:: Do tawakkal on Allah or be a mushrik ::
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Salaam,
No. There is no set criteria to be chosen as a prophet or messenger or both. It is only that God does as God wills. There is no way anyone can say why God does as He pleases, unless it is divinely inspired to someone chosen by God in the first place.
God chose prophet Isaa (pbuh) and he spoke from the craddle (where are the deeds?). Prophet Musa (pbuh)'s mother was inspired that God will make him of the messengers (again, where are the deeds?).
After God chose them, they were still capable of making mistakes and giving into temptation (which would incur the wrath of God), but having been chosen by God and guided specially to achieve a certain purpose, they were able to avoid ill-deeds and thus were among the upright and righteous.
None of the above strived to become messengers and or prophets, except that God chose them with His Majesty's free and unquestionable will.
We make no distinction between the prophets and/or messengers, but we do recognize that they were chosen for reasons absolutely unknown to us.There are degrees of rank with God, but only God knows what and who they are awarded to. We do however know that disbelievers and wrongdoers/sinners are not part of this.
Striving to be chosen by God by taking certain actions is a sectarian concept, as they profess to know how God selects which is a lie against God. No one knows who or how or why God chooses an x,y,z individual or a group of people. Remember the sectarian concept? that all prophets including Muhammad (pbuh) were perfect in character which led to their being selected as prophets and/or messengers? This is speaking about God without knowledge.
These people were ordinary human beings like us, they were made special when God chose them. As to why God chose them, only God knows.
This is proper Islam. Finally we see a proper Muslim on this website. Notice the similarity in what was said here to what I say too.
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Prophets grow into their role, including Jesus and he was also tested.
That they were prospective prophets may have been decided already before they were born and signs of prophethood displayed to them during their early part of their life, if they are part of a prophecy.
Aaron/Harun was chosen prophet because Moses begged for help, but his brother was surely a good man already before.
Maryam was chosen to be the mother of Jesus due to her abstention from the world and righteous living. She had to live her life first to see that she was the person so it was not predestined.
It may depend a little on whether we believe reincarnation to be a true concept or not. Then it can explain why a young boy or girl is growing to become a prophet. The Rabb then simply knew the soul would be a good choice.
That is ruled out for those who think the future is already written though which I do not think due to that this life would be quite redundant if the Rabb already knew the outcome.
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Prophets grow into their role, including Jesus and he was also tested.
That they were prospective prophets may have been decided already before they were born and signs of prophethood displayed to them during their early part of their life, if they are part of a prophecy.
Aaron/Harun was chosen prophet because Moses begged for help, but his brother was surely a good man already before.
Maryam was chosen to be the mother of Jesus due to her abstention from the world and righteous living. She had to live her life first to see that she was the person so it was not predestined.
It may depend a little on whether we believe reincarnation to be a true concept or not. Then it can explain why a young boy or girl is growing to become a prophet. The Rabb then simply knew the soul would be a good choice.
That is ruled out for those who think the future is already written though which I do not think due to that this life would be quite redundant if the Rabb already knew the outcome.
I have just a slight alteration on the view which is actually something which you have said as well, in that I believe it is current but symbiotic. That is, Allah is the sole actor (which you haven't said) but that Allah is actively creating all these things (not left to any other system/dynamic like "chance" which would have to be programmed as well). So like a person saying One with Allah, I think that is already the state of things, that everything in existence is under the same power, that the will of two enemies facing themselves in battle is the will of Allah in both of them, and the results are also what Allah determines, so that it can be said there is only One, only One "person" and One "thing" in existence. This concept can be known as Atman in Hinduism and in Gnosticism as Adam Kadmon the Universal Single Being and exists in Monism, Pantheism, Panentheism.
So when a person gets up to stand, that is the will of Allah, and when another person lays down to rest, that is the will of Allah, in my view anyway, the point being that Allah is actively and symbiotically "within" and fully incorporated in all those beings already, even if they don't acknowledge it.
So All in God and God in All. All for One and One for All.
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Freedomstands,
You are basically right except for one thing. Allah is not an entity at all and not even a noun but could be regarded as an adverb perhaps.
It is the Rabb (Sustaining Foundation) that executes every initiative that you take, and could prevent it should that Rabb also will, because that Rabb is like the electricity provider to your circuit and can control it.
But there are two sides of the coin. One side is the connection and reality with the Rabb and the other side is a projected reality called something like "contradiction" by the Rabb. This "projected reality" was made to test that species of Adam to create some sort of super-race as far as it seems. Those who can grow into perfect beings fit enough to be rulers. The purpose you have to ask the Rabb for. But as far as I am concerned it is simply to filter out the garbage and expose the defect products.
Be well
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Freedomstands,
You are basically right except for one thing. Allah is not an entity at all and not even a noun but could be regarded as an adverb perhaps.
It is the Rabb (Sustaining Foundation) that executes every initiative that you take, and could prevent it should that Rabb also will, because that Rabb is like the electricity provider to your circuit and can control it.
But there are two sides of the coin. One side is the connection and reality with the Rabb and the other side is a projected reality called something like "contradiction" by the Rabb. This "projected reality" was made to test that species of Adam to create some sort of super-race as far as it seems. Those who can grow into perfect beings fit enough to be rulers. The purpose you have to ask the Rabb for. But as far as I am concerned it is simply to filter out the garbage and expose the defect products.
Be well
Oh yeah, I agree with that, I don't really imagine God as a person or a being really in the sense that we know when we refer to each other as persons or beings. I generally hesitate to ever refer to God in that way, but for the sake of people who do imagine God in such a way, I like to say there is only one person ultimately, and that we're always dealing with the same one. That is why I also imagine it is pointless to run away from people or exchange some people for another, since if its some issue we might have to learn with or is used to test or filter us we might face it again and again no matter who it is. Even when I hear people speak, to me I pay careful attention actually because I'm trying to hear what is being said to me from God, what hints there might be, even in everything I see.
Even the mainstream version calls the humans viceroys and indicates a filtering process is going on where people vie one with another in goodness and in being the most noble of all, that the humans left are going to be the rulers of the Earth whereas the rest exist in hell. Whatever the case is though, I try to behave in the most gracious and beneficent manner, like a good king, which I mentioned in some other posts to be noble and dignified and gracious and gift bearing and whatever else.
Now I have to clean my little Kingdom of an apartment a bit, my domain, where I let giant spiders wander freely.
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Salam,
I always get an alarm bell when I smell a whiff of pantheism, which is in fact shirk, and forbidden by Allah and that is this statement
So All in God and God in All.
but this statement seem to be OK in my view
All for One and One for All.
We are spirits from God, but we certainly are not in Him, and even less so, Him in us, but he is closer to us than the intersection of our jugular vein and our heart (habl alwarid in Arabic)
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Salam,
I always get an alarm bell when I smell a whiff of pantheism, which is in fact shirk, and forbidden by Allah and that is this statement
So All in God and God in All.
but this statement seem to be OK in my view
All for One and One for All.
We are spirits from God, but we certainly are not in Him, and even less so, Him in us, but he is closer to us than the intersection of our jugular vein and our heart (habl alwarid in Arabic)
Yeah, the way people usually talk about pantheism is totally shirk for the most part, which is why I tend to prefer panentheism (pan-en-theism) though all the ways the people talk about each thing is twisted anyway so you'll not find that great of stuff anywhere.
pan en theism is the one where everything is encompassed by God or within God, and pantheism is the one where everything is God, which in my case I only mean that God is controlling absolutely everything and we exist within and dependent upon God, not that a rock is encompassing God or is God or anything like that.
Ah, screw it though. Really throwing people into a pool of acid would be a better description of my understanding.
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When one has limited understanding of something, the wiser course is to remain silent
One does not always feel obligated to fill gaps laugh
Are you suggesting I have a limited understanding of Allah and the terms pantheism, panentheism, monism, monotheism, henotheism, or any particular combination of those words and concepts?
I think Allah is easy enough to understand as a concept. Allah is like nothing, not made of any information, so can not be experienced in any form (only information can be experienced), and Allah is what generates information (whatever at all is experienced).
What do you think of this? http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607171.msg362129#msg362129
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Peace
To be honest, I have always steered clear of defining the essence of Allah, as I don't want to speak about that which I can't understand.
The problem with me is that I think it is kind of important to know what it is that we are worshiping, otherwise there are many people who just take a word or a name and believe in it but with no clear idea of what they are directing their worship to. I really think the concept is an important thing to grasp, but it might not be important.
I feel one shouldn't do anything unless they understand why they are doing it and all about it. That is why I would recommend to people who are confused regarding religion to abstain until they properly understand what it is they are doing and why. If they don't even know what they are doing, their intentions might be skewed, not sure how much it counts if a person is just blindly doing things (not suggesting you're blindly doing things, I'm just saying in general).
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Peace @FreedomStands
Allah makes Himself known to us through His Attributes, which are Meaningful and Represent His Qualities.
As for His Essence, the 112th Sura of the Quran clearly states that we cannot apprehend Him on this side, so no use, or better not advisable to try, remember the passage of Moses asking Allah to show Himself to Him, how it ended for a poor mountain.
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Salute @theNabster
Allah makes Himself known to us through His Attributes, which are Meaningful and Represent His Qualities.
G-D is known to us through His Signs.
As for His Essence, the 112th Sura of the Quran clearly states that we cannot apprehend Him on this side, so no use, or better not advisable to try, remember the passage of Moses asking Allah to show Himself to Him, how it ended for a poor mountain.
To my knowledge, The Divine is inherently ONE.
Ergo, to me, G-D's "Essence" and Attributes are one and the same.Meaning The Unique/Singular G-D is essentially United in Attributes.
Hence, G-D using both Sing. and Pl. forms for His Absoluteness (in the Quran).This is my current understanding, our Master knows best.
SLM
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Asma'a al husnah,
the Rightful Labels/Names/Attributes.
Lillahi Al Asma'a al husnah...To realize/understand "What is G-D?"
An Adamite ought to know his/her place.~ It's very simple
G-D is Powerful = I'm weak
G-D is Eternal = I'm transient
G-D is Independent = I'm dependent
G-D is Knowledgeable = I'm ignorant
... and the list goes on and on (and on)Signs are of His Creation.
Did I say otherwise!?
SLM
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Peace,
Stop covering your misconceptions with static noise LOL!,
Allah is different from His Signs, Allah has Names/Attributes He likes to be called with, some of them you just cited.
His Signs examples are our languages, skin colour, the Skies, the Stars, the Moon, the Sun, the Oceans, Angels, and many of the things He created, including each and every ayat in the Quran, the Quran, and other Books He revealed, etc.
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Stop covering your misconceptions with static noise ) LOL!,
Allah is different from His Signs, Allah has Names/Attributes He likes to be called with, some of them you just cited.
Where did I ever say that G-D and His Signs are one and the same!?
You're the one who's trying to cover his misconception/s with static noise!
~ How unfortunate ...
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Depending on how you see it Pantheism is not "shirk" since you acknowledge that to exist you have to exist with the Rabb. And the mainstream faith is more "shirk" in that case being a duality.
In how it works you give absolutely no credit at all to yourself because you exist with the Rabb as the ultimate "platform". I have a hard time understanding how one can make that idolatry. What is idolatry anyway? A sectarian invention based on flawed understanding.
Even worship of that Allah is idolatry/shirk because automatically when you do it you made a separation and caused duality to emerge.
Where do you think this energy/light which constitutes your body and the world stems from? The Rabb!
The world/universe keeps its integrity due to the Rabb.
How is that not pantheism?
Your soul exists with the Rabb as a prerequisite and without the Rabb it has no sustainability. Yet the Rabb here is the background platform.
No matter how you twist or turn it you are part of that Rabb. And that Rabb has ultimate control over you because the Rabb is in control of every atom.
I have wondered why this concept is "shirk" for people. Intelligent people who call it that. It is not like you have any real say if that "mainframe" is about to execute a will anyway since it has absolute control. It is only that right now the system is running like an illusion that people believe they have any control because the Rabb is "fooling people" depending on how you see it to be able to sift out the bad people who have no proficiency to be anything on a higher mental level.
Be well
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so don't expect me to be polite in return
That is the absolutely wrong thinking. Think the other way.
This thinking is exactly the reason why people will not succeed the test. Trust me. Or trust me not because that is probably what you are going to do.
Be well