Hafs & Warsh Quran prints, variants in texts, please post your best examples
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Peace Nonmushrik.
While you are right in pointing the various differences in various "Mushafs", We know now why and when that happened.
We also have a verifier thanks to GOD s preserved original tablet. We know which "Mushaf" is the original!
I suppose the question should be what is and where is the original copy of the Qoran?
Here is an example of an error of printing/writing
http//submission.org/verify_examples_of_errors_in_printings_of_Quran.htmlWho are we to believe ? Can we really find out what really happened?
Here is a version
http//submission.org/verify_writing_of_Quran_and_the_timing_of_the_mathematical_miracle.htmlKeep researching, do not be hasty in your choice,apply { 1736}
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
if allah promised to protect the quran, how exactly? As a kafir I just have to sit back and see how that "promise" panned out. It didn't, so it false.
Man whatever happened to that glorious christian achievement of humility , modesty and so on.
There is another answet to the conundrum you put up, and it is that you are blind.
So why are you here? You get kicks out of slandering the Qur'an and the Prophets or do you hope to save us?
If it is the first, you are dirtying yourself and nothing else. If it is the latter, the way you go about it is anything but commendable. You should raise the good points of whatever you are selling, and do not lower yourself to blackening others, such as the Prophet and the muslims treating us like we are idiots.
Your Lord Jesus has certainly not made out of you an example one would like to follow.
Salaam
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peace Nonmushrik,
Rather than jumping to other points, let us begin with your faulty premise. You have said for example "allah promised to protect the quran" but that is not what is stated in Quran.
Perhaps you should first begin by accurately stating the claim of Quran with regard to preservation, THEN cite your STRONGEST several examples that invalidate this claim AND state how they contradict/disprove the claim.
It's a really simple request.
I have studied this topic actually and the so-called discrepancies cited are negligible with regard to the message. And that is not even taking into account whether a systematic approach can clear up these so-called discrepancies, such as the cross-reference method Nun demonstrated. Layth's article does not cover that aspect, and to my knowledge this has never been done.
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Peace NON MUSHRIK
Those who stay in glass houses should not throw stones at other's houses.
You have gone too deep in the HAFS and WARSH version of the Quran (both flawless and unambiguous) but forgot to SEE your cherished BIBLE through the lens of LOGIC.
The Bible speaks about the creation of the universe. In the beginning, 1st Book, Book of Genesis, 1st Ch., it is mentioned - It says? ?Almighty God created the Heavens and the Earth, in six days and talks about a evening and a morning, referring to a 24 - hour day. Today scientists tell us, that the universe cannot be created in a 24 hour period of six days. Qur?an too speaks about six ?ayyams?. The Arabic word singular is ?yaum? plural is ?ayyam?. It can either mean a day of 24 hours, or it is a very long period, an ?yaum?, an epoch. Scientists say we have no objection in agreeing that the universe - it could have been created in 6 very long periods.
Bible says in Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses No. 3 and 5,??Light was created on the first day.? Genesis, Ch., 1 Verses, 14 to 19? ?The cause of light - stars and the sun, etc. was created on the fourth day?. How can the cause of light be created on the 4th day - later than the light which came into existence on the first day? - It is unscientific.
Further, the, Bible says Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses 9 to 13? ?Earth was created on the 3rd day. How can you have a night and day without the earth ? The day depends upon the rotation of the Earth Without the earth created, how can you have a night and day?
Genesis, Ch. No. 1 Verses 9 to 13 says? ?Earth was created on the third day.? Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses 14 to 19 says??The Sun and the Moon were created on the fourth day.? Today science tells us? ?Earth is part of the parent body? the sun.? It cannot come into existence before the sun ? It is unscientific.
The Bible says in Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse No. 11 to 13??The vegetation, the herbs the shrubs, the trees - they were created on the 3rd day And the Sun, Genesis, Ch. No. 1, Verses. 14 to 19, was created on the 4th day. How can the vegetation come into existence without sunlight, and how can they survive without sunlight ?
The Bible says in Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses No.16, that??God created two lights the greater light, the Sun to rule the day, and the lesser light the Moon, to rule the night. The actual translation, if you go to the Hebrew text, it is ?lamps???Lamps having lights of its own.? And that you will come to know better, if you read both the Verses ? Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse. 16, as well as 17. Verse No.17 says??And Almighty God placed them in the firmament, to give light to the earth? To give light to the earth.? Indicating, that Sun and the Moon has its own light - which is in contradiction with established scientific knowledge that we have. There are certain people who try and reconciliate, and say that the six days mentioned in the Bible, it actually refers to epocs - like the Qur?an long periods - not six, 24 hour day. It is illogical - you read in the Bible, evening, morning - It clearly states 24 hours, it indicates. But even if I use the concordance approach - no problem. I agree with your illogical argument - Yet they will only be able to solve the 1st scientific error of 6 days creation, and second, of first day ?light? and 3rd day ?earth.? The remaining four, yet they cannot solve. Some further say that? ?If it is a 24-hour period, why cannot the vegetables survive for one 24 hour day without sunlight?? I say ?Fine - If you say that the vegetables were created before the sun, and can survive for one 24-hour day, I have got no objection. But you cannot say the days mentioned are 24 hours as well as epochs - You cannot have the cake and eat it, both. If you say it is long period, you solve Point No.1 and 3, the remaining 4 are yet there. If you say the days are 24 hours day, you solve only Point No.5 - the remaining 5 are yet there - It becomes unscientific. I leave it to NON MUSHRIK whether he wants to say? ?It is long period?, and say that there are only 4 scientific errors - or say? ?It is a 24 hour day?, and say there is only 5 scientific errors in the creation of the universe.
Regarding the concept of Earth, there are various Scientists who have described? ?How will the world end.? Hypothesis - Some may be right, some may be wrong. But either the world will perish or the world will live forever. Both cannot take place simultaneously ? It is unscientific. But this is exactly what the Bible says. It is mentioned in the Bible, in the book of Hebrews, Ch. No.1 Verses No.10 and 11, and the book of Psalms, Ch. No.102, Verse No.25 and 26, that??Almighty God created the Heavens and the Earth, and they will perish.? Exactly opposite is mentioned in the book of Ecclesiastics, Ch. No.1, Verse No.4, and the book of Psalms, Ch. No.78, Verse No.69, that? ?The earth will abide forever.? I leave it to NON MUSHRIK to choose which of the two Verses are unscientific - the first pair or the second pair. One has to be unscientific - Both cannot take place. The world cannot abide forever as well as perish ? It is unscientific.
Regarding ?the Heavens?, the Bible says in Job, Ch. 26, Verse 11, that??The pillars of the Heaven will tremble.? Qur?an says in Surah Luqman, Ch. 31, Verse No.10, that??The Heavens are without any pillars - Don`t you see? Don?t you see the Heavens are without any pillars? - Bible says heaven have got pillars.
Not only do the Heavens have got pillars - Bible says in the first book of Samuel, Ch. No.2 Verses No.8, as well as the book of Job Ch. No.9, Verse No.6, and the book of Psalms Ch. No.75, Verse No.3, that? ?Even the earth have got pillars.?
In the field of ?Diet and Nutrition? lets analyse, what does the Bible say. The Bible says in the book of Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse No.29, that? ?God has given you all the herbs bearing seeds, the trees bearing fruits - those that bear seed, as meat for you.? New International Version says? ?The seed bearing plants, and the trees bearing fruits bearing seeds are food for you, all of them.? Today, even a layman knows that there are several poisonous plants like wild berries, stritchi, datura, plants containing alkaloid, polyander, bacaipoid - that which if you ingest, if you eat there are high possibilities you may die. How come the Creator of the universe and the human beings, does not know, that if you have these plants, you will die. I hope NON MUSHRIK does not give these vegetarian diet to his friends and relatives.
The Bible has a scientific test how to identify a true believer. It is mentioned in the Gospel of Mark, Ch. No.16, Verse No.17 and 18 - It says that? ?There will be signs for true believers and among the signs - In my name they shall cast out devils, they shall speak foreign tongues, new tongues, they shall take up serpents - And if they drink deadly poison, they shall not be harmed - And when they place their hand over the sick, they shall be cured.? This is a scientific test - In scientific terminology, it is known as the ?confirmatory test? for a true Christian believer. In the past 10 years of my life, I have personally interacted with thousands of Christians, including missionaries - I have not come across a single Christian, who has passed this confirmatory test of the Bible. I have not come across a single Christian who took poison - I have not come across any who took poison, and who has not died. And in scientific terminology, this is also called as the ?falsification test? That means if a false person tries and does this test? takes poison, he will die. And a false person will not dare attempt this test - If you are not a true Christian believer, you will not dare attempt this test. Because you try and attempt the falsification test, you will fail. So a person who is not a true Christian believer, will never attempt this test.
What does the Bible say regarding ?Hydrology?? Bible says in Genesis, Ch. No.9, Verse No.13 to 17, that? ?After God, at the time of Noah submerged the world by flood, and after the flood? subsided, He said? ?I put up a rainbow in the sky as a promise to the humankind never to submerge the world again, by water. To the unscientific person it may be quite good? ?Oh rainbow is a sign of Almighty God, never to submerge the world by flood again.? But today we know very well, that rainbow is due to the refraction of sunlight, with rain or mist. Surely there must have been thousands of rainbows before the time of Noah, peace be upon him. To say it was not there before Noah?s time you have to assume that the law of refraction did not exist - which is unscientific.?
In the field of medicine, the Bible says in the book of Leveticus, Ch. No.14, Verse No.49 to 53 - it gives a novel way for disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy? disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy. It says that? ?Take two birds, kill one bird, take wood, scale it - and the other living bird, dip it in water? and under running water - later on sprinkle the house 7 times with it. Sprinkle the house with blood to disinfect against plague of leprosy? You know blood is a good media of germs, bacteria, as well as toxin -
It is mentioned in the book of Leveticus, Ch. No.12, Verse No.1 to 5, and we know medically, that after a mother gives birth to a child, the post-partal period, it is unhygienic. To say it is ?unclean?, Religiously - I have got no objection. But Leviticus, Ch. No.12 Verse No.1 to 5, says that? ?After a woman gives birth to a male child, she will be unclean for 7 days, and the period of uncleanliness will continue for 33 days more. If she gives birth to a female child, she will be unclean for two weeks, and the period of uncleanliness will continue for 66 days. In short, if a woman gives birth to a male child? ?a son?, she is unclean for 40 days. If she gives birth to a female child? ?a daughter?, she is unclean for 80 days. I would like NON MUSHRIK to explain to me scientifically, how come a woman remains unclean for double the period, if she gives birth to a female child, as compared to a male child.
The Bible also has a very good test for adultery - How to come to know a woman has committed adultery. In the book of Numbers, Ch. no.5 Verse No..11 to 31, I?ll just say in brief, it says that? ?The priest should take holy water in a vessel, take dust from the floor, and put it into the vessel - And that is the bitter water ?And after cursing it, give it to the woman And if the woman has committed adultery, after she drinks it, the curse will enter her body, the stomach will swell, the thigh will rot, and she shall be cursed by the people. If the woman has not committed adultery, she will remain clean and she will bear the seed. A novel method of identifying whether a woman has committed adultery or not. You know today in the world, there are thousands of cases pending in different parts of the world, in different courts of law - only on the assumption that someone has alleged that a woman has committed adultery Why the Christian courts do not use this biblical method to confirm adultery/
NON MUSHRIK convince me that your BIBLE is authored by GOD, then I will leave Quran and follow your nonsense Bible. There are loads and loads of tremors for you in the waiting. I need answers from you and if you are a true Christian then you will reply me otherwise if you are staying in a glass house then be careful/
Thanks
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Indicating, that Sun and the Moon has its own light - which is in contradiction with established scientific knowledge that we have.
The moon indeed has its own light, I agree with this, but it is not because the Bible.
I don't believe in "NASA Science".
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As far as I am concerned the word "Yahweh" is not mentioned in the New Testament or in available non-canonical accounts such as "the Gospel according to the Hebrews" which is not surprisingly written in that language.
And, the Jews did use Elah and they use their own grammar forms for it. Elohim is the word to refer to the Elah for a plural crowd. Allah is a third person form of what GOD says to Moses as I have said many times on the forum.
A major part of the Old Testament very closely resembles the Zoroastrian faith in practice and it is quite safe to say Persian clerics were an influential part in its composition. More than Christian scholars probably like to admit, and probably traditional Jewish ones too.
As for what Yahweh means I am also slightly curious about. Several instances were it is used one can see the story is edited on another transcript, particularly when the Biblical account gives information on the 'Ten Commandments '. Yahweh is a particularly unrighteous god considered all the bloodshed in the Old Testament. Probably even more violent than "Allah" in mainstream interpretations. It may be what had the war machine the Persians going for centuries. The heavy warfare is unlikely original with the prophets but later additions.
There are many suspicious elements of the official Old Testament.
About a minted coin from the Persian province of Yehud bears the face of Yahweh completely in opposition with strict Jewish law against any image on coins or buildings. See this extract from Wikipedia about Yahweh.
"A drachm (quarter shekel) coin from the Persian province of Yehud, apparently showing the god YHW (Yahweh) as a bearded man seated on a winged and wheeled throne."
Source Wikipedia.org
Taking into consideration the heavy influence of Zoroastrianism in practice in the OT it is not impossible and there is a high probability that Yahweh is a Israel-Persian invention. I think you should do your research. Here is another quote from Wikipedia.org
"His origins are debated but there is widespread acceptance that he did not originate with Israel. His name may have begun as an epithet of El"
'El' is Elah/Allah in a direct exclamation which is used in Arabic for the article AL meaning "be as/such". Elah as a word means "Be As It".
As for Yahweh there are disputes as to how the word is pronounced. My theory would be that it is related to how the Yahoods referred themselves as but a more primitive form. Yehuueh is also a possible pronunciation. I am unfortunately still unskilled at the Hebrew alphabet so I would need the names of the letters comprising Yahweh as Arabic, Aramaic and Hebrew all use basically the same letters with different symbols. But I think they are Ya-ha-Waw-Heh (ه which according to my special talent would mean "the one attached to it". It seems like a version of "is what it is", i.e. the same as Elah. The Jews were likely told not to use it as an address for GOD because it simply is not, just as Elah/Allah is not meant to be used as an address for GOD.
The usage of Yahweh in the Old Testament is probably biased by Persian clerics considered its personal touch. Yet none of the speakers seem to say Yahweh as address.
Personally I think you make a severe mistake by adopting the sectarian Christian faith. I highlighted interpretation errors and flaws VERY easily verified if you are honest, but you even seem to ignore my written posts. You appear almost obsessive compulsively attached to your newfound faith blind to any intelligent counter-input.
If you are going to adhere to the Biblical Gospels alone I suggest you at least do your homework first and adhere to a non-sectarian account of "Christianity". Unitarian Christians are a good start if you like to compare thoughts. Even the very canonical Gospels expose the common trinitarian Christian sects as misguided with a brief sincere study. I also suggest you download non-canonical Gospel testimonies to compare the canonical.
And GOD (the Rabb) has no name but it is up to the one who is fallible to assign a suitable one. 'Rabb' is an old and suitable one which means Platform, Foundation or "what sustains/upholds/sustainer". If I like an English substitute I personally choose Platform for metaphorical discussion and parables. Jesus substituted Rabb with Father and the word Rabbi is commonly used to mark Teacher in Jewish tradition.
There is likely a big reason why the prophet of Quran does not use Yahweh and that is because it is simply not an Arabic word. However, Elah/Allah is probably a synonymous word in the Semitic root languages.
The author(s) of the Old Testament also seem to believe GOD has an andromorphic form since GOD can be seen as walking around physically in the Garden of Eden and is sitting upon a throne.
Please continue to read up on scholarly accounts
"El, not Yahweh, was the original "God of Israel"?the word "Israel" is based on the name El rather than Yahweh. He was the chief of the Canaanite gods, described as "the kind, the compassionate," "the creator of creatures"."
El (AL in Arabic) is used in MANY Hebrew/Semitic origin names. Emanuel, Gabriel, Rachael are just a few on the list of names who refer to the symbiotic belief about unity and attributes in GOD. This is the true account. The two letters Alif-Lam mean "Be As" both in Arabic AND Hebrew/Aramaic. My own name Emanuel means "Realized/Does As It" implying I act as GOD would, traditionally "GOD is with me".
In the above quote you see the characteristic attributes of Allah in Quran too, the Benevolent the Merciful (al-rahman al-raheem in Arabic). Like I said you should do your homework before you just reject something. Yaweh is one of many gods in the ancient Middle East just as Ahura Mazda. It is the same misconception as today 2015 and people are just as superstitious and tunnel-visioned as back then. For example, Muslims use Allah as a sort of sole name for GOD while it in fact is not. As I revealed it is actually a collective unity used in plural in Quran. The real "GOD" is non-separate from yourself (and cannot have a name without it being tantamount to shirk) and is your Platform (Rabb) to distinguish yourself in. You have the right information about Jesus so do like him and be (realize yourself) in Allah, your Platform and my Platform.
If GOD had a name in Quran it would not carry the AL article as prefix, although 'Rabb' is the closest thing to a name GOD has in the Arabic Quran.
Texts about the separate god entity Yahweh are likely compiled by misguided and confused, maybe Persian, clerics with Ahura Mazda on their mind. Yahweh is ultra-violent and lacks empathy and mercy and allegedly told the Children of Israel to slaughter a whole town, even the women and children (children are innocent).
You see a vast portion of the OT is just written by an authority who wanted to rally people to war and there is much hatred between the lines, not a characteristic of the Merciful Allah and very much against what Jesus teaches in the New Testament to the point of being completely incompatible. With such intolerance Jesus would have taught people to punish anyone breaking religious laws and being very cynical. Ironically the same kind of mind interpreted Quran and it is no wonder if it was in the hands of Persian clerics. Traditional Quran teaches that GOD/Allah is completely ruthless towards people who are deemed to be disbelievers and/or idol worshipers. But OT was no the better but even worse.
I suggest you read sections of my research scattered across this forum and you will get a different perspective of Quran. I intend to release a book codenamed "The Project" which will cover everything including a full reinterpretation of Quran, research details on the Arabic language and origin/etymology of the real account on religion including where the real religion was controlled (Persia). Unfortunately I estimate that it will still take several years until it will go to print, but I relay the progress on the forum frequently including objections to traditional arguments posted here which have no true basis but is a sectarian delusion.
And I doubt Quran was written in southwestern Arabia, but the Nabetaens (modern north Arabia/Iraq) were the likely people to have a man writing Quran. They invented Arabic script as late as in the 5th century AD while Aramaic had been in use for at least 1000 years prior to that. The Nabetaens were a prosperous trading community and reportedly skilled merchants and were good at adaptation to the harsh Arabian climate. Rich and prosperous is usually meaning they have the educational ability to host a prophet writing a book as it necessitates literacy and an academic mind not to mention the Arabic script is thought of having its origin here. Communities developing a scriptural language must be relatively advanced and advanced scriptural language such as Arabic does not occur in a barbaric community very unlikely. Arabic is the most easy to read Semitic script and fairly logical. The phonology can often be seen in the very letters themselves.
The original Arabic was likely completely written without diacritics as in the Kufic script and the religious wars likely had its origins in this region (ironically as it is today with the idiots IS). The Shia and Sunni split here. None of the sects are right, but Shia has an edge in their symbiotic belief about Imam Ali even though they idolize him in error. They have heavy resemblance to what the Christians believe in terms of attaining the spirit of. Unfortunately they got it a bit wrong and the prophets are not meant to be commemorated as gods but for their role modeling in the Unity of Allah.
Hope you have something to reflect upon now although I feel you follow others like a lemming, the most common human fallacy of the bodily instincts. Look I have been a pioneer in all the work I have put into this because I simply know how dishonest, easily misled and prone to conjecture man is, so I formed my own total assessment instead of trusting to follow someone else's, yet basing my view on fragments of available information and through authentic ancient lexicons. Finding the true account has been like finding a needle in a stack of hay because everyone else thinks "go with the flow" while I rejected the whole Quran's interpretation eventually after being critical towards it, with all right as a bunch of sectarian clerics and scribes have come up with it inserting their ignorant doctrine in it which has no basis there. You take the easy and lazy way out which I also liked to do by just discarding Quran and reverting back to Christianity although I would never choose the sectarian version of Christianity. I dislike saying I am more blessed than someone else, but I think you are blind and a bit foolish if you just dump Quran for mainstream Christianity.
Stop listening to everyone around you and do your own research or read my independent research. You should not believe everything you read and hear even if millions of people believe it. If there are 100 sheep and 1 sheep gets away, would you not go after the 1 sheep and leave the rest of the 99 behind? That is an ancient parable last relayed by Jesus meaning that the 1 sheep is one who breaks the shackles of the delusion and can show prominence.
Stop parroting Sunni here or Sunni there because they only have a role in the constant conjecture over the past 1000+ years of time. The factory of the ancient propaganda machine Sunni caliphates produced millions of Qurans until this day which contain the deceptive diacritical marks and slight adaptations to their doctrine, but yet there are available untouched accounts lying on museums in modern Iran in the Kufic script. The interpreters (clerics and scribes) focused on playing around with interpretation acrobatics and showing their "skill" in explaining what the Arabic said so the original Arabic is fairly untouched even in the average copy of Quran. It is a more work rewriting purposely a text than simply dogmatically inventing a meaning which is the case with Quran.
Sunnah or Hadith books and tradition has nothing to do with Quran. Salat and ramadhan has nothing to do with praying and fasting. To sacrifice you need a target which you do not have with this faith as GOD is symbiotic with yourself and you yourself make who you are. GOD is not separate from yourself as it is the Platform/Foundation.
If I were you I would leave both sectarian Islam and Christianity behind because both deal in misconception and idolatry. Even if one is the strictest GOD worshiper they are an idolator because they affirm there is duality, i.e. you AND GOD in existence as GOD is separate. The point is the real faith is supposed to be "There is only the Unity (Oneness) of Allah in existence where Rabb = Platform and you must tread in that image (be symbiotic) to persist" which means you need to discover your clouded (holy) spirit due to your fleshly body. That is the account as according to the prophets. It means you CANNOT make an image of ANYTHING in Heaven or Earth and worship it as it stands written in statute number two of the ancient law revealed to Moses and the statute includes an abstract image as well. May be the reason why Jews did not use Yahweh as address.
One could say there is no god only the Unity of Allah. That is nearly the meaning of the well known "la Elah ila Allah" phrase except "la" has a meaning as "As Be" (which is as) which the ancient interpreters could not tolerate due to their sectarian perception so they opted for "not" throughout Quran instead causing easily recognizable inconsistency for the perceptive. Arabic "not" is restricted to "ma" (short "vowel" sound) which is because meem ends in a closed emphasized ending with alif with no further attribute consequently giving a negative. Alif inside a word modifies letters and the phonology and the meaning slightly.
The post was much longer than I planned for and I end it here. I somehow doubt it was worth it, but perhaps someone else silently reads and appreciates it.
Salaam
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Peace hafeez kazi, you've written a whole essay here.
I need to clarify some points, before I even begin to seriously consider what you've posted.
You said "my nonsense bible", yet allah speaks rather highly of the bible, are you aware of this? Surah 543 & 547, allah doesn't see a problem with the bible, but you do, are you better then allah?
Can you explain why Christians are supposed to judge by the bible in Surah 547?
Can you explain why Jews are told to judge by the Torah, (Pentateuch, 5 Books of Moses) in Surah 543?
Most of what you've posted, comes from the Torah, which allah commands both you and me to judge by, so if your serious, why would you attack, the very book that allah praises?
In other words allah has done me a huge favour here by rebuking and refuting every letter you've just typed.
Surah 543, this is your allah speaking here,"And how can they come to you for judgment, when they have the Torah, in it (FIHA) is allahs judgment, yet they turn away, such are NOT BELIEVERS"
So my question is, is strangely, exactly what allah is saying.
Why are you coming to me (nonmushrik) for judgment, when you have the Torah? In that torah is your allahs judgment.
Do you really want to attack allahs judgment, this proves, by allahs standards, your actually a kafir, not my words, but your allahs
Do you want to proceed hafeez kazi?
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The "Torah" is just a minuscule part of the Biblical Old Testament. It is the instructions on how the Children of Israel are supposed to live their lives based on two stone tablets and no more and kept in the 'Ark of the Covenant' which appears long gone. The first stone tablet is said to contain 5 statutes on each side wheras the second contains supplementary information such as "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth...", i.e. an equivalent punishment based on the crime.
That was the revelation to Moses which was straightly GOD's words, i.e. very brief revelation with a set of guidelines. As per Quran Moses is seen being addressed by GOD saying "I am with you as long as you uphold the guidance".
The 'Ten Commandments' are slighly corrupted in their form in the OT so it might be misunderstood, but Jesus fortunately elaborates upon them again roughly 2000 years ago. Jesus did not change anything as per himself, but he gave light to the old decree through his elaboration which is his Gospel. The Commandments is clearly a set of recommended guidelines for spiritual growth.
Salaam
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Peace NONMUSHRIK
Quran never spoke of the present written old testament and new testament. It spoke about TORAH and INJEEL. Produce the original TORAH and INJEEL in the ORIGINAL language (not translated and written by men LUKES/JAMES/MATHEWS etc) then I will follow what the Quran commands.
If your Bible is authored by GOD then how HE committed blunders. I can post hundreds of such nonsense.
I told you that you convince me that your present Bible is authored by GOD then I will abandon the Quran and follow your Bible. But I am sure you will miserably fail in this attempt.
No follower of Quran will ever follow a man written book.
Thanks
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http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/046.%20Al%20Ahqaaf/Temp%2001%2046.04%20i.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/046.%20Al%20Ahqaaf/Temp%2001%2046.04%20ii.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/046.%20Al%20Ahqaaf/Temp%2001%2046.04%20iii.gifYou people come to me with a Book which Allah the Exalted sent earlier in time before this Grand Qur'aan.
Or you people bring to me tangible evidences-traces which are verifiable part of knowledge;
If you were truthful in what you said-keep saying".
Allah the Exalted through the Elevated Universal Messenger has laid down the criterion of truth; how to define and identify truth; the roles that revealed and acquired knowledge play; in respect of both relative and absolute truths. Relative truth is a reality with reference/relation to time and space, and the absolute reality is not bound within specific, or affected by time and space; it is universal. The criterion of determining truth is the Book of Allah the Exalted, documental evidence about a relative truth created at the time under study; and the tangible traces that can be subjected to test and verification as part of knowledge.
People keep communicating frivolous, mythical and fascinating assertions. The burden of proof of its truthfulness is upon the person, scholar, clergyman who asserts it; and upon those who repeat and propagate or plagiarize it. They need to be asked to quote . In case they adopt "selective inattention"-famous technique of Psychological Manipulators and purposely decide not to respond, one must conclude accordingly what Allah the Exalted has given verdict about such people
- Grand Qur'aan Burhaan The Truth-bearer Primary Source of Information and Evidence.
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Peace of The Lord Jesus Christ on you all
Wakas, if your position is that the Quran is not preserved in a sense of it being 1 text, 1 print, 1 revelatory book, and you accept that it's the "message" which counts, I guess that's your position, I'm not attacking you for that.
The only reason I personally don't accept that is because "LAHU" in Surah 159, is singular, either the "book" is singular or the "message is singular, which it's not.
For example, were those with a prophet "fought, QATAL" as in Hafs Surah 3146, or we're they "killed, QUTIL" as in Warsh Surah 3146? Either way, neither the text or the message is one here, to much doubt for me to claim either text or message as preserved.
I think you can see where I'm coming from, I have no issue with you or anyone else, so I'm sorry if I offended you, or anyone else.
Anyone actually reading what I'm saying, should see, I'm not lying, or being deceptive, I speak with proof and logic.
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Peace of The Lord Jesus Christ on you all
Javalatte and hafeez kazi, can you clarify something for me please?
Surah 543, Surah 547, Surah 568, Surah 7157 & Surah 616, all related to the people of the book.
What meanings did these verses have in the time of muhammad, in other words, when muhammad is reciting these verses to his contemporaries, what did they understand from these?
I'm understanding both of you don't believe this is taking about the Jewish "Torah" and the Christian "Injeel" which they had in their hands at muhammads time.
So what are the people of the book being told to judge by, and in which book is muhammad found written "MAKTUBAN" in Surah 7157?
Similarly how should the world today, and people who come in the future, who hear these 5 verses being recited today understand these?
Thank you, I await a reply.
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And how they Jews appoint you the Messenger as Judge?
Take note, the Tor'aat is available with them;
The command of Allah the Exalted is written within it.
Afterwards despite this Command they turn away;
And they are the people who are certainly not the believers.All meals were permissible for the posterity of Iesra'eel .
Except that which Iesraa'eel had forbidden upon his self in the times before Tor'aat were descended.
You the Messenger ask them "Thereby, to substantiate your assertion you come to me with At'Tor'aat, thereat, you read therein if you people were who express truthfully."Original was available in those days. They never produced the Original. Why?
