l Khamr wal Miseyr- Alcohol and Gambling
-
Even if alcohol would not be "haraam" it is obviously wise to abstain from this blood thinning agent. It does have only disadvantageous effects on the body except the narcotic effect which you could live without. The narcotic effect is only temporary and after that you will get the withdrawal side - effects (hangover). I would argue you drink a poison not even a drug since alcohol is only the result of a chemical reaction. See the procedure of making wine for an explanation.
Funnily alcohol could be used as fuel for an engine and people drink it -)
Its various uses is incredible.
-
Salams
Woaw woaw easy guys im not encouraging alcohol in any way, I know very well the harm it can do .
Like I said I only made this post to show understanding of a phrase (khamr wal misiyr) since I was looking into those ayat and noticed something..thats it.
I agree with you guys if you can dont drink alcohol it CAN ruin your life so best to avoid it. At the same time if you know yourself and drink in moderation then keep it limited and dont come to prayer drunk .
FreedomStand those ayat are not forbidding it. I believe Khamr wal misiyr is a game and its saying theres more wrong than benefit in it, but even if it was talking about Alcohol and gambling separately for sake of argument its saying threes more harm than benefit in them, like saying a knife has good benefits and can also be used for evil , its not forbidding it. The 2nd verse you posted advises you avoid shaitan.''Fa-ijtanabuHU.''
This is not where I intented this topic to go was just trying to show that khamr wal misiyr is together as a pair but anyways for those who want to know what is haram to consume.
16 -115
he has only forbidden you what dies of itself and blood and flesh of swine and that over which any other name than that of allah has been invoked, but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring nor exceeding the limit, then surely allah is forgiving, merciful
and more specifically
5 - 3
forbidden to you is that which dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine, and that on which any other name than that of allah has been invoked, and the strangled (animal) and that beaten to death, and that killed by a fall and that killed by being smitten with the horn, and that which wild beasts have eaten, except what you slaughter, and what is sacrificed on stones set up (for idols) and that you divide by the arrows; that is a transgression. this day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear me. this day have i perfected for you your religion and completed my favor on you and chosen for you islam as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely allah is forgiving, merciful
6 -145say i do not find in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden for an eater to eat of except that it be what has died of itself, or blood poured forth, or flesh of swine-- for that surely is unclean-- or that which is a transgression, other than (the name of) allah having been invoked on it; but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring nor exceeding the limit, then surely your lord is forgiving, merciful
5-93
On those who believe and do good there is no blame for what they eat, when they are careful (of their duty) and believe and do good deeds, then they are careful (of their duty) and believe, then they are careful (of their duty) and do good (to others), and Allah loves those who do good (to others).Any ways thats a different topic altogether there are lots of threads on the legality of it like I said in my first post.
Salams
-
Even if alcohol would not be "haraam" it is obviously wise to abstain from this blood thinning agent. It does have only disadvantageous effects on the body except the narcotic effect which you could live without. The narcotic effect is only temporary and after that you will get the withdrawal side - effects (hangover). I would argue you drink a poison not even a drug since alcohol is only the result of a chemical reaction. See the procedure of making wine for an explanation.
Funnily alcohol could be used as fuel for an engine and people drink it -)
Its various uses is incredible.
I think it is a pretty evident fact that people are idiots in the extreme.
-
Haha I seen a documentary recently showing how many things we can use on our planet as fuel for engines, theres people on youtube that modded their 'carburetor' so they can run it on used cooking oil, and one guy back when GM was running the worlds car industry modded it so that he can get over 100miles per gallon ....GM took his design and patented it so that they can squeeze every dollar . Reminds of me JP Morgan and Nikola Teslas feud for free energy... ( (
-
Peace
If alcohol was haram/forbidden then why this verse 4715?
15 (Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?
I believe that if Allah says haram He means haram and if Allah say avoid He does not mean it is haram. why do people think they know better than The Author of The Qur'an ?
Peace
almarh0m
PS. How can you reconcile The Haram fatwa for alcohol with this 47/15 which talk about the same khamr? Forbidden and Avoid are two different words and meanings. Surely if Allah says haram, he means just that and if He says avoid it means just that as well.
-
The problem is the magical value attributed to things like haram and halal, which instead of being words to teach and guide, become words that dispen se people from hving to think and rule themselves and take responsibility for their acts and decisions. Avoid is also the prohibition of not avoiding in a sense. But when yous ay it is not forbidden there is the automatic reaction to think that it is "halal". Of course it is not halal, it is something else. It is not even a question of black and white where you have in between all the shades of grey. It is rather something of a different order and which exacts a different attitude, which in fact with the avoid word much is imlied like tht it is not s matter of coming in contact with khamr and suddenly stopping and saying it is "haram", but a much reflected and watching attitude to anything that might lead to drinking spirits.
I think that oversimplification of haram versus halal that is at the origin of the moral lazyness of thinking through about our whole attitude to spirits a other thinls.
Salaam
-
The problem is the magical value attributed to things like haram and halal, which instead of being words to teach and guide, become words that dispen se people from hving to think and rule themselves and take responsibility for their acts and decisions. Avoid is also the prohibition of not avoiding in a sense. But when yous ay it is not forbidden there is the automatic reaction to think that it is "halal". Of course it is not halal, it is something else. It is not even a question of black and white where you have in between all the shades of grey. It is rather something of a different order and which exacts a different attitude, which in fact with the avoid word much is imlied like tht it is not s matter of coming in contact with khamr and suddenly stopping and saying it is "haram", but a much reflected and watching attitude to anything that might lead to drinking spirits.
I think that oversimplification of haram versus halal that is at the origin of the moral lazyness of thinking through about our whole attitude to spirits a other thinls.
Salaam
Peace
Just what is not clear from this verse 47/15 especially in respect of Khamr? "Rivers of Wine, a joy to those who drink. Are you really saying that "So Avoid" means neither haram nor halal?.
I do not find Allah's words ambiguous. Please read 47/15 in full.Peace
almarh0m
-
Peace
Just what is not clear from this verse 47/15 especially in respect of Khamr? "Rivers of Wine, a joy to those who drink. Are you really saying that "So Avoid" means neither haram nor halal?.
I do not find Allah's words ambiguous. Please read 47/15 in full.Peace
almarh0m
Do you realize what the Qur'an is talking about though? The drink in paradise does not cause drunkenness, you remain sober, meaning it does not have the effect of alcohol that exists in this world which is the reason it is dangerous or bad. If alcohol did not cause any problems with the mental functioning or other harms, then what would the problem be? What Allah has told people to avoid is for their own benefit, so that they may prosper in doing so. If you want to drink alcohol badly, go for it, and you'll be the one who suffers for it too.
-
Peace All,
Where exactly does it say that it doesn't cause drunkenness in heaven?
Imraan
-
It is wiser to avoid strong drink, but it is not explicitly forbidden.
It is also detrimental to eat sugar, even if it does not affect in the same way.
There is a choice in life to make about what is important.
Be well
-
Peace All,
Where exactly does it say that it doesn't cause drunkenness in heaven?
Imraan
Here
5619
Not they will get headache therefrom and not they will get intoxicatedThank you for your question. Most people on this website seem to know jack squat about the Qur'an or Islam.
-
Peace,
4715 speaks to khamr. 5619 doesn't. Khamr, by definition would be intoxicating.
Imraan
-
Peace,
4715 speaks to khamr. 5619 doesn't. Khamr, by definition would be intoxicating.
Imraan
Drink as you please Imraan.
The point is, alcohol intoxicates and causes a headache and messes with the inhibitions and mental functioning of a person which makes it immediately dangerous and harmful, as evidenced by reality.
It is has no point in referring to intoxication if it is not referring to a drink in resemblance and saying "they won't get headaches or intoxicated from it" come on man.
The point is that it makes it clear what the bad qualities are that are removed from the drink in the paradise.
al-Waqi`ah 5619 - Islam Awakened
(Word by Word), Not they will get headache therefrom and not they will get ... Shakir, They shall not be affected with headache thereby, nor shall they get ...
islamawakened.com/quran/56/19/
as-Saffat 3747 - Islam Awakened
M. M. Pickthall, Wherein there is no headache nor are they made mad ... Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar, In that is neither headache, nor are they intoxicated by it. -
FreedomStands,
What does my comment have to do with drinking as I please?
My point is that where khamr is used, the effect of concealment forms part of the meaning.
That is why you will not find a negation of concealment when khamr is used.
Further, when khamr is used in 2219, the benefit and harm relates to the effect itself, not some use that does not involve the effect of concealment. For example, there are mind altering drugs used for psychiatric patients in which the mind altering component is where the benefits actually lie. Also, people having trouble sleeping have the option of many drugs or even an alcoholic drink where the concealing effect is where the benefit actually lies.
So if you're intent on accusing everyone of wanting to drink freely feel free to ignore my comments and leave it to those who are interested in a productive discussion to reply.
Peace.
Imraan
-
FreedomStands,
What does my comment have to do with drinking as I please?
My point is that where khamr is used, the effect of concealment forms part of the meaning.
That is why you will not find a negation of concealment when khamr is used.
Further, when khamr is used in 2219, the benefit and harm relates to the effect itself, not some use that does not involve the effect of concealment. For example, there are mind altering drugs used for psychiatric patients in which the mind altering component is where the benefits actually lie. Also, people having trouble sleeping have the option of many drugs or even an alcoholic drink where the concealing effect is where the benefit actually lies.
So if you're intent on accusing everyone of wanting to drink freely feel free to ignore my comments and leave it to those who are interested in a productive discussion to reply.
Peace.
Imraan
What is productive about someone making the implication that it is perfectly well and good to drink alcohol. You made another thread about drugs too? So if what you want to do is those things, then leave other people out of it and don't be a part in misguiding them towards doing these harmful substances.
-
Like I said, FreedomStands, feel free to ignore my comments rather than misquote what I am saying.
Peace Out.
To others, would anyone care to discuss the actual merits of my posts?
Imraan
-
Like I said, FreedomStands, feel free to ignore my comments rather than misquote what I am saying.
Peace Out.
To others, would anyone care to discuss the actual merits of my posts?
Imraan
Is there any merit in someone trying to tell people that it is alright to consume intoxicants and that the Qur'an does not say that intoxicants and games of chance are to be avoided?
Is that what you're after with your statements or what? Just be clear again with what your intentions are here.
-
Can anyone tell me if anything made halal in Quran leads to addiction?
Nothing that I know of, except addiction to acrobatics of course.