:: Do tawakkal on Allah or be a mushrik ::
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I believe the reference to Ibrahim in this case has to do with the fact that he is the first prophet to believe in God as we are attempting to do. And believing as he believed is the truest source of pure submission without any cause to believe other than pure faith. Other prophets had his example to work on. But, the verse also refers specifically to Jews and Christians (people who consider themselves a part of a larger religious community and hold other prophets on similar footing with God). I believe you could insert any prophet in Abraham's place, as the prophets all answer directly to God and hold no other equal to Him. The religious community at-large though, unfortunately, hold those prophets interchangeably with God. Abraham is the human OG(original gangsta for you non-Californians) of our monotheistic belief system, so to speak, so his example is better than the other prophets though I still believe they are worthy of consideration. Using him in 2135 avoids any unnecessary ambiguity as to whether we should attach ourselves to cultures/movements associated with other prophets.
peace
Peace Bro,
even Abraham had to rely on his senses to end up believing in One God, cue his appraisal of the Universe to find God, when he looked at a Star, the Moon, then the Sun, arguing within a monologue that these must be God, then ending up concluding that they could not be because they set, then submitting per se.
In here we see that a development is taking place which is a parable onto what someone asking the right questions, and settling with the correct answers would do.
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Salamun alaikum.
When we say tawakkul on Allah it can mean at least two things
It can mean
- My parents and teachers have told me from my childhood that there is a deity who created us all and taking care of us all. The name of the deity is Allah. When I grew up a bit I read this book called Qur?an which is supposedly from the same deity ? Allah. The book tells me to rely (have tawakkul) on Allah ? so I have tawakkul on Allah for everything and I, for example, ?
a. Do not go to doctors for treatment.
b. Do not strive to have a decent living
c. Do not use my brain to think about the life and the world.
I have this firm belief that if I have twakkul on Allah, my diseases will auto cure, Allah will provide my livelihood and Allah will spare me from using my own brain and being misguided.
If above is the nature of our tawakkul ? such tawakkul is not on the deity (named Allah) ? such tawakkul is actually upon the parents OR teachers OR books who taught us about the deity. Rather than saving from shirk ? this is a more convenient way of getting into shirk.
However if it means
- Based on my understanding and study I have come to the conclusion that the One who gave me the life and is coninually sustaining me (hereafter refered to as God or Allah) ? must have given me all my requisite abilities to serve my intended purpose in this life of the world. So, if I strive with all my ability, intelligence and smartness to live the best possible life that Allah has intended for me - being fair and equitable to all other creations of Allah - utilizing the resources Allah has made available for me in responsible way? I have nothing to fear anyone, nor should I have any reason to grieve.
If above is the nature of tawakkul ? such tawakkul on Allah can be expected to save us from associating partners with Him.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman - My parents and teachers have told me from my childhood that there is a deity who created us all and taking care of us all. The name of the deity is Allah. When I grew up a bit I read this book called Qur?an which is supposedly from the same deity ? Allah. The book tells me to rely (have tawakkul) on Allah ? so I have tawakkul on Allah for everything and I, for example, ?
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Peace @Armanaziz
I agree with you and acknowledge you for what you wrote.
In Arabic the clerics make a distinction between your 1. which is tawaakul and 2. which is tawakkul.
.vs
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@ Armanaziz
Brilliantly put. As one of the stories my elders used to relate to me when I was young (just for teaching a lesson). Not sure where it originates from but nevertheless has a valuable lesson.
There was a person on a ship drowning at sea. The person prayed to God to be saved. Just when half the ship had gone down, a boat with a person on it appeared. The boat operator yelled for the person on the ship going down to jump onto the boat. The person refused saying "Allah will save me" but he drowned with the ship.
So the lesson here is that the person refused help that was sent by God and thus was ungrateful and so was not helped!
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@ Armanaziz
Brilliantly put. As one of the stories my elders used to relate to me when I was young (just for teaching a lesson). Not sure where it originates from but nevertheless has a valuable lesson.
There was a person on a ship drowning at sea. The person prayed to God to be saved. Just when half the ship had gone down, a boat with a person on it appeared. The boat operator yelled for the person on the ship going down to jump onto the boat. The person refused saying "Allah will save me" but he drowned with the ship.
So the lesson here is that the person refused help that was sent by God and thus was ungrateful and so was not helped!
Peace,
Your story does not go with the topic. Because the person in the ship relies on Allah and Allah send a boat to save him. Why do you think the boat came otherwise?
As per 2168 why do you think Ibrahim didn't use his Allah's given abilities and walk into the fire? Like he was given legs to run away, he was given intelligence to hide, he was given voice to shout and call for help, etc?
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace,
Your story does not go with the topic. Because the person in the ship relies on Allah and Allah send a boat to save him. Why do you think the boat came otherwise?
As per 2168 why do you think Ibrahim didn't use his Allah's given abilities and walk into the fire? Like he was given legs to run away, he was given intelligence to hide, he was given voice to shout and call for help, etc?
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanOK mmkhan, peace first...
then, next time if you are in the middle of a fire, stay still and rely on Allah to save you...
comparing miracles Allah performed as a Sign for Prophets and Messengers to influence communities towards Belief, to general causality is very unwise, and uneducated.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
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Salaam,
I know you dont find it relevant because you did not understand the story at all.
As for prophet Ibraheem (pbuh), he was especially chosen by God, as were other prophets. Prophet Isaa (pbuh) by God's permission cured the blind. If you think God will grant prophetic miracles to you...then peace, i have nothing more to say.
God does as He so pleases but He breaks not His word. The Quran is with us already, all the signs and miracles and why miracles were not given to the last prophet is clear to those of us who believe and understand.
Those miracles had God's will and other reasons, not purely because they were righteous but because the miracles were meant as proof of prophet/messengerhood.
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Salaam,
I know you dont find it relevant because you did not understand the story at all.
As for prophet Ibraheem (pbuh), he was especially chosen by God, as were other prophets. Prophet Isaa (pbuh) by God's permission cured the blind. If you think God will grant prophetic miracles to you...then peace, i have nothing more to say.
God does as He so pleases but He breaks not His word. The Quran is with us already, all the signs and miracles and why miracles were not given to the last prophet is clear to those of us who believe and understand.
Those miracles had God's will and other reasons, not purely because they were righteous but because the miracles were meant as proof of prophet/messengerhood.
Good answer!
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Salaam,
I know you dont find it relevant because you did not understand the story at all.
As for prophet Ibraheem (pbuh), he was especially chosen by God, as were other prophets. Prophet Isaa (pbuh) by God's permission cured the blind. If you think God will grant prophetic miracles to you...then peace, i have nothing more to say.
God does as He so pleases but He breaks not His word. The Quran is with us already, all the signs and miracles and why miracles were not given to the last prophet is clear to those of us who believe and understand.
Those miracles had God's will and other reasons, not purely because they were righteous but because the miracles were meant as proof of prophet/messengerhood.
Peace,
I noticed that you people are making messengers and prophets special. I know they are special but they are special because of their deeds and reached the positions of messengers and prophets. If you get closer and closer to Allah and try to get rid of even a tiny bad deed from your life, then there is no wonder that you will be among them, inshaAllah.
Please take a look at this and this. And if you still disagree then please take a look at this.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace,
I noticed that you people are making messengers and prophets special. I know they are special but they are special because of their deeds and reached the positions of messengers and prophets. If you get closer and closer to Allah and try to get rid of even a tiny bad deed from your life, then there is no wonder that you will be among them, inshaAllah.
Please take a look at this and this. And if you still disagree then please take a look at this.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanOh is that what happened? Isn't it that they weren't special at all, except that Allah chose them out of the people and made them special therefor?
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Oh is that what happened? Isn't it that they weren't special at all, except that Allah chose them out of the people and made them special therefor?
Peace brother,
Why you make partitions? A section of messengers and a section of prophets, then a believers, then comes kafir? Why bro?
We all are created same be it a rasool or a nabi. As we can upgrade our level from a normal insaan to a muttaqi and a believer. Further levels include rasool, nabi and imaam. Why you wanted to keep yourself backward in the sight of Allah?
Yes they have chosen but why? They have been chosen because of their work towards their Lord. Because they keep on adding good deeds into their lives. Is it that hard to understand?
Please tell me what you understand by 4913? Specially the highlighted part.
What does this mean to you?
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace brother,
Why you make partitions? A section of messengers and a section of prophets, then a believers, then comes kafir? Why bro?
We all are created same be it a rasool or a nabi. As we can upgrade our level from a normal insaan to a muttaqi and a believer. Further levels include rasool, nabi and imaam. Why you wanted to keep yourself backward in the sight of Allah?
Yes they have chosen but why? They have been chosen because of their work towards their Lord. Because they keep on adding good deeds into their lives. Is it that hard to understand?
Please tell me what you understand by 4913? Specially the highlighted part.
What does this mean to you?
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanSorry, but where did I make these partitions in the above quoted? I thought I said they weren't special but were chosen and made special (in the sense that not every single human being is chosen to give revelations from Allah and called Prophets and stuff).
I think it works just a little differently. Allah chooses the person first, then they do the good stuff. The Qur'an says that none of them would have done it had not Allah chosen it for them, and that none can even will it unless Allah wills it first.
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Salaam,
No. There is no set criteria to be chosen as a prophet or messenger or both. It is only that God does as God wills. There is no way anyone can say why God does as He pleases, unless it is divinely inspired to someone chosen by God in the first place.
God chose prophet Isaa (pbuh) and he spoke from the craddle (where are the deeds?). Prophet Musa (pbuh)'s mother was inspired that God will make him of the messengers (again, where are the deeds?).
After God chose them, they were still capable of making mistakes and giving into temptation (which would incur the wrath of God), but having been chosen by God and guided specially to achieve a certain purpose, they were able to avoid ill-deeds and thus were among the upright and righteous.
None of the above strived to become messengers and or prophets, except that God chose them with His Majesty's free and unquestionable will.
We make no distinction between the prophets and/or messengers, but we do recognize that they were chosen for reasons absolutely unknown to us.There are degrees of rank with God, but only God knows what and who they are awarded to. We do however know that disbelievers and wrongdoers/sinners are not part of this.
Striving to be chosen by God by taking certain actions is a sectarian concept, as they profess to know how God selects which is a lie against God. No one knows who or how or why God chooses an x,y,z individual or a group of people. Remember the sectarian concept? that all prophets including Muhammad (pbuh) were perfect in character which led to their being selected as prophets and/or messengers? This is speaking about God without knowledge.
These people were ordinary human beings like us, they were made special when God chose them. As to why God chose them, only God knows.
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As per 2168 why do you think Ibrahim didn't use his Allah's given abilities and walk into the fire? Like he was given legs to run away, he was given intelligence to hide, he was given voice to shout and call for help, etc?
Salam brother.
With due respect ? your conclusion that Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) did not use his ability to try to avoid the fire is an unwarranted conclusion from verse 2168. Somehow you got the impression that the prophet sort of happily jumped into fire ? for which I see no Quranic support. Rather, from the story it is fairly clear that the prophet?s community forced to put him in fire as a punishment. If someone is thrown into fire by his community ? there is very little one can do to help himself.
Yes, the prophet DID NOT apologize to his community or beg for his life / forgiveness to them. That is because he had tawakkal upon Allah that - as long as he didn?t do anything wrong he had nothing to fear, nor to grieve. This is the type 2 tawakkal that I referred in my earlier post.
On a comparative note, when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) anticipated that his life is in danger in Mecca, he did leave Mecca and did hide in a cave on the way to avoid the Meccans. He was trying his best to avoid the capture using his God gifted abilities, and God did help him escape. There is no reason to believe if Prophet Ibrahim had a chance he would not try to flee from his people as well. In fact, he and his nephew Lot did eventually migrate away from the wrongdoing people (Ref 2171).
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salaam,
No. There is no set criteria to be chosen as a prophet or messenger or both. It is only that God does as God wills. There is no way anyone can say why God does as He pleases, unless it is divinely inspired to someone chosen by God in the first place.
God chose prophet Isaa (pbuh) and he spoke from the craddle (where are the deeds?). Prophet Musa (pbuh)'s mother was inspired that God will make him of the messengers (again, where are the deeds?).
After God chose them, they were still capable of making mistakes and giving into temptation (which would incur the wrath of God), but having been chosen by God and guided specially to achieve a certain purpose, they were able to avoid ill-deeds and thus were among the upright and righteous.
None of the above strived to become messengers and or prophets, except that God chose them with His Majesty's free and unquestionable will.
We make no distinction between the prophets and/or messengers, but we do recognize that they were chosen for reasons absolutely unknown to us.There are degrees of rank with God, but only God knows what and who they are awarded to. We do however know that disbelievers and wrongdoers/sinners are not part of this.
Striving to be chosen by God by taking certain actions is a sectarian concept, as they profess to know how God selects which is a lie against God. No one knows who or how or why God chooses an x,y,z individual or a group of people. Remember the sectarian concept? that all prophets including Muhammad (pbuh) were perfect in character which led to their being selected as prophets and/or messengers? This is speaking about God without knowledge.
These people were ordinary human beings like us, they were made special when God chose them. As to why God chose them, only God knows.
This is proper Islam. Finally we see a proper Muslim on this website. Notice the similarity in what was said here to what I say too.
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Prophets grow into their role, including Jesus and he was also tested.
That they were prospective prophets may have been decided already before they were born and signs of prophethood displayed to them during their early part of their life, if they are part of a prophecy.
Aaron/Harun was chosen prophet because Moses begged for help, but his brother was surely a good man already before.
Maryam was chosen to be the mother of Jesus due to her abstention from the world and righteous living. She had to live her life first to see that she was the person so it was not predestined.
It may depend a little on whether we believe reincarnation to be a true concept or not. Then it can explain why a young boy or girl is growing to become a prophet. The Rabb then simply knew the soul would be a good choice.
That is ruled out for those who think the future is already written though which I do not think due to that this life would be quite redundant if the Rabb already knew the outcome.
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Prophets grow into their role, including Jesus and he was also tested.
That they were prospective prophets may have been decided already before they were born and signs of prophethood displayed to them during their early part of their life, if they are part of a prophecy.
Aaron/Harun was chosen prophet because Moses begged for help, but his brother was surely a good man already before.
Maryam was chosen to be the mother of Jesus due to her abstention from the world and righteous living. She had to live her life first to see that she was the person so it was not predestined.
It may depend a little on whether we believe reincarnation to be a true concept or not. Then it can explain why a young boy or girl is growing to become a prophet. The Rabb then simply knew the soul would be a good choice.
That is ruled out for those who think the future is already written though which I do not think due to that this life would be quite redundant if the Rabb already knew the outcome.
I have just a slight alteration on the view which is actually something which you have said as well, in that I believe it is current but symbiotic. That is, Allah is the sole actor (which you haven't said) but that Allah is actively creating all these things (not left to any other system/dynamic like "chance" which would have to be programmed as well). So like a person saying One with Allah, I think that is already the state of things, that everything in existence is under the same power, that the will of two enemies facing themselves in battle is the will of Allah in both of them, and the results are also what Allah determines, so that it can be said there is only One, only One "person" and One "thing" in existence. This concept can be known as Atman in Hinduism and in Gnosticism as Adam Kadmon the Universal Single Being and exists in Monism, Pantheism, Panentheism.
So when a person gets up to stand, that is the will of Allah, and when another person lays down to rest, that is the will of Allah, in my view anyway, the point being that Allah is actively and symbiotically "within" and fully incorporated in all those beings already, even if they don't acknowledge it.
So All in God and God in All. All for One and One for All.
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Freedomstands,
You are basically right except for one thing. Allah is not an entity at all and not even a noun but could be regarded as an adverb perhaps.
It is the Rabb (Sustaining Foundation) that executes every initiative that you take, and could prevent it should that Rabb also will, because that Rabb is like the electricity provider to your circuit and can control it.
But there are two sides of the coin. One side is the connection and reality with the Rabb and the other side is a projected reality called something like "contradiction" by the Rabb. This "projected reality" was made to test that species of Adam to create some sort of super-race as far as it seems. Those who can grow into perfect beings fit enough to be rulers. The purpose you have to ask the Rabb for. But as far as I am concerned it is simply to filter out the garbage and expose the defect products.
Be well
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Freedomstands,
You are basically right except for one thing. Allah is not an entity at all and not even a noun but could be regarded as an adverb perhaps.
It is the Rabb (Sustaining Foundation) that executes every initiative that you take, and could prevent it should that Rabb also will, because that Rabb is like the electricity provider to your circuit and can control it.
But there are two sides of the coin. One side is the connection and reality with the Rabb and the other side is a projected reality called something like "contradiction" by the Rabb. This "projected reality" was made to test that species of Adam to create some sort of super-race as far as it seems. Those who can grow into perfect beings fit enough to be rulers. The purpose you have to ask the Rabb for. But as far as I am concerned it is simply to filter out the garbage and expose the defect products.
Be well
Oh yeah, I agree with that, I don't really imagine God as a person or a being really in the sense that we know when we refer to each other as persons or beings. I generally hesitate to ever refer to God in that way, but for the sake of people who do imagine God in such a way, I like to say there is only one person ultimately, and that we're always dealing with the same one. That is why I also imagine it is pointless to run away from people or exchange some people for another, since if its some issue we might have to learn with or is used to test or filter us we might face it again and again no matter who it is. Even when I hear people speak, to me I pay careful attention actually because I'm trying to hear what is being said to me from God, what hints there might be, even in everything I see.
Even the mainstream version calls the humans viceroys and indicates a filtering process is going on where people vie one with another in goodness and in being the most noble of all, that the humans left are going to be the rulers of the Earth whereas the rest exist in hell. Whatever the case is though, I try to behave in the most gracious and beneficent manner, like a good king, which I mentioned in some other posts to be noble and dignified and gracious and gift bearing and whatever else.
Now I have to clean my little Kingdom of an apartment a bit, my domain, where I let giant spiders wander freely.
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Salam,
I always get an alarm bell when I smell a whiff of pantheism, which is in fact shirk, and forbidden by Allah and that is this statement
So All in God and God in All.
but this statement seem to be OK in my view
All for One and One for All.
We are spirits from God, but we certainly are not in Him, and even less so, Him in us, but he is closer to us than the intersection of our jugular vein and our heart (habl alwarid in Arabic)