Oldest Qur?an manuscript MA VI 165
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Salaam hezbullah,
It is nice information that you present, even if I do not agree with everything.
Salaam
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Peace Hizbullah -- no,you have not shown us anything and the burden of proof is on you to show an older Qur'an.
comparative adjective older i.e. requires at least two to compare and hence we are waiting for you to post proof.
Peace Noon,
The Quran tells me everything, do I need further proof?
Peace
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Salaam hezbullah,
No. Nothing important. Just formalities on faith perception. We both acknowledge that there is only one Rabb.
Salaam
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Salaamun alaykum, Noon Waalqalami,
Thank you for the clarification. I was able to check today, and the ayat YaaSeen is numbered 361 in the 6 Riwaayat originating from Kufa. It is not numbered in the 8 Riwaayat originating (2 each) in Basra, Damascus, Madinah and Makkah. In these it is combined with the following ayat (in Kufa Riwaayat 362) as 361. As a result, Sura 36 in Kufa Riwaayat has 83 numbered ayats, whereas in the other 8 Riwaayat it has 82 ayats.
Salaam, Milan
Peace Milan,
Had another look which in this Qur'an verses 361 and 362 are actually combined in single verse...
361 ya seen and the Qur?an the wise
http//oi61.tinypic.com/2zrqotc.jpg
Which is similar as with...
381 saad and the Qur?an owner the reminder
501 qaf and the Qur?an the glorious
Also checked 301 alif-lam-meem that it's same as we have today i.e. single verse.
If consistent would be 6235 (#of initialed chapters 29 x 215) verses.http//oi59.tinypic.com/25a6d50.jpg
http//oi62.tinypic.com/15dbcbc.jpg
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AQ; 0262 - Indeed, those who believed, that is, those who were Jews and Christians and Sabeans - who believed in ALLAH and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.
It says clearly that those who are Jews, Nasara and Sabeans and believe in ONLY ONE ALLAH AND THE LAST DAYS, there will be no fear nor grieve! These people submitt to ALLAH. They were MUSLIMS!
Know the information about the people identified-recognized-referenced in time and space as those who willingly accepted-believed;
And those who reverted to identity of Jews, and those who identified themselves as the Nisaa'ra; and those the Sa'bi'een;
Subject to condition that one had willingly accepted belief in Allah the Exalted and the Last Day and had performed-acted as a righteous person;
Thereby, the reward of such people is in wait-prepared for them by Grace of their Sustainer Lord.
Moreover, not at all fear will overshadow-haunt upon them. And they will neither have a cause for grieve.Waw and Relative pronoun does not mean "that is".
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Peace Noon,
That is what you said, not the Quran. The Quran is the ONLY evidence left in this world, telling us what has been going on in the past.
It seems you DID NOT read all the Quranic evidence shown.
Again, you are wrong. There were believers, who submit to the ONE ALMIGHTY ALLAH. The Last Prophet was not sent to established a new religion. He was sent in an era where the people were in dilemma of their believes. He was sent to CONFIRMED THE PEOPLE BELIEVES IN ONE ALMIGHTY ALLAH OR WHAT EVER BEAUTIFUL NAMES THAT IS ATRRIBUTES TO THE ALMIGHTY!
There were besides others Jews, who are a monotheistic believers. The first actual use of the word Arab in history is to be found in an Assyrian inscription of 853 B.C., commemorating the defeat of a mutinous chieftain, called Gindibu the Aribi during the reign of king Shalmaneser III (858-824 B.C.). Arabs are then mentioned quite often, until the 6th century B.C. as Aribi or Arabuthat indicates vassalage to the Assyrians ? referring to the Arabs' use of the word, it occurs for the first time in the ancient epigraphical material originating in SOUTHERN ARABIA. In the north, the word is used firstly in the 4th century A.D., in one of the oldest surviving records of the language that became classical Arabic. According to Dr.Fadel al-Rubaie who, solidly concludes in his thesis that Judaism is an old Arab religion, and the Torah is a Yemeni book. He also concludes that old Jerusalem is not present-day Jerusalem. It is located in Yemen and not Asir, as the late intellectual Kamal al-Salibi concluded in his book "The Bible Came from Arabia". The Arabs are / were nothing more but the ORIGINAL JEWS OF SOUTH ARABIA.
The Nasara, who were divided into those who believes, the Monopysites and the Trinitrians. Those who called themselves Monophysite or Trinitrians are considered NON-BELIEVERS. The Monophysites and Trianitrians were in a feotuses stage in the Middle East during the 3rd Century. The Nasara mentioned were of Israelite and Arab ancestry.
There were others besides the Jews and Nasara, as the Quran says
AQ; 0262 - Indeed, those who believed, that is, those who were Jews and Christians and Sabeans - who believed in ALLAH and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.
It says clearly that those who are Jews, Nasara and Sabeans and believe in ONLY ONE ALLAH AND THE LAST DAYS, there will be no fear nor grieve! These people submitt to ALLAH. They were MUSLIMS!
Peace.
Is it based on
http//ismaili.net/heritage/node/10208http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/07.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20009/7.%20Arbi%20Ain%20Ra%20Ba%20language/4.gif
Have you given a thought as to what type of a noun is this?
It is a noun termed as Relative Adjective . It is a noun having a consonant "Yaa- " suffixed to its ending which indicates its relation to the noun from which it is derived. Thus, a unique feature of this language is that it defines the identity of its own people the language of the sons of soil of Arabian peninsula; the language of the land that hosts the "House of Allah" on the Earth; and the universal leader of humanity, the Last Messenger of Allah the Exalted, Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam.
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Is it based on
http//ismaili.net/heritage/node/10208http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/07.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20009/7.%20Arbi%20Ain%20Ra%20Ba%20language/4.gif
Have you given a thought as to what type of a noun is this?
It is a noun termed as Relative Adjective . It is a noun having a consonant "Yaa- " suffixed to its ending which indicates its relation to the noun from which it is derived. Thus, a unique feature of this language is that it defines the identity of its own people the language of the sons of soil of Arabian peninsula; the language of the land that hosts the "House of Allah" on the Earth; and the universal leader of humanity, the Last Messenger of Allah the Exalted, Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam.
Peace Mazhar;
Even so, if it is, the Quran is very explicit to say
And We did not send message of a messenger except in the language of his people to state clearly for them,
As such, it is safe to say that Muhammad is / was not the Last Prophet of ALLAH but ONLY a messenger of ALLAH to the language of the sons of soil of Arabian peninsula or to be explicit, South Arabia.
How can a messenger state clearly to his people, say Chinese people, in the Arabic language? Only a Quran in a Chinese language, given to a Chinese Messenger, so that he can state clearly to his people base from Quran ORIGINALLY written in Chinese language!
Peace
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Know the history, Our Majesty did not send a Messenger with the Message-Book except in the language of his nation to whom he was sent. The objective was that he might explicitly express for them that which they must avoid.
Thereby, having made fact evidently explicit, Allah the Exalted lets remain neglectfully straying the one about whom He so decides. And He the Exalted guides the one about whom He so decides .
Be aware, He the Exalted is Pervasively dominant and the Infinitely Just Supreme Administrator of the created realm, visible and invisible.The inference is drawn and a statement is made on the strength of a statement of Grand Qur'aan. Its evaluation should also be made from the same source.
Grand Qur'aan Universal information-code in Arabic needs to be translated for dissemination across the linguistic boundaries
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Know the history, Our Majesty did not send a Messenger with the Message-Book except in the language of his nation to whom he was sent. The objective was that he might explicitly express for them that which they must avoid.
Thereby, having made fact evidently explicit, Allah the Exalted lets remain neglectfully straying the one about whom He so decides. And He the Exalted guides the one about whom He so decides .
Be aware, He the Exalted is Pervasively dominant and the Infinitely Just Supreme Administrator of the created realm, visible and invisible.The inference is drawn and a statement is made on the strength of a statement of Grand Qur'aan. Its evaluation should also be made from the same source.
Grand Qur'aan Universal information-code in Arabic needs to be translated for dissemination across the linguistic boundaries
Off course I know the history, do you? The Arabic of verse 1404 is so clear!
How can it be explicit to a Chinese? SO ALL CHINESE ARE LOST AND THE WRATH OF ALLAH WILL BE ON THEM?
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If the god only sent messengers to its own community it means it is very unevenly balanced, since people who came with comprehensive messages went to Middle-East but left the rest of the world to its own destiny.
Actually the message of the Messiah spread all over Europe and into the Hellenistic Roman Empire and caused change usually for the better in the long run. Christian values are well known still as of today and is probably an influence on Socialism.
Yet some people deny that there was no Messianic figure who caused a lasting effect on the European community, while the catastrophic Middle-East generally contended those values and are still 2000 years later backwards on things such as human rights, peace, stability and the technology is usually borrowed, and propagating Dark Age philosophy which not even Jesus who were before Quran would stand behind. It is one thing with the (political) "Son of God" blabber, but the broken church also brought so-called Christian values and a kind of renewal a millennium later with Martin Luther and the German Protestant movement. Read up on history. It is arguable whether Martin Luther could not be considered a little messenger of his own.
Much of the early development of the Arabian culture is thanks to Roman and Greek conquest and cooperation with Arab communities such as the Nabetaens. The Arab 'Golden Age' is thanks to Persian clerics and Romans who brought fairly civilized communities around them compared to contesting barbarians.
It easy to become opinionated and claim every ancient community as evil and good-for-nothing because they were active in war and conquest and often with lacking human rights and slavery to various degree, but both the Persian Achemenid (and to some extent the successors) and Roman (Greco-Roman) empires were successful because they because they civilized their surroundings in bringing technological advancement but also well working governmental systems and spoke of real justice. Yes, there existed a justice system in the Roman Empire. The Achemedian system was innovative and effective for its time. The Greco-Romans are likely inspired by what the ancient Persians brought forth. During their time they were quite renowned even if not loved due to politics. Morals and order is also what brings forth a good civilization instead of brutes.
It is ignorance which causes people to look down on the Messianic influence Jesus had on the European society. It is the politicized Christianity which has been bad for Europe while the message of value was beneficial. Christian values can be said to be the influence on Socialism and also Communism (which unfortunately has an undeserved bad reputation).
Quran textually attacks "Bani Israel" and focuses on Arabs. Should the rest of the world ignore it too and not only Jesus for Christians?
And sorry for being off-topic which we all are here who posted recently.
Salaam
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Is an English discourse not explicit for a Chinese who has learnt a second language?
With this Arabic Quran, there are so many dispute in the translation, you know very well, no two Qur'anists can ever agree on a single translation or interpretation of a verse in the Qur'an.
Besides, the fact is 1404, which tells us explicitly that for every people there are / were Messengers who convey / conveyed the message to them IN THEIR LANGUAGE TO MAKE CLEAR TO THEM.
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Dear All, Peace,
If u read old Egyptian history,pictorial sigh language
and figures engraved in hard rock,which nature cannot rub-off or make them vanish.writing and making pictures on stone is very very old,older than old Egypt,Islam came to this world much later,now my question to Alah is,why did you not engraved the quran on stone..??? This forum is full of debate as to which was the oldest quran,were there markings or dots? Arabic grammer ws yet not developed,so why did Allah not enraved whole of quran with its meanings on stones or on a mountain..??? My take is that God wanted every one of us to draw his own picture of a religion which he thinks is the best,this will give him an OK from God,but should not try to impose it on others,imposing will weaken you ,take away your energies and knowledge,this is why there are hardly a few people who have energy and knowledge,they force nothing on u ,but you are inspired by u ,this is the right way but very few adopt it,I need ur help and suggestions ,thanks for reading this. rotfl welcome -
Exactly, Marifhaq, Quran came in a language people could not understand albeit perfectly clear for the person who could work out its grammar system which is not particularly hard actually, but it does not help the interpreters to improvise and come up with something to suit their own flimsy sectarian doctrine. Perhaps not utterly intentional, but they sure tailored it so Quran suited their doctrine rather than the opposite, i.e. their doctrine suited Quran.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Dear All, Peace,
If u read old Egyptian history,pictorial sigh language
and figures engraved in hard rock,which nature cannot rub-off or make them vanish.writing and making pictures on stone is very very old,older than old Egypt,Islam came to this world much later,now my question to Alah is,why did you not engraved the quran on stone..??? This forum is full of debate as to which was the oldest quran,were there markings or dots? Arabic grammer ws yet not developed,so why did Allah not enraved whole of quran with its meanings on stones or on a mountain..??? My take is that God wanted every one of us to draw his own picture of a religion which he thinks is the best,this will give him an OK from God,but should not try to impose it on others,imposing will weaken you ,take away your energies and knowledge,this is why there are hardly a few people who have energy and knowledge,they force nothing on u ,but you are inspired by u ,this is the right way but very few adopt it,I need ur help and suggestions ,thanks for reading this. rotfl welcomeWhy should He?
There are Trillion and Zillion of God's signs spread all around this universe which
- Cannot be forged / manipulated by Human
- Do not have any dependency on the lifetime of human language (Any language will evolve and eventually die / forgotten)
- Do not have any dependency on the lifetime of human script (Any script will evolve and eventually die / forgotten)
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Exactly, Marifhaq, Quran came in a language people could not understand albeit perfectly clear for the person who could work out its grammar system which is not particularly hard actually, but it does not help the interpreters to improvise and come up with something to suit their own flimsy sectarian doctrine. Perhaps not utterly intentional, but they sure tailored it so Quran suited their doctrine rather than the opposite, i.e. their doctrine suited Quran.
Be safe
AmenuelPeace Brother MOF,
Sorry but again you are speculating when the Quran is very clear and easy to comprehand.
Quranic Evidence 6304
And when you see them, you wonder their personality and when they speak, you listen to their speech. Indeed they were MUSNAD WOOD.
The above verse shows that the Prophet were with those who spoke the South Arabian Musnad language. As a Prophet, he was sent to all people and conveyed the Quran in several different languages .
So base from the verse 1404, messengers were sent to his own people in order to make things clear to them. The Prophet went to South Arabia and a Messenger among the South Arabian was selected so as to convey the message to the South Arabians in their own language.
The Quran 16103; And We certainly know that they say, "It is a MORTAL WHO TEACHES HIM. THE TONGUE OF THE ONE WHO DEVIATES ON HIM IS FOREIGN and this is clear Arabic language.
The verse above shows that the mortal person was a foreigner, who taught him, that is, the student, who was an Arab considering the fact that the Quran in Arabic was the teaching material! This shows clearly that the Prophet of the Quran was not an Arab but a foreigner and taught the Arab Messenger.
As such, verse 6304 proofs that the OLDEST ARABIC VERSION OF THE QURAN WAS WRITTEN IN SOUTH ARABIAN MUSNAD!
You want to know how South Arabian phonology, see below
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU4s8Qvl9fg
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfCo__kUowk
The second question, who was the Arab Messenger?
Peace
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Hello Hizbullah,
No matter what you are speculating yourself, Quran was not even interpreted when I realized there was an entirely different writing and some clerics and scholars tailored it as according to themselves. Obviously it appears Quran is not as easy and comprehensive, at least not to those fools and those who followed them blindly without investigating logically themselves. I can agree that Quran is not particularly hard to decipher if you are witted enough to disillusion the bubble that those ancient interpreters tried to cover Quran with.