Is Surah al-M??idah contradicting itself?
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Peace runninglikezebras you see contradictions while I see cohesion
I am sure while you have doubts, I believe in the whole Quran, while you
are not sure about parts of it, your questions are not uneasy, but you
make them uneasy, such is the nature of doubt.God bless
I'm not in doubt about the Qurans message. The message I fully accept. I distrust some of those who have written down this version of Quran we have on paper these days.
My faith in God, the messengers is still rock solid. Don't you worry about me. In contrast to some, my faith is not determined by the divinity of a paper printed book written down by humans.
ps Good for you if you can accept the concept of nazarenes who aren't arrogant, are affectionate to the believers and at the same time ridiculing and mocking, being hostile to the believers. I must say that's quite an achievement.
Peace
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In order to read the Qur'an one does not need to become an idiot forsaking thought, logic and reflection and taking the Qur'an as if it was some sort of hurdle where you are out to trick and catch the unware. I do nto think the Qur'an bothers with that kind of people.
If one wants to find fault rather than "follow the best", one will find fault, no worry, plenty of it. If one is out to follow the best, that is what one will find, the best.
There is nothing wrong with the Qur'an such as it is. And it is slander to say that because you one is out to find fault that it has been trampled with.
If it is so for somebody, so drop it, you do not need it. Seek some other toy for yourself. Find a doll to make dresses for it, and make it wear models. The Qur'an is not a toy and is in no need of having dreses cut.
Salaam
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What is slanderous? Those who added their own words to Quran and altered it or those exposing their crime? What about those defending those who altered it and are still calling it 'entirely' from God despite the evidence of contradiction that could have only originated from human changes?
If I did not think the Quran is valuable I wouldn't go through as much effort as to researching it and trying to find out its exact meaning.
My critical mind does not accept a definition of nazarenes who are at the same time mocking, ridiculing believers, being hostile to them and at the same time having most affection with the believers and not being arrogant.
If your non-critical mind allows you to accept such definitions then I'm sure you accept many more irrational ideas and contradicting statements.
Peace
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Bring proof. You know what a proof is? Bring proof. Your opinion is no proof. Your opinion is just proof of your opini?n nothing else. That you opine this or that is proof of nothing. If you do not bring proof you are slandering.
Salaam
Didn't you read the OP at all? One can hardly say I did not bring proof, given the length of the article and many source references.
I still have to see one person proving it is NOT contradicting, including you.
Peace
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I think I have demonstrated how and why it contradicts on multiple occasions.
You have called me an idiot and deluded so far, what's next huruf?
Peace
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ps Good for you if you can accept the concept of nazarenes who aren't arrogant, are affectionate to the believers and at the same time ridiculing and mocking, being hostile to the believers. I must say that's quite an achievement.
Peace runninglikezebras I think you have your sarcasm misdirected,
I never stated the above, why not try making a contribution to the
spiritual growth of forum members instead of making contradictions that
exist only in your mind.God bless
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I'm not here to help anyone grow spiritually. I'm not a messenger nor a messiah. I'm just an average joe. Thinking critically and wanting to debate these matters with others.
Seems to me you have only one agenda, being to silence me as much as you can. It will be in vain though, I will continue posting on this forum - I'm not breaking any rules.
Peace
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I'm not here to help anyone grow spiritually.
Maybe that is why you pick such a topic?
Seems to me you have only one agenda, being to silence me as much as you can.
It will be in vain though, I will continue posting on this forum - I'm not breaking any rules.Peace
Peace runninglikezebras, no I do not want to silence you, I find you
entertaining, wrong about the contradictions but entertaining
nonetheless.God bless
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Nobody will silence you, what do you say, not even under water will anybody silence you. You are very funny.
But you see, if you do not make sense, I will not say otherwise. Why should I?
Salaam
How about some counterevidence? So far both you and hawk99 have only been saying my thesis is wrong without bringing any substantial argument. Not one quranic verse, not one reference. No explanation of how my logic is supposed to be flawed. I'll guess the reader will just have to take their word for it. Just like many take the words of the imams for truths without any explanation, nor rational argumentation.
Peace
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But my dear it is you who is caliming something, you the one who has to prove it, you have to bring evidence but all you have brought is opinion, not proof. That you understand things twistedly is no reason for anybody else to do likewise. It is your problem. You do have a problem. Do not pretend that because you have a problem everybody should have the same problem. Obviously we do not have it. Seek some more problem havers and enjoy with them. What else. On the other hand you do not seem nto know how to read the Qur'an. You seem to think that the Qur'an should be careful to underline, repeat and point out every little single thing that ANYBODY in the world might put his or her finger on some more explanation. But, if anything, you should know by now that the Qur'an is very concise, very ellyptical and that it does not throw words around just to fill in space just to preclude that any vocational suspicioner might get a hold for a little suspicion. God does nto seem to care to allay undue suspition. It is not He who is going to loose anything, in case you had not thought.
Salaam
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I guess you are just here for the name-calling then, huruf?
Please take a hike and let people interested in it debate it using rational arguments. I'm personally done with your constant insults and personal attacks that are totally off-topic.
Peace
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Nope you are always invited and welcome to logical argumentation and critical, logical debunking of this thesis.
But please keep the attacks on my person to yourself. It's not that I'm offended by them but you are harming yourself by doing so.
Peace
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Well you are wrong to think this is only my opinion. The work (doctorate) these opinions are based on can be ordered online, unfortunately so far only in french
http//www.librairietequi.com/A-28885-le-messie-et-son-prophete-aux-origines-de-l-islam-t1-studia-arabica-i.aspx
http//www.librairietequi.com/A-28886-le-messie-et-son-prophete-aux-origines-de-l-islam-t2-studia-arabica-ii.aspxHow is your french huruf? For me it's my second native language.
Summary in English can be found here
http//www.lemessieetsonprophete.com/annexes/presentation-en.htm
Wiki about the author
https//fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89douard-Marie_Gallez
Peace
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Peace runninglikezebras.
Now follow this "logically"
1- you claim 557 is verses apart from 551.
I claim 551 and 557 is the same subject addressing the same believers, the same dialogue ,where 557 confirms which Jews and nasara .Only those that mock and ridicule the believers.
Is this not logical/read again 551 onwards and see for yourself.
2-You claim 557 is abrogating 551.
I say the same conversation/subject in few different numbered verses does not mean one verse is abrogating the other verse,it is a continuous theme that is clarifying the context. Qoran has many examples where the context is clarified in the verse/s after it,when it is the same subject.
3- you claim 582 is contradicting 551.
I say 582 is talking about a different nasara , read and see how the subject now changes to those nasara that are not arrogant and when they hear the revelation of GOD you see their eyes flooding with tears... As in
583
When they hear what was revealed to the messenger, you see their eyes flooding with tears as they recognize the truth therein, and they say, "Our Lord, we have believed, so count us among the witnesses.584
"Why should we not believe in God, and in the truth that has come to us, and hope that our Lord may admit us with the righteous people?"Simple and logical to me. No abrogation and no contradiction.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace runninglikezebras.
Now follow this "logically"
1- you claim 557 is verses apart from 551.
I claim 551 and 557 is the same subject addressing the same believers, the same dialogue ,where 557 confirms which Jews and nasara .Only those that mock and ridicule the believers.
Is this not logical/read again 551 onwards and see for yourself.
2-You claim 557 is abrogating 551.
I say the same conversation/subject in few different numbered verses does not mean one verse is abrogating the other verse,it is a continuous theme that is clarifying the context. Qoran has many examples where the context is clarified in the verse/s after it,when it is the same subject.
3- you claim 582 is contradicting 551.
I say 582 is talking about a different nasara , read and see how the subject now changes to those nasara that are not arrogant and when they hear the revelation of GOD you see their eyes flooding with tears... As in
583
When they hear what was revealed to the messenger, you see their eyes flooding with tears as they recognize the truth therein, and they say, "Our Lord, we have believed, so count us among the witnesses.584
"Why should we not believe in God, and in the truth that has come to us, and hope that our Lord may admit us with the righteous people?"Simple and logical to me. No abrogation and no contradiction.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Peace good logic if you have time check out these ayats of criterion
Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because
of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous
toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those
who act justly.Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion
and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - that
you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is
those who are the wrongdoers.God bless
peace