Truth about Ghusul and Janaba

hicham9

Being distracted or mentally absent ...

Amen to that.

... I'm of the opinion that gnb denotes remoteness ...

~ potential meanings include distant, detached, or aloof, ...

SLM

DaTruth

Salam Hassan

It is good to know that you are trying to understand Al-Quran purely from the text and without any pre-conceived concepts. I noted following two in your translation for 56

You have translated Iza in 56 as "if" whereas it means when
You have not translated FA in which means "then" and denotes a time lapse

Hope you can help me understand your translation.

Thank you brother for pointing that out and helping me out, I was trying to explain an idea and make it easier, you are right though and as I said in my first point I was also expecting errors but these are my first posts I should double check after I post ) . So to everyone reading, I will clarify that in 56 Allah does not say IF you stand up for prayers , it is When you stand up for prayer. As for the (Fa agsiloo) you are right I should make it clear there is a timelapse after between being dirty and cleaning but I think thats clear no matter what type of dirty there will need to be a timelapse ,and I wrote other 'fa' as when so my intention was not to translate but to simplify a large verse to 3 -4 bullet points im sorry If I confused you , Is there a way to edit after posting an ad a day later? If not Id like to clarify that the washing is done after being in a Junuban state,ex. after sex and not during it. May Allah guide us all. I will post my translation of this verse I think writing too much is actually confusing everyone , Inshallah I should have my translation of it up with proper grammer .

Thank you brother Novice )

DaTruth

All translations I have read sound awfully lame.

Salaam

Salam brother I was not translating I was interpreting , I will post a translation soon,thank you
The worb Junuban im no translating as those 4 things, Im saying its a group of people. Just like Mala'ika is a group of people and not a race thats why iblees was among them or Muhsinat is a group of protected women and not just married women likewise Junuban is a group of people that are in a state that requires them to excuse themselves . Ill explain more inshallah.

thank you my brother

DaTruth

Salam brother Huruf

''I can't see thst step you take of making the

equal to junub, as far as I can understand it speaks o different conditions. The junub you wash, but the others,m if you can't wash you do tsayammum, that is not foreseen for junub, unles arbitrarily you decide that junub is another way of saying all of those things, which I can't see the text warrants.''

The junub you wash OR purify (443), thats why IN 443 Allah swt says if ur junuban to purify. What does it say after

in both verses it says fa-lam tajudo maan. Its clear that you need to wash but Allah says to the junuban people if you cant find water to use sand.(sand purifies too).

As for drunkness issue my bad I was not understanding what you meant , so junuban is a state like drunkness? In either case we know scientifically NOTHING can remove drunkness except time, cold shower will increase your blood pressure so you feel less sleepy but your just as much drunk. Same goes for mindwandering and distractedness, I still daydream after showering maybe even more since I know for sure I daydream while showering. Is there any proof that water or washing yourself can remove a drunken like state or distractedness I have never heard anything like that before. If you have a link I would be interested in that. As far as I know Allah says to the one whos drunk while in prayer to not come to prayer until he knows what hes saying because time will heal his mind but for the state that you say parallels drunkenness how will time or water fix it? The part of the Ayat speaking of the one drunk during salat already teaches us to come to salat in a clear state of mind ATLEAST to the point where you can understand what you are saying. Would I need to to take a bath before wudhu to remove distractedness or would just clearing my mind be sufficient.

All translators interpret Junuban not just being in a state of major washing but its literally attached in meaning that its through sexual intercourse only that one achieves this state. I agree with you brother I dont agree with that interpretation but I think its part of junuban but not exclusive to it.

Brother in the same phrase where Allah says touched your women he also mentions those that come back from the washroom and dont have water to use sand..but he says'''or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself '' this is also referring to a man but that does not mean women should no clean after using the washroom either. Quran is meant for pondering, If a man has sex and needs to clean, the women would automatically need to as well,if a man has to clean after using the washroom,the women aswell should too. ex. Allah says he answers to call of the calleer when he calls on him ( al da-ee idha da-ani) this is masculine , does that mean Allah only answers male believers...no . Its clear that in the same part of the ayat Allah mentions (him who comes from the toilet) so you should not think it only applies to men that if they cant find water to do tayummum, what about women who relieve themseles is Allah going to leave them without a way to purify without water. The Qur'an is quite able to say the appropriate words to convey any meaning.

thank you brother huruf )

DaTruth

I hate to say my translation so I wont say im making a translation I believe the Quran cant be translated and only meant in Arabic, but I will try to interpret it.

O you who have believed, do not approach prayer while you are intoxicated until you know what you are saying. ( this statement is done)

and neither a state of janabah, until you have washed

'and if you find no water',

then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and your hands . Indeed, Allah is ever Pardoning and Forgiving.

I think its clear as day I dont see why you cant relate junbuban with those 4 groups. Why is Allah saying if your these 4 types of people and you cant find water?? Why would they need water....to do wudhu or taghseel with thats why. What does an ill person need water for? to wash, what does a journeyman need water for in this context ,to wash, and same with the one who comes from bathroom or sex and not for any other reason .

My translation does not change any words or add anywords but just tells you to erase everything you know about this verse and replace the 4 types of people with the word janaba, once you do that read this whole verse and all of 56 again with that in place it will make complete sense. Especially when Allah removes Abrir sabeel from the equation after taking the words Ighsalu (Wash) out and replacing it with taharu(purify) .

My interpretation
Here lets look at 56 its a little easier to understand because it does not mention drunkness.

O you who believe! When you stand up for the prayer, then wash your faces and your hands till the elbows and wipe your heads and your feet till the ankles.

But IF you are (in) a state of ceremonial impurity then purify yourselves. (beforehand)

But if you dont find water, then do with clean earth, then wipe your faces and your hands with it. (I took the explanation of Janaba out to make it easier to understand)

Allah (does) not intend to make for you any difficulty but He intends to purify you and to complete His Favor upon you so that you may (be) grateful.

Allah would not just say dont be junuban and leave it for us to guess what it is and then Allah says we do not intend for you any difficulty. Allah does not intend any difficulty he explains clearly how we can do ''wudhu'' before salat even if we dont have water .

So with all that in mind my translation
Here lets look at 56 its a little easier to understand because it does not mention drunkness.

O you who believe! When you stand up for the prayer, then wash your faces and your hands till the elbows and wipe your heads and your feet till the ankles.

But if you set yourself aside then purify* yourselves.(set aside due to sickness, set yourself aside to go on a journey for business or w.e it may be, set yourself aside to use the bathroom and set aside to have sexual relations then purify yourself) Allah uses the word purify instead of taghseel so I include the journey man in this statement.

But if you are Junuban and find no water, then do (with) earth clean, then wipe your faces and your hands with it.

Allah (does) not intend to make for you any difficulty but He intends to purify you and to complete His Favor upon you so that you may (be) grateful.
.
443 Translation

O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say (end of statement)

nor come to prayer when you are set aside------except the journeyman------ until you have washed yourselves; (this verse is for the ill, the ones who come from the bathroom and the ones who have had relations with their women and not the journeyman)

and if you are Junuban (sick, or on a journey*, or one of you come from the privy or you have touched the women) and you cannot find water,
betake yourselves to pure earth, then wipe your faces and your hands; surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving.

Very simple I see it, Do ghusul of salat before every salat but if your defiled then clean yourselfs and if you cant find water use sand.

There are many hints , 1st Allah is not going to say Junuban and not explain to use what that is so he explains directly after mentioning junub what that is.
2- Allah swt says if your junuban wash with water except the journeyman but in another he says if junuban purify without exception, this hints at cleanising and not drunkness or being distracted , otherwise the exception(journeyman) would be able pray drunk and distracted without needing to purify nor wash. That would be like saying Dont come to prayer while drunk or distracted without purifying except for the journeyman. I dont know why some assume its a type of distractedness or a type of drunkness, is it because all mentions it after mentioning sukara in 56? In 443 which I believe came before 56 personally doesnt mention any sukara or drunkness but says to wash before prayer and if Junuban to purify (with no exceptions mentioned this time and only change being the word taghseel to tahara) is there any hint that its a type of distractedness or drunkness? Nor would it make sense scientifically for water to cleanse you of that
3- Allah tells us to do ''wudhu'' before salat, however this does not cleanse you fully , so Allah tells us to wash seperately from ''wudhu'' if were dirty (from those things we set ourselves aside to do) . Allah then names 4 things that we set ourselves aside to do and says and if you for some reason cant find water to use sand and this does not make an exception to the journeyman since he can use sand. My point is its 2 types of wash a ceremonial one and a general one.
4- Why is Abri sabil or the journeyman being an exception after Allah says Taghseel or to wash with water?? makes sense since of those 4 groups he should NOT be expected to have water or it will be difficult for him and Allah intends no difficulties in practicing our deen.. While an ill person,one who uses the bathroom or on who has sex can still wash , a journey man might not so Allah doesnt oblige him to, but with tayummum or cleaning with sand they are all mentioned specifically.
5- What is the point of adding part of the ayat??? Is it to replace ''wudhu'' for muslims if they cant find water?? Why specifically mention a group of people instead of just saying if you cant find water take sand and ........, but instead it says if your ill,on a journey,finished from the bathroom or had sex and you dont find water , to use sand because this verse is further explaining the Junuban and thats why Abrir sabeel is included as an exception (wa la junuban ila abrisabeel) directly after mentioning the Junuban in the first part of the ayat. So what happens if im not one of those 4 people and dont have water? Its clear that those 4 groups of people have on them bodily fluids and thats why Allah seperates these 4 and groups them specifically( &#1614 and generally (Junuban ila abrisabeel) sick man is germy,snotty,puky,bloody etc, travelling man is sweaty,stinky,one from the washroom self explanatory and same goes for sex where you will also have bodily fluids on you and Allah is simply telling us to clean ourselves from these states he calls Janaba (where you set yourself aside from people and understandably so in my opinion).
6- this part MUST be a further explanation of the preious part of the ayat (Janaba part), it would be off topic for Allah to mention a bunch of people and say if they cant find water they should do this instead! its like saying Eat pizza only after washing your hands first,but if you came from the gym,came from fishing or just woke up and you cant find any pickles then eat zucchini instead. You know what I mean why would these people gym,fisherman,sleepy guy need a pickle? Why would ill man,traveller, guy who came from the bathroom and one who came from sex need water? but alhamdillah Allah says before he says that , if your dirty then wash and it all falls into place.

So you can hypothetically split the ayat in 2.

O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say,

nor when you are under an obligation to perform a bath-- unless (you are) travelling on the road-- until you have washed yourselves; and if you are sick, or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth, then wipe your faces and your hands; surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving.

or

part 1 -O you who believe! when you rise up to prayer, wash your faces and your hands as far as the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles;

part 2- and if you are junuban, then wash (yourselves) and if you are junuban*** and cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth and wipe your faces and your hands therewith, Allah does not desire to put on you any difficulty, but He wishes to purify you and that He may complete His favor on you, so that you may be grateful.
***are sick or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy, or you have touched the women.

I hope ive made my position clear.

Thanks again guys and all praise belongs to our creator.

Hassan

huruf

Really, really, you want to make of my words whatever you want no matter what I say, fine. But then say it yourself do not involve me. junubsan is not like drunkness and I have never said that, and I do not know wheter you misunderstand because you never, nuever, but never hsave a state of absentmindedness or mental disquiet or similar things that encroach con concentration, but if you do not you are the first person I hear of to whom that does not happen. Nut still you insist on drunkness...

I still do not see the step whereby you make all those things mentionned after junub as meaning the junub. If it goes all the stretch of mentionning both times junub is used each of those things separately, what was the use in the first lace of using a word that is not used again in the whole of Qur'an to mean those things that are mentioned separately both times? Does not make sense, and there is nothing that indicates that it is an umbrella word for a list of things that come after in a completely separate sentence in both cases.

And by the way tatahhara ghasala are not synonims. Washing may be a way or a means of purifying but it is not the same thing as purifying.

And how does coming out of the toilet refer only to men? Anybody can go to the toilet, but having sexual relationships with women, in the Qur'an in can only mean that you are a man, not a woman, but go to the toiolet can be a man or a woman.

As to washing, yes, if you are not very sharp or alert, usually what people do as a first measure is to wash with cold water, as far as I know. That is the most inmmediate. But to you it seems that it makes more lost, so forget it. Change if to "everybody except you should wash". Water must have something to do with it, since it does not say that if you are junub do tayammum.

Salaam

huruf

I dont have a translation of this verse all im doing is ordering it so you can see it how I see it , but first I want to re-explain what im trying to say.