DO AYATS 5:5 AND 6:146, PRECLUDE THE PIG AS BEING HARAM...?
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Peace,
My challenge Quote just one verse for me from the Quran that says that horses, deers, camels, etc. are prohibited.
Your challenge is going against the system of the Quran. The Quran is prohibiting regarding the 4 allowed kinds of animals. So God allowed these 4 animals and placed some exceptions. The rest is not allowed in the first place.
Peace,
Rami
If you are truthful, then I think that you should not have anything against answering my challenge.
Besides, what was the "They shouldn't live in the arctic in the first place" when you were referring to people who live in the Arctic all about?
"Among His proofs are the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colors. In these, there are signs for the knowledgeable." (3022)
"O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant."
(4913) -
I will post the folliwing verses again
When they are told, "Follow what GOD has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?
The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.
O you who believe, eat from the good things we provided for you, and be thankful to GOD, if you do worship Him ALONE.
He ONLY prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Those who conceal GOD's revelations in the scripture, in exchange for a cheap material gain, eat but fire into their bellies. GOD will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them. They have incurred a painful retribution.
Do you think that there it is a coincidcence that these verses are in this specific order? First God say that people shoould follow the Quran, but the rejectors follow what their parents were doing. Second People who follow what they hear without knowledge, or how God puts it "like parrots". Third God gives us the ONLY dietary prohibitions. Fourth God goes back to speak about the people who reject the Quran (and ultimately its only dietary prohibitions).
NOTE Genuine believers will uphold the dietary prohibitions of God ALONE, and will not seek ANY other source besides the Quran. It counts as IDOLATRY to do so.
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Peace,
If you are truthful, then I think that you should not have anything against answering my challenge.
I answered your challenge.
Besides, what was the "They shouldn't live in the arctic in the first place" when you were referring to people who live in the Arctic all about?
The Arctic is not a normal human habitat.
"Among His proofs are the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colors. In these, there are signs for the knowledgeable." (3022)
"O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant."
(4913)It doesn't talk about geographical locations.
When they are told, "Follow what GOD has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?
What parents? D My parents are totally oblivious to this. That is the new age buddy.
The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.
Talking about the pagans who are prohibiting what they want regarding the 4 kinds of livestock.
He ONLY prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
No dead cow, sheep, goat or camel nor their blood.
Those who conceal GOD's revelations in the scripture, in exchange for a cheap material gain, eat but fire into their bellies. GOD will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them. They have incurred a painful retribution.
Not talking about us unless I work in the Cattle Industry. ;D
NOTE Genuine believers will uphold the dietary prohibitions of God ALONE, and will not seek ANY other source besides the Quran. It counts as IDOLATRY to do so.
It is also idolatry to eat what is forbidden. The system outlined is based on the Quran ALONE.
But seriously, if you want high quality livestock just visit our website at www.RamiPaganFarms.com ;D
Chicken gives you diarrhoea and herpes.
Peace,
Rami
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@ Rami
If you want to tell me this nonsense, then fine.
FYI YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY CHALLENGE.. My challenge Quote just one verse for me from the Quran that says that horses, deers, camels, etc. are prohibited.Your claim that He ONLY prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful. tells us that chicken is haram (which btw is idolatry and not even the sunnis and shias say that it is haram) is complete NONSENSE because chicken is not even mentioned as haram in the quran.
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salamun alaykum,
there is no compulsion to believe, adopt or follow any understanding/comprehension. different person are attained different levels of understanding/comprehension, therefore there shouldn't be a fight on whether one has gotten the correct/perfect understanding/comprehension or otherwise. 'lakum deenukum waliyyadeen' indeed. yes, believers or otherwise, since it is common to discover that some believers in God and the last day do not believe in many things even though they are the basic/fundamental responsibility/accountability of being a muslim as contained in the qur'an.
so, don't argue or fight please. God doesn't like it. when you have earned His wrath, He might appoint a 'shaitan' (as 'qarin' to mislead you, or punish you accordingly and lead you towards the fire - that angst/anxiousness/disquietude/distress/nervousness/unease/uneasiness/worry in you will be compounded over time.
please go easy, and lets look at the following verse
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Hurrimat AAalaykumu almaytatu waalddamu walahmu alkhinzeeri wama ohilla lighayri Allahi bihi waalmunkhaniqatu waalmawqoothatu waalmutaraddiyatu waalnnateehatu wama akala alssabuAAu illa ma thakkaytum wama thubiha AAala alnnusubi waan tastaqsimoo bial-azlami thalikum fisqun alyawma ya-isa allatheena kafaroo min deenikum fala takhshawhum waikhshawni alyawma akmaltu lakum deenakum waatmamtu AAalaykum niAAmatee waradeetu lakumu al-islama deenan famani idturra fee makhmasatin ghayra mutajanifin li-ithmin fa-inna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun
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Forbidden for you are the dead, blood, the flesh of pig, and what was intended for other than God, and the fatally choked, fatally ill, those that suffer fatal falls, those hurt in fatal fights, and what predatory animals have devoured, unless it is not distasteful to you, while whatever was slaughtered for idols, and whatever you (pl.) distribute by lottery is immoral for you (pl.). Today/now He renounced those who have disbelieved in your (pl.) responsibility/accountability. So, don?t you (pl.) fear them when you fear Me today/now that I have perfected/completed your responsibility/accountability. And I have perfected/completed My comfort/ease/favor for you, as I am satisfied/pleased that as far as you are concerned Islam/self-surrender/self-submission is the responsibility/accountability. But, whoever is forced by hunger, without an inclination to sin/offend/go over the limit, then God is compassionately forgiving.
notes;
- 'almaytatu'/'the dead' refers to animals that nobody knew the reasons for their death. (e.g. even fishermen do not eat fish that they find already dead in the water (or floating). but they eat those that they found already dead in their nets since they know the reason for their death.)
- 'illa ma thakkaytum'/'unless it is not distasteful to you' are only regarding animals that we know are suffering from fatal choking (suffocating due to smoke, water, rope, etc.), illness, falls, fights or devoured by predatory animals. when it is distasteful to you, then it is forbidden for you. otherwise, it is allowed to be consumed.
so the forbidden are
• the dead of unknown cause of death;
• the blood;
• the flesh of pigs or whatever you take 'lahmu alkhinzeeri' to be;
• those slaughtered for other than God, e.g. for other deities, for a specific purpose. in other words, this refers to the killing of animals for other reason than the idea or awareness that it is good food provided or allowed by God;
• those animals you know the causes of their death (as mentioned in the above verse) but you find them distasteful or repulsive to eat.
• those distributed/earned by lottery/chance/game of chance/lucky draw/raffle/sweepstake;
but of course there is the s.o.p. - an 'exit clause' i.e. when 'forced by hunger, without an inclination to sin/offend/go over the limit'.
no one should agree or disagree in my personal comprehension. please get your answers from God. never ever contemplate to leave God out of your search for the truth. have your full respect for Him as the teacher. we know nothing without His leave. thus take Him as your confidant and reference.
may God guide us on the straight/correct/honorable path. insha-Allah.
peace
mohammed noh -
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Peace Joe,
I found the key to resolve the issue.
We are allowed to eat
-Domesticated animals except blood, dead, and swine.
-All seafood.
-All game(hunted animals). - not defined in the Quran.The rest is forbidden. eg. dogs, donkeys, horses etc.
Peace,
Rami
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Peace Joe,
I found the key to resolve the issue.
We are allowed to eat
-Domesticated animals except blood, dead, and swine.
-All seafood.
-All game(hunted animals). - not defined in the Quran.The rest is forbidden. eg. dogs, donkeys, horses etc.
Peace,
Rami
You are making a double standard. On one hand you are saying "horses are forbidden" (which is of course not true), but then on the other hand, you are saying that everything that is hunted is allowed??
If you want to abide by those rules, OK. I am not. Besides, are you still saying that chicken is forbidden???
@ Joe/mohammed (which ever is your name),
thanks for providing additional evidence from the Quran.
I think this issue needs no more discussion from Rami and myself. I am surprised that it got a quick revival just now.
Peace
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PEACE, TO ALL,
Please pardon this, yet, another spin-off of the thread.. "Is Swine Halal". Hopefully, this will be the last.
To date, none of my opponents i.e. Marie, Savage Carrot, Tanveer, Jm, Jaxal, Sweden, have been able to overcome the following analysis. If my analysis is incorrect, then, I am hoping that Layth, Wakas, Joe, Idol, Ayman, Idris, Someone, or whoever, will step in and expose the flaw in it. It is my understanding that, when the following two ayats are taken together, they absolutely preclude the pig, either in whole or part, as being haram for food for the eater to eat.
6146 And to those who were Jews We made unlawful every animal having claws/talons, and of oxen and sheep We made unlawful to them the fat of both, except such as was on their backs or the entrails or what was mixed with bones this was a punishment We gave them on account of their rebellion, and We are surely Truthful.
55 This day (all) the good things are allowed to you; and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them;...
This is my understanding. At the time Al-Quran was being revealed, the species of animal, the pig, was not haram to the People of the Book i.e the Jews. This is my understanding, because Allah chooses His Words and means what He says, meaing, Allah made an entire category/species of animals haram to the Jews i.e. those with claws. Now, given the very fundamental fact/reality that pigs do not have claws, absolutely precludes their species of animals as being one of the species of haram animals. With this in mind then, because Allah did not make the pig haram to the Jews and, even if the Jews did forbid to themselves, it was not by Allah's Decree, that they did this, hence, the pig, at the the time Al-Quran was being revealed, was not by Allah's Decree an haram species. Given that the pig was not haram, ayat 55, clearly, tells us that the food of the People of the Book is lawful to us, hence, the pig, has to be halal to us, because it was never haram to the People of the Book in the first place and their food is halal for us.
- /JM/, wrote We have no direct knowledge of whether or not God forbade the Jews to eat pig. The torah may have been altered, so, it cannot be regarded as a reliable source of knowledge.
Now, Allah, per ayat 55, tells us that the food of the People of the Book/the Jews, is halal for us and vice versa. I've established without doubt that, prior to Al-Quran, the pig was not haram, because there exists no Quranic evidence to support such a claim, (JM, backs this up), thus, the pig, at the time Al-Quran is being revealed, is halal for the Muslim, because it was halal for the Jews/People of the Book, in that, it was NEVER haram to them in the first place. The fat of oxen and sheep and clawed animals become halal for the People of the Books/Jews, because these things were never haram for mankind in general in the first place, just for the Jews in particular, as punishment for their transgressions and not due to these things being in and of themselves rijsun/fasiqun/unhealthy for the eater to eat.
Now, prior to Allah taking away clawed animals and the fat of oxen and sheep (as punishment to the Jews), these things WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE BEEN HALAL for the Jews, otherwise, if they were already haram, how does Allah punish them? Does He make them MORE haram? Where is the pig haram before Al-Quran? Does Allah, before He revealed His Quran, decree that the pig was haram? If not, then ayats 55 and 6146, destroys the argument that the pig, either in part or whole, is haram as food.
Now, unless I've missed something in these two ayats, I don't see how the pig, either in whole or part, can possibly be haram.
Looking forward to your replies.
Listen dude, if you are so hungry for pig (whose flesh is so similar to that of humans that dermatological skin testing is done on pigs), why not just enjoy some pig (which is full of lectins, that is allergic proteins which cause an immune response of blood agglutination for all blood types) and forget about the Qur'an too while you're at it?
Why, if your craving for pig meat is so strong, do you need to wrangle with the Qur'an? Just let the Qur'an go and devour pigs to all your hearts content. Do you have some particular love for the Qur'an that you require it to tell you that pig is alright to eat? Clearly you hunger for pig, so why not eat the pig, and as much as you want? Why are you letting the Qur'an get in the way of your hearts desire?
If you believe in God, you know God created the pig, and then to top it off, God made you crave for the pig so much that you write multiple articles about it. So what could the harm possibly be? Surely, God knows your pork loving heart, and may forgive you for doing what is supposed to be harmful for you.
While having your pork dish, why not add some nice wine or alcoholic beverage to the meal as well? Maybe invite a female to fornicate with too. Have a ball (pig testacles?)
If you crave it, why dispute it, if you love it, why do you restrain yourself? What benefit is it for you to not do everything you want to do? Why not live your short life enjoying the things you so deeply desire?
In my case, I am allergic to all that, even fornication, but if you have a taste for it, oh what a struggle it must be to listen to some dusty old book that you care so deeply for apparently?
If you don't care at all what it says, then go wild, have fun!
Also, if you love the smell of roasted pig flesh, the smell of flesh roasting, you may be granted an eternity of that odor which is so pleasurable to you. It personally makes me a bit sick, but I know a place you might be well suited to where that smell one might imagine would be frequent.
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Listen dude
You write like this guy is going to read what you write right now right here.
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You write like this guy is going to read what you write right now right here.
Haha yeah, I know he wrote it in 2005, I was writing it as a general humorous reaction. Humorous for me and my family anyway if they were to read it, and some of the people who enjoy my posts and follow them here maybe, or anyone who might find it while also knowing that I'm silly.
Priest Bokmei just represents a general "shadow" to say these things to for whatever humor and lessons they may contain.
Not important to me if he eats pork or not or thinks the Qur'an says it or not, but the one point I've been developing in some posts is the idea that some people have certain cravings in them it seems which maybe you and I are not given to the same degree or at all.