Will our sins/wrongdoings be forgiven just by praying for forgiveness?
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You're posting good stuff, like a hero!
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Peace everyone,
Will our sins/wrongdoings be forgiven just by praying for forgiveness? Or do we have to right our wrongs to be forgiven? I believe that the answer to these questions can be found in the Quran. I would like to share some interesting and informative paragraphs from the book "The life in the hereafter" with you.
A few paragraphs from page 78-80 in the book
The book was written by a Pakistani scholar Allama Ghulam Ahmad Parwez. The details of his research on Touba are detailed in his Arabic Dictionary Lughat-ul-Quran "here"
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The book was written by a Pakistani scholar Allama Ghulam Ahmad Parwez. The details of his research on Touba are detailed in his Arabic Dictionary Lughat-ul-Quran "here"
Peace Novice,
I recommend this thread.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606707.0
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(Iblees) said ?O my Cherisher! because You have put me in the wrong,?? (1539)
I think this is a very poor translation. Can a malaika be in the wrong? I would not make any such assumption without fearing for the atonement it will require later. To me Iblis did exactly what God wanted Iblis to do. To rebel.
I already covered in a much older post how any connotations of Iblis being in the right or wrong is invalidated by the Quran saying Iblis will be of the ones given respite (of Judgment). Then why all this pre-emptive judging of Iblis?
I'm pretty sure, just like you and me, Iblis will only accept Gods judgment to be final and valid. When the job is done. There is no final score yet on the scoreboard. Once Iblis has a count of every soul he made disloyal to God (this is Iblis motivation for refusing to sujud), then God can judge Iblis. People judging Iblis now before the game is over are only adding up the score count for Iblis I'm afraid. I know thats a harsh statement but those judging Iblis most likely don't understand the absurdity of this good/bad style of thinking and most likely apply it to others in their environment as well. Judging them while they should be of no concern to them. Just leave the judging to God mmmkay? (Regardless whether they are human, jinn or malaika).
Peace
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I think this is a very poor translation. Can a malaika be in the wrong? I would not make any such assumption without fearing for the atonement it will require later. To me Iblis did exactly what God wanted Iblis to do. To rebel.
I already covered in a much older post how any connotations of Iblis being in the right or wrong is invalidated by the Quran saying Iblis will be of the ones given respite (of Judgment). Then why all this pre-emptive judging of Iblis?
I'm pretty sure, just like you and me, Iblis will only accept Gods judgment to be final and valid. When the job is done. There is no final score yet on the scoreboard. Once Iblis has a count of every soul he made disloyal to God (this is Iblis motivation for refusing to sujud), then God can judge Iblis. People judging Iblis now before the game is over are only adding up the score count for Iblis I'm afraid. I know thats a harsh statement but those judging Iblis most likely don't understand the absurdity of this good/bad style of thinking and most likely apply it to others in their environment as well. Judging them while they should be of no concern to them. Just leave the judging to God mmmkay? (Regardless whether they are human, jinn or malaika).
Peace
Iblis was said to be of the jinn, and everything it seems does exactly what Allah wills, including Iblis, like you said.
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Peace Novice,
I recommend this thread.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606707.0
Peace Taro
Thanks for the link. I have learned a lot from his original Lughat-ul-Qur'an in Urdu language after I started learning Qur'anic Arabic about 10 years ago. No doubt he was a scholar of high caliber who helped many to understand Qur'an. Its amazing that how Qur'anic terms were twisted by the ancient scholars to promote their philosophies. Looks like there was a race going on where every one was proving that He knows the best.
May our Rabb guide us to His straight path.
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Iblis was said to be of the jinn, and everything it seems does exactly what Allah wills, including Iblis, like you said.
Our Rabb's words give us following picture in 711-12
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Traditional translation by Taqi Usmani
We created you, then gave you a shape, then We said to the angels, ?Prostrate yourselves before ?Adam.? So, they all prostrated themselves, except Iblis (Satan). He did not join those who fell prostrate. (11) Allah said, ?What has prevented you from prostrating when I ordered you?? He said, ?I am better than him. You have created me of fire, and created him of clay.? (12)
So Iblis was commanded to prostrate and not otherwise.
May our Rabb guide us to His Guidance
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If you think that is True novice you are contradicted by Quran where it states Iblis is given respite.
One can not judge an act if God decreed respite of judgment.
Not only does your understanding make Quran contradict. It also implies Adam, and all his progeny - including you - are already in the wrong. This logic demands, because the same respite was given to Adam and everyone of us.
So congratulations you've just condemned yourself to hell already, together with Iblis.
Is respite more meaningful to you now when it involves yourself?
Anyone wants more original sin? I have them on discount. Come claim yours now!*
*offer is only valid as long as we have enough space in hell
Peace
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Iblis was said to be of the jinn, and everything it seems does exactly what Allah wills, including Iblis, like you said.
A jinn sneaking in among the malaika? God orders the malaika to sujud. Not the jinn. The argument of association by exclusion is very weak imho. Even if it's valid, if he was a jinn he wasn't addressed to sujud to begin with. And his defense would be supereasy like God be like "yo iblis why you no getting on yo knees buddy?" Iblis be like "hey but wait a minute, you didnt even mention me ... i'm a jinn, not a malaika. Booyakasha! In your face!" God be like "oh I see, then you too!" etc.
Sneaky little jinn... always sneaking around...
Peace
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Our Rabb's words give us following picture in 711-12
( (
Traditional translation by Taqi Usmani
We created you, then gave you a shape, then We said to the angels, ?Prostrate yourselves before ?Adam.? So, they all prostrated themselves, except Iblis (Satan). He did not join those who fell prostrate. (11) Allah said, ?What has prevented you from prostrating when I ordered you?? He said, ?I am better than him. You have created me of fire, and created him of clay.? (12)
So Iblis was commanded to prostrate and not otherwise.
May our Rabb guide us to His Guidance
Yep, and many are commanded things by Allah in the Qur'an, they do not follow it. It is Allah's will that they do not follow it, Allah's will doesn't fail. If Allah willed it, they would follow it or the command. That does not mean not following it is good for them, but whoever Allah has made to err, it is Allah who can harm freely whoever, help freely whoever.
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Yep, and many are commanded things by Allah in the Qur'an, they do not follow it. It is Allah's will that they do not follow it, Allah's will doesn't fail. If Allah willed it, they would follow it or the command. That does not mean not following it is good for them, but whoever Allah has made to err, it is Allah who can harm freely whoever, help freely whoever.
Question is are there legitimate reasons to err? Err has negative connotation. The question concerning Iblis is not a judgment in either bad or wrong but arrogance or rightful pride. Look at Iblis' motivation of his act he warns God this new creation of His will not remain loyal. Whether that was rightful pride, or arrogance is a matter of time. Every decision we make in our lives will affect that outcome and will be used as evidence in Iblis trial.
Peace
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Yep, and many are commanded things by Allah in the Qur'an, they do not follow it. It is Allah's will that they do not follow it, Allah's will doesn't fail. If Allah willed it, they would follow it or the command. That does not mean not following it is good for them, but whoever Allah has made to err, it is Allah who can harm freely whoever, help freely whoever.
This is what Iblis said when he disobeyed the command putting responsibility of his wrong on God.
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He said, ?Now that You have led me astray, I will certainly sit for them (in ambush) on Your straight path.
(716) -
This is what Iblis said when he disobeyed the command putting responsibility of his wrong on God.
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He said, ?Now that You have led me astray, I will certainly sit for them (in ambush) on Your straight path.
(716)Way better translation. God leads Iblis astray and makes him sit for them on Gods straight path. It is what Iblis was made to do. There is no good or wrong in it. Iblis is prevented from obeying an order. He is not disobeying God by doing so as he is led astray by Gods will.
Peace
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If you think that is True novice you are contradicted by Quran where it states Iblis is given respite.
One can not judge an act if God decreed respite of judgment.
Was the respite for judgement or to give time till day of resurrection to misguide people from straight path?
( ( ( (
He said, ?Then give me respite until a day when all will be resurrected. (14) He (Allah) said, ?You are granted respite??. (15) He said, ?Now that You have led me astray, I will certainly sit for them (in ambush) on Your straight path. (16) Then I will come upon them from their front side and from their behind, and from their right and from their left. You will not find most of them grateful. (17) (Not my translation.)
Not only does your understanding make Quran contradict. It also implies Adam, and all his progeny - including you - are already in the wrong. This logic demands, because the same respite was given to Adam and everyone of us.
What is your evidence for red part above from Quran?
So congratulations you've just condemned yourself to hell already, together with Iblis.
Only our Rabb knows who is condemned to hell.
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Way better translation. God leads Iblis astray and makes him sit for them on Gods straight path. It is what Iblis was made to do. There is no good or wrong in it. Iblis is prevented from obeying an order. He is not disobeying God by doing so as he is led astray by Gods will. Peace
Brother these were words of iblis. He was putting blame on God for his disobedience. If it was God's will then why did God ask him this
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We created you, then gave you a shape, then We said to the angels, ?Prostrate yourselves before ?Adam.? So, they all prostrated themselves, except Iblis (Satan). He did not join those who fell prostrate. (11) Allah said, ?What has prevented you from prostrating when I ordered you?? He said, ?I am better than him. You have created me of fire, and created him of clay.? (712) (not my translation)
Iblis was commanded to prostrate and not otherwise.
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fabiizzatika
"Then by Your might REM ? prefixed resumption particle
P ? prefixed preposition bi
N ? genitive feminine noun
PRON ? 2nd person masculine singular possessive pronoun(38823)
la-ugh'wiyannahum
I will surely mislead them EMPH ? emphatic prefix lm
V ? 1st person singular (form IV) imperfect verb
EMPH ? emphatic suffix nn
PRON ? 3rd person masculine plural object pronoun??
(38824)
ajmana
all.Then by Your Might (Gods Might). Iblis makes no accusations towards God.
Peace
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Was the respite for judgement or to give time till day of resurrection to misguide people from straight path?
( ( ( (
He said, ?Then give me respite until a day when all will be resurrected. (14) He (Allah) said, ?You are granted respite??. (15) He said, ?Now that You have led me astray, I will certainly sit for them (in ambush) on Your straight path. (16) Then I will come upon them from their front side and from their behind, and from their right and from their left. You will not find most of them grateful. (17) (Not my translation.)
What is your evidence for red part above from Quran?
Only our Rabb knows who is condemned to hell.
(7246)
walakum
And for you CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
P ? prefixed preposition lm
PRON ? 2nd person masculine plural personal pronoun(7247)
f
in P ? preposition(724
l-ari
the earth N ? genitive feminine noun Earth(7249)
mus'taqarrun
(is) a dwelling place N ? nominative masculine indefinite (form X) passive participle(72410)
wamatun
and livelihood CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
N ? nominative masculine indefinite noun(72411)
il
for P ? preposition(72412)
nin
a time." N ? genitive masculine indefinite noun -
(32281)
wayaqlna
And they say, CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
V ? 3rd person masculine plural imperfect verb
PRON ? subject pronoun(32282)
mat
"When (will be) INTG ? interrogative noun(32283)
hdh
this DEM ? masculine singular demonstrative pronoun(32284)
l-fatu
decision, N ? nominative masculine noun(32285)
in
if COND ? conditional particle(32286)
kuntum
you are V ? 2nd person masculine plural perfect verb
PRON ? subject pronoun
??
(32287)
diqna
truthful?" N ? accusative masculine plural active participle(32291)
qul
Say, V ? 2nd person masculine singular imperative verb(32292)
yawma
"(On the) Day N ? accusative masculine noun(32293)
l-fati
(of) the Decision, N ? genitive masculine noun(32294)
l
not NEG ? negative particle(32295)
yanfau
will benefit V ? 3rd person masculine singular imperfect verb(32296)
alladhna
those who REL ? masculine plural relative pronoun(32297)
kafar
disbelieve V ? 3rd person masculine plural perfect verb
PRON ? subject pronoun(3229
mnuhum
their belief N ? nominative masculine (form IV) verbal noun
PRON ? 3rd person masculine plural possessive pronoun
??
(32299)
wal
and not CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
NEG ? negative particle(322910)
hum
they PRON ? 3rd person masculine plural personal pronoun(322911)
yunarna
will be granted respite." V ? 3rd person masculine plural (form IV) passive imperfect verb
PRON ? subject pronoun(32301)
fa-ari
So turn away REM ? prefixed resumption particle
V ? 2nd person masculine singular (form IV) imperative verb(32302)
anhum
from them P ? preposition
PRON ? 3rd person masculine plural object pronoun(32303)
wa-intair
and wait. CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
V ? 2nd person masculine singular (form VIII) imperative verb(32304)
innahum
Indeed, they ACC ? accusative particle
PRON ? 3rd person masculine plural object pronoun
?? ??
(32305)
muntairna
(are) waiting. -
Was the respite for judgement or to give time till day of resurrection to misguide people from straight path?
( ( ( (
Only our Rabb knows who is condemned to hell.
Yes, please read this these things very slowly and carefully and then help me out. Do not skim it, just slowly look and read the 4 articles and try to understand them without jumping to conclusions, look at the implications that are being mentioned, and focus on the implications of "saying otherwise" than that, then come and help me if there is an issue
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607697.msg373785#new
The four threads linked there have numerous quotes, and the quotes don't even matter too much to me, it is what happens by implication when people suggest otherwise. It takes sophisticated thinking, so you need to really use your mind on this and it will help me out then.
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Then by Your Might (Gods Might). Iblis makes no accusations towards God.
Here iblis is declaring his plan making God's might a witness because if God decides to interfere iblis cannot do anything.
But in 716 iblis is clearly blaming God for his disobedience.
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Its not a question of who is right and who is wrong in understanding Quran. We all are free to get guidance the way we want it. So my understanding is different from yours and only God knows who is on the right path.