Messengers?

Peace

Peace,
I just wanted to know if anyone has read about a penalty(in the Quran) for believing that someone is a messenger if their message is simply to use the Quran as a guide and follow God alone (if in reality they turn out to not be a real messenger). For instance, what if a person X comes to me and says "I am a messenger of God, use the Quran as a sole source of guidance, and Believe in one God", and in reality they are not really a messenger of God. What happens if I believe them to be a messenger? Is there anything in the Quran that deals with this? I always read verses about people NOT believing in a messenger, but I've never seen verses dealing with the opposite Scenario (that is, believing in a messenger, who's message is correct, but who turns out to not be a messenger.) Perhaps, this can help us better understand what a messenger is, and what their duties are.

Peaace

zenje

Peace,

For instance, what if a person X comes to me and says "I am a messenger of God, use the Quran as a sole source of guidance, and Believe in one God", and in reality they are not really a messenger of God. What happens if I believe them to be a messenger?

From what this person has asked you to do, I see no problem whether this person has a 'messenger' title or not. And the point is to believe the message anf follow God alone, whether you 'believe' the person is a bonafide messenger or not, is of little consequence. After all...

The messenger is only to deliver. And God knows what you reveal and what you conceal.(599)

And We have not sent you except as a bearer of good news and a warner.
Say ?I do not ask you for a wage; but for whoever chooses to make a path to his Lord.?

asdfjk

Salaams Peace

i started typing a long reply - its still below as I think it holds some water - but that helped me come to an understanding which inshallah will be of some use.

In brief it comes down to a question of how you treat their messengership. Like person X comes and says - Obey god, follow quran. Well I do obey God and follow quran - but say I reject their messengership - what difference does it make.... what else is it that I'm supposed to sign up to that this new messenger is bringing? And if there is nothing else then why the new messenger.... do you get my train of thought - I think your scenario is a half-truth - as new messengers are always, even if unwittingly, adding their own 'messengerhood' to the mix. You cant have a new messenger and just leave all else unchanged....

peace
asdjk

Heres the longer version of this post - with ayats to support the development of the position.

good questions... at first I thought it would be covered by (7.33)

Say "My Lord has forbidden all lewd action, what is obvious from them and what is subtle, and sin, and aggression without cause, and that you set up partners with God that which He has never authorized, and that you say about God what you do not know."

Since a false messanger is saying something they do not know then they would be acting against (7.33) But your question was about what would happen to someone who followed such a messanger?

We know from quran that on the day of judgement those who were misled will be abandoned by those ones who did the misleading - for example 28.63 where we read

Those who have deserved the retribution will Say "Our Lord, these are the ones we misled; we misled them only because we ourselves were misled. We seek to absolve ourselves to You, it was not us that they worshipped."

but your specific scenario is interesting as the call to obey one God and take quran as your sole source of guidance is coherent with al-quran. And I think herein is the answer to your question.

What you are proposing is a false scenario since why would Allah send any messenger to simply repeat what the seal of the prophets (33.40) has already said? We know that to every nation a warner is sent but (136-137) reads

And they hasten towards you with sin before good, and the examples of those before them have already been given. Your Lord is with great forgiveness to mankind for their transgression, and your Lord is severe in retribution.
And those who reject Say "If only a sign was sent down to him from his Lord." You are but a warner, and to every nation is a guide.

Since Allah has already sent the prophet muhammad as a guide to every nation why would he send another prophet... unless they had some new information to impart?

In the end it comes down to how you act on your belief that they are a messanger. If we look at your scenario and you accept this false messanger and I do not how do we differ in our behaviour? Well if you take your messanger to be your guide......and I do not..... yet we still believe in the same thing. I feel there is something missing from this scenario - ie the messengers messengerhood.,,

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

A messenger is one who brings guidance to one who does not have it, not a book called "Koran". A messenger brings a truthful statement/reading(quran). If you hear and obey that truthful reading, then you AUTOMATICALLY have trust in the messenger, and since ALL messengers come with the same message, you automaticaly have trust in ALL messengers.

Remember! The God told you about some messengers and did not tell you about others, so how can you maintain trust(faith) in the messengers when you don't know them all? Simple, you trust the truth and that makes you AUTOMATICALLY have trust/faith in the messengers.

We MUST stop thinking about Prophets and MEssengers as superheros, these are levels that all humans can attain if they strive and keep the right focus, hear and obey.

Grourself

Peace,

See 1245 "...send me". The word or verb ra-sa-la is simply send. It's not a super hero word Idol is on point. This word must be qualified such as "messenger of God".

Peace

Peace zenje,
lol, don't worry no one really asked me to believe they were a messenger, just a hypothetical situation. You're right though the sole job of a messenger is to deliver the message, but what I want to try and understand is how does someone get the title of being a messenger from God? does it mean that God speaks to them directly or inspires them? How did any of the Messengers know that they were messengers unless God told them that was the case?

Peace asdjk,
Yea I think it all comes down to the message that they bring. You wouldn't believe someone was a messenger if they brought a corrupted message. But perhaps you can help me with the questions that I've asked Zenje. Also, do you believe a messenger has to bring something new to the table in order to be such?In the Quran, when Moses brings Pharoah the truth I believe that there is another believer who concealed his faith but already knew the truth, when he speaks out to his people does he then become a messenger? (lol sorry about the confusing sentences, probably going to have to read it a couple times).

Peace Mehdi,
Hmm, that verse does deal with those who claim to be Messengers but in reality aren't, but it doesn't seem to deal with those who believe them to be messengers. However, this part of the verse does help me with some of my other questions.
693. Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against Allah, or saith, "I have received inspiration," when he hath received none,

So I take it that a messenger is told that he/she (?) is a messenger by God, or is inspired in some way.

Peace Idolfree,
Yes this makes sense to me. If you believe in the truth, then you will automatically believe in any messengers. However, what about the person that concealed his faith until moses spoke out to pharoah(see my response to asdjk)? Was he labeled as a messenger in the Quran, he did end up telling people about the message? Also, is anyone who brings you the truth a messenger? What if a terrible person brings me the truth about something, does that make him a messenger? Another thing that I'd like to look at is the story of Muhummad. The Quran was revealed to him in stages, therefore, the people probably only received a couple of verses at a time. If I heard a couple of verses at first and believed them to be the truth then I would believe Muhummad to be a messenger. Now I haven't heard all of the Quran yet as it supposedly took 23 years to compile (that could be questionable of course). Now what if a verse came commanding believers to fight? In order to follow this command I'd have to already believe that Muhummad is a messenger, and in order to believe Muhummad was a messenger I'd have to have believed in those verses that he's brought. Therefore, I would say to myself "well he brought the truth before, so to fight must be the truth because I have already established that he is a messenger". But is fighting on its own a new truth that will lead me to believe in the messenger? I would say that it isn't, and I would have to have already believed in the messenger, in order to believe this command.

Welll I have no idea what I was getting at, loll, I just managed to confuse myself, but anyway if you make anything out of it plz let me know.

asdfjk

do you believe a messenger has to bring something new to the table in order to be such?In the Quran, when Moses brings Pharoah the truth I believe that there is another believer who concealed his faith but already knew the truth, when he speaks out to his people does he then become a messenger?

Salaam Peace

thats the crux of it for me - since all messengers are delivering the same essential message then the need to bring something 'new' to the table cannot be a prerequisite. But if you accept someone's claim to be a messenger than you are including as part of your understanding of the deen of Allah that He has sanctioned a new messenger to come forth. Even tho the message doesnt change that will inevitably effect how you think of Allah and his relationship to His creation.

Like idolfree I don't believe that messengers are superheroes - but they are special since God sends them. Which is why I'm cagey on claims to messengership. I must say for me M.Mehdi's posting of (6.93) makes it all really clear. Praise God for guidance

peace
asdfjk