Why does the Quran and Bible describe the Sun as going around the Earth?
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(In answer to the subject of thread)
Due to either misinterpretations of the text or fabricated text fragments.
It is common to ignore science just to justify religious ideals, even if it is empirically provable and easy to observe it is so.
Many people argued for centuries that the Earth was flat as well despite footage from space that can prove it wrong.
Salaam
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You have so many satellites with cameras in orbit around the solar system which observe and so many scientific studies done over the past hundred years so it is only backwards thinking to claim that the sun orbits the Earth.
A combination of mathematical formulas and observation can very surely prove that the Earth is a planet in orbit around the star.
You also have telescopic observations of outer space which testify to an identical layout.
As far as I am concerned Quran says the Earth is a sphere, but it says the moon and the sun have their respective orbits but not that they factually orbit the Earth.
If it poetically speaks of sunrise or sunset somewhere it does not mean from a scientific regard. Of course the sun must set somewhere in the horizon.
Dhul-karnain seems to have chased the sunset location but that can also have been speaking of the heading of his expedition since in the past you relied on the sun for navigation since you did not have a compass. People were not stupid but they knew the sun always rose and set in the same direction.
More than often the interpretation is utterly inaccurate so you should not take any interpretation of it as absolutely ultimate. That is worth taking into consideration.
Salaam
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You have so many satellites with cameras in orbit around the solar system which observe and so many scientific studies done over the past hundred years so it is only backwards thinking to claim that the sun orbits the Earth.
A combination of mathematical formulas and observation can very surely prove that the Earth is a planet in orbit around the star.
You also have telescopic observations of outer space which testify to an identical layout.
As far as I am concerned Quran says the Earth is a sphere, but it says the moon and the sun have their respective orbits but not that they factually orbit the Earth.
If it poetically speaks of sunrise or sunset somewhere it does not mean from a scientific regard. Of course the sun must set somewhere in the horizon.
Dhul-karnain seems to have chased the sunset location but that can also have been speaking of the heading of his expedition since in the past you relied on the sun for navigation since you did not have a compass. People were not stupid but they knew the sun always rose and set in the same direction.
More than often the interpretation is utterly inaccurate so you should not take any interpretation of it as absolutely ultimate. That is worth taking into consideration.
Salaam
Lol, I was gonna say the same. Thanks for saying it.
Ted, you are missing a point. There is something you are not catching in the verses below
Quran-2133 ?It is He who created The Night and Day, And the Sun and Moon; each of them Swim (float) along in its own course.?
Qur'an 911-2 "By the sun and his brightness, And the moon when she followeth him"
Qur'an 3637-40 "A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness and the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise. And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit."
Not a single one of them mentions 'EARTH'. Hence they are not saying sun revolves around it.
911-2 talks about night after day. At dusk, we can sometimes see the moon clearly. Hence the line "moon follows the sun".
2133 and 3637-40 are fully clear. Without orbits the two would have collided long time ago.
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The talk about orbits and that they never catch up just means (among perhaps other things as well) that the objects you see in the sky, including Earth, are all locked into a precise system. Things don't fly around by random in space! The repetitious nature of heavenly bodies and seasons etc is a fixed thing in nature that we are all aware of by simple observation. It's a system, a design, to appreciate.
If you make Earth your point of reference, everything in the universe rotates around Earth. It's just a matter of perspective and at what level you look at things. If you'd zoom to only include e.g. the solar system though, it become apparent that the planets have orbits centering around the sun.
The Quran is remarking on how things appear from Earth, and we are to realize the grandness of the system and appreciate it.
Peace
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You have so many satellites with cameras in orbit around the solar system which observe and so many scientific studies done over the past hundred years so it is only backwards thinking to claim that the sun orbits the Earth.
When have you ever seen an actual photo of the earth taken by a satellite? Because all I have seen are digitally rendered images. In the following video you can see Matt Boylan talk about how he used to create fake photos of planets and moons and stuff. https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDg8kh1dXTc
When I first heard about the flat earth society, I too immediately dismissed it as a joke. But when I actually started listening to them, I saw that they might not be as crazy as they seem. Sound familiar? I'm sure a lot of you guys at Free Minds here got the same treatment from fellow muslims when you started thinking differently from the mainstream society.
Anyways, I can't explain everything cause I'm not a scientist but I know that there are some very solid arguments regarding the whole NASA hoax.
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How does a spaceship propel itself forward or change direction in vaccuum space? No matter how powerful the thrust of its engines, it will do no good if there is nothing to push against. It can take off by pushing against the earth, and it can push against the air pressure until it leaves the atmosphere, but then what? It might be able to keep going with the same velocity as when it left the earth's atmosphere, because there is no more air resistance to slow it down, but then it will keep going straight ahead at the same speed until it crashes into something. It cannot change direction, because again there is nothing to push against, so how does it manage to turn around and land on the moon?
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None of the 9 astronauts from the 3 apollo missions had the guts to swear on the bible that they really landed on the moon. I don't have the link of this video but it is there on youtube.
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The international space station does not exist. NASA astronaut Chris Cassidy accidentally lets slip that they are talking from the USA during an interview that is supposedly live from the international space station. He is then immediately tensed up when he starts getting shit from people off-camera, and the other 2 astronauts nervously try to continue the interview as if nothing happened.
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp9Y8I6v_Ds -
Zero gravity is easily simulated in an aeroplane which is probably where most of the footage from the international space station is filmed. https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ieR8hIXUIg
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Satellite images such as Google earth can be taken from a high altitude plane or rocket from within the earth's atmosphere. All of the pictures from outer space could easily be faked, and no one would be the wiser.
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Satellite services like dish TV or satellite phones can be provided using signals from communications towers. The receiving device has a stronger antenna than ordinary cellphones so they have better coverage which allows them to connect to the nearest tower. Even if you go to a very remote place on earth, you would still be closer to a communications tower than to a satellite.
The Quran always speaks of the heavens and the earth as being separate from one another. And it also mentions that the lower heaven is decorated with stars/planets. So this would imply that the earth is separate from the heaven/sky which is adorned with the stars/planets.
375 The Lord of the heavens and the earth, and what lies between them, and the Lord of the sunrises.
376 We have adorned the lower heaven with the decoration of planetsSo before dismissing an idea as too stupid to have any value, maybe you should actually listen to the whole story, right?
If you want to see more videos about the flat earth theory you can check out this channel on youtube. https//www.youtube.com/user/ericdubay77/videos
Edit here a more recent interview with Matt Boylan
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQt9vq3sdtQ -
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Salaam,
It is not like I dismiss things outright, but it sounds too absurd to be true.
Even if some of the space ambitions are part of a political game you have lots of independent and private activity regarding space research as well.
And theoretically you would be able to launch a projectile from the Earth and it would be forced by the gravity of another planet to change heading because it is affected by its gravity. It depends on the speed and mass of the projectile but the vessels we have are relatively slow in comparison. And if within the gravity of a planet then its engines are effective.
You also forget that the star of this solar system has its own huge gravity field which causes all the planets to stay in orbit around it. A powerful enough engine, not those we have now, but such as in science-fiction and scientific theories today, could deliver thrust even if the gravity is low. Engines we have are highly dependent on gravity because they are reaction-engines.
Even if space is a huge vacuum as long as you have any form of contact with gravity you have propulsion potential.
And concerning satellite technology it looks like people do not understand it. Even Iran has sent its own satellite into the atmosphere. You can place a satellite dish in some remote area and it will still work. It does not receive a signal from the Earth and if there is spacial disturbance then the signal quality may be adversely affected.
And what about space observatories? What are they seeing? An illusion?
How about all studies about our neighboring planets Venus, Mars? Are they revolving around the Earth just like the Sun?
Despite the size of the sun it is what revolves around the Earth and not the Earth around the Sun?
It sounds amazing if all that we have experienced concerning space was just a hoax. All private research, private companies spending billions, just an illusion created by man.
But despite this the Earth is not flat but round because that can easily be empirically tested.
Salaam
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Salamun Alaikum.
If I choose to believe there is no Taj Mahal ? no-body can convince me there is one. I can say all the pictures and videos are all hoax. Even if they take me in front of it I can look and say ? what is the proof you are not faking this?
It is almost as crazy as believing that a language is not what everybody who speak the language believe it to be. The letters of the language have hidden cryptic meaning that gives words new meanings which nobody ever heard of.
Thus there is no point of arguing with those who want to put their head in the sand and what to believe whatever they want to believe.
The truth is from our Master. So, let us not be the doubters.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salaam,
It is not like I dismiss things outright, but it sounds too absurd to be true.
Even if some of the space ambitions are part of a political game you have lots of independent and private activity regarding space research as well.
And theoretically you would be able to launch a projectile from the Earth and it would be forced by the gravity of another planet to change heading because it is affected by its gravity. It depends on the speed and mass of the projectile but the vessels we have are relatively slow in comparison. And if within the gravity of a planet then its engines are effective.
You also forget that the star of this solar system has its own huge gravity field which causes all the planets to stay in orbit around it. A powerful enough engine, not those we have now, but such as in science-fiction and scientific theories today, could deliver thrust even if the gravity is low. Engines we have are highly dependent on gravity because they are reaction-engines.
Even if space is a huge vacuum as long as you have any form of contact with gravity you have propulsion potential.
And concerning satellite technology it looks like people do not understand it. Even Iran has sent its own satellite into the atmosphere. You can place a satellite dish in some remote area and it will still work. It does not receive a signal from the Earth and if there is spacial disturbance then the signal quality may be adversely affected.
And what about space observatories? What are they seeing? An illusion?
How about all studies about our neighboring planets Venus, Mars? Are they revolving around the Earth just like the Sun?
Despite the size of the sun it is what revolves around the Earth and not the Earth around the Sun?
It sounds amazing if all that we have experienced concerning space was just a hoax. All private research, private companies spending billions, just an illusion created by man.
But despite this the Earth is not flat but round because that can easily be empirically tested.
Salaam
Sounds too absurd because it goes against what we've been taught right?
So you're saying thrust would work just because there's gravity? What would be the thrust against? Still vaccuum space right? So what would give it the push it needs to propel forward?
If you stand before a wall and push with your hand you will move backward because the wall has a great resistance. If you are swimming you have to push harder because liquids don't have the same amount of resistance. If you are flying you need an even greater push because air resistance is even weaker. And when you are in space there is NO resistance, so what exactly would a thrust do?
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With the engines that we have now there is no thrust in space. That is right. We would need an engine that reverses the gravity somehow or can funnel gravity or is simply strong enough to be able to steer the craft with the little gravity that is available. But also a projectile would continue to travel infinitely once given thrust until it is caught in the gravity field of something else.
But due to the massive gravity field of the bigger planets and the sun there is always gravity within the solar system, so that is no big deal if you can make a vessel able to utilize that.
Unfortunately I cannot really this easily accept a doctrine that does against all scientific advancements and then not only astronomy.
And regardless, the Earth is not flat.
Salaam
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Arman,
I just tell you to ponder upon the single letters in 38 and 68 and reflect on why they are followed by a conjunction. Which literary work would begin a chapter with a conjunction?
If you are wise you realize that the sole letters are supposed to say something.
I do not waste more energy on that since you cannot perceive anyway.
Salaam
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When I first heard about the flat earth society, I too immediately dismissed it as a joke. But when I actually started listening to them, I saw that they might not be as crazy as they seem.
So, you realize too, that there's something wrong?
Praise be to Allah. Praise be to Allah. )
I think I am not crazy, what happens is that I prefer to free my mind from the fake lessons which are the result of the brainwashing when I was still at schools. If that's not the truth, then I don't have objection to let go off what I've learned.
Sound familiar? I'm sure a lot of you guys at Free Minds here got the same treatment from fellow muslims when you started thinking differently from the mainstream society.
Indeed.
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People laugh, but the 'Flat Earthers' know something.
Do they know what's on the other side...?
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Other side of what? You mean below of the earth or outside the flat-earth?
Looked it up...haven't found mention of the underside, at least so far, but I did read this
http//wiki.tfes.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions
The earth is surrounded on all sides by an ice wall that holds the oceans back. This ice wall is what explorers have named Antarctica. Beyond the ice wall is a topic of great interest to the Flat Earth Society. To our knowledge, no one has been very far past the ice wall and returned to tell of their journey. What we do know is that it encircles the earth and serves to hold in our oceans and helps protect us from whatever lies beyond.
So, it's Game of Thrones pretty much.
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So there are immense amounts of "fake" imagery depicting a spherical Earth, but no imagery showing the edge of the flat Earth? Where's the edge? We do have airplanes that fly in the sky, yet no photos of the edge. Odd indeed! How to explain that?
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The curvature of the Earth becomes obvious when observing sea vessels moving far away from you on the open sea... they clearly "cross" the horizon either appearing or disappearing from top to bottom. Further more, the curvature becomes even more visible when flying an air craft. These are empirical observations, and not something we are taught through brainwashing. How to explain this?
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I guess the Flat Earth people consider mathematics as something fake and false, just brainwash. They must think that math ACTUALLY doesn't work, and it just seems to work. I mean, already people in ancient times have calculated things like the length of the equator... oops, sorry, the equator doesn't exist.
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Regarding propulsion in space. It is not true that the jet stream pushes on something in order for the space craft to move ahead. This thinking is a result of faulty imagination/thought experiment. Just try it with a water hose. Does it only want to move when it is close to the ground or an object? TRY it out. Don't just think it out. Doesn't the laws of physics say that for each force there is an equal and opposite force? Mass and velocity of jet gasses on one side of the equation and mass and velocity of the space craft on the other side. Also, how the heck would a simple propeller plane function if the propeller blades didn't push against something. And NO! The propeller does NOT create a solid column of air molecules behind it, which in turn would need to push against some tower or something fixed to the ground. And by what mechanism would air molecules be grabbed from the vicinity and stacked between the propeller blade and the molecule column??? So how does propeller planes work, in air? Must be the same principle as in vacuum according to this theory. Even if there is no vacuum in the air, the air still contains empty space between the molecules. Air is not a liquid or solid!
Please!
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Salaam brother Zulf,
The reaction-based (rea) engine works utilizing gravity just like any other engine humans have been able to invent for flights. It will be less efficient if gravity is reduced but not completely useless unless under no gravity field at all which is not true since there is gravity in the whole solar system, even if far from a planet our current technology will make the engine very ineffective and waste fuel, so scientists make sure the vessel has its predestined heading and takes a "free ride" by using gravity from a planet or other body.
I do not argue against you or anything, just filling in for those who need.
The point is that our current engines are effectively usable only until a certain distance from the departure point and after that the craft floats until it reaches another strong gravity field to place itself in orbit.
If you push matter behind you somewhere this phenomenon will give you propulsion and a rocket-engine delivers thrust by ignition of rocket fuel with exhausts behind the craft causing it to move forwards away from the gravity source. This crude but useful technology is what we have right now even if scientists are working on something they call an 'ion engine'. You can read about it in science magazines. It will multiple the speed several times compared to the engine type we use today.
And theoreticians are also working on ways to make hovercrafts based on anti-gravity technology but that is mostly science-fiction today. If they manage to tame the laws of nature you will see that gravity is for real. The only problem is that they would use so much energy you need the energy from a whole nuclear power plant to feed it.
And there are also experiments not too far away to make artificial gravity. In fact they already know how but only they need to find some viable way to project this field without wasting too much energy.
And Zulf gave a good example with the disappearing ships and airplanes in the horizon which testify that the Earth is a sphere. And not to mention satellite communication which is dependent on the tilting of the Earth. You cannot establish satellite communication with every satellite on Earth due to the above phenomenon of a spherical planet.
Somehow this reminds about religious dogma of the past which for centuries fought against science in the argument flat vs spherical Earth, and often religious nutjobs were able to convince a grand majority of people and thus halt scientific progress and take the community backwards, usually due to interpretation of some religious text which take precedence over rationality and logic and even empirical experiments.
Salaam
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Do they know what's on the other side...?
Tails ;D
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- So there are immense amounts of "fake" imagery depicting a spherical Earth, but no imagery showing the edge of the flat Earth? Where's the edge? We do have airplanes that fly in the sky, yet no photos of the edge. Odd indeed! How to explain that?
I think there are photos which show the giant ice wall, but I still don't find photo which shows the outside of the ice wall.
Maybe because there's a sky dome/ceiling/canopy like what is described in the Qur'an, and it seems that the Bible also describes the sky as such.
Perhaps the sky dome looks similar like this.
http//image.slidesharecdn.com/13862451-flat-earth-koran-05-of-13-the-solid-sky-dome-110115112231-phpapp01/95/13862451-flatearthkoran05of13thesolidskydome-3-728.jpg?cb=1295112928
I think it's possible that human cannot pass that "barrier."
- The curvature of the Earth becomes obvious when observing sea vessels moving far away from you on the open sea... they clearly "cross" the horizon either appearing or disappearing from top to bottom.
I hope someday I can answer this. There's so much to learn for me now. I suppose for me it's like learning about nature from the beginning again, so I don't think that I could give satisfying answer for each of your questions.
But, it would be nice if you brother, try to open your mind and start to study yourself about this issue, maybe you could learn about this faster than me.
Further more, the curvature becomes even more visible when flying an air craft. These are empirical observations, and not something we are taught through brainwashing. How to explain this?
I don't think we can see earth curvature from aircraft. Are you sure that you can see the curvature from the aircraft?
I have not checked this myself. The time when I got in a plane, I was still not aware of this issue, so I did not really pay attention to the sight below the aircraft.
But I already discussed this with my friend whose father is a pilot.
- I guess the Flat Earth people consider mathematics as something fake and false, just brainwash. They must think that math ACTUALLY doesn't work, and it just seems to work. I mean, already people in ancient times have calculated things like the length of the equator... oops, sorry, the equator doesn't exist.
The simple math can helps to understand that the earth is not a globe.
However, I suppose it seems useless and tiring to talk about this with those who do not want to free their minds and already resist in the beginning and/or ridicule us.
Please!
Yes, please start to study this issue, brother. God willing, it'll be useful.
Peace.