CAN ALLAH BE EVERYWHERE
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Is it you the creator who creates your things in you or things create in you themselves by themselves?
Who creats evil? or is it uncreated? Or evil exist by itself since ever? Or did Iblees create evil himself? Or each person creates it by him or herself? Or there is market or a self help where we can get the evil a use it and God arranges for that evil that WE choose to have such and such consequences.
I am afraid that we mix in this a lot of moral questions that we should apply to ourselves, but that we do not stop there and apply those moral questions to God.
We do not dare say that "bad" and "evil" come from God because God must be "good" in for for Him not to have a bad image before us.
Again, the terms "evil" "bad" "wrong" are terms for human consumption. God gives us those terms for us to apply them to ourselves, not to Him.
God does no evil and no wrong, simply because He is the one who rules everything and ows no answer to anybody. The quail of understanding between right and wrong are ours, not His. Whatever He does IS. He makes things be, but for us He has made a different world and conscience in order for us to travel through this life being the beings He wanted us to be.
The moral question we pose ourselves is if God chooses and not us why are we to be punished? How can God, who says He is Just, equitable, even more, merciful, why would he punish us for doing precisely what He wanted.
But then that is where we must trust God that in fact He is merciful and just. He won't wrong anybody even by human standards, therefore evil wrong, bad, by human standards will be outweighed by justice and mercy.
It is those who say that hell is forever those who do not know what they say and speak about that which they do not know. Hell is part of the mercy, the purifying fire which will make finally everybody and everything return to -god which is our destiny as -god says time and again in hte Qur'an, God purifies and wants to purify us, and He Will purify us.
Salaam
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Peace FreedomStands, I was hoping for a yes or no answer
God bless
My post I wrote you a long thing and it blanked out as it does many times, and I clapped in frustration and I'm so irritated, EACH of that was the will of Allah, not just the browser crash, but my reaction in every detail
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and that it is He alone who causes to laugh and to weep;and not only that, but had that not have happened, then I would not have written what I did above apparently, and even this Allah willed to be written, instead of the other thing, and though I am apparently in the immediate choosing and deciding each thing I say, it is Allah really creating all this and all these instances down to every detail including what I think, what I decide, what I perform, what happens, what happens then and then and then.
I explain these things in detail in some recent posts where I explain "the creation itself is the control"
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ARE YOU GETTING IT YET! ARE YOU GETTING IT YET!? I'M TRYING TO HELP YOU! ARE YOU PEOPLE BLIND, DEAF, AND DUMB?!
@ FreedomStands,
If you tried to convince me to follow you, then I suggest you to stop such effort.
I don't think that you are trustworthy
(you did not pass my judgment on you - on the matter of honesty).
I do not want to copy your path,
I think my Rabb does not command me to obey your commands,
and I have come to the understanding that my Creator commands me to leave people like you (Qur'an 7180).
So, I think it's better to cease communication between us in any kind of form,
unless you repent and obey Allah.
Adi?s.
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@ FreedomStands,
If you tried to convince me to follow you, then I suggest you to stop such effort.
I don't think that you are trustworthy
(you did not pass my judgment on you - on the matter of honesty).
I do not want to copy your path,
I think my Rabb does not command me to obey your commands,
and I have come to the understanding that my Creator commands me to leave people like you (Qur'an 7180).
So, I think it's better to cease communication between us in any kind of form,
unless you repent and obey Allah.
Adi?s.
It would be kind of you to teach me and assist me, out of compassion and justice, in what way I am disobeying Allah? This will also make it clear to everyone who sees what I write, what is wrong with it, so you'll be helping lots of people, not just me, while helping me.
I repent though, for all the wrongs I have done, but I need to be told also what I am saying wrong that should be stopped?
That doesn't mean I won't argue a bit about it, the argument is for understanding.
It may be that something good for you, you think is bad, and something bad for you, you think is good. For example, A.W. your friend may actually be talking shirk and you are listening when I am telling you to absolutely destroy shirk. The message is not always soft and bunny rabbits or what a person wants to hear or acknowledge. Allah for example prescribed fighting, and even urges repeatedly vying with one another in goodness.
But seriously, it is not fair how people say to me "wrong wrong" and then don't explain to me clearly what is wrong exactly and why and deal with my reasoning.
It is so cruel that people say "go away" or "you will go to hell" and not explain to me why, what am I saying or doing wrong?
Also, how have I been dishonest at all?
This is all so unfair. That the kicker continues to kick! Instead of kicking me, instruct me!
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Agreed. The reason for my clarification though is due to people imagining "space" or "places" as "real" or "actually there, actually spacious" and God "filling" it out, which is fine, but more accurately, there is no "space" or "dimensions" except that they are part of a layer of information we are experiencing, and God is the location of all of it, all of us, no space, no time, no shape, no size, no dimensions, nothing, just information, the way one can't pinpoint the actual thoughts we have or "what is the place of thoughts?" even though of course one would say today the brain, you don't actually see the thoughts directly in the brain, so the thoughts have no real "place" except as just direct information.
That is the state of everything though, there is no place but God. It might be too complex for people, so then the idea that God is inside and out of everything is fine also and true as well.
Well, it sounds our reality is not a reality ;D. But, what you said was right. What we saw was a "non-sense" technology that never ever we achieved, where you enter my bathroom, you saw a football stadium in there. I heard the universe is expanding, where inter galactic distance is farther away, I still cant imagine what kind of "technology" was that, is that even a technology?. Are we smalling, or it really get bigger? But one thing for sure, I understand why the universe became this way, because His nature was infinity. That is the nature He get since the begining of time. If made a circle, we can make a bigger circle, but He made it into the newest level, 3D universe. When you can make a bigger circle, you can rotate it on any direction. Infinity above infinity.
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Well, it sounds our reality is not a reality ;D. But, what you said was right. What we saw was a "non-sense" technology that never ever we achieved, where you enter my bathroom, you saw a football stadium in there. I heard the universe is expanding, where inter galactic distance is farther away, I still cant imagine what kind of "technology" was that, is that even a technology?. Are we smalling, or it really get bigger? But one thing for sure, I understand why the universe became this way, because His nature was infinity. That is the nature He get since the begining of time. If made a circle, we can make a bigger circle, but He made it into the newest level, 3D universe. When you can make a bigger circle, you can rotate it on any direction. Infinity above infinity.
Good stuff! Then the bigger joke is, it appears to people there is endless space, and the truth that there really is no "Space" at all except as "information that there is space/dimension" and "infinite space" when there is nothing but the "point" in all sense, and the "point" is Allah!
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Peace FreedomStands
There is no doubt you experience obvious choices set before you, you experience deliberation, you experience the choosing of one over another, and all that.
So you do believe we have free will?
Those are all experiences of information,
Support from Quran please!
If it is truly not God determining, then it is "Chance" determining,
Why interject chance when neither of us mentioned it?
I humbly suggest you actually examine post# 216 and comment
if you are able, we are not far apart in our conclusions!God bless
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Peace FreedomStands
So you do believe we have free will?
Support from Quran please!
Why interject chance when neither of us mentioned it?
I humbly suggest you actually examine post# 216 and comment
if you are able, we are not far apart in our conclusions!God bless
I am only stating things that are linguistically true.
To say "The Qur'an does not say we have experiences!" is just ridiculousness, and similarly if anyone says "what we see can not be called "information"" is ridiculous too. These are not specific words I am using. It is by definition "information" anything you experience. This is just common language. "The Qur'an uses Arabic! Speak to me in Classical Arabic Only!"
Haha, I know you are not saying that, but I think you might be misunderstanding my usage of ordinary words if you find them threatening at all.
I am saying "I am experiencing seeing a car" and "No! Where did the Qur'an ever say you experience seeing anything!"
There is no need for any confusion, since I don't think you've read my posts, and you might misunderstand anyway no matter what I say, I can skip the pussyfooting around and simply say to you whatever Allah wills is, and that means you determine nothing nor have any choice in what you seem to determine and choose. No free will whatsoever except in appearance.
Now the people will fully misunderstand, and that is the usual case, so what.
The human has no part in what they are, what they see, what occurs to them, it is all the creation of Allah and decisions of Allah, and that is it. If Allah creates a fish for the sea, so be it, if Allah creates an individual as an evildoer, a doer of evil, and throws them in hell too, that is all Allah, All is from God, Allah creates and chooses whatever.
"Information" is synonymous in my usage with "Creation" and so is "What you experience", what you are experiencing, what you are seeing, hearing, thinking, etc.
"Where did the Qur'an ever say these things!" I am not saying anything absurd for goodness sakes lol.
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No free will whatsoever except in appearance.
Now the people will fully misunderstand, and that is the usual case, so what.
The human has no part in what they are, what they see, what occurs to them, it is all
the creation of Allah and decisions of Allah, and that is it. If Allah creates a fish for the
sea, so be it, if Allah creates an individual as an evildoer, a doer of evil, and throws
them in hell too, that is all Allah, All is from God, Allah creates and chooses whatever."Information" is synonymous in my usage with "Creation" and so is "What you experience",
what you are experiencing, what you are seeing, hearing, thinking, etc.Common language is better to use to avoid misunderstanding,
so if information is the same as creation why not use creation?Aaahh finally, so you believe there is no free will, it took us awhile but we finally got there!
Post # 216 your analysis?
God bless you
peace
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Common language is better to use to avoid misunderstanding,
so if information is the same as creation why not use creation?Aaahh finally, so you believe there is no free will, it took us awhile but we finally got there! )
Post # 216 your analysis?
God bless you
peace
I read it. It is saying that people have a choice which God does not determine. God creates the basis, and the humans make the choices, thus it relies on "chance" since it can go this way or that way and "chance" determines and not God. So be it. As I have said before, I worship whatever is Ultimate, the Determiner. So if that is "Chance", then I worship Chance, not "God" who is not the determiner. Such a "God" is nothing but filth in my view.
Now if you could be so kind as to read these posts thoroughly, regarding my Lord, Chance
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607697.0
I don't worship Justice or Love, creations of God.
I use the word "information" because I am trying to instigate the people to realize that what they experience and see is just that. If I say "creation", people tend to think of objects, rather than the experience of objects being their own particular objects or units of information.
In other words, what your eyes see is not the bottle itself, it is information about the bottle that you experience.
Whatever you choose, according to scientific thinking, is determined by causal factors in a chain of causation.
Whatever you choose, according to ancient theological thinking in many cases at least, is determined by the Ultimate cause that creates everything, all your experiences which is why God is known as Qadirun and Jabar among other things.
If you would read those linked articles you would see how many quotes there are and this was a common idea. Only with Western Theology has omnibenevolence and "Free Will" obsession become prevalent and invaded Islam too, they don't realize the shirk involved and think it is harmless and think it is impiety to say God is the cause and determiner of everything, disregarding logic, common sense, the Qur'an, the other scriptures, even scientific stuff.
That doesn't mean you don't experience a sense of "volition" or "choice", that is part of what Allah is making you experience at the time and creating, it is not a system just left there and people are little gods willing this or that and God is running after them. Those quotes I've showed should make it clear to anyone who doesn't harbor shirk privately in their hearts that there is no way around this matter.
It is the big test and the "sorting" of who is who.
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The Grand Test is getting to know who you are.
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The Grand Test is getting to know who you are.
Yes
And as you start getting a better idea of who you are, that is, as you start dis-identifying yourself, your identity, will all mundane, material and external things in life, there will be an ever reduced need to defend your emotional ego and thus an ever decreasing need for war, racism, prejudice, nationalism and the like.
No wonder why it is the grand test. All problems in this world stems from us not knowing who and what we are. We have literally invented (or bought into) a fairly tale about ourselves and the world, and are ready to defend our version of this fairy tale with murder and lies.
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Splendid, Zulf. You know about the Kingdom. Such wisdom you built up.
When we know ourselves, we see that the body is a distraction with its whims and desires which God has no need for and it was meant as a delusion and a contradiction.
Merely testing the model of abstention will make one gradually realize this. Reform towards perfection. But also know that God is empathic and not a robot so everyone is also supposed to be humane, which is clear in the prophetic revelations.
I suggest people to try to entirely cut off sugar, coffee, tea and other drugs for a while and see the biological effect. The Spirit will feel better outwards. And try working on material desires, if someone asked for 100, give them 200, etc according to such model. If you are generous, then God will provide you for your loss if you only have faith.
Additionally, do not be angry/emotional. Control those feelings. Find the root in yourself that makes you angry and solve it. Your Foundation (God) will punish for any injustice incurred. If a "lifeless" person is bothering, seek patience against this, try to understand their ignorance and pity them. God will test you by intentionally sending things your way that may make you annoyed. Do not falter.
And remember it all comes down to the ego and what you like to defend, as you said.
Be well brother
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Splendid, Zulf. You know about the Kingdom. Such wisdom you built up.
When we know ourselves, we see that the body is a distraction with its whims and desires which God has no need for and it was meant as a delusion and a contradiction.
Merely testing the model of abstention will make one gradually realize this. Reform towards perfection. But also know that God is empathic and not a robot so everyone is also supposed to be humane, which is clear in the prophetic revelations.
I suggest people to try to entirely cut off sugar, coffee, tea and other drugs for a while and see the biological effect. The Spirit will feel better outwards. And try working on material desires, if someone asked for 100, give them 200, etc according to such model. If you are generous, then God will provide you for your loss if you only have faith.
Additionally, do not be angry/emotional. Control those feelings. Find the root in yourself that makes you angry and solve it. Your Foundation (God) will punish for any injustice incurred. If a "lifeless" person is bothering, seek patience against this, try to understand their ignorance and pity them. God will test you by intentionally sending things your way that may make you annoyed. Do not falter.
And remember it all comes down to the ego and what you like to defend, as you said.
Be well brother
Very good, both of you, and this post has all good stuff. Keep at speaking these sorts of things, they are very nice to see and hear.
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Zulf, I like reading your posts. Very wise and thoughtful )
Peace.
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I suggest people to try to entirely cut off sugar, coffee, tea and other drugs for a while and see the biological effect. The Spirit will feel better outwards. And try working on material desires, if someone asked for 100, give them 200, etc according to such model. If you are generous, then God will provide you for your loss if you only have faith.
This was my narrow experience. After I quit drugs I felt so depressed. I saw on one of the video, if our "reward" brain circuit kept activated, the "reward" receptor will conceal it self and reject stimulus. I think I understand what was happened to me. Normally, I should be given an anti-depressant, but since our culture not accepting such a thing, the medicine was stopped, and I felt like my life was missery. Its true. I still can say about good things about God, but deep inside, I complaining about how bad my life is. Each time I had good news, like salary increased, accepted in a prestige company, it doesnot give me any pleasure, I kept thinking that my life was misserable, and if I had problems, Im very depressed.
Our religious culture controlling everything, what you said, what you thought, everything, you're not allowed to complain, you're not allowed tell anything, and you have to make an impression everything was okay, so the story like me will never be known. But you have to know, beeing forced to quit drugs without any solution is hard, we're suffering here, or I am.
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Getting to the root of the problem is very important, Farabi. Depressions have a cause. One has also to be strong-willed.
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Getting to the root of the problem is very important, Farabi. Depressions have a cause. One has also to be strong-willed.
I should not say this but yes, I found the root, I need liquor ;D. I dont know, either I need liquor or I need to stop reading King David story.
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It is unfortunate that a good fighter like you would have this stain remaining but maybe it will be cleansed soon. Thank you for bringing up the points. Mislead is just the limitations of language, and yes "misleading" is a form of experience, people can see it, it is when one says to another something which is wrong and then it appears based on that they go down the wrong path, if such occurs the entire incident was Allah's doing.
You may want to read my battle with drfazl, since it goes through it multiple times
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604771.msg373332#msg373332
Saying "God does not rely on chance" does not mean anything if the implications of what is being said is "God relies on chance". If anyone says "it can go this way or that way, people have a choice of two possibilities and what they choose is not determined by God" then they are saying "since it can go this way or that way, it is left to chance", it has nothing to do with "pre-determined coordinates for each path and limited choice", it is simply the implications of what is being said. This somehow is very difficult for people to comprehend, because they genuinely say "God does not rely on chance" and follow it up with statements which translate to God relying on chance as the determiner. I know it is a hard thing to swallow or realize. For me, it is no problem to swallow or realize that God is the source of evil and everything absolutely whatever at all. The Qur'an is also quite explicit about it repeatedly, it is only the sense of piety in people perhaps that makes them go down the path of shirk to "spare God" what appears indecent to say, that God is the Supreme Evil, as its creator and dispenser, everything else is under the driving charge of God.
No, the "only way" is not "free will" because there can be "A man goes up to a woman and says to her there is a bridge on 5th street, and she experiences belief of this and goes to 5th street and finds no bridge, realizing she was misled" and all that written by and created by God. That is an "experience" of information, it has nothing to do with free will at all. On the immediate level I am not denying the appearance of choices, but the appearance of choices and what you do actually choose and how you choose it and every sequence of thoughts and every decision you make is all Allah doing it truly, you are nothing really in the story, just whatever Allah wills will be demonstrated and you will be made to know what Allah has created of you.
"Never any choice had they".
So don't be in love with the Satanic Western fallacies of "omnibenevolence" which leads to absolutely twisted thinking and justifications, or their other invention of "Free Will".
That is not to say that in your life you won't be faced with choices, and whatever you end up choosing it is actually Allah choosing for you, and that does not mean it is necessarily good for you either, Allah may intend you harm.
So nothing at all changes in your experience, it is just you acknowledge it is God's will, all things, everything is God's will, not "some things" or "passive will" or anything like that. or "I make the choice, I determine which pre-determined path" or any variety.
Cleanse the shirk, become like me, and you'll prosper, simple as that. You can choose to do so in the immediate level, in truth, you'll never be able to do it except only if God makes you do it.
"Saying "God does not rely on chance" does not mean anything if the implications of what is being said is "God relies on chance"."
How is God relying on "chance" if the actual direction of a persons life is determined by God and not by mans decisions?
"If anyone says "it can go this way or that way, people have a choice of two possibilities and what they choose is not determined by God" "
You are misunderstanding me ... In my example a man is confronted with a choice to either steal millions or not steal millions ... he chooses to steal millions thinking that his decision will guide the next trajectory of his life. THAT point of decision making (I believe) has been given to a mans own discretion. If you say that God cannot allow a man to decide, then you think that Gods abilities have limits. God may give and he may take whatever he wants.
Now ... If that mans future was determined on the actions that this man took, then he may well become a millionaire and live a great life. But whether he lives the life of a millionaire or is caught by the authorities and spends his life in jail is all dependent on God. The only thing this man could have control over was his decision at that 'point in time'. He does not control its outcome.
""Never any choice had they".
Please quote the verse and we can discuss.
"That is not to say that in your life you won't be faced with choices, and whatever you end up choosing it is actually Allah choosing for you, and that does not mean it is necessarily good for you either, Allah may intend you harm."
So you want to give a free pass to all the murderers and the rapists of this world. As per you, if someone slaughters a family, we should let them walk free, because .... hey, its not you doing it, its actually God, so no worries.
Why blame anyone for anything that they do in their life? Lets all demolish the Jails, and let all these men of God walk free to do as Allah wills. Quite the paradise on earth you want to create here.
If that is really what you believe in your life then I sincerely think that you need to re-examine your beliefs.