Out of Curiosity.......
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Salaam uq,
Salm es,
Thank you for raising an interesting subject!
In 6121 we read "Do not eat from that upon which the name of God has not been mentioned; verily, it is a blasphemy..."
In 53 we read "Prohibited for you is carrion, blood, the meat of swine, and that which has been sacrificed in other than God..."
In 6145 we read "Say 'I find not in that which has been revealed to me to be prohibited for an eater to eat except that be carrion, or flowing blood, or the meat of swine (for it is defiled), or a blasphemy sacrificed in other than God'..."
Verses 53 and 6145 are essentially saying the same thing, however, verse 6121 is saying something different.
Verse 6121 is saying that we cannot eat the meat of an animal that was sacrificed without the name of God being mentioned at the time of its sacrifice.
Whereas verses 53 and 6145 are saying that we cannot eat the meat of an animal that was sacrificed with the name of someone (or something) other than God being mentioned at the time of its sacrifice.
Therefore, as I understand it, there are 2 conditions that are pertinent to the legality of meat according to the Quran
- The name of God must be mentioned at the time of the animal's sacrifice.
- No other name can be mentioned at the time of the animal's sacrifice.
This has 2 implications for Quran-aloners, particularly those of us who are living in the West, namely
- Animals that are mass-reared in factories or farms and that are mechanically sacrificed with no dedication to the name of God preceding their sacrifice are, in my view, prohibited for us to eat. This applies to your average beef burger at McDonalds, your chicken wings at KFC, and to your sirloin steak at Frankie & Bennie's!
- Animals that are sacrificed by Sunni Muslims are sacrificed with a dedication being offered to the name of God ALONE. I have not previously encountered a 'dedication formula' used by Sunni Muslims that uses a name of other than God. Sunnis usually say "Bismillah. Allahu akbar." Therefore, the meat commonly called "halal meat" by Sunnis Muslims is permissible for us to eat. I'm not sure what Jews say before a slaughter, but they must only use the name of God ALONE in order for their meat to be permissible for us to eat. Perhaps someone in the forum can shed light on the exact wording of the Jewish dedication.
It is interesting to note that the Quran does not specify a technique for the slaughter; it doesn't specify that the slaughter has to be by knife, so electrocution is just as permissible. However, the welfare of the animal is a very important consideration in my view. There are opinions out there that consider slaughter by knife at the trachea is the most humane technique of slaughtering an animal because it causes a huge and sudden drop in blood pressure which is likely to send the animal into a comatose state and thus they do not feel the full force of the pain. There are other opinions out there that argue that slaughtering by knife is actually more painful to the animal than electrocution. I am not an expert in physiology so I can't really say which method is more humane.
We must also remember that the Quran specifically allows the use of falcons and dogs to hunt prey (54). I would imagine that falcons and dogs kill their prey before a dedicated sacrifice to the name of God takes place. However, we are still instructed to mention the name of God on the prey that they catch.
We must also remember that God, the Most Gracious, has made an exception to the above-mentioned two rules only where we experience extreme circumstances. The exact circumstances are not elaborated in the Quran except that God says "except that to which you are compelled by necessity." This exception also applies to eating pork in extreme circumstances.
Irrespective of exceptional circumstances and irrespective of the technique of slaughter, the topic at hand is the legality of meat. And it is only with the fulfilment of the above-mentioned two conditions that meat is rendered permissible for us to eat, in my opinion.
I pray that God increases me in guidance, and that He forgives me if I have erred.
Thank you for your detailed and methodical reply.
In regards to 6121, you have stated that the name of Allah must be mentioned at the time of the slaughter. Could you please clarify how you reached this conclusion as I cannot see this as a clear and definitive instruction, and therefore, for me, it remains a supposition. As does the assertion that the name of Allah must be recited directly prior to consumption of the meal. I cannot see a clear order in regards to the time of recitation and would appreciate yours and everyone else's rationale in reaching their different conclusions.
Thank you for your time and efforts!
Sajda. peace
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Salam uq
Indeed it is an interesting topic specially for us living in the western world.
Verse 6121 is saying that we cannot eat the meat of an animal that was sacrificed without the name of God being mentioned at the time of its sacrifice.
Whereas verses 53 and 6145 are saying that we cannot eat the meat of an animal that was sacrificed with the name of someone (or something) other than God being mentioned at the time of its sacrifice.
I could not make the red part in the verses. May be you can help.
This applies to your average beef burger at McDonalds, your chicken wings at KFC, and to your sirloin steak at Frankie & Bennie's!
So what is your understanding of verse 55?
This day good foods have been made lawful, and the food of those who were given the Scripture is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. And chaste women from among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking lovers. And whoever denies the faith - his work has become worthless, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.
May Allah guide us in understanding His Book.
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Salamun Alaik N00B.
When you reject caramel popcorn with rum is the concern the popcorn will intoxicate you and hinder you from remembrance of Allah; or you thought that the addition of alcohol makes the food "haram"? If you happen to have "accidentally" tried the popcorn, did it intoxicate you to the extent your normal functioning of mind was compromised?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanWell, I ate this popcorn by accident long time ago, and it does not taste like a typical non-rum caramal. I thought it was just a different 'flavor' of caramal and never taste any form of alcohol, so the taste of rum was unknown to me. I did not feel any intoxication because the packet was very small. The rum was slightly strong according to someone who told me about the containings. At that time, I believed eating rum is haram. For my today's reflection, I would not eat that popcorn because of the strong rum that might lead to intoxication.
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as for mentioning God's name on food (not just meat), each individual has to do with themselves. Wfhat benefits do you gain when someone else does it for you upon slaughtering the animal and how can you cerify that they actually did? See 1736 and all the verses that talk about remembrance of God... it becomes clear that the dhabiha halal method is not in accordance to the Quran and following it is polytheism.
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Well, I ate this popcorn by accident long time ago, and it does not taste like a typical non-rum caramal. I thought it was just a different 'flavor' of caramal and never taste any form of alcohol, so the taste of rum was unknown to me. I did not feel any intoxication because the packet was very small. The rum was slightly strong according to someone who told me about the containings. At that time, I believed eating rum is haram. For my today's reflection, I would not eat that popcorn because of the strong rum that might lead to intoxication.
Salaam N00B.
Thanks for clarifying. If you are sincerely avoiding "caramel popcorn with rum" suspecting that it could lead to intoxication ? I respect and praise your choice. But, for me I am convinced that having reasonable amount of popcorn, chocolate or some cooked food with wine / rum used as cooking ingredient generally do not intoxicate a person ? at least not to the extent where he would not know what he is saying (443).
For me not claiming something ?haram? which Allah has made halal ? is of higher priority than being hyper-sensitive about food with marginal alcohol content in it. I am not ready to take a blame for making the religion more difficult than Allah wanted it to be.
BUT, of course, I refrain from and strongly preach against any kind of alcoholic beverages / drugs / smoking ingredients that can be reasonably expected to interfere my natural thinking process ? and there-by hinder me from salaat.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
as for mentioning God's name on food (not just meat), each individual has to do with themselves. Wfhat benefits do you gain when someone else does it for you upon slaughtering the animal and how can you cerify that they actually did? See 1736 and all the verses that talk about remembrance of God... it becomes clear that the dhabiha halal method is not in accordance to the Quran and following it is polytheism.
Salam progressive1993.
May I suggest to rephrase the wording highlighted with red with the following
"... and insisting this method to be a mandatory requirement for any meat to be halal - is innovation in the name of Allah and a grave sin."
If you do not agree, please help me understand what is your definition of "polytheism" and where you see in Qur'an that following the dhabiha halal method qualifies for that term.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Well, I ate this popcorn by accident long time ago, and it does not taste like a typical non-rum caramal. I thought it was just a different 'flavor' of caramal and never taste any form of alcohol, so the taste of rum was unknown to me. I did not feel any intoxication because the packet was very small. The rum was slightly strong according to someone who told me about the containings. At that time, I believed eating rum is haram. For my today's reflection, I would not eat that popcorn because of the strong rum that might lead to intoxication.
Popcorn. They're dry right? Could there even be alcohol in this? Ethanol is a liquid at room temperature. I think that there might have been the flavour of rum in the popcorns, but alcohol itself (ethanol) really tastes nothing in the sense of flavour. It's actually disgusting, like a disinfectant. Those who drink alcoholic beverages choose their favorites due to the flavoring, not the alcohol.
But perhaps I'm missing something about these popcorns, as I have no experience of them.Peace
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Wfhat benefits do you gain when someone else does it for you upon slaughtering the animal and how can you cerify that they actually did?
This is how I think as well.
How does the meat change when someone utters some words at the time of slaughter, or even cooking or consumption??? I find it a bit too materialistic and superstitious to think that the meat itself is affected. And even if the meat is not affected as such, I also don't believe it will suddenly get some righteous, pious aura of goodness around it just because someone uttered some religious words when slaughtering the animal.I do however, believe that one's own intentions are extremely important. This is actually where I believe the focus must be.
Peace
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Salaam Zulf,
Dhekr has no such connotation as mention. It is just ridiculous. Those passages which say mention Allah's name use the word dhekr and it means "to honor/regard". Obviously it means to be thankful for the meal.
The thanksgiving is traditionally done by Christians through giving a brief thanks for the food before they eat. Bismillah is uttered traditionally by those who call themselves Muslim which means you do something in the consciousness of Allah, which is the foundation of the faith.
If it was to imply a sort of expression then the Arabic would use a form of qul (say).
Salaam
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Salm Sajda, Salm all,
You are correct in pointing out that I make a supposition in my understanding of 6121, it being the words enclosed in "Do not eat from that upon which the name of God has not been mentioned ; verily, it is a blasphemy...".
However, this supposition cannot be proven confidently. I am not certain about it. If my supposition is invalid?and I thank you for pointing it out?then there exists only ONE condition for the legality of meat according to the Quran, i.e., that no name other than God's is allowed to be mentioned at the time of sacrifice and that, consequently, the mentioning of God's name during the time of sacrifice is not a command.
Therefore, your McDonald's beef burgers, your KFC chicken wings, and your F&B's sirloin steak are all permissible to eat IF my supposition is invalid.
This raises the question "If 6121 is not alluding to mentioning the name of God during the act of sacrifice, then to what does it allude?"
It alludes to mentioning the name of God at the time of commencing your meal of any type of food, not just meat. In other words, you cannot eat any type of food without mentioning the name of God before eating it.
I'm in 2 minds about 6121, but currently, I support the view that it alludes to sacrifice, not just eating.
May God increase me in knowledge!
Usamah
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Salam progressive1993.
May I suggest to rephrase the wording highlighted with red with the following
"... and insisting this method to be a mandatory requirement for any meat to be halal - is innovation in the name of Allah and a grave sin."
If you do not agree, please help me understand what is your definition of "polytheism" and where you see in Qur'an that following the dhabiha halal method qualifies for that term.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman-
Lets get rid of the Arabism - it's called lawful ("halal".
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Do you know some kind of special "dhabiha" apple slaughterer? It's NOT only for meat. Mentioning the name of God on our food is for all of our food.
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Read the verses I mentioned in an earlier post. Upholding a law other than God's is polytheism ("shirk". And those who make up lies about God will get punished.
Peace )
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However, this supposition cannot be proven confidently. I am not certain about it. If my supposition is invalid?and I thank you for pointing it out?then there exists only ONE condition for the legality of meat according to the Quran, i.e., that no name other than God's is allowed to be mentioned at the time of sacrifice and that, consequently, the mentioning of God's name during the time of sacrifice is not a command.
Salam Usamah
Please see text in blue above. Why you are saying "legality of meat" and "at the time of sacrifice"? It is again a supposition. The text does not mention these words.
2173 He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced , neither desiring nor transgressing , there is no sin upon him. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
The green part in the verse says "what is dedicated to other than Allah" without mentioning "meat".
This raises the question "If 6121 is not alluding to mentioning the name of God during the act of sacrifice, then to what does it allude?"
It alludes to mentioning the name of God at the time of commencing your meal of any type of food, not just meat. In other words, you cannot eat any type of food without mentioning the name of God before eating it.You got it. This is what the verses say.
I'm in 2 minds about 6121, but currently, I support the view that it alludes to sacrifice, not just eating.
Well you can allude to anything but remember we should approach Qur'an without any pre-conceived concepts to get the guidance. The verses says "what is dedicated to other than Allah". Now this "what" could be anything dedicated to other than Allah.
Peace
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Hello Sajda, Hello all,
is mentioned in 12 verses, 3 of which are about mentioning the name of God in masjids, 8 are about mentioning the name of God while killing animals for food, and 1 is about mentioning the name of God as exalting or tasbih.
1- mentioning the name of God in masjids
2- mentioning the name of God when killing animals (slaughtering with a knife is not explicitly used)
3- mentioning the name of God as exaltingOther verses which use don't necessary mean uttering the name of God, but mean remembering God ...
My point is that there is a clear distinction between and , mentioning God means remembering God, whether while praying or in haj or in generally in normal life, but mentioning the name of God means uttering God's name in masjids, as exalting or when killing animals for food.
Salam
Ahmed -
It is interesting that no one considers that it may mean honor/regard.
Compare that to the verse telling to dhekr Allah as you dhekr your fathers. What is the old 'Commandment'? Is it not "Honor your parents"?
Remember sounds so awfully misfit and forced into context. Just as mention the name of God like some kind of lipservice in Paganism. Honor has a more noble meaning.
Salaam
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The reason is that people assum that mentioning the name of God includes and means honoring, not just uttering some words ..
Mentioning God like mentioning your fathers is something other than mentioning God's name, people mention their fathers of proud, and so God told us to mention Him and talk about his graces, so this is different, this is talking about God and his graces, not just mentioning his name.
I think the difference between paganism and God alone worship is in the 'Worshipped' not in the 'how-to' or the rituals. You have uttering words in the Quran, you have prostration, you have using water ritual, praying to a specific direction in specific time, killing people in the name of God (aggressors), etc .. All these things can be considered paganism only if it was done for serving other gods than God.
Please review the difference between mentioning God and mentioning the name of God I've explained above.
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Hmm... but mentioning GOD will not make any difference in case there is no action associated with it. The reason one goes to for, example, a House of GOD ought to be to enlighten oneself. Honoring GOD is more than so but that is to have GOD with you always in your mind, no matter if one mentions GOD as a name or not.
I can mention GOD a trillion times, but unless there is no substance to it then it would feel fairly redundant.
This is also some criticism that I felt Jesus/Isa/Jesu wanted to convey in his persecuted life.
Salaam
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Salam Man of Faith
Well, surly the Quran is full of verses which call for actions and good deeds, but mentioning the name of God in those specific cases is meant to be a ritual itself. God is telling us in 12 different verses to mention his name while killing animals for food, and in masjids, and generally as a glorification. Also don't forget that we are told to glorify God in certain times of the day, before sunrise and before sunset , and we can't mention the name of God or glorify Him without pulling ourselves away from whatever we are doing, and concentrate on the glorification. This is something, and mentioning God is something else, mentioning God or remembering Him is keeping ourselves aware that God is hearing us, watching us, helping us. It is not restricted to a certain situation or time, it is needed as much as we can.
"O you who believe, you shall constantly regard God. And glorify Him morning and evening"
,These two verses says it all. We should constantly remember God, but when it comes to glorification or mentioning His name, it is only done in certain times of the day.
Salam
Ahmed -
Peace Hizbullah,
Also please see this
http//www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/03/halal-slaughterhouse-staff-investigated-alleged-animal-cruelty-bowood-lamb-yorkshire
Thank you for sharing this video.
Animal cruelty is not just limited to the "halal" slaughterhouses but is rampant in regular slaughterhouses also. Please see the following
http//www.peta.org/videos/meet-your-meat/
That is why I eat only organic meat which is obtained from animals raised humanely. Grass fed, pasture raised animals/birds that are not given antibiotics, hormones and GMO foods, are raised humanely. This is another reason why I avoid animals/birds given antibiotics, hormones and GMO foods.
May the infinite creator guide us to the truth.
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Salaam Ahmed,
Ok brother. I understand where you stand. I do not agree that there is any ritual to mention GOD's name since GOD has no need or want for worship in that traditional regard. If there is any 'dhekr' then it is for our own sake. GOD does not require it, hence it would be senseless to repeat GOD's name without reinforcement of the faith in any way such as the utterance of a prayer for your sake to be improved so that you honor GOD. GOD lacks the prerequisites such as an ego to boost that The Rabb has to be constantly glorified by an individual human. It tends to feel adopted from Paganism.
And if you know how you can honor your father then you probably know how you can honor GOD. This is why Quran is mentioning honor GOD like how you honor your own father, because you would not like to dishonor your father by causing rumors of your bad behavior somewhere, and unlike your father you cannot hide anything from GOD. When Quran speaks of honoring GOD it implies on behavior and good deeds, and this is how a righteous father would feel honored by you if you showed the right spirit. The same father would feel dishonor if he heard you had started a quarrel, stolen something, lied, used bad language at someone, committed adultery or any other unrighteous works. Just the same would GOD feel dishonored by it, and GOD knows perfectly well all that you had done. So if you will to honor GOD like your father then you have to show the right deeds.
Mentioning GOD for that sake. It is as natural as that you would mention the father you like to honor. I mentioned GOD many times in this post up until now and yet it was not in any ritualistic behavior. If you keep GOD in your mind and seek to honor GOD as your father then obviously you will often mention the name of GOD.
If you really follow the 'Commandments' (the decree revealed to Moses) then you already honor your father and you probably think and talk about your father often. So you should do about GOD and so more than him.
This is my view on it.
Salaam