Inheritance according to Qur?an

Mazhar

Mazhar, simple question was asked which again you did not answer?

Please state clearly if deceased man leaves total wealth 60 gold coins only inheritors

1 sister and 1 brother?

How much to each exactly?

Then you said

It needs to cover all combinations mixed siblings 1+ sisters 1+ brothers.
4176 and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings
rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk
so to the male similitude apportion the two (females)

example 60 gold coins

1 sister (20 coins) 1 brother (40 coins)
2 sisters (30 coins) 1 brother (30 coins)
3 sisters (36 coins) 1 brother (24 coins)

Proposition given was
1 sister and 1 brother

I asked you to explain your distribution keeping this in mind;

Noon_waalqalami

Then you said

Proposition given was
1 sister and 1 brother

I asked you to explain your distribution keeping this in mind;

Mazhar, distributions were given numerous times and you answered nothing!

4176 kalala ? NOT for him waladun ? is the key difference or toggle
e.g. 1 sister (1/3) & 1 brother (2/3) i.e. 21 ratio male to female

412 kalala waladun present else unknown which verse to apply e.g. 1 sister
1 sister/brother (1/6) & son/s (5/6)

Refer to template posted which you would be torn to pieces in any debate on this topic since you contradict yourself every other post and cannot even give distribution of simple case of 1 sister & 1 brother nor do you know which verse to use only divert keep asking perpetual questions. This is really annoying so if that is your goal to annoy people not answer anything only keep asking perpetual questions, dodge, run away, divert, switch cases, etc., get last word so be it.

The Qur'anic Term Kalala
Studies in Arabic Language and Poetry, Hadit, Tafsir, and Fiqh Notes on the Origins of Islamic Law
Edition 1
Author Agostino Cilardo

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51N%2BX6tg1uL.jpg

http//www.amazon.com/The-Quranic-Term-Kalala-Monograph/dp/074861916X

David S. Powers ?BNF 328a and the Mystery of al-Kalala?
http//rorotoko.com/interview/20090904_powers_david_muhammad_not_father_any_your_men_making_last_prophet/?page=2

http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(41254)
http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(41766)

411
instructs you the god in awldikum/offspring yours lildhakari/to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (feminine)

so if kunna/be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above two (f/d) so for them (f/p i.e. 3+) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

and if knat/be she (f/s) widatan/one (f/s) so for her al-ni'fu/the half

wali-abawayhi/and to parents dual said person to each one from them dual the sixth from what left if kna/be (m/s) for said person waladun/offspring (son) so if not yakun that be for said person waladun/offspring (child) wawarithahu/and bestows to inherit said person parents dual said person so to mother said person the third so if kna/be (s/m) for said person ikh'watun/brother so to mother said person the sixth from after will instructs in it or judgment

fathers yours and sons yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of

412
and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not yakun that be for them waladun/offspring (child) so if kna/be (m/s) for them waladun/offspring (son) so for you the fourth from what left they from after will made they in it or judgment

and for them the fourth from what left you if not yakun that be for you waladun/offspring (child) so if kna/be (s/m) for you waladun/offspring (son) so to them the eight from what left you from after will thou making in it or judgment

and if kna/be (m/s) rajulun/man yrathu/he bestows to inherit kalalatan (spouse-less without daughter) or im'ra-atun/woman and to said person brother or sister so to each one from them dual the sixth so if kn/be they of (2+) more from such so they partners in the third from after will instructs in it or judgment other than harmful will from the god and the god knower tolerant

4176
they seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in al-kalalati (the spouseless without daughter) if im'ru-on/person perished not for him waladun/offspring (child) and for him sister so for her half what left and he yarithuh/he inheritor hers if not yakun that be for her waladun/offspring (child)

so if knat/be dual ith'natayni/two (i.e. daughters) so to them dual (f/d) the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) from what left

and if kn /be they of (2+) ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk falildhakari/so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (feminine)

shows the god for you lest/that stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

http//oi60.tinypic.com/4g2lbb.jpg

Mazhar

Then you said

Proposition given was
1 sister and 1 brother

I asked you to explain your distribution keeping this in mind;

Please answer this only about one sister and one brother as you distributed and leave repeating that table made by your imagination without support of words of Qur'aan.

First line syays one brother or one sister, either case they get one-sixth

The other line syas one sister, she gets one half.

Noon_waalqalami

Please answer this only about one sister and one brother as you distributed and leave repeating that table made by your imagination without support of words of Qur'aan.

First line syays one brother or one sister, either case they get one-sixth

The other line syas one sister, she gets one half.

No she gets one half 4176 NOT for him waladun!
CONFIRMS logically IF waladun use 412 (1/6)!
CANNOT have two different amounts to 1 sister!

As for my template being imaginary -- you have shown nothing!
You cannot even correctly post simple case 1 sister & 1 brother!
You gave them 2/3 mentioned for 2 females! Left 1/3 to nobody!

Mazhar

You gave them 2/3 mentioned for 2 females! Left 1/3 to nobody!

Inheritance is distributed by considering two things; the allocations made by Allah, these are mandatory allocation. What remains is according to testation.

In case there is a daughter, two daughters, a daughter and a son; many progenies they are given the mandatory shares. One-half and two=thirds maximum. Left over is according to testation.

Each situation is separately dealt by Allah.

You read things in one go for which reason you are confused as what to do when I place two sentences of Ayah 412 and 4176 side by side about a sister.

Mazhar

No she gets one half 4176 NOT for him waladun!
CONFIRMS logically IF waladun use 412 (1/6)!
CANNOT have two different amounts to 1 sister!

As for my template being imaginary -- you have shown nothing!
You cannot even correctly post simple case 1 sister & 1 brother!
You gave them 2/3 mentioned for 2 females! Left 1/3 to nobody!

Where is written in 412 that he has a son?

Noon_waalqalami

Where is written in 412 that he has a son?

Again IF kalala NO son 4176 1 sister = 1/2
THEN kalala with son is 412 1 sister = 1/6

Use brain ELSE cannot resolve contradiction!

One-half and two=thirds maximum. Left over is according to testation.

Again that is ridiculus! No testation, he was hit in the head by a brick! brickwall

Again you gave 1 male & 1 female 2/3 allocated for exactly two females!

4176 ... so if knat/be dual (females) ith'natayni/two (females)
falahum/so to them dual (females) the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3)

336... and not the male as the female!

Mazhar

Again IF kalala NO son 4176 1 sister = 1/2
THEN kalala with son is 412 1 sister = 1/6

Use brain ELSE cannot resolve contradiction!

Contradiction is in your brain. It is not brain, but the words of the Book that decide what to give and to whom.

The moment you start using brain to understand the text, you will find the inheritance discourse one of the most simple.

Never forget that testation by the deceased and allocations by Allah the Exalted give the complete disposal of the wealth left by the deceased. The maximum allocation done by Allah the Exalted is two-thirds of the wealth, not the entire wealth. Your basic presumption is erroneous.

Either you do not understand what this clause means and to what part of the preceding sentences it links; or you wish not to consider it part of inheritance discourse.

You also either do not know this clause or wish not to treat it part of the inheritance discourse

Noon_waalqalami

you will find the inheritance discourse one of the most simple.

Yes most simple and the reason you never answer simple questions.
You allocate to male what's for females contradict yourself every post.
Again, you post absurd illogical nonsense and please stop spamming.

Peace!

McKenna36

Hi guys!
I don't want to read all the 53 pages so let's make it short; did we finally find a solution(logical solution!) for that error?

Noon_waalqalami

Hi guys!
I don't want to read all the 53 pages so let's make it short; did we finally find a solution(logical solution!) for that error?

Peace McKenna36,

There are few things to research especially meaning of kalala which according to poems (unlikely influenced by sectarian bias) which vary widely on interpretation and can refer to a deceased, living "indirect heir" or either.

http//oi58.tinypic.com/i26moj.jpg

walam/and not I inherit al-majd/the glory al-taleed/the glorious kalala

An Anonymous Poet proclaimed
surely, a father protects more wrathfully his offspring?

http//oi62.tinypic.com/sfwg7k.jpg

and patron al-kalalati not gets angry

According to poet, a parent is protective of children whereas not about those under their guardianship.

Thus main issue which verse to apply for 1 sister (1/6) 412 or 1/2 4176?

Distributions work with presence of son kalala (412) and no child (4176)?

Likewise what to do when there are exactly (2) daughters and/or 3+ sisters?

FreedomStands

Hi guys!
I don't want to read all the 53 pages so let's make it short; did we finally find a solution(logical solution!) for that error?

I don't want to read even one page!

Noon_waalqalami

Hi guys!
I don't want to read all the 53 pages so let's make it short; did we finally find a solution(logical solution!) for that error

Peace McKenna36,

The quagmire was kalala and case of when there are exactly two daughters and likewise three+ sisters?

Only way to resolve was 411 mixed gender children; 412 same gender sibling/s; 4176 mixed gender siblings.

In addition kalala refers to an indirect heir (sibling/s) who only inherit if there is no spouse and no child/walad (4176).

Here is summary

411 to children if mixed gender
to the male similitude apportion the two (f/d)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 son
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

(I.e. only if two daughters to male/s same the two females NOT always twice as much!)

so if be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (3+) above two (f/d)
so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 son
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 son
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half

1/2 daughter, 1/2 son/s

411 to parents if child
1/3 parents (1/6 each), 3/4 daughter/s or son/s (if mixed gender children distribute 3/4 per above)

411 to parents no child and both parents alive
1/3 mother, 2/3 father
1/6 mother, 1/6 sibling (412), 2/3 father
1/6 mother, 1/3 siblings (412 same gender or 4176 mixed gender), 1/2 father

412 to husband
1/4 husband, 1/3 parents (1/6 each), 5/12 daughter/s or son/s (if mixed gender children use 411)
1/2 husband, 1/2 mother/father
1/2 husband, 1/2 (1/2*1/3 = 1/6 mother, 1/3 father)

412 to wife
1/8 wife, 1/3 parents (1/6 each), 13/24 daughter/s or son/s (if mixed gender children use 411)
1/4 wife, 3/4 mother/father
1/4 wife, 3/4 (3/4*1/3 = 1/4 mother, 1/2 father)

412 kalala (sibling heirs same gender, no spouse, no child)
1/6 sister/brother + 5/6 parent
1/3 sisters/brothers + 2/3 parent
1/6 mother (411), 1/2 father, 1/3 sisters/brothers (if mixed gender siblings distribute 1/3 per 4176)

4176 alkalala (sibling heirs mixed gender; no spouse; no child)
1/2 sister, 1/2 brother/s
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 brother/s

and if be they of siblings menfolk of and womenfolk (3+)
so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 brother
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 two brothers (1/5 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 three brothers (2/15 each)

2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 brother/s
5/7 five sisters (1/7 each), 2/7 brother/s

(I.e. only if 3+ sisters to male/s same the two females NOT always twice as much!)

411 instructs you the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours to the male similitude apportion the two (f/d) so if be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (3+) above two (f/d) so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half and to parents two his/said person to each one of them dual the sixth of what left if be for him/said person waladun/offspring so if not that be for him/said person waladun/offspring and inherit him/said person parents dual his/said person so to mother his/said person the third so if be for him/said person sibling so to mother his/said person the sixth from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment fathers yours wa-abnukum/and sons/children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of

412 and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not that be for them (f/p) waladun/offspring so if be for them waladun/offspring so for you the fourth of what left they from after instruction/will instrucks they in it or judgment and for them the fourth of what left you if not that be for you waladun/offspring so if be for you waladun/offspring so to them the eight of what left you from after instruction/will thou making in it or judgment and if be rajulun/man inherits kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) or im'ra-atun/woman and to him/said person brother or sister so to each one of them dual the sixth so if be they of more from such so they partners in the third from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment other than harmful instruction/will from the god and the god knower tolerant

4176 seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if im'ru-on/person perished not is for him/said person waladun/offspring and for him/said person sister so for her half what left and he inherits her if not that be for her waladun/offspring so if knat/be dual (f/d) ith'natayni/two so to them dual (f/d) the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) of what left and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+) so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f/d) shows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

Hope this helps to a better understanding; peace and all the best -- Bajram/Eid Abdullah

Mazhar

and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half

1/2 daughter, 1/2 son/s

But where are sons mentioned in Arabic quote? If she is the only offspring then?

huruf

There is not one portion for two women. -there is a portion for each one of them, and that portion of eah one of them is the one alloted the male. There is no such a thing or any hint thereof in the Qur'an that two persons inherit anything jointly. If we twll somebody to make a wire trnasfer to such a person the same as it has been done for ttwo such and such persons, it does not mean double it means like the one that has been made to eahc of them.

There is no "one" portion for two sisters, it is one portion for each sister.

Salaam

Noon_waalqalami

But where are sons mentioned in Arabic quote? If she is the only offspring then?

411 to children mixed gender, she cannot be only child which contradicts.

1/2 daughter + 1/4 husband + 1/3 parents = 13/12 or 1.08333333

Only child is thus 1 - (1/4 husband + 1/3 parents) = 5/12 child or children mixed (use 411)

There is no "one" portion for two sisters, it is one portion for each sister.

Salaam

Peace huruf, was your response to anything my prior post; if so which part?

4176 so if knat/be dual two (females) so to them dual the third each

2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 brother
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

and if be they of siblings menfolk of and womenfolk (3+)
so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 brother
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 two brothers (1/5 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 three brothers (2/15 each)

FreedomStands

I have a Fatwa for you guys. Give your sons daughters whatever you think is best and most right, and Allah will judge you according to your intentions and the justice you tried to do (hopefully).

Giving women a half portion may have been due to urging them towards marriage where their dowry would be another portion of wealth, and it may have been a means to keep a certain social system running more justly and smoothly. These days things have changed, but one message has not changed from the very beginning of human interaction with reality "do what you think is best".

Noon_waalqalami

I have a Fatwa for you guys. Give your sons daughters whatever you think is best and most right, and Allah will judge you according to your intentions and the justice you tried to do (hopefully).

Peace, no fatwa necessary simply write will as stated; verses apply to proceeds after will or if no will to avoid family quarrels.

411... from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment

Giving women a half portion may have been due to urging them towards marriage where their dowry would be another portion of wealth, and it may have been a means to keep a certain social system running more justly and smoothly. These days things have changed, but one message has not changed from the very beginning of human interaction with reality "do what you think is best".

Not always women get half as much. Here is prior summary again, depending on combination males can actually get less.

411 to children if mixed gender
to the male similitude apportion the two (f/d)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 son -- only son twice as much
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 two sons (1/4 each) -- share equally
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 three sons (1/6 each) -- daughters get 3 to 2 or 1.5
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 four sons (1/8 each) -- daughters get twice as much!

(if two daughters to male/s same the two females NOT always to male/s twice as much!)

so if be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (3+) above two (f/d)
so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 son
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each) -- daughters get twice as much!

2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 son
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half

1/2 daughter, 1/2 son
1/2 daughter, 1/2 two sons (1/4 each) -- only daughter gets twice as much!
1/2 daughter, 1/2 three sons (1/6 each) -- only daughter gets three times!

411 to parents if child
1/3 parents (1/6 each), 3/4 daughter/s or son/s (if mixed gender children distribute 3/4 per above)

411 to parents no child and both parents alive
1/3 mother, 2/3 father
1/6 mother, 1/6 sibling (412), 2/3 father
1/6 mother, 1/3 siblings (412 same gender or 4176 mixed gender), 1/2 father

412 to husband
1/4 husband, 1/3 parents (1/6 each), 5/12 daughter/s or son/s (if mixed gender children use 411)
1/2 husband, 1/2 mother/father
1/2 husband, 1/2 (1/2*1/3 = 1/6 mother, 1/3 father)

412 to wife
1/8 wife, 1/3 parents (1/6 each), 13/24 daughter/s or son/s (if mixed gender children use 411)
1/4 wife, 3/4 mother/father
1/4 wife, 3/4 (3/4*1/3 = 1/4 mother, 1/2 father)

412 kalala (sibling heirs same gender, no spouse, no child)
1/6 sister/brother + 5/6 parent
1/3 sisters/brothers + 2/3 parent
1/6 mother (411), 1/2 father, 1/3 sisters/brothers (if mixed gender siblings distribute 1/3 per 4176)

4176 alkalala (sibling heirs mixed gender; no spouse; no child)
1/2 sister, 1/2 brother
1/2 sister, 1/2 two brothers (1/4 each) -- only sister gets twice as much!
1/2 sister, 1/2 three brothers (1/6 each) -- only sister gets three times!

2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 brother
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each) -- sisters get twice as much!
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each) -- sisters get three times!

and if be they of siblings menfolk of and womenfolk (3+)
so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 brother
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 two brothers (1/5 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 three brothers (2/15 each)

2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 brother
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

(if 3+ sisters to male/s same the two females NOT always males get twice as much!)

411 instructs you the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours to the male similitude apportion the two (f/d) so if be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (3+) above two (f/d) so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half and to parents two his/said person to each one of them dual the sixth of what left if be for him/said person waladun/offspring so if not that be for him/said person waladun/offspring and inherit him/said person parents dual his/said person so to mother his/said person the third so if be for him/said person sibling so to mother his/said person the sixth from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment fathers yours wa-abnukum/and sons/children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of

412 and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not that be for them (f/p) waladun/offspring so if be for them waladun/offspring so for you the fourth of what left they from after instruction/will instrucks they in it or judgment and for them the fourth of what left you if not that be for you waladun/offspring so if be for you waladun/offspring so to them the eight of what left you from after instruction/will thou making in it or judgment and if be rajulun/man inherits kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) or im'ra-atun/woman and to him/said person brother or sister so to each one of them dual the sixth so if be they of more from such so they partners in the third from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment other than harmful instruction/will from the god and the god knower tolerant

4176 seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if im'ru-on/person perished not is for him/said person waladun/offspring and for him/said person sister so for her half what left and he inherits her if not that be for her waladun/offspring so if knat/be dual (f/d) ith'natayni/two so to them dual (f/d) the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) of what left and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+) so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f/d) shows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

FreedomStands

God, its not that complicated haha.

runninglikezebras

People should be aware these verses in Quran about inheritance are text manipulations to the Quran

Noticing that the back of Folio 20 contains 25 lines instead of the usual 22 or so, and most importantly considering that the first 6 are too wordy and too broad at the same time, David S. Powers concludes that the last verse of Sura 4, verse 176, was added at the time the copy of this manuscript was first made. How does he arrive at such a conclusion? It is because this legalistic verse has no connection whatsoever with what precedes. And, most significantly, because it introduces a new doctrine in matters of inheritance laws. Everything revolves around the word kal?lah which only appears here and previously in the same Sura (verse 12).
But Powers remarked that a serious problem surfaces in Q 412. There a word has been rewritten, and we can see that the scratched word is kallah, which means sister-in-law

http//rootsofislamtruehistory.com/subpages/Codicology_and_suspected_verses_files/kallah.png

By making up a new word (unknown in Arabic but not in Syro-aramaic 32), kal?lah, and giving it the meaning of ?without descendants?, the manipulators of the Koran were obeying legal requirements in matters of inheritance to sacralize them by means of the Koran, they changed the meaning and the consonants of the word appearing in 412 provided the explanation to their new legal doctrine in the last verse (176)33. This is how Powers found that ?verses were added, revised, and /or removed from the text? and that ?the consonantal skeleton of the Qur??n remained open and fluid for three-quarters of a century? 34.

From http//rootsofislamtruehistory.com/subpages/Codicology_and_suspected_verses.htm - Chapter 7