Bakka/Mecca
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See my edited post.
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This is an old example of the Quranic script of the Quran
http//www.lemessieetsonprophete.com/annexes/Kerr_Robert_origine-ecriture-coranique_fichiers/image004.gif
Compare this to the south-arabian script
http//www.lemessieetsonprophete.com/annexes/Kerr_Robert_origine-ecriture-coranique_fichiers/image006.gif
There is no such thing as a Quran in south-arabian script.
QED
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See my edited post.
This is what you posted in your edited post
I have no issue with you locating it in Arabia. I don't share your view however.
Is the Quran Arabic?
The Quran is Aramaic Arabic.
Arab means clear, eloquent.
The Arab language is a persian abbasid creation based on the aramaic in the Quran.
The A'arabs (ب means the closest and most visible neighbours.
There was no such thing as arabs in the region, there were Israelites and the ummyyins (non israelite ummy)The Quranic language is historically a language of the northern "Arabs" rather than those in the south.
When the muslim forces attacked the Byzantines and eventualyy captured Jerusalem there was no mention of Arabs, muslims or followers of Islam. They were referred to as Saracen.
Peace
I thought this post was about the Bekka and the Mecca mentioned in the Quran and how it could actually be the temple mount and not the Mecca of Arabia.
Looks like you want to move on to the topic of the book "The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran by Christoph Luxenberg".
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This is an old example of the Quranic script of the Quran
http//www.lemessieetsonprophete.com/annexes/Kerr_Robert_origine-ecriture-coranique_fichiers/image004.gif
Compare this to the south-arabian script
http//www.lemessieetsonprophete.com/annexes/Kerr_Robert_origine-ecriture-coranique_fichiers/image006.gif
There is no such thing as a Quran in south-arabian script.
QED
I would compare the scripts very thoroughly if I were a specialist in that field. But thankfully I am not, and neither are you.
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This is what you posted in your edited post
I thought this post was about the Bekka and the Mecca mentioned in the Quran and how it could actually be the temple mount and not the Mecca of Arabia.
Looks like you want to move on to the topic of the book "The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran by Christoph Luxenberg".
Well that has been a side theme in this thread as well, both have been mentioned before in earlier posts as kind of connected as part of making more sense of the Jerusalem qiblah thing at times it seems.
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You don't need to be an expert to know there is no ancient version of the Quran in south-arabian script. I'm not a follower of Luxenberg. But he raised some very relevant issues.
The language used in Quran is important to geolocating it. All the indicators point to Jordan/Palestine/Jerusalem rather than Mecca. Including the language, alphabet and script. The aramaic alphabet was simply not used in southern-arabia.
Luxenberg abused this argument to render the Quran as a collection of borrowed Jewish and Christian tales. Trying to disprove its authenticity. It's needless to say Luxenberg does not believe in the One God and does not accept Muhammad as a messenger.
Peace
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Well that has been a side theme in this thread as well, both have been mentioned before in earlier posts as kind of connected as part of making more sense of the Jerusalem qiblah thing at times it seems.
How does it make sense to connect Bekka with Jerusalum when their own interpreters of the bible clearly say that the Baca in the bible is reference to a bush that actually grows in "Mecca"?
If people want to totally re-interpret the whole arabian language and its history to fulfill their whims and desires over certain issues, then that obviously is something I cannot help them with.
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You don't need to be an expert to know there is no ancient version of the Quran in south-arabian script. I'm not a follower of Luxenberg. But he raised some very relevant issues.
The language used in Quran is important to geolocating it. All the indicators point to Jordan/Palestine/Jerusalem rather than Mecca. Including the language, alphabet and script. The aramaic alphabet was simply not used in southern-arabia.
Luxenberg abused this argument to render the Quran as a collection of borrowed Jewish and Christian tales. Trying to disprove its authenticity. It's needless to say Luxenberg does not believe in the One God and does not accept Muhammad as a messenger.
Peace
"You don't need to be an expert to know there is no ancient version of the Quran in south-arabian script. "
I don't know about you but this version of the Quran that (as per the actual experts in the field) could actually be dated to the time of the Prophet seems to have no such issues that you want it to have.
http//www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/22/oldest-quran-fragments-found-at-birmingham-university
And this was only found last month. Who knows how much else we will discover. But the point for you to ponder is that this version does not differ with our version of the Quran.
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Allat, Al Uzza, Manat.
These three goddesses, the daughters of Allah, are well documented in the Jordanian-Syrian epigraphy. However we do not find any trace in the Hijaz.
Al-Lat (Al-ilahat = "The Goddess" was a goddess known Thamoud?ens, Palmyr?ens and Nabataeans. It corresponded to Ham'llat in Safa?tes and Herodotus knew as the Alilat.
Al-'Uzza (Alizat = "Powerful" was a goddess known Nabataeans, D?danites and Lihyanites.
Manat (Maniya = "Destiny" corresponded to the goddess of the Nabataeans and Manawat Palmyriens.
Their father Allah (Al-Ilah = "the god" corresponded to Ilah god of the Nabataeans, safa?te, Thamoud?ens and Lihyanites, the god of the Aramaeans He and El god of the Canaanites.
All these deities take us north of Arabia and not in the Hejaz.Peace
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"You don't need to be an expert to know there is no ancient version of the Quran in south-arabian script. "
I don't know about you but this version of the Quran that (as per the actual experts in the field) could actually be dated to the time of the Prophet seems to have no such issues that you want it to have.
http//www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/22/oldest-quran-fragments-found-at-birmingham-university
And this was only found last month. Who knows how much else we will discover. But the point for you to ponder is that this version does not differ with our version of the Quran.
I don't know what you are trying to prove with that link. It is the aramaic alphabet in that Quran not the south arabian alphabet.
Peace
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"You don't need to be an expert to know there is no ancient version of the Quran in south-arabian script. "
I don't know about you but this version of the Quran that (as per the actual experts in the field) could actually be dated to the time of the Prophet seems to have no such issues that you want it to have.
http//www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/22/oldest-quran-fragments-found-at-birmingham-university
And this was only found last month. Who knows how much else we will discover. But the point for you to ponder is that this version does not differ with our version of the Quran.
Maybe they will. At that point I may reconsider my opinion. But so far all the evidence points to North Arabia not the Hejaz.
Peace
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"You don't need to be an expert to know there is no ancient version of the Quran in south-arabian script. "
I don't know about you but this version of the Quran that (as per the actual experts in the field) could actually be dated to the time of the Prophet seems to have no such issues that you want it to have.
http//www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/22/oldest-quran-fragments-found-at-birmingham-university
And this was only found last month. Who knows how much else we will discover. But the point for you to ponder is that this version does not differ with our version of the Quran.
Are you by any chance of Arab origin?
Peace
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Allat, Al Uzza, Manat.
These three goddesses, the daughters of Allah, are well documented in the Jordanian-Syrian epigraphy. However we do not find any trace in the Hijaz.
Al-Lat (Al-ilahat = "The Goddess" was a goddess known Thamoud?ens, Palmyr?ens and Nabataeans. It corresponded to Ham'llat in Safa?tes and Herodotus knew as the Alilat.
Al-'Uzza (Alizat = "Powerful" was a goddess known Nabataeans, D?danites and Lihyanites.
Manat (Maniya = "Destiny" corresponded to the goddess of the Nabataeans and Manawat Palmyriens.
Their father Allah (Al-Ilah = "the god" corresponded to Ilah god of the Nabataeans, safa?te, Thamoud?ens and Lihyanites, the god of the Aramaeans He and El god of the Canaanites.
All these deities take us north of Arabia and not in the Hejaz.Peace
So these deities could only exists in the north of Arabia but not in the south? Care to give your reasons for this?
Muslim recorded history states quite unequivocally that they did exist as deities in the Hejaz as well.
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I don't know what you are trying to prove with that link. It is the aramaic alphabet in that Quran not the south arabian alphabet.
Peace
Well you can believe what you want of cource. This is after all a "free-minds" website. Just the fact that you know the Arabs language better than them simply puts me in your awe.
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So these deities could only exists in the north of Arabia but not in the south? Care to give your reasons for this?
Muslim recorded history states quite unequivocally that they did exist as deities in the Hejaz as well.
Do you have non-hadith sources claiming those deities were worshipped at Mecca at the time of Qurans revelation?
Peace
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Are you by any chance of Arab origin?
Peace
Far from it. Are you?
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Well you can believe what you want of cource. This is after all a "free-minds" website. Just the fact that you know the Arabs language better than them simply puts me in your awe.
I'm not claiming to understand the Arab language better than anyone. In fact I'm sure I'm quite mediocre if not a total amateur. But what I do know is that there is no hard evidence whatsoever of the Hejaz origins of either the Qurans script, language, places nor names it refers to.
Peace
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Far from it. Are you?
No I'm not.
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Do you have non-hadith sources claiming those deities were worshipped at Mecca at the time of Qurans revelation?
Peace
Do you have any non-hadith sources saying anything else about the Hejaz? As far as I know (and what experts on the topic believe) almost all that region was converted to Islam during the lifetime of the Prophet.
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"A question of geography
The suspicion that the location is doctrinally inspired is reinforced by the fact that the Qur'an describes the polytheist opponents as agriculturalists who cultivated wheat, grapes, olives, and date palms. Wheat, grapes and olives are the three staples of the Mediterranean; date palms take us southwards, but Mecca was not suitable for any kind of agriculture, and one could not possibly have produced olives there.
In addition, the Qur'an twice describes its opponents as living in the site of a vanished nation, that is to say a town destroyed by God for its sins. There were many such ruined sites in northwest Arabia. The prophet frequently tells his opponents to consider their significance and on one occasion remarks, with reference to the remains of Lot's people, that "you pass by them in the morning and in the evening". This takes us to somewhere in the Dead Sea region. Respect for the traditional account has prevailed to such an extent among modern historians that the first two points have passed unnoticed until quite recently, while the third has been ignored. The exegetes said that the Quraysh passed by Lot's remains on their annual journeys to Syria, but the only way in which one can pass by a place in the morning and the evening is evidently by living somewhere in the vicinity."