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Freedomstands,
Yes I know that very well because I am a researcher on religion and particularly Abrahamic ones. But that does not say that prostration is a prescribed practice in the perception of GOD. And the words in Quran do not refer to physical practices and since Quran is not a Pagan book it primarily focused on the abstract and speaks against materialism (Paganism).
Prostration predates most of monotheism too but people did that in polytheism to worship their gods who had a physical apparition.
The prostration itself does not come from religion exactly, but is an ancient kind of formal greeting and show of humbleness.
Yeah, that is right, pagans did it too, it was a type of formal expression yeah.
I did it in the swimming pool the other day, lol maybe I'm the first ever to do the formal worship in water, maybe not though.
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But worship in older Aramaic and Hebrew texts seem to lack mention of any ritual even though occasionally the people do prostate. Jesus seems to oppose the Pagan way of praying altogether. There are never any specific details on prayer mentioned in any non-Arabic text that I have encountered so far. I have seen kneeling and outstretched hands as well.
I consider the prostration ritual to be a sectarian invention and a remnant from Paganism. Not do GOD have any need for it whatsoever nor do you as a person have any benefit from doing some intricate physical moves either except from natural exercise. GOD knows what you are going to say before you even opened your mouth and GOD knows better than you do what you need.
"Prayer" in the non-sectarian account is meant for personal reminding; that you recite a succession of chosen words to realize yourself in whereupon you say "amen" (be done so).
GOD on the other hand is in constant communion with you as long as you are not sealed off which happens that the majority of people are because their "Door" fades away while their helmet falls down over their eyes so they cannot see.
And the way you glorify GOD is by walking in its aura to be perfected. Only the good fruit will be harvested and saved. The bad will be discarded, and sadly it appears GOD's harvest will be meager. But GOD likes the best of the best for why should GOD "eat" rotten fruit?
The roots need to not be from this world.
Be well
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But worship in older Aramaic and Hebrew texts seem to lack mention of any ritual even though occasionally the people do prostate. Jesus seems to oppose the Pagan way of praying altogether. There are never any specific details on prayer mentioned in any non-Arabic text that I have encountered so far. I have seen kneeling and outstretched hands as well.
I consider the prostration ritual to be a sectarian invention and a remnant from Paganism. Not do GOD have any need for it whatsoever nor do you as a person have any benefit from doing some intricate physical moves either except from natural exercise. GOD knows what you are going to say before you even opened your mouth and GOD knows better than you do what you need.
"Prayer" in the non-sectarian account is meant for personal reminding; that you recite a succession of chosen words to realize yourself in whereupon you say "amen" (be done so).
GOD on the other hand is in constant communion with you as long as you are not sealed off which happens that the majority of people are because their "Door" fades away while their helmet falls down over their eyes so they cannot see.
And the way you glorify GOD is by walking in its aura to be perfected. Only the good fruit will be harvested and saved. The bad will be discarded, and sadly it appears GOD's harvest will be meager. But GOD likes the best of the best for why should GOD "eat" rotten fruit?
The roots need to not be from this world.
Be well
I try to do both the aura thing and the meditative exercise thing, I consider the formal worship (pagan as it may be, since indeed the pagans did worship in a similar manner throughout history), a meditative practice which does have the benefit, at least in my case, of relaxing me and bringing back my focus and stuff, taking breaks throughout the day to do that seems to have some benefit for some people (it isn't for God, but for the individual to profit, God never profits from anything because to God belongs all wealth and all that jazz, and all jazz as well). God isn't very important to me in that sense, because God will always win, aka who cares about God. I'm concerned about my survival and comfort now that I've been created.
I want to make a picture thread in the trash, will you contribute? I heard you're fit.
I do lots of exercise and fun stuff, I am nice to people etc, but it isn't so much for external reactions as it is for loving being beautiful in conduct, I like seeing myself pretty, and everything I do is so that when I ask the mirror on the wall who the fairest one of all is, it is always me, and if it ever isn't, I try to get better and better.
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Meditation is good for as long as you do not turn it into ritualism in the sectarianistic sense. It has to retain its purpose and intention.
I learned "meditative mood state" (as I may call it) some years ago meaning I can begin a focused session wherever I am and I am always in a semi-meditative trance. This is possible when you can "separate the spirit from the flesh" and connect straight through your "Door".
I can generally sense when the body is going to make me act instinctively or when it overwhelmed my open "Door" that I lose control. The key is to be prepared and act proactively before you fail and nowadays I can save the moments when I would lose control in the past. Emotions are usually the worst triggering factor and those can be tough even for a skilled "spiritualist" to restrain. Anger is probably the hardest of them when you would think you have a valid reason to be angry your body more often than not deceived you.
This aspect is often nearly nonexistent in sectarian faith unfortunately despite that Quran beneath its sectarian interpretation speaks much of it.
If you were open minded towards the Biblical Gospels they can teach a thing or two about control, if you follow Jesus emotional detachment for when people mistreat you and you can still manage to turn the other cheek to someone who slapped you on the first one instead of a straight right fist. Jesus taught principles to bring with you in life to apply when possible, and the one who can apply them the most is successful.
It may sound like Buddhism, but the spiritual aspect of those teachings from there are those with best integrity from the prophets.
Islam teaches something entirely different and it is sad that a faith can be so corrupted. They teach it is okay to indulge in the physical creation. On that level I am not a Muslim anymore despite following the same scripture ironically.
Be well
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My intention is to make a full conversion so I am not only semi-meditative but fully absorbed, but it appears I am only close but not there. It is called Nirvana in Buddhism. There are many measures to take to achieve it and you have to staunchly make sure to follow every parameter of the so-called 'Ten Commandments' as well as abstaining from the body, which does not mean miserable living by nearly killing the body but only being in control rather than controlled. Jesus said "... while I am a glutton and a drunkard". It is the held control over matter that counts. A quick way is to get rid of all your love for possessions and the chemical reactions in your body.
Be well
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I fully agree with you. Great post. Something clicked in my head when I saw verse 343 today.
O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow with those who bow ."
I get a completely different meaning in the verse when I read it without the addition of . I am not able to grasp it though.Notice prostrate comes before bow. In traditional salaat, the opposite happens. Also it isn't possible to prostrate without bowing first. And also there is repetition of the bow in the line. He didn't do this for prostrate. Anyone care to interpret it?
O Mary, be dutiful for your Lord and submit/acknowledge/prostrate and yield/bow/incline/humble-yourself with those who yield/bow/incline/humble
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html
I agree with the message of the op.
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Peace,
Praise Allah for what He has guided us to.
AlhamduliAllahi Rabbil Aalameena hailI like it very much!
Thank you
PS
MoF, he explained that in the article, if someone's understanding is that there is no ritual so that's that person's responsibility and comprehension.Peace
Thank you.
And also would like to thank you for your reply to MoF.I fully agree with you.
Thank you.
I agree with the message of the op.
Thank you.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
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O Mary, be dutiful for your Lord and submit/acknowledge/prostrate and yield/bow/incline/humble-yourself with those who yield/bow/incline/humble
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html
Thanks Wakas for the priceless link.
This one I would take home
Being submissive / to honour / to pay respect could be said to be more universal concepts and tell us something about one's mindset, whilst conducting a "physical prostration" may or may not, as it is a superficial body-physical action. So one has to ask themselves what is God primarily concerned with is it a person's mindset or a physical act? Of course, God is primarily concerned with the deep and universal concept and not the superficial "physical prostration". We can empirically verify this ourselves by observing the fact that many people do "physical prostration" yet disobey God. So have they really done the "SuJuD" that is discussed in AQ?
Making superficial display is not what AQ is about, and this can clearly be seen in 2264, 438, 847, 1076 and other verses. It is commonly stated in Traditional Islam that one's intention is most important, and this shows that the inner outranks the outer, internal is more important than external. Outer/external display is secondary, not primary.Reel,
It is because neither of them words refer to prostration or bowing but was from playful medival sectarian interpreters who wished to insert their doctrine in an innocent text.
I suppose it was enforced from other religions like Judaism, but again, even that one ended up with innovations or downgrade.
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Being submissive / to honour / to pay respect could be said to be more universal concepts and tell us something about one's mindset, whilst conducting a "physical prostration" may or may not, as it is a superficial body-physical action. So one has to ask themselves what is God primarily concerned with is it a person's mindset or a physical act? Of course, God is primarily concerned with the deep and universal concept and not the superficial "physical prostration". We can empirically verify this ourselves by observing the fact that many people do "physical prostration" yet disobey God. So have they really done the "SuJuD" that is discussed in AQ?
Making superficial display is not what AQ is about, and this can clearly be seen in 2264, 438, 847, 1076 and other verses. It is commonly stated in Traditional Islam that one's intention is most important, and this shows that the inner outranks the outer, internal is more important than external. Outer/external display is secondary, not primary.
I suppose it was enforced from other religions like Judaism, but again, even that one ended up with innovations or downgrade.Peace,
Why do you feel the need to choose between the inner and outer prostration,
Physical in addition to mental prostration is better than either one alone.Peace,
To me religion is a fixed set of beliefs and practices.
Blessed Ramadhaan to you too.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanDefinition of Islam
noun Is?lam \is-l?m, iz-, -lam, is-, iz-\
the religion which teaches that there is only one God and that
Muhammad is God's prophet the religion of MuslimsEasy yes, unless you make your own definitions. nope
God bless
peace
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Salute @hawk99, all
Definition of Islam
noun Is?lam \is-l?m, iz-, -lam, is-, iz-\
the religion which teaches that there is only one God and that
Muhammad is God's prophet the religion of MuslimsEasy yes, unless you make your own definitions.
Where does one find such a definition in the Qurn!?
~ What's the qurnic word for "religion"?
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9/31, 14/52 33/40
What's the qurnic word for "religion" in these passages!?
Do you mean "Arabic" word for "religion"?
No!
By "the qurnic word for religion" I meant
The word G-D used in the Qurn to denote "religion"!Ps. In (post-qurnic) Arabic, the word for "religion" is diynah () Pl. diynt () !
SLM
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Why do you feel the need to choose between the inner and outer prostration,
Physical in addition to mental prostration is better than either one alone.Although from my experience I can say that in love for Allah bowing and prostrating happen naturally due to our mental conditioning the article points outIf we take the above as prostrations/prostrating (as some translations do), then this would clearly imply that no matter which direction the shadow faces it is STILL prostrating to/for God, i.e. God is everywhere, which links with "to God belongs the east and west so wherever you turn there is God's face/regard", see 2115. This strongly and clearly implies direction is irrelevant here.
Should I show Allah my rear end from the other direction by physically bowing and prostrating? I would think of it as little insulting. I have learned that my eyes shut down when I am reciting Quran verses to praise and worship him.
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Reel,
Whatever direction you face you show your rear towards GOD so it is no big deal.
Be well
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Reel,
Whatever direction you face you show your rear towards GOD so it is no big deal.
Be well
God also exists within all butt cracks and toilets and doesn't mind giving the similitude of a gnat or anything smaller.
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Freedomstands,
Do not say that to a sectarian Muslim. They will be upset. You cannot even say GOD's name in a toilet.
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Freedomstands,
Do not say that to a sectarian Muslim. They will be upset. You cannot even say GOD's name in a toilet.
Made me laugh imagining saying God's name into a toilet, even funnier if its an emergency exhale from a plumber at work. Yes, they often use the toilet as the reason for saying Allah is not everywhere, but then they say Allah's knowledge is everywhere, which somehow leaves Allah less sullied in their imagination. Of course they should consider, Allah is the creator of all that stuff, the whole system of pooping and poop itself, that doesn't mean poop is good for us but Allah is deep inside poop dealing with all the little bacteria inside and whatever else on this flat earth of ours.
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What's the qurnic word for "religion" in these passages!?
No!
By "the qurnic word for religion" I meant
The word G-D used in the Qurn to denote "religion"!Ps. In (post-qurnic) Arabic, the word for "religion" is diynah () Pl. diynt () !
SLM
Peace hicham9
In the passages (9/31,14/52, 33/40) refer to one God and Muhammad as his messenger.
as per the definition of IslamAlthough from my experience I can say that in love for Allah bowing and prostrating happen naturally due to our mental conditioning the article points outIf we take the above as prostrations/prostrating (as some translations do), then this would clearly imply that no matter which direction the shadow faces it is STILL prostrating to/for God, i.e. God is everywhere, which links with "to God belongs the east and west so wherever you turn there is God's face/regard", see 2115. This strongly and clearly implies direction is irrelevant here.
Peace reel, don't be fooled by such explanations, the facing is for
oneness and uniformity during congregational prayer.God bless
