Is Jerusalem the Qibla?
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Etymological evidence seems to contradict this hicham9.
What "etymological evidence"!?
qibla direction Ful alkibila, Hin kibla, Ind kiblat, Per qeble borrowed from Ara
What is this!?
& what relevance does it hold/maintain!?
You have to understand you can't just change the meaning of an Arabic word when it has etymological roots in other languages.
What other languages!?
The Ajamean tongue!?
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What "etymological evidence"!?
What is this!?
& what relevance does it hold/maintain!?
What other languages!?
The Ajamean tongue!?
In this case the word is borrowed from the Aramaic qeble. The occurences in other languages have the same root in Aramaic. If you want to change the meaning of qibla in arabic you will have to make case for that being valid in Aramaic to begin with. So I suggest you find a proof qeble in Aramaic means what you are trying to project here.
Peace
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Actually, the Qurn doesn't depend/rely on Aramaic lexicons !
E.g., the Qurnic term mskyn () is defined/understood as 'poor' in MSA (and many colloquial dialects of Arabic). The term is further rendered a poor (man), in both Aramaic and C.Arabic lexicons! However, to understand the precise, intended meaning (of any Qurnic locution), one will need to dig back to the primary root meaning/s ~ and realize/figure out (on his/her own) that QA mskyn actually denotes the unsheltered = one without a mskn () ... Now, since G-D, our Master and Teacher, doesn't use synonyms , the Qurnic term for a 'poor (person)' is fqyr .
SLM
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I'm amazed somebody revived an old thread like this..
The "only and truest Qibla" IS IN EGYPT!
"We inspired Moses and his brother "Settle your people homes in Egypt, and make your homes (PLURAL) to be Qiblah?s".
(1087)That will certainly help Egyptian (currently failing) economy, millions of pilgrims will bring million of $$$ to the country.
Remember unless you're praying towards Egypt, your prayer will not be accepted by Allah.
And pilgrimage to other area other than Egypt, including but not limited to Jerusalem, Mecca, Karbala, Vatican, Ganges, Mount Fuji is HARAM and will not be accepted by Allah. Those who do so has certainly left Islam and become a KUFFAR!
?Problems cannot be solved with the same mind set that created them.?
-- Albert EinsteinPS Try ask a buddhist monk or Taoist priest (or any people other than Muslim or Jews) on which direction that they're praying to get your own personal revelation on this matter.
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Hicham may very well about Qiblateh to mean to "be face to face". Classical Arabic dictionaries have no problem with this interpretation. Congregation, tribe are among possible interpretations.
Qebl, the root, means "before", disregarding whether in front of someone or before in time. It is a contextual relevancy. makes it into an object reference. Qiblateh may as well refer to a "front figure" like role model in terms that the congregation/assembly all follow the same kind of guidance. Like you know, qebl means before and the renders it an object.
My interpretation of the "turn your "homes" into qiblat" is that the assembly should act as a model for the people, i.e the people should apply what was presented BEFORE them in their lives with the being reference to it as an object.
Salaam
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Admit/accept someone is also among possible meanings with that you let it come before you.
Salaam
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Hicham may very well about Qiblateh to mean to "be face to face". Classical Arabic dictionaries have no problem with this interpretation. Congregation, tribe are among possible interpretations.
Peace Man of Faith, I think you have unwillingly made my and
runninglikezebras point for us! By stating "face to face," then
the context becomes "face to face" or "face" towards an object, person
place etc., giving the word qibla the meaning of direction as I am now
"facing" in the direction of my computer screen!God bless you
peace
Do you have a Quranic/non-hadith or historical source for Muhammad changing prayer direction? Check this timeline http//searchformecca.com/timeline.html This timeline seems to contradict the change of Qiblah happened during Muhammads lifespan whatsoever.
Peace runninglikezebras , have you ignored 2/144? Thanks
the link, I do understand your point, however, I will believe that 2/144 is
correct, also the ayat does not say when this change would take place.God bless
peace
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Peace Man of Faith, I think you have unwillingly made my and
runninglikezebras point for us! By stating "face to face," then
the context becomes "face to face" or "face" towards an object, person
place etc., giving the word qibla the meaning of direction as I am now
"facing" in the direction of my computer screen!Yet, neither "face2face" nor "direction" fit into 108712, &c.! -X
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Mind you, mtqblyn (ن is a totally different derivative/lemma !
2144 clearly discredits "face2face"
the same way 1087 invalidates "direction" ...~ Be sound
Peace hicham9, Uh did you say facing? Like "facing" a person,
a building, etc., understand, one person "facing" something or towards
something. nice switcheroo, 2/144 does not invalidate direction.
and 15/47 mentions "face2face (in paradise, I think confronting is a poor choice).God bless
peace
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Hawk99,
Yes, but is the wrong grammatical formula for that argument.
And when the qebl becomes an object then it refers to "that before you" which does not need to mean literally but it can refer to what is present with you (before you).
Qebl can obviously mean that someone is in front of you (face to face) because the root means before/in front of. It also refers to admit/accept because you let someone or something into your proximity to be before you.
When Moses turns homes into qiblahs there are at least two linguistic mistakes in the passage. The home is assembly and qiblateh refers to follow the guidance (which is before). I have not yet been sitting down in a total analysis of the involved passage, but it is obvious. Their assembly was to be an aim which is also something which could be a qablateh (ة because an aim is your focus and what you face towards.
This word is abused by interpreters to create some sort of prayer direction when it does not refer to something physical. This is reinforced by the misconception that "almasjed al-haram" is a physical building.
Qebl is many times in Quran also interpreted as before in time when it is supposed to refer to "be before (in front of) you".
Salaam
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could be understood as "an approach" as a noun (object). Or "aim", a facing.
Salaam
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As already mentioned, I understand qblh as a place of acceptance/welcome/hospitality/cordial reception
Thus, to my knowledge
- In 2142/5, qblh denotes a destination = a site appointed to host the Messenger of G-D.
- In 1087, G-D instructs Ms? & his brother to settle their community in mr (Mesopotamia), make their homes hospitable, and establish/maintain the concord (lwh), ...
Nb. upholding a so-called "prayer direction" is clearly a denial of G-D's Omnipresence !
SLM
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peace hicham9,
Have you read the analysis of qiblah on the link given in my post?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602528.msg366439#msg366439The Quranic evidence points to qiblah meaning focal-point - focus of interest/attention or activity, i.e. something that receives one's attention/focus
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Peace @Wakas,
Truth be told, I didn't assess your analysis/understanding of qblh ...
... but, I did take a brief look at this write-up (yesterday)!
You know I agree with you on several (qurnic) denotations, but
qblh primarily denoting a "focal-point" just doesn't sink in for me! -\~ You'll have to convince me with reason and linguistics.
SLM
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Peace
The Qibla is The Focal point ( The Law ), that's the only logical conclusions I could draw after years of studying and observing relevant verses of the Qur'an and here on this forum.
A muslim to me simply means any "Law Abiding person ".
Peace
almarh0m
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Peace Man of Faith, I think you have unwillingly made my and
runninglikezebras point for us! By stating "face to face," then
the context becomes "face to face" or "face" towards an object, person
place etc., giving the word qibla the meaning of direction as I am now
"facing" in the direction of my computer screen!God bless you
peace
Peace runninglikezebras , have you ignored 2/144? Thanks
the link, I do understand your point, however, I will believe that 2/144 is
correct, also the ayat does not say when this change would take place.God bless
peace
Peace hawk99,
I'm aware of 2144. The thing is, I don't see any linguistic reference to a change in direction in that ayat. I'm assuming you understand this ayat does indicate a change because it mentions l-masjidi l-armi. In my understanding, "l-masjidi l-armi" is no change in Qibla. Contrary to the traditionalists, this to me a is a reference to Haram al-Sharif; Temple Mount. My whole understanding of the Qibla is that it quranically always has been Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif. The change in Qibla is a hadith concept that allowed the sectarians to move it later because of geo-political reasons to Mecca.
