Can we be misguided and how?
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Peace all,
Lately I have been thinking about the current state of things between individuals and opinions of every variety and I'm wondering whether we can individually be wrong in our opinions.
I speak for myself now, but lately I've been getting a feeling inside me that questions why I discarded a part of my salat which involved praying in the usual way (but with modified content) in the morning and at night. This would bring me great peace and I have found that it has been a definite loss to me. I feel as if I must return to it, and return to going to the masjid on Fridays for example to continue being able to benefit others. This is a personal feeling; the absence of these things has taken its toll on me and I feel that I have been wrong on this.
While I accept the meaning of obligation for salat I do not see the physical salat as being contrary to it in all honesty. It's a difficult thing to discuss when it's a personal matter largely but I feel that I have lost in this matter.
I'm wondering whether the current feelings I am getting to return to what felt right can actually be wrong?
Can I ask how many people still perform physical salat and whether it brings you too the peace that I feel in doing it. Please share as this is an important issue to me right now. Thank you all in advance.
Peace.
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Can I ask how many people still perform physical salat and whether it brings you too the peace that I feel in doing it. Please share as this is an important issue to me right now. Thank you all in advance.
Salaams truth
I perform physical salat - 3 times daily most days. And yes it brings me immense peace in using the structure set out in quran (in my understanding) to remember Allah. What I get from my salat is described in (3923)
God has sent down the best narration, a Scripture that is similar with two paths. The skins of those who reverence their Lord shiver from it, then their skins and their hearts soften up to the remembrance of God. Such is God's guidance; He guides with it whoever He wills. And for whomever God misguides, then none can guide him.
For me this issue is not of salat but of whether to pray at the masjid or not. This comes and goes for me. But last time I was at the masjid a few weeks ago I kept looking at the name of Muhammad set up there right next to Allah above the mihrab . Part of the prophet's name was marginally higher on the wall that God's. Sometimes this kind of thing doesn't touch me - ie I can cope with it. But kneeling there before a man's name felt so wrong.
I hate the sectarian feelings this kind of thing brings out in me and I criticise myself for not having a better focus on the din of Allah to speak out courtesly and challenge it. But instead I turn away and disengage. As you say in your post these actions leave me with a sense of loss. Truly we are tested in what we are given. May Allah help us strive to succeed in these tests.
peace
asdjk -
Salams ,
a drug addict will feel a loss if he gives it up,simerlarly we would all feel a loss initially even at a later stage UNLESS YOU REPLACE IT WITH SOMETHING MORE WORTHWHILE ? I think.I personally always found what I got from namaaz was a false sense of security and satisfaction, but in doing other things more practical may be earning OR INCREASING MY EARNINGS and helping others in need ON A PERSONAL BASIS RATHER THEN THROUGH CHARITIES ,to me anyway is more worthwhile rather then being an idollist which does not give any body any value in return AND CERTAINLY ALLAH HASN?T ANY NEEDS FOR SUCH ?I THINK.
God Bless.
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Salaam all
Truth, I relate to you both. After wudu this morning, I actually couldn't make up my mind on how to actually begin salaat. In the past, I conducted it the sunni way (without offering prayers to Rasulallah) and followed the prostration with study of the Qur'an. Since I have no proof that the WAY sunnis pray in Salaat contradict the Qur'an, i decided to do so (FYI, if I am wrong in my assumption, please let me know).
I also cringe at the thought of stepping foot into Masjid. Speaking to my Muslim orthodox friends about my choice to follow Allah alone is like trying to move a brick wall with a spoon. In the end, they think that I am a fukr and I end up frustrated because they have attributed some lie to Allah or say that I am reading the Qur'an out of context.
The former accusation I can deal with, but, unfortunately, I have no proof against the latter. What if we are reading it out of context? Better yet, what IS the correct context? Not knowing Arabic makes me even more leary since-even on this website-I see different interpretations and paraphrases of words that MAY be of importance to the Message of Allah (i.e. gross sin vs. harm...are one or both prohibited by god and what does that mean for alcohol consumption). In all honestly, it feels as if we have reopened the doors to ijtihad, but I know for a FACT that I do not have the knowledge to participate.
At this point, I basically follow the Qur'an alone AND traditional aspects of Orthodox Islam that 1) I want to incorporate in my life and 2) that do not contradict Allah. If for any reason I feel as if an Islamic rule is not in accordance with the Qur'an (i.e. calling things haram when they are really not), I don't take a second look.
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I think what the big issue is, is the direction people face while doing the conventional salat, and their motivations behind it. I think the direction people do the conventional salat is a major aspect of it, and its in the direction of Mecca, of course its not physically/literally so for most, but the intent is that people are praying to a specific land that contains a cube, and we are judged by our intents.
I dont know if God forbids the conventional method, of bowing and reciting parts of the Quran, (at the current moment, this method of praying comes under the term 'Dua' in my opinion, but in any case I dont think its frowned on in God's book), but I'm pretty sure God forbids uttering a messengers name next to His in prayer, and praying (with intention) towards a rock in Saudi Arabia.
People also dress a similar way while going to the mosque, and you might think its harmless that they grow their beards really long or wear a cap, but again the intent is important here. It doesnt matter if its a cultural thing, but if they attribute their wardrobe to Allah's Words, then they're doing something wrong.
Personally, I cant think I can go to a mosque, the peoples attitude is nothing like mine, they're content with praying 5 times a day, and then returning back to their own ways afterwards, they're not living as best as they can in my opinion. They're not trying to further their knowledge in the universe, they believe in superstions and man made myths, they're not reaching out to different people to help them, they remain in their own little groups and regard every other human being an outsider, they're not following God alone. I'm at risk of making a big generalisation, but unfortunately this is what I've seen so far from most 'muslims' in the UK at least. Of course there are good open minded people that attend, but they are the minority, and I guess thats the way it will always be, God warns us not to follow the majority blindly anyway.
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Salam Truth,
Well I'd like to explain to you why I believe that the physical movements are indeed correct. It's my personal point of view
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if you are familiar with the narration in Sura 12, you will see Joseph telling his father about a dream, in that dream he says HE SAW objects prostrating to him. So seeing this means he saw some physical movement somehow, because I can't imagine him seeing them just obeying his laws or whatever weired interpretations which i read. At the end of the narration, he SAW his family prostrating in front of him and he thus had his dream confirmed. Seeing this means to me at least, he saw some physical movement.
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in Sura 24 we read about Houses (buyout) which God has permitted to be raised and his name is mentioned in these houses. I see no reason to understand this word as something else. In the Quran constantly we read about the word Buyout as meaning houses, and in the same Sura we read about houses which are not inhabited, where we can find benefits for ourselves.
Best regards,
sabo -
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i think most ppl r misguided presently .. look aroudn u .. different sects .. different beliefts .. some extremists .. some liberals .. what is this ? allah has not misguided us buit man has misguided himself .. haha
for eg.
how cna music be prohibited ?
how can social interaction between 2 sexes be prohibited ?
etc etc etc ...who agrees ?
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peace be upon you sabo,
- if you are familiar with the narration in Sura 12, you will see Joseph telling his father about a dream, in that dream he says HE SAW objects prostrating to him.
He saw the sun, the moon, and planets doing "sujood", on the contrary this is proof that it is not a physical act because none of the mentioned can physically prostrate, on the other hand they do submit to laws
So seeing this means he saw some physical movement somehow, because I can't imagine him seeing them just obeying his laws or whatever weired interpretations which i read.
How is that a wierd interpretation? Personally I see the sun, moon, and planets physically prostrating as not only physically impossible but absurd. Seeing them submit to him makes much more sense.
At the end of the narration, he SAW his family prostrating in front of him and he thus had his dream confirmed. Seeing this means to me at least, he saw some physical movement.
You need to begin quoting verses because it never said he SAW his family do "sujood", they submitted or heard and obeyed to his authority as king, confirming his vision that had shown such, there is no proof in either verses that "sujood" is physical
peace
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Salam all,
I pray the traditional method. I have not been convinced by the arguments against it. Traditional Salat brings me peace. The argumnets against the traditional prayer made me pay attention to many important aspects of Prayer that I have ignored in the past. Now, I make an effort to communicate with GOD as much as possible, something that has brought me more peace.
I admire your open mindedness, Truth and your humility. May GOD show us all the straightened path.
Hussein
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Peace all,
And this is the new username as promised. Some had found the nick 'truth' to be inappropriate a while ago and while I hadn't agreed totally I nevertheless see the point and decided to make the change voluntarily.
There's been some changes to my understanding lately after much struggle and I hope this can represent a new start of sorts. Thanks to everyone for always making me feel welcome.
Regards.
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Hello Idris,
How is that a wierd interpretation? Personally I see the sun, moon, and planets physically prostrating as not only physically impossible but absurd. Seeing them submit to him makes much more sense.
Ok if it makes sense to you, no problem.
You need to begin quoting verses because it never said he SAW his family do "sujood", they submitted or heard and obeyed to his authority as king, confirming his vision that had shown such, there is no proof in either verses that "sujood" is physical
I think that I said in the beginning of my post that it is my personal view, so its me who knows what I need and what I don't need ) But anyway I see from verse 12100 that what he saw in the dream was seen in the scene, and that's why he said to his father "that" is the interpretation of what I SAW. Again its my personal view, so peace )
Best regards,
sabo -
Peace servant, all.
I kinda liked your previous name, lol, at least it wasnt in capitals or anything, but oh well.
Back on topic, hlatif if you continue to do the traditional salat, do you still face in the 'direction' of Mecca? Because like I said above, it seems to be a major factor in the traditional method, unless you've chosen to do it any random direction?
For a while I was confused and not sure about this method of salat, I didnt know what verses to recite, to bow or not, which direction, I tried them all, and in the end I decided my actions in life were more important than phsyical prostations, and that my intent towards other people, animals and the land around me is what I would be judged on. I still do dua, I read the Quran online/offline whenever I have spare time, and mostly every night before I go to bed, and 'la illaha il Allah' and 'bismilahi rahmani rahim' is on my breath nearly every second of my day, I make a conscious effort to not associate anything with the abstract concept of my Creator, and pray to be guided to the straight path.
Thats all I can do for now, until I learn more knowledge. I'm at peace now, with one book as my reminder and God as my guide, even if there are still a few concepts that are debatable right now, I still feel much more free than before I stumbled onto FM last year, when I was found myself slowly becoming a sunni after years of non-interest in my family's faith. Now I've introduced my parents to the idea of God alone, and that nearly everything they believed in was false, and am pleased to say that their reaction was very positive, they're open minded people (logic thankfully works, i.e - God is not in a cube, our wardrobe does not make us muslims, etc), and I think eventually they will believe fully in what I believe.
God guides whom He will, the Most Merciful.
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Not sure yet, but it could be equated with when you wash yourself before you leave the house, a simply practical thing before you begin to 'salat' whatever the term may really be, obligations, commitments, etc. A main term I think that is derived from the word 'salat' is to 'follow behind' as in follow Islam, etc. And washing your face, arms and feet everyday makes you clean and presentable so you can go about doing that.
Like Natu I'm still not sure if we're to do salat through sunup to sundown or at sunup and at sundown, etc. The learning process continues...
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Salam All, beatnik,
I thank you for asking me your question. I will start by saying that the debate over SALAT was very healthy to me in many ways. The questions that were raised were all thought provoking. I was distressed by how easily some people labelled traditional SALAT as idol worship. This struck me as a form of fundamentalism, and was not productive to the debate.
I do like how you described the way you live your life. I think that it is beautiful and rewarding as you seem to feel. I try to do the same, as well as pray in a physical manner. I feel that the Prayer is the time when I separate myself from everything and have my personal meeting with GOD.
What do I face when I pray. I will answer by addressing two very important words (to me). the first is QIBLA. Literally speaking it means a front of someone or something is facing a front of someone or something. So, when I face a QIBLA, I am trying to be facing GOD, and that is the direction of gaining GOD's acceptance (traditionally in Arabic, what you accept you face and what you refuse, you turn your back to). Other AYAT talk about the WAJH (front/face) of GOD and how people try to face. To me, the front of GOD is the QIBLA and what people are aiming for, is the acceptance of GOD.
2115To Allah belong the east and the West Whithersoever ye turn, there is the presence of Allah. For Allah is all-Pervading, all-Knowing.
Here, the translater used presence for WAJH. To me, I would use the word Acceptance for WAJH is the FRONT and is the sign of acceptance.The other word is SHATR. This word is the derivative of the root SH-T-R and it means Divide something in Half. So SHATR, although meaning direction, it really means facing the half of the earth where the MASJID HARAM 2144 is located and not really facing the MASJID itself, nor the KAABA. I live in the US so I face east. When I visit a mosque, I pray with the people in it and when I don't know where the east is, I face any direction, for GOD is all accepting.
That is what I do. I also like what you do. I am not here to judge anyone and I hope that no one, but GOD will judge me. I understand that we are all humans and therefore will make mistakes. I do believe that GOD will forgive those who make honest mistakes (me or others), as long as they are honest with themselves and with GOD and as long as they are open to his words.
Salam
Hussein
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Salaam Hussein,
What you wrote regarding Al Qiblah is really nice. I never gave it a thought! In my mind it has always been a synonym to Kaaba and that's all. Regarding Shadtra, personally, I use my compass wherever I go. Only last Friday I learned from our teacher in the Quran study group that as long as you are facing the right direction towards Mecca then that should be enough as that is what Shadtra means. It doesn?t have to be by the millimetre (the way I usually do it!)!
Although it is simple language I don't know why I never thought of it!?
So thank you for sharing that.Salaams
Taj
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peace be upon you All,
On the salat (slw) issue, I think its important not to go to extremes and end up missing the point.
Some extreme views might include
to think it must be completely non-physical,
to think it must be completely physical,
to think everyone must uphold slw in exactly the same way,
to believe they must face the "Kabba" in "Mecca" to the mm (if one performs the traditional interpretation of slw)**in truth, they will be facing space and not the "Kabba" in "Mecca". Also, basic pythagoras tells us that if one is off by one degree they can end up over a hundred miles off depending on where they are.
The basic meaning of slw is to go/turn towards in a positive/close manner. When one calls/petitions The God, it can be described as slw , just as non-believers can uphold slw by obeying the law of the reading/system , and lastly The God can send many slw upon us .
Wakas
