Is Jerusalem the Qibla?
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peace hicham9,
If you did not read it, then there is no need for me to convince you.
peace almarh0m,
I considered such a view but it has several issues that just dont fit. For example, in order for this view to work I assume you consider 2142-150 to NOT refer to a change in qiblah?
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peace hicham9,
Have you read the analysis of qiblah on the link given in my post?
Truth be told, I didn't assess your analysis/understanding of qblh ... but, I did take a brief look at this write-up (yesterday)!
The Quranic evidence points to qiblah meaning focal-point - focus of interest/attention or activity, i.e. something that receives one's attention/focus
You know I agree with you on several (qurnic) denotations, but qblh primarily denoting a "focal-point" just doesn't sink in for me!
~ You'll have to convince me with reason and linguistics.If you did not read it, then there is no need for me to convince you.
Ok, Wakas!
I respect your opinion/view,
even though I retain the right to disagree with it.~ Be sound (-_-)
Based on the above, usage of the root QBL in AQ, CAD meanings, and the only other occurrence of "qiblah" in 1087, in terms of likelihood for the meaning of "qiblah", in my view, are
- focal-point - focus of interest/attention or activity
- direction - general aim or purpose; a general way in which someone/something is developing
- point-of-approach - a way in which to approaching something
- counteraction - to oppose and mitigate the effects of by contrary action
...
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Then, good for you!
To you be your judgment, and to me mine (1096).
SLM
Wow.. so now I'm close minded, a sunni and what not?
I don't know what makes you trigger like that. But to me the FACT there is a qiblah, as can be demonstrated with the orientation of early mosques does NOT imply one has to personify God or worship a place.
You don't seem to understand this Qiblah is of great symbolic value. All these historical mosques pointing to "the sanctuary" in Jerusalem. The Dome of the Rock being octagonal at the center of all these mosques.
The "Al-Aqsa" mosque is totally irrelevant when talking about qiblah. When Quran speaks about "al aqsa" it's litterally referring to the most far mosque. It never referred to the al aqsa mosque as it didn't even exist.
I think you are jumping to conclusions, the existence of a factual qiblah should imply we all need to pray in that direction and worship a geographical place. I know I'm not doing that.
If there is one virtue to this qiblah today, that you will find hard to deny this qiblah today is exposing the hadith fabricated lies about mecca, al aqsa mosque and many other sectarian interpretations. On top of this, the sectarian reversed interpretation of al aqsa being in jerusalem and l-masjidi l-armi being in mecca is giving the zionist forces in Israel a very strong case to say there is no valid islamic claim to Jerusalem, based on their own failed hadith understanding of Quran. If the sectarian interpretation is right, Islam has no claim whatsoever to Jerusalem.
The false interpretation of qiblah by the sectarians is so easy to expose, not only by the orientation of the early mosques but also by language. The sectarians claim, jerusalem traiditonally was known as al-aqsa - in the sense of the most far removed sanctuary. Of course this is a blatant lie. When Quran speaks about the battle between muhammads forces and the byzantine forces in palestine it is referred to as the "most nearby place". Even before Islam, jerusalem has always been known as the "sanctuary".
Peace
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Wow.. so now I'm close minded, a sunni and what not?
If you adhere to a (fixed) so-called "prayer direction" then YES,
I deem you close-minded! ... Happy now?~ G-D is Omnipresent (2115,177).
I don't know what makes you trigger like that. But to me the FACT there is a qiblah, as can be demonstrated with the orientation of early mosques does NOT imply one has to personify God or worship a place.
You don't seem to understand this Qiblah is of great symbolic value. All these historical mosques pointing to "the sanctuary" in Jerusalem. The Dome of the Rock being octagonal at the center of all these mosques.
The "Al-Aqsa" mosque is totally irrelevant when talking about qiblah. When Quran speaks about "al aqsa" it's litterally referring to the most far mosque. It never referred to the al aqsa mosque as it didn't even exist.
I think you are jumping to conclusions, the existence of a factual qiblah should imply we all need to pray in that direction and worship a geographical place. I know I'm not doing that.
If there is one virtue to this qiblah today, that you will find hard to deny this qiblah today is exposing the hadith fabricated lies about mecca, al aqsa mosque and many other sectarian interpretations. On top of this, the sectarian reversed interpretation of al aqsa being in jerusalem and l-masjidi l-armi being in mecca is giving the zionist forces in Israel a very strong case to say there is no valid islamic claim to Jerusalem, based on their own failed hadith understanding of Quran. If the sectarian interpretation is right, Islam has no claim whatsoever to Jerusalem.
Good for you!
~ yawn
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If you adhere to a (fixed) so-called "prayer direction" then YES, I deem you close-minded!
Happy now?
~ G-D is Omnipresent (2115,177)
Good for you!
~ yawn
I'll disregard the insults and reply regardless.
~ G-D is Omnipresent (2115,177) => How is this better illustrated then with a Qiblah that is still visible today? The early mosque in china (east) and the early mosques in the west all have the same qiblah pointing to jerusalem. Symbolizing Gods omnipresence.
This seems hard for you to understand, but masjids having a qiblah DOES NOT IMPLY it's a mandatory prayer direction.
ps I understand you have been traumatized by sunni doctrine in the past but I'm nowhere defending sunni doctrine. Find me one sunni cleric that agrees with what I'm saying here. So please keep those projections to yourself. It's unnecessary and a flawed analogy.
Peace
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Insults!? -\
As an ex-sunni, I used to adhere to "the prayer direction" myself = I was naive, ... and close-minded.
~ Once G-D unseals, ... things change.
& he who knows/sees is not like he who knows/sees not !
All praise, thanks and glory be to the one and only Ruler & Owner of us; The Supreme Assigner.
SLM
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To summarize my point of view condensed
• There never was a change in Qibla ordered by God
• The sectarians reversed the understanding of the places named as masjid in Quran. Reversing it so they could establish a pagan ritual place in mecca.
• The early mosques all point to jerusalem.
• The nightly travel of muhammad was one from jerusalem to the most far removed mosque. Not the other way around.
• The significance of qiblah is of symbolical value valid for places of worship. It is not a rule for your personal salat.
Peace
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Insults!? -\
As an ex-sunni, I used to adhere to "the prayer direction" myself = I was naive, ... and close-minded.
~ Once G-D unseals, ... things change.
All praise, thanks and glory be to the one and only Ruler & Owner of us; The Supreme Assigner.
SLM
Can't you read? I'm not even disputing it is not a direction for personal prayer it's a direction for the prayer in masjids. Their orientation pointing to jerusalem as is proven by architectural historical evidence.
Peace
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To summarize my point of view condensed
• There never was a change in Qibla ordered by God
• The sectarians reversed the understanding of the places named as masjid in Quran. Reversing it so they could establish a pagan ritual place in mecca.
• The early mosques all point to jerusalem.
• The nightly travel of muhammad was one from jerusalem to the most far removed mosque. Not the other way around.
• The significance of qiblah is of symbolical value valid for places of worship. It is not a rule for your personal salat.
Can't you read? I'm not even disputing it is not a direction for personal prayer it's a direction for the prayer in masjids. Their orientation pointing to jerusalem as is proven by architectural historical evidence.
~ For the 3rd time Good for you!
To you be your judgment, and to me mine (1096).
SLM
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Let's hear your understanding. How do you explain these early mosques all having a bearing to jerusalem? How do you call this in quranic terms if not qibla?
Peace
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This does not answer my question. How do you explain the historical and architectural evidence these early mosques all have a bearing towards jerusalem?
Coincidence?
