Whether God could create a God?
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Peace Lena,
Please feel free to discard anything I say that doesn't make any sense or doesn't harmonize with your inner compass/conscience (3030), reasoning (611, 644 etc.), or real world evidence (4153, 1736).
But God is perfect. Can we ever reach an absolute state of perfection and have Gods qualities?
Yes, we are part of the infinite Creator and eventually when we reach the 8th density state of existence, the illusion of separateness will disappear and we all will merge back with the infinite Creator.
Density is the closest word in English that I can think of to express the state of existence. You can substitute it with "level" if "density" doesn't make sense.
The Creator is infinite (2115). The logical implication is that everything is part of the infinite Creator. If anything is not part of the Creator then the Creator would be finite because the Creator would end somewhere and that thing will begin somewhere. Since the Creator is infinite then everything is part of the infinite Creator.
2115 And to God belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is the face of God. God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
All creation is physical manifestation of a tiny part of the infinite Intelligent Energy (the Infinite Creator). Energy and matter are inter convertible (E = m times c squared). Quantum physics proposes that all sub atomic particles are fundamentally formed from vibrations of strings of energy.
http//www.universetoday.com/114617/a-fun-way-of-understanding-emc2/
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCkGD76OEwA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
In our current 3rd density physical state of existence we are in an illusion of separateness from the infinite Creator. We will progressively go through higher density states of existence (the hereafter or heaven) until we reach the 8th density and merge back with the infinite Creator.
3rd density humans will eventually be transformed into 4th or higher density beings. Please reflect and meditate on the following verses
5660 We have predetermined death for you. Nothing can stop us
5661 From transforming your forms, and establishing you in what you do not know.This worldy life is nothing but an illusion/deception
5720 ............This worldly life is no more than an illusion/deceiving enjoyment.
Earth, air, water etc, are at 1st density state of existence; no consciousness, no free will.
Animals and plants are at 2nd density state of existence. They have consciousness but they don't have free will to choose between service to self (STS) or service to others (STO) path. Some animals such as cats and dogs are at a higher 2nd density state of existence, close to 3rd density.
Humans are at 3rd density state of existence. They have consciousness and free will to choose between STS or STO path.
Jinns (aliens, spirit guides, angels etc.) are at 4th or higher density states of existence. They have all the above plus their sub atomic particles are made of strings of energy vibrating at a different frequency than the lower densities so their "bodies" look different, with different physical properties. For example they can cloak themselves from the lower densities, have ability of telepathic communication, materialize as 3rd density being, exist as a collective, exist on planets that are uninhabitable to lower density entities etc. Their bodies become less and less dense and more and more light as the densities increase.
3rd density beings have 4 bodies - Physical body
- Emotional body
- Mental body
- Spiritual body
In 4th density, the physical body is shed and the other 3 remain. There is no physical suffering possible then, but only emotional, mental and spiritual suffering is possible.
In 5th density, the emotional body is also shed and only the other 2 remain.
In 6th density onwards, the mental body is also shed and only the spiritual body remains and they are "light beings".
In 7th density, preparation is made to merge back with the infinite Creator and they supervise lower density beings.
In 8th density, merging back with the infinite Creator occurs, termed as "return to your Lord" by al-quran.
228 How can you reject God when you were dead and He brought you to life? Then He makes you die, then He brings you to life, then to Him you return.
Some of these higher density entities have been given control by the infinite Creator over various matters and they are what al-quran refers to as "malaika"/controllers.
May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.
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well, jedi
salaam all,
well, there's something wrong about my purposed based on this question.
OK, I will make it clear.If you're believe God is almighty, Whether God could create a God?
I think an ordinary man (or say let's think with a child's mind) will consider the results of the 2 thoughts below
- If could, there's will be 2 God(s) would be control this universe.
- If couldn't, certainly God is NOT almighty.
Can we answer this question clearly?
salaam.. )
Yes and the results will still be one God..
As + =
You will not think of such question, if you don't view God as a (finite) object or a being..
Infinity plus Infinity is still Infinity...
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Not being created is a feature of God that should point out the original question of this thread is self-contradicting. If God would create a god, by definition it wouldn't be God because of being created.
Can one break something unbreakable?
Can one see something invisible?Both are examples that contain a similar contradiction in the question itself - similar to the question "can God create a god".
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The Creator is infinite (2115). The logical implication is that everything is part of the infinite Creator. If anything is not part of the Creator then the Creator would be finite because the Creator would end somewhere and that thing will begin somewhere. Since the Creator is infinite then everything is part of the infinite Creator.
2115 And to God belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is the face of God. God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
All creation is physical manifestation of a tiny part of the infinite Intelligent Energy (the Infinite Creator). Energy and matter are inter convertible (E = m times c squared). Quantum physics proposes that all sub atomic particles are fundamentally formed from vibrations of strings of energy.
Is God a physical entity? Can we perceive Him as infinite Intelligent Energy?
4211 Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you from yourselves, mates, and among the cattle, mates; He multiplies you thereby. There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
1124 Nor is there to Him any equivalent.
When you call Him infinite Intelligent Energy You are perceiving/equalizing Him with something which is not in accordance with above verses.
My humble understanding is that God is a consciousness that we can feel but we cannot perceive Him like anything. The moment we call Him something it is no more God as per above verses.
Peace
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Jafar put up a very good point about infinity.
No matter how you put it there is just one grand consciousness everything exists within.
Salaam
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Give any perception to God? What are you telling?
We ought to follow the perception as relayed by prophets/knowledgeable/insightful men and women, unless we have something better ourselves.
That is what be attentive to salateh means.
Salaam
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Peace Novice,
Is God a physical entity?
Strawman fallacy.
I never called It "a physical entity". Infinite Intelligent Energy is not a physical entity. All physical entities are a manifestation of a tiny part of the Intelligent Infinity, but the Intelligent Infinity as a whole is not a physical entity.
Can we perceive Him as infinite Intelligent Energy?
4211 Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you from yourselves, mates, and among the cattle, mates; He multiplies you thereby. There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
1124 Nor is there to Him any equivalent.
When you call Him infinite Intelligent Energy You are perceiving/equalizing Him with something which is not in accordance with above verses.
My humble understanding is that God is a consciousness that we can feel but we cannot perceive Him like anything. The moment we call Him something it is no more God as per above verses.
When you say "Him" you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.
When you say "consciousness" you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.
When you say "we can feel" you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.
When you say God you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.By your logic we cannot use any human word as an attribute of the Intelligent Infinity because it will be perceiving like something.
There is nothing else in existence that can be equalized with the combination of the 3 words "Infinite Intelligent Energy".
I didn't say "intelligent" alone; that would be equalizing with something.
I didn't say "energy" alone; that would be equalizing with something.
I didn't say "creator" alone; that would be equalizing with something.I called It the "Infinite Intelligent Energy", or the "Infinite Creator", an attribute just like "al-rahman" or "al-raheem".
You can call it the "Infinite Consciousness" but not "consciousness".
May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.
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Peace truthseeker11
It is always a pleasure to talk to thinking minds. I appreciate your understanding.
Strawman fallacy.
I never called It "a physical entity". Infinite Intelligent Energy is not a physical entity. All physical entities are a manifestation of a tiny part of the Intelligent Infinity, but the Intelligent Infinity as a whole is not a physical entity.No strawman fallacy.
I asked a question "Is God a physical entity, not that you call Him a physical entity.When you say "Him" you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.
When you say "consciousness" you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.
When you say "we can feel" you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.
When you say God you perceive the Intelligent Infinity like something.By your logic we cannot use any human word as an attribute of the Intelligent Infinity because it will be perceiving like something.
When I said "Him" I used an English word for "HUA" which is used in Qur'an e.g. in 1121
Sahih International
Say, "He is Allah , OneWhen I say "consciousness" or "we can feel" I understand it as awareness and not an object.
When I said "God" I used an English word for as used in Qur'an
There is nothing else in existence that can be equalized with the combination of the 3 words "Infinite Intelligent Energy".
I respect your understanding.
I didn't say "intelligent" alone; that would be equalizing with something.
I didn't say "energy" alone; that would be equalizing with something.
I didn't say "creator" alone; that would be equalizing with something.I called It the "Infinite Intelligent Energy", or the "Infinite Creator", an attribute just like "al-rahman" or "al-raheem".
Al-Rahman and Al-Raheem are among the attributes of The Creator made known to us in Qur'an but "Infinite Intelligent Energy" is not.
I respect your understanding and gave my humble opinion and I pray to The Creator to help us understanding His book.
Peace.
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Hello RG Marshall,
welcome
Well .. Some questions can be put wrong, like how God is created, or how God created himself, or like your question, can God create a God. These questions are logically wrong because they assume that logic existed before God, and that of course is a wrong assumption. God created logic, He was there before logic and reason existed, so how could we discuss the existence of God based on something He made exist?
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Peace Novice,
It is always a pleasure to talk to thinking minds. I appreciate your understanding.
Likewise; it is always a pleasure having a discussion with you, and thank you for sharing your understandings.
No strawman fallacy.
I asked a question "Is God a physical entity, not that you call Him a physical entity.You quoted me and started your comment with that question and another question. The second question was relevant to my quote. Since both questions were asked together, the first question appeared a strawman fallacy. May I ask why you quoted me and then started questioning whether God is a physical entity when I didn't say that? It seemed to come out of nowhere!
When I said "Him" I used an English word for "HUA" which is used in Qur'an e.g. in 1121
Sahih International
Say, "He is Allah , OneHuwa in Arabic can mean both "he" and "it". The dictionary says it means "he" when referring to a male human. When you use "he" for the god, you ascribe a sex to the god; however, the god does not have a sex. By mistranslating "huwa" to "he", you turn a neutral message into a patriarchal and misogynistic message.
Because "huwa" can also mean "it", and since the god does not have a sex, when "huwa" is used for the god you should translate to "it" and not "he" to satisfy 4211 that you quoted against me.
When I say "consciousness" or "we can feel" I understand it as awareness and not an object.
My point is that "consciousness" can also be used for a human. You said "God is a consciousness". Human is also a "consciousness". So you are perceiving/equalizing the god to something. Instead of saying "God is a consciousness", you should have said "the god is an infinite consciousness" to satisfy 4211 that you quoted against me.
How can you be aware of the god? While in this temporary illusion of physical existence, you can only be aware of something that you can perceive with your senses. You cannot say "we can feel" for the god, because the god cannot be felt. "Feel" implies being aware of something or someone using your senses, but then you are perceiving/equalizing the god with something.
When I said "God" I used an English word for as used in Qur'an
You again mistranslated a quranic word. "Allah" as used in al-quran is a common noun and not a proper name. It is a combined form of "al ilah" which means "the god". When you mistranslate "allah" as "God" you are perceiving/equalizing "the god" to something (pagans also call their idol god). Instead of translating "allah" as "God", you should have properly translated it to "the god" to satisfy 4211 that you quoted against me.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16710.msg182966#msg182966
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16710.msg180723#msg180723
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605535.msg333628#msg333628
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600414.msg277101#msg277101Al-Rahman and Al-Raheem are among the attributes of The Creator made known to us in Qur'an but "Infinite Intelligent Energy" is not.
Can you kindly quote a verse that instructs us to remember, praise, or glorify the god using only quranic words? Perhaps I missed it. Will you stop someone from remembering, praising or glorifying the god in his/her own way just because that person was not using quranic words?
Infinite intelligent energy, infinite creator, intelligent infinity are some words that I use to remember, praise and glorify the god in my own way, along with quranic words such as al-raheem, al-khaliq, rabb etc.
I respect your understanding and gave my humble opinion and I pray to The Creator to help us understanding His book.
I respect your understanding as well and hope you take my humble opinions constructively rather than as criticism.
May the infinite creator guide us to the truth.
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Rabb is the "name" of GOD or at least personal address. No one calls upon GOD by Allah in Quran who is among righteous and knowledgeable people.
Allah is more of a collective, realm which people who are of affinity belong to. Hence the narration often speaks in plural as to say "We". It is not a mistake but that is because Allah is not a personal (singular) address for GOD.
Thus none of your examples are correct, the god or GOD, but I still use GOD because it may symbolize good and no one is good but GOD. I take it for what the word is meant to symbolize and not because people claim there are multiple gods. The one who chooses to hace the same affinity is good, thus GOD. It is not too bad instead of Allah, even if they are not synonymous. Perhaps AlRahman is better to mark GOD. The one who is, is, and why they are attributes and not proper nouns.
Allah, the word, is unspecifically saying the one who is that is. It has a long history, probably at least 4000 years. And lots of falsehood has emerged concerning it too. The AL prefix is attached to it thanks to the function of Arabic grammar, but it is supposed to be Elah without that prefix originally and has the same meaning except that Allah is stronger emphasis on "to be" Elah (to be which is). You can say it is double incentive.
But I understand that this is hard to accept for those who make GOD a clearly distinct separate image.
Salaam
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Peace Man of Faith,
Rabb is the "name" of GOD or at least personal address. No one calls upon GOD by Allah in Quran who is among righteous and knowledgeable people.
You are completely wrong
326 Say "O the god ............
5114 Jesus, son of Mary, said "O the god ............
1010 Their saying in it is "Be you glorified, O the god ...........
3946 Say "O the god ...........
Additionally, "rabb" is not a proper name; it is an attribute of the intelligent infinity, meaning "sustainer/caretaker/maintainer/developer".
My humble suggestion to you is to back up everything you say by evidence, instead of deliberately misleading others by deception and conjecture.
May the infinite creator guide us to the truth.
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Salaam truth,
No. It may look like I am wrong on a first glance, but there is a grammatical reason why the language is formed like that. I have studied the phenomenon of Allah for too long to not say something I am not knowledgeable about. If I was less confident I would not speak like I definitely know.
Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 26
Say "O Allah! Lord of Power (And Rule)
Source From traditional Quran translation
This interpretation is wrong.
The Allahem refers to the attribute reference of Malek that proceeds the word, by following "To Be Which It Be" + argument given, i.e. malek Al-Malek. This grammar form is very similar to how Jews/Children of Israel refer to the phenomenon Elohim and in this form it refers to Which Thereby Be as a collective possession.
Again I tell you, no righteous person in Quran would call upon GOD by Allah.
And Rabb is the personal address for GOD, regardless of being a name or not. I think I wrote "name" for that sake unless I missed it. Every righteous person says either Rabb or Ya Rabb in Quran when addressing GOD.
Allah can only be spoken of indirectly and passively since it is the consciousness of GOD like the realm one chooses to be part if they do, and it is counted in plural because those included are many, i.e. prophets, angels, righteous people etc.
Salaam
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Additionally, you have never wondered why Allah is written Allahem Rabbana which is a very peculiar literal style unless the Allahem is supposed to give inclusion of Rabbana into it?
Both 5114 and the one from the previous post where I addressed use the same particular grammar.
You have never reflected upon the grammatical style?
Allah/Elohim does indeed stem from the saying of GOD to Moses that "I am that am I" albeit in third person. This is how the realm of GOD works. We are expressions of that "superior consciousness" so to say, and what you say about what you now say "Infinite Intelligence" or what it is you say. There are two choices; to choose to be in the spirit of That Which Is AlRahman AlRaheem or to choose the illusive material world in which is Satan that gives incentive.
We were never part of the physical world until Satan duped us. We must abstain to save ourselves. Clear as glass that GOD formed the universe, but it is not as GOD intended with our indulgence and disobedience
And you are right GOD has no name because that is materialistic and immediately creating an image for the phenomenon GOD.
Salaam
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Salam truthseeker11
No offence it is all a learning process. We all give our opinions and I try to learn as much as I could from others.
Huwa in Arabic can mean both "he" and "it". The dictionary says it means "he" when referring to a male human. When you use "he" for the god, you ascribe a sex to the god; however, the god does not have a sex. By mistranslating "huwa" to "he", you turn a neutral message into a patriarchal and misogynistic message.
Yes we can use "It" instead of "He" but then "It" refers to non-intelligent or non-living things. So we have to use a word to refer to The God.
My point is that "consciousness" can also be used for a human. You said "God is a consciousness". Human is also a "consciousness". So you are perceiving/equalizing the god to something. Instead of saying "God is a consciousness", you should have said "the god is an infinite consciousness" to satisfy 4211 that you quoted against me.
Same is true for many attributes of The God like Raheem, Khaliq, Aalim
etc. etc. For me a person can reflect an attribute of The God but when we use "Al" before an attribute it refers only to The God.How can you be aware of the god? While in this temporary illusion of physical existence, you can only be aware of something that you can perceive with your senses. You cannot say "we can feel" for the god, because the god cannot be felt. "Feel" implies being aware of something or someone using your senses, but then you are perceiving/equalizing the god with something.
May I request your opinion about extra sensory perceptions?
You again mistranslated a quranic word. "Allah" as used in al-quran is a common noun and not a proper name. It is a combined form of "al ilah" which means "the god". When you mistranslate "allah" as "God" you are perceiving/equalizing "the god" to something (pagans also call their idol god). Instead of translating "allah" as "God", you should have properly translated it to "the god" to satisfy 4211 that you quoted against me.
Thanks for the links I will try to get benefit from them.
Can you kindly quote a verse that instructs us to remember, praise, or glorify the god using only quranic words? Perhaps I missed it. Will you stop someone from remembering, praising or glorifying the god in his/her own way just because that person was not using quranic words?
Of course we can remember, praise or glorify The God with any appropriate words but I prefer using revealed words as per 237
( (
Sahih InternationalThen Adam received from his Lord words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
You are free to use any words you thinks are appropriate.
I respect your understanding as well and hope you take my humble opinions constructively rather than as criticism.
Likewise I respect your understanding and I don't take it as criticism but a way to learn from other's opinions. No one is perfect and for me everyone is learning all the times.
May the infinite creator guide us to the truth.Peace
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This question misses a certain issue. Yes, God is capable of all things. So the question really is not "can" but "would God create a God?" To which the answer is unequivocally NO. Not because of lack of ability, but because God is sufficient and needs no others to complete Himself. There is no motive, desire, or need or Him to do this. It would be self-contradictory. And God is not self-contradictory. All other discussion of this issue is therefore moot or off-subject.
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It would be more than one rabb and disorder.
Salaam
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well, I'm Muslim Monotheistic & I'm new on this group.
don't be judge I'm an atheis based on my question above peace
(although I'm an ex-atheist, haha..)
now, let share about our knowledge about God first,
start from this Question.Salaam..
=Marshall=Salaam,
What does the expression "God is The Creator" means to you?
Salaam,
Bender -
if one see that as possible then yes and the results is still one God..
- = ?
It can be
+=
or
+= Impossible
Given to add any number / amount to a number we need to recognize the finite / border / limit of such number first before addition.
And we can't do that for an infinite number given we will count the amount of infinite number until infinity... (no end)..Note This kind of question exist due to the view of "human - like" God..