Reassessing the identity of: Israēl's Progeny
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You ask me how it is not questionable after I gave you examples of historical evidence of it? It linguistically interlocks with among others the moabite language, proto-canaanite language and phoenician. If you question paleo-hebrew, you will have to question all those others as well because they were indistinguishable before 1050 BCE. Paleo-hebrew started its own branch in the semitic language tree after 1050 BCE as the archaeological evidence shows you.
Peace
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To me the israelites in Quran are the descendants of the tribe of Jacob.
Peace
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Mind you, I rebuff "Classical Arabic" itself!
Hence, the so-called "Paleo-hebrew" sure seems like a good suspect to me.
To me the israelites in Quran are the descendants of the tribe of Jacob.
The (non-qurnic) doctrine that "Isral = Yacb" is based on a blasphemous (biblical) account!
~ clearly man-made fabrication!
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I'd be interested to hear your view of the etymology of all those hebrew foreign words in Quran then. Their hebrew origin is the only valid thesis. They have been properly studied and compared with other languages. Experts are sometimes even able to distinct the jewish or christian origin of those hebrew foreign words in Quran.
So what is language X then?
Peace
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It seems to me some of you only have an agenda of robbing the Jews of their entire culture. I wonder if this is because of an ex-sunni anti-semitic past or rather a confusion with hate for the modern zionist Israeli state.
Peace
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Paleo-hebrew was originally written in phoenician alphabet. Are you unaware of this? The text is hebrew though.
Pardon my ignorance, but
What discernable distinctions are there between an asserted "Paleo-hebrew" inscription and a Phoenician inscription?Ie. How does one distinguish between the two!?
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How does one distinguish between the two!?
One can't. What he calles "Paleo-Hebrew" is simply an extinct Phoenician vernacular (an archaic form of Aramaic). It's throwing the label of "Hebrew" (with a capital "H" on it that pisses me off.
Furthermore, there is not one passage in the entire Old Testament scripture that even remotely suggests or insinuates that the Israelites spoke "Hebrew".
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One can't. What he calles "Paleo-Hebrew" is simply an extinct Phoenician vernacular (an archaic form of Aramaic). It's throwing the label of "Hebrew" (with a capital "H" on it that pisses me off.
Furthermore, there is not one passage in the entire Old Testament scripture that even remotely suggests or insinuates that the Israelites spoke "Hebrew".
How do you explain pretty much everyone of the keywords in Quran referring to the Tanakh being a borrowed word from hebrew? If you don't think those numerable keywords are borrowed from hebrew then please enlighten us which language they were borrowed from.
Also please be aware paleo-hebrew is older than the use of aramaic alphabet for writing hebrew. Modern hebrew is based on the aramaic alphabet, paleo-hebrew is not.
@hicham They have distinct alphabets.
Peace -
One can't. What he calles "Paleo-Hebrew" is simply an extinct Phoenician vernacular (an archaic form of Aramaic).
It's throwing the label of "Hebrew" (with a capital "H" on it that pisses me off.You're probably right!
Furthermore, there is not one passage in the entire Old Testament scripture that even remotely suggests or insinuates that the Israelites spoke "Hebrew".
Fact.
@hicham They have distinct alphabets.
I'm afraid this is no answer to my question!
SLM
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http//i.imgur.com/lLj9o7z.png
http//www.lebtahor.com/ChartsMaps/semitic%20languages%20tree.gif
Quran is filled with borrowed words especially when speaking about topics referring to the Tanakh. It's even irrelevant to discuss wether those are phoenician or paleo-hebrew in origin. They are borrowed from the phoenician branch of the language tree, not the aramaic branch. Why would the Quran borrow words from a language that, as you claim, is not even native to the hebrews to describe events/figures relating to the Tanakh?
Obviously the majority of these words relating to Tanakh in Quran are borrowed from hebrew because this was their native language for centuries.
Peace
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Depends on who you're asking that question. Most orthodox jews who don't live in Israel would say it has been fulfilled already. To them, a return to Israel is out of the question. The diaspora being interpreted as a punishment from God. I tend to agree with them.
Peace
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Depends on who you're asking that question.
My questions are directed @Free minds!
Most orthodox jews who don't live in Israel would say it has been fulfilled already.
To them, a return to Israel is out of the question. The diaspora being interpreted as a punishment from God.I tend to agree with them.
Of course you do!
Like the rest of the sheeple have.
http//i.imgur.com/lLj9o7z.png
Honestly, I don't see how this 2nd column of a so-called "early hebrew" doesn't substantiate Pazuzu's argument!
What discernable distinctions are there between an asserted "Paleo-hebrew" inscription and a Phoenician inscription?
SLM
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The rabbit hole seems to go even deeper than I had imagined!
What about this qurnic prediction (174-7)!?
Was it fufilled already, or yet to be fully realized?
It had already been fulfilled.
The Quran 04 -07
And We conveyed to the Children of Israel in the Book that, "You will surely cause corruption on the earth twice, and you will surely reach great haughtiness.
So when came promise for the first of the two, We sent against you servants of Ours - those of great military might, and they probed into the homes, and it was a promise fulfilled. - Assyrians OR Babylonian OR Persians?
Then We gave back to you a return victory over them. And We reinforced you with wealth and sons and made you more numerous in manpower
"If you do good, you do good for yourselves; and if you do evil, to yourselves." Then when the final promise came, to sadden your faces and to enter the MASJID, as they entered it the first time, and to destroy what they had taken over with destruction.
CONTINUATION 17 101 - 104
And We had certainly given Moses nine evident signs, so ask the Children of Israel when he came to them and Pharaoh said to him, "Indeed I think, O Moses, that you are affected by magic."
said, "You have already known that none has sent down these except the Lord of the heavens and the earth as evidence, and indeed I think, O Pharaoh, that you are destroyed."
So he intended to drive them from the land, but We drowned him and those with him all together.
And We said AFTER Pharaoh to the Children of Israel, "Dwell in the land, and when there came the SECOND promise, We will bring you forth in MINGLE."
The second promise came as in verse 1707. That was when the Israeli fought among each other during the ministry of Esa. The Quran 6114
O you who have believed, be supporters of ALLAH , as when Esa, the son of Mary, said to the disciples, "Who are my supporters for ALLAH?" The disciples said, "We are supporters of ALLAH." And a faction of the Children of Israel believed and a faction disbelieved. So We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they became apparent / dominant.
So those who believe among the Israelite became an apparent / dominant entity. They accepted the guidance that Esa brought to them, while another group, went astray. This group rejected what Esa brought them, denied his prophethood and invented terrible lies about him and his mother.
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The first wd was probably fulfilled ... .
No matter what the case ~ investigation is a must.
The quest for Truth continues.
SLM
The Israelite are an extinct race. They were the last of a people who was directly descended from Nuh. The Quran is very explicit on this.
Q;2278 - And strive for ALLAH with the striving due to Him. He has chosen you and has not placed upon you in the religion any difficulty. THE RELIGION OF YOUR FATHER, ABRAHAM. ALLAH named you ALL ?Muslims? before and in this that the Messenger may be a witness over you and you may be witnesses over the people. So establish prayer and give zakah and hold fast to ALLAH. HE is your protector; and excellent is the protector, and excellent is the helper.
Israelite had nothing to do with Abraham. Abraham was never their father. The Quran
0333 - Indeed, ALLAH chose Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of 'Imran over the worlds
0683 - And that was Our argument which We gave Abraham against his people. We raise by degrees whom We will. Indeed, your Lord is Wise and Knowing.
0684 - And We gave Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - all We guided. And Noah, We guided before; and among his descendants....
1958 - Those were the ones upon whom Allah bestowed favor OF the prophets FROM the descendants of Adam and of those We carried with Noah, THAT IS, of the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and of those whom We guided and chose. When the verses of the Most Merciful were recited to them, they fell in prostration and weeping.
A careful study of the above verses shows that after mentioning Nuh, ALLAH mentioned Abraham. Abraham was a direct descendant of Nuh. Why mention Abraham and then someone else after Abraham? Since Abraham was direct descendant of Nuh, it goes without saying, no need to mentioned. By mentioning Nuh alone will be sufficient. Now lets look at another verse...
5726 - And We have already sent Noah and Abraham and placed in their descendants Prophethood and THE BOOK; and among them is he who is guided, but many of them are defiantly disobedient.
ALLAH says that HE place in their descendants - "their descendant" in Arabic , that means their own descendants respectively. It is a 3rd person masculine dual possessive pronoun. So it is clearly saying that Nuh and his descendants and Abraham and his descendants. So who was the descendents of Nuh and who was the descendent of Abraham? We do not need to go so far! In 1958 shows clearly who!
Besides, ALLAH has already promise Abraham that HE will make Abraham descendants a GREAT NATION. This was explicitly mentioned in the Torah - Genesis Chapter 17 and Quran 0458. Please read
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607276.0
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This (useless) question is very easy to resolve...
The first so-called "Israel" has a tomb here..
http//machpela.com/Abraham also has a tomb there..
Take an extract of their DNA from both the remains of the so-believed-to-be Abraham and Jacob.
And we can prove whether those two remains has a parent-child relationship..Assuming they do, afterwards, compare their DNA with the DNA of all people who are living today...
And see who has the "nearest" match to either DNA of Abraham or Jacob..And I'll not be surprised on the results of 'nearly everyone living today' have multiple degree of 'progenial relationship' with the DNA of Abraham or Jacob.
Assuming Abraham lived 4000 years ago.. every generation is 30 years and on average every generation has 2 children.
His genes has been passed on (and mixed) to become 2^(4000/30) = 2 ^133 = 10889035741470000000000000000000000000000 of people living today. -
@Hizbullah, I note some grave mistranslations in your posts!
Regardless, ...
I thank the FM members who have shared their voice and time with me ~ appreciate it.
Thank you @MOF, @Hizbullah, @JavaLatte, @runninglikezebras, @Pazuzu and @JafarBe sound,
my brethren.