create harm. If I ask youIf you want to go to hell or heaven you would say heaven, isn't it? and surely you will not say, 'hell'. There cannot be such argument as this because Allah has given me the information 'It is Me, Allah who has created for you hell also, so why don't you visit me there too'. But Allah will say I created for you the heavens; follow me; do not follow the footsteps of shaitan who I had created and end yourself up in hell. This is Allah's word and He would accomplish His Will if you follow the righteousness following Allah.
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Freedom,
You really complicate things.
Depends on how you see it. If you see only as far as your eyes see, then Allah is clearly the doer of it because it is the illusive physical reality that performs the action to create an artificial item. Yet Allah is not on a mental level not responsible for the mixture of material which forms this artificial item. In that case you have a scapegoat to blame all evil in the world on Allah such as making synthetic drugs or other volatile substances and items. That is not truly Allah Wisely Knowing, is it?
Your logic is also what I criticized before when I said you were disrespectful to Allah because you attribute evil on Allah, because you say Allah is its initiator. But that is an evil spirit and that is not Allah.
Salaam
There is no hell either right?
Also, the Qur'an and other scriptures say that God created everything. Even the ships on the sea, which you might credit to humans, and all those things (of course you might not think it says any of that because of your translation technique) so lets talk about your fitness regimen and muscles instead!
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Judge the incidences based on this respect Allah does not harm any one; but he harms himself. This is Quran. Now gather up all information you have, and muster up every bit of your intelligence to suit this truth; otherwise seek from Allah for enlightenment which will be definitely above and more beautiful as Allah Guides you through His wisdom.
Who harms himself? The baby? Allah harms himself?
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If I have misunderstood then you should have known you should not copy paste the ayats for jesting; but use it only for justified appreciation of the wholesomeness of Allah's attributes. When did you give your appreciative meaning for me to understand with respect to the happenings around us? It is you who say I only copy pasted; do you mean that is copy pasting is your meaning?
Allah does not create harm for you; He has created heavens and hell and not hell alone; He wishes to guide and create the way for the obedient that leads them to heaven; we are to follow His wisdom and stay away from your decomposed information based knowledge - it is because man is created with a purpose i.e., to reach the heaven first to set out on the journey thereafter to His nearness for endless glorious lives ahead stages after stages. Again, we remember Allah does not create harm. If I ask youIf you want to go to hell or heaven you would say heaven, isn't it? and surely you will not say, 'hell'. There cannot be such argument as this because Allah has given me the information 'It is Me, Allah who has created for you hell also, so why don't you visit me there too'. But Allah will say I created for you the heavens; follow me; do not follow the footsteps of shaitan who I had created and end yourself up in hell. This is Allah's word and He would accomplish His Will if you follow the righteousness following Allah.
Do you think it was for jest that I showed you? You're the one who keeps taking the meaning in whatever way you did, so I am saying basically that I showed you from the Qur'an where it says that, and you keep attributing it to me, I didn't write that, I copy pasted it from the Qur'an at www.islamawakened.com/quran is what I was saying to you. I think you knew that it was from the Qur'an though right? Since you recognized it was an ayat.
Information was my word for "everything" "all creation" "everything created that is not Allah directly but created by Allah". I designated it that term, you can designate any term to it, even YERT a letter combination that is arbitrary.
Why did God create hell? Who created diseases? When a child is born with some disease or suffers, was it the child who did all this?
If there are things which God doesn't intend, is the suggestion that God makes mistakes or slips up or lets things slip out of control? God can certainly remove the harm, no?
If you loved someone and wanted something good for them, and you saw that they were suffering, would you just leave them to suffer? Is this the kind of friendship you might believe in? Have you ever been to a children's hospital? Is it those children who have done something wrong, even those just born recently? They are experiencing harm, but if it is not intended, is it a slip up? Then why is it that such afflictions are not removed or made to not exist? Who created them and who is responsible for their activities (the existence of and the continued work of these diseases)? I'd like to know the names of these other creators besides Allah.
Are you a believer that you will in advancing stages achieve "Godhood"? Like the Mormons of the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints (LDS Church)?
I truly enjoy your making these pronouncements that you have!
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- it is because man is created with a purpose i.e., to reach the heaven first to set out on the journey thereafter to His nearness for endless glorious lives ahead stages after stages.
peace drfazl,
"- to reach the heaven first - endless journey thereafter"
i have discussed with 'some people' who reject going to heaven instead going to the nearness (inner ring) of God directly (just like the council of ministers for a king - they mean then there is no birth to them) thereby they believe their position becomes endless / eternity. according to them even if they go to heaven or hell they will again take birth which they do not like. they do not want to take births; those births include plant forms, animal forms, etc., this make them more love for animals and plants than men; they equate men with all creations of God; they reject heaven / hell. hence, they strive (rituals) to reach God direct? these people say, "all is by God, we are only his tools, good or bad is done by god"first time i hear, to reach the heaven first and thereafter endless journey i.e nearing God is endless in nature which means we never can near God even though He is near to us. our journey is endless in nearness eternity which should start in this world itself; the first step is qualify to entering heaven with the help of God. now i understand why God talks of heaven / hell in quran the guidance to reach heaven with His help and to avoid hell with His protection.
all praises to my God, the Lord of the eternity.
peace.
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Do you think it was for jest that I showed you? You're the one who keeps taking the meaning in whatever way you did, so I am saying basically that I showed you from the Qur'an where it says that, and you keep attributing it to me, I didn't write that, I copy pasted it from the Qur'an at www.islamawakened.com/quran is what I was saying to you. I think you knew that it was from the Qur'an though right? Since you recognized it was an ayat.
Information was my word for "everything" "all creation" "everything created that is not Allah directly but created by Allah". I designated it that term, you can designate any term to it, even YERT a letter combination that is arbitrary.
Why did God create hell? Who created diseases? When a child is born with some disease or suffers, was it the child who did all this?
If there are things which God doesn't intend, is the suggestion that God makes mistakes or slips up or lets things slip out of control? God can certainly remove the harm, no?
If you loved someone and wanted something good for them, and you saw that they were suffering, would you just leave them to suffer? Is this the kind of friendship you might believe in? Have you ever been to a children's hospital? Is it those children who have done something wrong, even those just born recently? They are experiencing harm, but if it is not intended, is it a slip up? Then why is it that such afflictions are not removed or made to not exist? Who created them and who is responsible for their activities (the existence of and the continued work of these diseases)? I'd like to know the names of these other creators besides Allah.
Are you a believer that you will in advancing stages achieve "Godhood"? Like the Mormons of the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints (LDS Church)?
I truly enjoy your making these pronouncements that you have!
Freedom,
I agree with you that everything is from God, But I do not agree with predestination. I hope you too have the same idea.I like the Quranic verse and other ancient thoughts about God's creation and manifestation are in pairs.
Heaven and hell are also part of this creation except Him who is alone, Naturally its the amalgamation of those pairs that becomes ONE. -
Are you a believer that you will in advancing stages achieve "Godhood"? Like the Mormons of the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints (LDS Church)?
I truly enjoy your making these pronouncements that you have!
peace,
'Godhood' according to quran is opted by who are cursed. how can someone following quran wish for 'Godhood'. quran never talks of believing 'Godhood'.
peace
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Freedom,
I agree with you that everything is from God, But I do not agree with predestination. I hope you too have the same idea.I like the Quranic verse and other ancient thoughts about God's creation and manifestation are in pairs.
Heaven and hell are also part of this creation except Him who is alone, Naturally its the amalgamation of those pairs that becomes ONE.Salam brother Amin.
If believing in predestination is too burdensome on your soul, feel free to believe as you like to. Believing matters little, it is faith that really matters. But do remember to make the best use of your "free will" to earn the destiny which you prefer. Perhaps our Master has chosen you among those whom He guides to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salam Araman,
Yes Faith matters most,
If you are supporting that we are predestined to be at heaven or hell, explain it using Quranic verses or other signs please.
My view is I have my free will encapsulated by His predestined will,I think this is an important belief. May be I am wrong. Let Allah guides everyone.
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Salam Amin.
There are many verses of Qur?an which imply predestination. Take for example the followings
7628 Indeed this is a reminder, so whoever wills let him take a path to his Master.
7629 And you do not will accept that Allah wills. Indeed Allah is knowledgeable, wise.
? ? ?
6111 And even if that We would sent down the angels to them, or the dead would speak to them, or We gathered upon them everything affront - they would not happen to have faith unless that Allah willed; on the contrary - most of them are ignorant.
? ? ?
7179 And verily We have produced many of the jinn and the human for the hell. For them are hearts - they do not comprehend with them, and for them are eyes - they do not see with them, and for them are ears - they do not hear with them. They are the ones ? like the (grazing) livestock; no ? they are (even more) deviated; they are the ones ? they are heedless.
(My personal translations, cross checking is recommended.)
Our beliefs are not but a set of assumptions that we like to adhere to make sense of what we perceive. You may believe you have your free will encapsulated by Allah?s predestined will ? if that is the wording you use to rationalize the above, I have no problem with that. I personally believe whatever I will I do so because Allah wills. I am not but a mere reflection of Allah?s will. My life, my consciousness, my free will everything is a mere illusion created by my Master. I strive with my ?free will? and my sincere prayer to earn my destiny (which I believe my Master has already fixed for me), not to create it. Allah is the only truth, the only reality - there is nothing beyond Allah.
If someone can perfectly articulate free will and predestination but uses his understanding as an excuse to give up trying then he has a major problem with his ?faith?. Whatever understanding convinces you to give your 100% effort to strive for good with 100% reliance on Allah ? is a good understanding. So, let?s cut short debates on topic like this, let?s strive to earn our destiny.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salam Arman,
I think yes thats the way Sufi saints explain, like I read somewhere, by standing we can raise our one leg, thats free will and in the same posture we cant raise the other leg, this is God's will.
I just want to understand your views, We are all in a learning process and this forum is a great platform. Let Allah guides everyone.
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Who harms himself? The baby? Allah harms himself?
Allah creates every individual in best fashion from the womb bodily and mind wise, and He breathes His Ruh at birth that has the distinguishing ability. How much this perfection is destroyed by the man made intrusion into the womb, say through the scientific intervention by way instruments, scanners and medicines is anybody's knowledge. Almost all babies if they die, they die at the hands of the ill informed 'specialist' doctors and the shirki parents' arrogance against Allah when they take their children to the hospitals. I think this should answer you, if you think.
Allah harms Himself? Please answer how? Though it is your weird statement, I want to know how you arrived at such a thing.
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Do you think it was for jest that I showed you? You're the one who keeps taking the meaning in whatever way you did, so I am saying basically that I showed you from the Qur'an where it says that, and you keep attributing it to me, I didn't write that, I copy pasted it from the Qur'an at www.islamawakened.com/quran is what I was saying to you. I think you knew that it was from the Qur'an though right? Since you recognized it was an ayat.
Don't you have your answer when you write a post? And when you use an ayat it is not for jesting; there is no point in just copy pasting and posting. When you reference an ayat give the meaning of it and then say how you use it to the presenting discussion with proper first-handed understanding of the ayat yourself, in the first place. You go to your posts and see - how many ayats you playfully write and throw it in black and white. And before writing an ayat you can not write it without having the evidence of its meaning with you as witness, to what you write of an ayat. It is ignominious in the eyes of Allah to say an ayat without individual appreciation of it in his daily life of the person who writes. You are taking the ayats of Allah for fun and sport; nothing else.
Information was my word for "everything" "all creation" "everything created that is not Allah directly but created by Allah". I designated it that term, you can designate any term to it, even YERT a letter combination that is arbitrary.
What is information? What is creation? What is everything? What is Allah? I am sure you will not be able to say your confusion for a definition here. Define it clearly; If you cannot I will. I am waiting for you to become humble or stay true to your ambiguous claim you are informing here the existence of everything that you confuse and conjure up as creation.
Why did God create hell? Who created diseases? When a child is born with some disease or suffers, was it the child who did all this?
Starting from Ayat 1 6 and 7 to the end of the Sura 114 should answer you. God created life and the doctors kill the life; and any deformation in the baby that happens psychically, physiologically and physically is because of the shirki parents and the shirki couple who took their spouses and children to the doctors who believe it is the doctors who create and save the lives. You are unable to think properly because of the corrupted wisdom by the physical knowledge.
If there are things which God doesn't intend, is the suggestion that God makes mistakes or slips up or lets things slip out of control? God can certainly remove the harm, no?
Read 10107, 617 AND 642; 794 and come back here if you do not know the meanings or in your language if you had not had proper information. Let me teach you if you have some substance.
If you loved someone and wanted something good for them, and you saw that they were suffering, would you just leave them to suffer? Is this the kind of friendship you might believe in? Have you ever been to a children's hospital? Is it those children who have done something wrong, even those just born recently?
Read 328; 9;24 and 5822. This is my answer to your friendship issue.
Read 617 and many more such ayats is answer to your children hospital issue and for your shirk.
If you cannot comprehend these ayats, at least try to read 6.42, and 6.43 and 6.44 you will know why all the shirki people suffer hell in the hospitals at the hands of their gods, the docs. Of course you will then inform me, 'Is it not nothingness i.e., Allah for you, who created hospitals? If you ask this question I will give you some more references from Quran.They are experiencing harm, but if it is not intended, is it a slip up? Then why is it that such afflictions are not removed or made to not exist? Who created them and who is responsible for their activities (the existence of and the continued work of these diseases)? I'd like to know the names of these other creators besides Allah.
They are experiencing harm, but if it is not intended, is it a slip up (2/10)? Then why is it that such afflictions are not removed or made to not exist (2/59, 86)? Who created them(2/90) and who is responsible for their activities (the existence of and the continued work (2/114) of these diseases)? I'd like to know the names of these other creators besides Allah.
Are you a believer that you will in advancing stages achieve "Godhood"? Like the Mormons of the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints (LDS Church)?
I truly enjoy your making these pronouncements that you have!
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peace drfazl,
"- to reach the heaven first - endless journey thereafter"
first time i hear, to reach the heaven first and thereafter endless journey i.e nearing God is endless in nature which means we never can near God even though He is near to us. our journey is endless in nearness eternity which should start in this world itself; the first step is qualify to entering heaven with the help of God. now i understand why God talks of heaven / hell in quran the guidance to reach heaven with His help and to avoid hell with His protection.
all praises to my God, the Lord of the eternity.
peace.May Allah bless us all for the clarity and wisdom.
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peace drfazl,
"- to reach the heaven first - endless journey thereafter"
i have discussed with 'some people' who reject going to heaven instead going to the nearness (inner ring) of God directly (just like the council of ministers for a king - they mean then there is no birth to them) thereby they believe their position becomes endless / eternity. according to them even if they go to heaven or hell they will again take birth which they do not like. they do not want to take births; those births include plant forms, animal forms, etc., this make them more love for animals and plants than men; they equate men with all creations of God; they reject heaven / hell. hence, they strive (rituals) to reach God direct? these people say, "all is by God, we are only his tools, good or bad is done by god"first time i hear, to reach the heaven first and thereafter endless journey i.e nearing God is endless in nature which means we never can near God even though He is near to us. our journey is endless in nearness eternity which should start in this world itself; the first step is qualify to entering heaven with the help of God. now i understand why God talks of heaven / hell in quran the guidance to reach heaven with His help and to avoid hell with His protection.
all praises to my God, the Lord of the eternity.
peace.
So whats the hell for?