l Khamr wal Miseyr- Alcohol and Gambling
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FreedomStands,
What does my comment have to do with drinking as I please?
My point is that where khamr is used, the effect of concealment forms part of the meaning.
That is why you will not find a negation of concealment when khamr is used.
Further, when khamr is used in 2219, the benefit and harm relates to the effect itself, not some use that does not involve the effect of concealment. For example, there are mind altering drugs used for psychiatric patients in which the mind altering component is where the benefits actually lie. Also, people having trouble sleeping have the option of many drugs or even an alcoholic drink where the concealing effect is where the benefit actually lies.
So if you're intent on accusing everyone of wanting to drink freely feel free to ignore my comments and leave it to those who are interested in a productive discussion to reply.
Peace.
Imraan
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FreedomStands,
What does my comment have to do with drinking as I please?
My point is that where khamr is used, the effect of concealment forms part of the meaning.
That is why you will not find a negation of concealment when khamr is used.
Further, when khamr is used in 2219, the benefit and harm relates to the effect itself, not some use that does not involve the effect of concealment. For example, there are mind altering drugs used for psychiatric patients in which the mind altering component is where the benefits actually lie. Also, people having trouble sleeping have the option of many drugs or even an alcoholic drink where the concealing effect is where the benefit actually lies.
So if you're intent on accusing everyone of wanting to drink freely feel free to ignore my comments and leave it to those who are interested in a productive discussion to reply.
Peace.
Imraan
What is productive about someone making the implication that it is perfectly well and good to drink alcohol. You made another thread about drugs too? So if what you want to do is those things, then leave other people out of it and don't be a part in misguiding them towards doing these harmful substances.
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Like I said, FreedomStands, feel free to ignore my comments rather than misquote what I am saying.
Peace Out.
To others, would anyone care to discuss the actual merits of my posts?
Imraan
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Like I said, FreedomStands, feel free to ignore my comments rather than misquote what I am saying.
Peace Out.
To others, would anyone care to discuss the actual merits of my posts?
Imraan
Is there any merit in someone trying to tell people that it is alright to consume intoxicants and that the Qur'an does not say that intoxicants and games of chance are to be avoided?
Is that what you're after with your statements or what? Just be clear again with what your intentions are here.
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Can anyone tell me if anything made halal in Quran leads to addiction?
Nothing that I know of, except addiction to acrobatics of course.
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FreedomStands, I think I've made my point abundantly clear. Make of it what you wish.
Peace.
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Forgot to add the details, I mean halal things that would give us liver damage?
Yep, I agree. I think anything that is harmful would disqualify from the "wholesome" or good things, and I think we should study and try to make a good diet for ourselves, but even the bad stuff like fatty stuff or whatever is fine, but then a person might go into excess and hurt themselves with something.
Life is pretty easy and simple, just do what seems best and most sensible, apparently that is so difficult for people!
What Allah has suggested to avoid is all dangerous and harmful stuff. Pork has dangerous lectins for all blood types, eating rotten animals that have died on their own is dangerous, blood consumption, and whatever else all have real dangers.
There is nothing senseless in the Qur'an like "keep a beard" or anything like that.
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Yep, I agree. I think anything that is harmful would disqualify from the "wholesome" or good things, and I think we should study and try to make a good diet for ourselves, but even the bad stuff like fatty stuff or whatever is fine, but then a person might go into excess and hurt themselves with something.
Life is pretty easy and simple, just do what seems best and most sensible, apparently that is so difficult for people!
What Allah has suggested to avoid is all dangerous and harmful stuff. Pork has dangerous lectins for all blood types, eating rotten animals that have died on their own is dangerous, blood consumption, and whatever else all have real dangers.
There is nothing senseless in the Qur'an like "keep a beard" or anything like that.
Lol, it seems that some people feel alcohol is okay in Islam because Allah didn't explicitly say it is HARAM
Being in Islam meaning using the head. But I guess some are still stuck to bukhari days of haram and halal.
Check http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10889.0 -
Lol, it seems that some people feel alcohol is okay in Islam because Allah didn't explicitly say it is HARAM
Being in Islam meaning using the head. But I guess some are still stuck to bukhari days of haram and halal.
Check http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10889.0Yep. Raping babies is not explicitly mentioned either as haram or halal, I guess its a gray area, especially when I'm through with it!
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Yep. Raping babies is not explicitly mentioned either as haram or halal, I guess its a gray area, especially when I'm through with it!
;D lol
I can understand what he felt. I had a friend that started smoking, he is not yet aware about it, but nicotine impair his judgment now. Basically he fear if the nicotine supply suddenly cutted. His brain making up a story to justify his addiction by saying things like, nicotine helped the poor by giving them something to feed. Nicotine helped the country by giving them tax to feed the poor, and so on, and so on. I personally, will not say anything about this, or making an objection, because I know how hard it will be if I debunk the myth.
As for me, ever I said alcohol was halal? Well, yes I did. And the argument told by the Thread Starter just exactly just I said. If only I was not an alcoholic when I first read the quran, I might use my common sense by watching people surround me, even when american movie in the 1990 so proud about their alcoholic habit.
Let's say, this is an excuse, Im too ashamed to admit for my weakness here, as for Im going to say, people just like this Thread Starter, was people who was being fooled by his own instinct. And what made me relieved is, Im not the only one, people will draw the same conclusion.But I can understand what FreedomStands see, its true, what is the point from endorsing it? If you want to get drunk, just do it, no need for justification. But that is who we are, we are naturally need an approval from our society, rather than follow the norm, we tend to manipulate them. Zheeesh, I regret saying this to my townsfolk, they suddenly cut the wine supply without any solution, I remember one of the religious people said something like this "Stop or die trying" and they are deadly serious. I heard gossip some people feed a badly craved alcoholic methanol from the tree, not dieter etyl etanol we used to drank which is from the fruit. People are dying on Indonesia.
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;D lol
Let's say, this is an excuse, Im too ashamed to admit for my weakness here, as for Im going to say, people just like this Thread Starter, was people who was being fooled by his own instinct. And what made me relieved is, Im not the only one, people will draw the same conclusion.
Hey bro first off I dont drink Alcohol and I said aleady we should avoid alcohol and gambling , I used to drink when I was younger I dont now. My position has changed slightly since my first post but I dont think there is a way to edit it so ill say it here. Whats haram is clearly stated in the Quran. Is alcohol haram , NO , should we avoid it or leave it aside YES . I only made the original thread because I believed it could be referring to a pastime of Alcohol and gambling, this would not change anything It was just an idea , however I have changed my stance on that since I see they are mentioned seperatedly ''fihimma'' and other hints that its a not a phrase but 2 separate words. So yes its best to stay away from them but I will never say its Haram , whats Haram is made extremely clear so I see Allah more as advising us to steer clear of Satan and his tools to be succesful.
If theres a way to edit my original post or even delete it Id be more than happy to, and I didnt make it to please my own instincts or support my alcoholism. Im not an alcoholic ( i was when i was in my late teens), I dont drink and I do believe we should AVOID or LEAVE ASIDE that type of stuff from Satan HOWEVER if I was invited as a guest somewhere and someone handed me a beer , IF I drink it I would not feel I committed any sin and I wouldent have anymore because I know it can lead to sin. This is my stance .
Peace brother
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;D lol
I can understand what he felt. I had a friend that started smoking, he is not yet aware about it, but nicotine impair his judgment now. Basically he fear if the nicotine supply suddenly cutted. His brain making up a story to justify his addiction by saying things like, nicotine helped the poor by giving them something to feed. Nicotine helped the country by giving them tax to feed the poor, and so on, and so on. I personally, will not say anything about this, or making an objection, because I know how hard it will be if I debunk the myth.
As for me, ever I said alcohol was halal? Well, yes I did. And the argument told by the Thread Starter just exactly just I said. If only I was not an alcoholic when I first read the quran, I might use my common sense by watching people surround me, even when american movie in the 1990 so proud about their alcoholic habit.
Let's say, this is an excuse, Im too ashamed to admit for my weakness here, as for Im going to say, people just like this Thread Starter, was people who was being fooled by his own instinct. And what made me relieved is, Im not the only one, people will draw the same conclusion.But I can understand what FreedomStands see, its true, what is the point from endorsing it? If you want to get drunk, just do it, no need for justification. But that is who we are, we are naturally need an approval from our society, rather than follow the norm, we tend to manipulate them. Zheeesh, I regret saying this to my townsfolk, they suddenly cut the wine supply without any solution, I remember one of the religious people said something like this "Stop or die trying" and they are deadly serious. I heard gossip some people feed a badly craved alcoholic methanol from the tree, not dieter etyl etanol we used to drank which is from the fruit. People are dying on Indonesia.
Wow, I laughed, that is an amazing story, yeah it is true these things, even certain foods like soy can mess with the brain function and cause increased depression and stuff, studies have found.
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Hey bro first off I dont drink Alcohol and I said aleady we should avoid alcohol and gambling , I used to drink when I was younger I dont now. My position has changed slightly since my first post but I dont think there is a way to edit it so ill say it here. Whats haram is clearly stated in the Quran. Is alcohol haram , NO , should we avoid it or leave it aside YES . I only made the original thread because I believed it could be referring to a pastime of Alcohol and gambling, this would not change anything It was just an idea , however I have changed my stance on that since I see they are mentioned seperatedly ''fihimma'' and other hints that its a not a phrase but 2 separate words. So yes its best to stay away from them but I will never say its Haram , whats Haram is made extremely clear so I see Allah more as advising us to steer clear of Satan and his tools to be succesful.
If theres a way to edit my original post or even delete it Id be more than happy to, and I didnt make it to please my own instincts or support my alcoholism. Im not an alcoholic ( i was when i was in my late teens), I dont drink and I do believe we should AVOID or LEAVE ASIDE that type of stuff from Satan HOWEVER if I was invited as a guest somewhere and someone handed me a beer , IF I drink it I would not feel I committed any sin and I wouldent have anymore because I know it can lead to sin. This is my stance .
Peace brother
Edit? Have a look at my account, I used my real name, people can see my face, and the most provocative post was shown on google when you put my name on it. Forget it. ;D
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Edit? Have a look at my account, I used my real name, people can see my face, and the most provocative post was shown on google when you put my name on it. Forget it. ;D
AHAHAHA thanks bro , I dont use forums this is my first time , its okay atleast I can make a new post with my updated findings . That made me laugh )
Peace brother