Quran-Only Women Must Shave Their Heads for Hajj
-
Israfeel,
What kind of conclusion do you seek?
That Allah cares about those parameters? Why would it be disallowed for a woman to cut her hair if she is going to hide her head anyways in your interpretation? And what if her husband likes her in short hair, is that disallowed for her to have? It seems like misogynist conjecture you are talking about.
"Western" people often shave pubic and armpit hair, and it is usually due to reasons of comfort, and also some hygienic advantages. Armpit hair seems to increase sweating under arms since it logically increases insulation. Same goes for pubic hair, it may be uncomfortable to have excessive hair there.
Have faith
-
What you quoted is not a Hadith. Nor does it say that shaving head is mandatory for women. Why did you lie?
The Hadith says
"
Abdullah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) said that the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) prohibited a free woman to cut her hair more than shoulder length (Muj'am al-Saghir of Imam Tabarani)
So this is a clear Hadith of our Prophet (peace be upon him) that is forbidden women to have short hair, let alone shaving their head. A woman must have at least shoulder length hair. The Hanafis forbid a woman to cut any of her hair unless it becomes exceedingly long, meaning beyond her waist.
Regarding shaving the head for women
It is not permitted for a woman to shave her head except in cases of necessity, because of the hadeeth narrated by al-Tirmidhi and al-Nisaa?i from ?Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) according to which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade women to shave their heads. Al-Khallaal reported from Qutaadah from ?Ikrimah who said ?The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade women to shave their heads.? Al-Hasan said ?This is mutilation.? Al-Athram said ?I heard Abu ?Abd-Allaah asking about a woman who was unable to take care of her hair properly and whether she should remove her hair according to the hadeeth of Maymoonah. He asked, ?Why does she want to remove it?? He said, ?She cannot put oil on it or anything else that will make it look better, and she has a bad infestation of lice.? He said, ?If it is the matter of necessity, I hope that there is nothing wrong with doing so.?? And Allaah knows best.
Now let me turn the tables.
Where does the Qur'an say it is forbidden for a woman to shave her head? You (Neptin) already admitted that the Qur'an does not forbid women from shaving her head. Your friend Huruf agreed with you.
Hadith clearly forbids it.
Here's another question which Qur'anists try to avoid. Does the Qur'an forbid men and women from growing out their pubic and armpit hair?
Traditional Sunni Muslims universally remove the hair of armpits and pubic region as it is commanded by Hadith. But there is no such commandment in the Qur'an. Does it mean Qur'anist keep pubic and armpit hair like Western and Hindu people?
Why am I neptin friend but I am not your friend? ?Because I happen to agree with something neptin has said but have not agreed with you?
That is indeed remarcable and a hint of your mental or emotional make up. Automatically you distribute friends around your agreement or disagreement with you.
If hadith uber alles results in that kind of mental make up you are a very bad propaganda for it.
Why would God safeguard something that is so elastic as to include unauthentic stuff together with doubtful and together with authentic according to human estimation?
Haidth is nto a single work like Qur'an, it is a throw all in drawer and by its very nature unguranteeable. So in order to believe int heir authority one must bet.
I do not think you believe yourself in what you say. I think you come here to seek to enrage us with fantastic nonsense. I do not think you are a bonafide believer in hadith, but you are against islam in general and you seek to discredit it in general by bringing up nonsense after nonsense. Even people who respect hadith do not bring up such nonsense, they stick to certain rules and they do not attack Qur'an as you do.
Salaam, my friend
-
Is this guy israfeel an authority on Hindu and western culture to conclude they grow armpit hair? Will israfeel not shave his pubic hair if not told by his scriptures? Why should quran say anything about pubic hair? Is that the purpose of the message? This thread is going bonkers with stupidity!
-
What you quoted is not a Hadith. Nor does it say that shaving head is mandatory for women. Why did you lie?
The Hadith says
"
Abdullah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) said that the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) prohibited a free woman to cut her hair more than shoulder length (Muj'am al-Saghir of Imam Tabarani)
So this is a clear Hadith of our Prophet (peace be upon him) that is forbidden women to have short hair, let alone shaving their head. A woman must have at least shoulder length hair. The Hanafis forbid a woman to cut any of her hair unless it becomes exceedingly long, meaning beyond her waist.
Regarding shaving the head for women
It is not permitted for a woman to shave her head except in cases of necessity, because of the hadeeth narrated by al-Tirmidhi and al-Nisaa?i from ?Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) according to which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade women to shave their heads. Al-Khallaal reported from Qutaadah from ?Ikrimah who said ?The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade women to shave their heads.? Al-Hasan said ?This is mutilation.? Al-Athram said ?I heard Abu ?Abd-Allaah asking about a woman who was unable to take care of her hair properly and whether she should remove her hair according to the hadeeth of Maymoonah. He asked, ?Why does she want to remove it?? He said, ?She cannot put oil on it or anything else that will make it look better, and she has a bad infestation of lice.? He said, ?If it is the matter of necessity, I hope that there is nothing wrong with doing so.?? And Allaah knows best.
Now let me turn the tables.
Where does the Qur'an say it is forbidden for a woman to shave her head? You (Neptin) already admitted that the Qur'an does not forbid women from shaving her head. Your friend Huruf agreed with you.
Hadith clearly forbids it.
Here's another question which Qur'anists try to avoid. Does the Qur'an forbid men and women from growing out their pubic and armpit hair?
Traditional Sunni Muslims universally remove the hair of armpits and pubic region as it is commanded by Hadith. But there is no such commandment in the Qur'an. Does it mean Qur'anist keep pubic and armpit hair like Western and Hindu people?
http//islamweb.net/ehajj/index.php?page=article&id=162059
"Peace".
I recommend the above link for you. According to your Imams, Women may not shave completely like men but they must cut out of their hair. Go confirm from any one. If you want to preach here, at least you should be well grounded in your theology.Use your brain for a second, how can an act forbidden during a rite become an essential phase that complete that same rite? As Pazazu said, the rabbit hole goes very deep.
-
-
...the only rule regarding hair during Hajj is that people (males and females) shouldn't cut their hair while observing Hajj
The only rule is there is no rule.
please read Chapter 2 Verse 196 carefully
I agree, and that applies to you also. Here is an article to struggle with
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-2196-critical-thinking.htmlAre you aware of anyone who has answered the questions therein? I'm not.
-
The only rule is there is no rule.
I agree, and that applies to you also. Here is an article to struggle with
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-2196-critical-thinking.htmlAre you aware of anyone who has answered the questions therein? I'm not.
Hmmm
so what is the correct meaning of this verse according to you (the translation) )
-
This shaving of the head is a Judeo-Nazarene tradition
Numbers 6 New International Version (NIV)
The Nazirite
6 The Lord said to Moses, 2 ?Speak to the Israelites and say to them ?If a man or woman wants to make a special vow, a vow of dedication to the Lord as a Nazirite, 3 they must abstain from wine and other fermented drink and must not drink vinegar made from wine or other fermented drink. They must not drink grape juice or eat grapes or raisins. 4 As long as they remain under their Nazirite vow, they must not eat anything that comes from the grapevine, not even the seeds or skins.5 ??During the entire period of their Nazirite vow, no razor may be used on their head. They must be holy until the period of their dedication to the Lord is over; they must let their hair grow long.
6 ??Throughout the period of their dedication to the Lord, the Nazirite must not go near a dead body. 7 Even if their own father or mother or brother or sister dies, they must not make themselves ceremonially unclean on account of them, because the symbol of their dedication to God is on their head. 8 Throughout the period of their dedication, they are consecrated to the Lord.
9 ??If someone dies suddenly in the Nazirite?s presence, thus defiling the hair that symbolizes their dedication, they must shave their head on the seventh day?the day of their cleansing. 10 Then on the eighth day they must bring two doves or two young pigeons to the priest at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 11 The priest is to offer one as a sin offering and the other as a burnt offering to make atonement for the Nazirite because they sinned by being in the presence of the dead body. That same day they are to consecrate their head again. 12 They must rededicate themselves to the Lord for the same period of dedication and must bring a year-old male lamb as a guilt offering. The previous days do not count, because they became defiled during their period of dedication.
13 ??Now this is the law of the Nazirite when the period of their dedication is over. They are to be brought to the entrance to the tent of meeting. 14 There they are to present their offerings to the Lord a year-old male lamb without defect for a burnt offering, a year-old ewe lamb without defect for a sin offering, a ram without defect for a fellowship offering, 15 together with their grain offerings and drink offerings, and a basket of bread made with the finest flour and without yeast?thick loaves with olive oil mixed in, and thin loaves brushed with olive oil.
16 ??The priest is to present all these before the Lord and make the sin offering and the burnt offering. 17 He is to present the basket of unleavened bread and is to sacrifice the ram as a fellowship offering to the Lord, together with its grain offering and drink offering.
18 ??Then at the entrance to the tent of meeting, the Nazirite must shave off the hair that symbolizes their dedication. They are to take the hair and put it in the fire that is under the sacrifice of the fellowship offering.
19 ??After the Nazirite has shaved off the hair that symbolizes their dedication, the priest is to place in their hands a boiled shoulder of the ram, and one thick loaf and one thin loaf from the basket, both made without yeast. 20 The priest shall then wave these before the Lord as a wave offering; they are holy and belong to the priest, together with the breast that was waved and the thigh that was presented. After that, the Nazirite may drink wine.
21 ??This is the law of the Nazirite who vows offerings to the Lord in accordance with their dedication, in addition to whatever else they can afford. They must fulfill the vows they have made, according to the law of the Nazirite.??
Removed from its nazarene origins and context, not one of the verses in Quran about hajj is clear.
-
Not only this buddy, there may be several other verses. But I believe that Quran is a wise book (31-2).
"He gives wisdom to whoever He wills and whoever has been given wisdom has been given great good. But no one pays heed except the people of intelligence." (Qur'an 2269)
I therefore pray for wisdom and understanding of Quran for all of us.
Cheers
This shaving of the head is a Judeo-Nazarene tradition
Removed from its nazarene origins and context, not one of the verses in Quran about hajj is clear.
-
In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
According to the Qur'an-Only philosophy, which errantly rejects the Sunnah and Hadith as an authority in matters of Religion and religious practice, the text of the Qur'an alone is sufficient to establish all the rules, regulations and customs dealing with religious practice, including the Hajj (Pilgrimage to Mecca).
The following is a translation of the Qur'an verse rendered by Edip Yuksel, Layth Saleh al-Shaiban, and Martha Schulte-Nafeh, in the Quran A Reformist Translation. It is this English translation which is preferred by the Qur'anist tendency
Complete the Pilgrimage and the visit for God. But, if you are prevented, then make what is affordable of donation, and do not shave your heads until the donation reaches its destination
As you can plainly see, the verse has made no apparent distinction between males and females. All of those who undertake the pilgrimage are instructed to shave their heads once "the donation reaches its destination".
The question is, do Qur'anist women practically act upon this verse of the Qur'an when they undertake the pilgrimage? According to the principles of their own faith, they must.
A Qur'anist/Qur'an-Only Woman Acting upon the Qur'anic Commandment Concerning Hajj/Pilgrimage
A Qur'anist/Qur'an-Only Woman getting her head shaved
In fact, nowhere in the actual text of the Qur'an is there any explicit prohibition against woman shaving their heads.
It is only from the Hadith and Sunnah (which traditionalist Muslims follow) that there are references to prohibition of women shaving their heads or even cutting their hair short. However, Qur'anist women are apparently free to shave their heads and go bald. In fact, they are commanded to do so specifically according to the Qur'an-Only philosophy when it comes to offering the Hajj/Pilgrimage.
A very good thought provoking topic Israfeel! I have nothing further to add...
-
A very good thought provoking topic Israfeel! I have nothing further to add...
Peace, how would she (or anyone) shave and shorten her head?
4827 ... safe having shaved rusakum/heads yours? and shortened not fearing
2279 so if not thou do ye of so take notice of in war from the god and messenger his and if repent you so for you rusu/heads (prestige) wealth yours not thou wronging and not thou wronged
-
Peace, how would she (or anyone) shave and shorten her head?
4827 ... safe having shaved rusakum/heads yours? and shortened not fearing
It's a good point, also mentioned here
From
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html4827 Certainly, God has confirmed His messenger's vision*** with truth/reality, surely you (plural) will enter al masjid al haram, if God wills, securing/trusting, unburdening/relieving your chiefs/representatives****, and restraining/relinquishing not fearing. So, He knew what you did not know, and He made besides that a victory near/close.
4828 He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the system/obligation of truth, so that it would expose all other systems. And God is sufficient as a witness.
*Arabic AAani is a preposition and can mean from, of, for, about, concerning.
**implies they are all mixed together. One possible meaning of MKK is "crowding" hence the rendition above (Ref one, two, three). Could also be a reference to 833.
*** Arabic 'al ruya' (dream/vision), see analysis of 171-7 and 1760
**** see discussion of 2196 above. Many translators interpolate "hair" and imply the "wa/and" which follows means "or" to make their rendition fit better. -
Excellent question, but before I answer, what were your thoughts with regard to the questions in the article.
So , yes ) they are critical questions especially the first one (I didn't check the links in the article because I want to have a chance to discuss the issue with you) , can you help me to have a better understanding about the verse ?
-
You can read my view here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html2196 And complete/fulfill the HaJJ/feast/symposium and the visit for God. So if you are prevented/held-back then (give) what is easy of the offering and do not relieve/unburden your chiefs/representatives (of this duty) until the offering reaches its permitted/lawful place**, so whoever from among you was sick or with/by him harm/annoyance from his chief/representative then a ransom from abstinence/fast or charity or observance. So when safe/secure (i.e. in the designated vicinty) then whoever benefited/enjoyed by/with the visit to the HaJJ/symposium then (give) what is easy of the offering so whoever couldn't find then an abstinence/fast three days during the HaJJ/symposium and seven when you returned, this is ten complete. That is for one whose people are not there/present (at) the inviolable time of acknowledgement and be conscious of God and know that God is severe in punishment.
To my knowledge, it is the only understanding that works with the grammar, classical Arabic meanings, Quranic cross-reference, logic, practicality, and eliminates all the problems discussed in the article
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-2196-critical-thinking.htmlThat is quite a bold claim, and if true, the consequences would be significant. I have not seen evidence to the contrary.
-
You can read my view here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html2196 And complete/fulfill the HaJJ/feast/symposium and the visit for God. So if you are prevented/held-back then (give) what is easy of the offering and do not relieve/unburden your chiefs/representatives (of this duty) until the offering reaches its permitted/lawful place**, so whoever from among you was sick or with/by him harm/annoyance from his chief/representative then a ransom from abstinence/fast or charity or observance. So when safe/secure (i.e. in the designated vicinty) then whoever benefited/enjoyed by/with the visit to the HaJJ/symposium then (give) what is easy of the offering so whoever couldn't find then an abstinence/fast three days during the HaJJ/symposium and seven when you returned, this is ten complete. That is for one whose people are not there/present (at) the inviolable time of acknowledgement and be conscious of God and know that God is severe in punishment.
To my knowledge, it is the only understanding that works with the grammar, classical Arabic meanings, Quranic cross-reference, logic, practicality, and eliminates all the problems discussed in the article
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-2196-critical-thinking.htmlThat is quite a bold claim, and if true, the consequences would be significant. I have not seen evidence to the contrary.
Thank you
-
-
In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
According to the Qur'an-Only philosophy, which errantly rejects the Sunnah and Hadith as an authority in matters of Religion and religious practice, the text of the Qur'an alone is sufficient to establish all the rules, regulations and customs dealing with religious practice, including the Hajj (Pilgrimage to Mecca).
The following is a translation of the Qur'an verse rendered by Edip Yuksel, Layth Saleh al-Shaiban, and Martha Schulte-Nafeh, in the Quran A Reformist Translation. It is this English translation which is preferred by the Qur'anist tendency
Complete the Pilgrimage and the visit for God. But, if you are prevented, then make what is affordable of donation, and do not shave your heads until the donation reaches its destination
As you can plainly see, the verse has made no apparent distinction between males and females. All of those who undertake the pilgrimage are instructed to shave their heads once "the donation reaches its destination".
The question is, do Qur'anist women practically act upon this verse of the Qur'an when they undertake the pilgrimage? According to the principles of their own faith, they must.
A Qur'anist/Qur'an-Only Woman Acting upon the Qur'anic Commandment Concerning Hajj/Pilgrimage
A Qur'anist/Qur'an-Only Woman getting her head shaved
In fact, nowhere in the actual text of the Qur'an is there any explicit prohibition against woman shaving their heads.
It is only from the Hadith and Sunnah (which traditionalist Muslims follow) that there are references to prohibition of women shaving their heads or even cutting their hair short. However, Qur'anist women are apparently free to shave their heads and go bald. In fact, they are commanded to do so specifically according to the Qur'an-Only philosophy when it comes to offering the Hajj/Pilgrimage.
this makes islam look at lot like the matrix movies but i do agree women must shave their heads as well as men i can't disprove this but the quran was sent as an instruction to men, can you reflute that reasoning?
-
I think its more towards what is acceptable in a culture. Women shaving heads is awkward and hence not desirable I guess.
Women are supposed to be with hair to match with their beauty in my opinion, again it is entirely respective to the surrounding culture
and Physical Islam is affected by the arab culture where it is not common for women to shave their heads.I would like to talk about something else off topic... are there other forums similar to freeminds but where folks are more interactive, I mean they talk audio, they can add on Skype and talk as group on whatsapp. I believe there is a point when you need to have a free conversation with some one if you wanna learn past some critical point. I wish I can have a communication with some of the folks from here using audio medium.
Cheers -
The Quran is addressed to men and the hajj at al masjid al haram is a thing of the past.
