An Article Against Qur'an Alone - Let Us Discuss It
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http//www.call-to-monotheism.com/refuting_the_argument_that_the_qur_an_was_the_only_revelation_that_the_prophet_received_from_allah_
Refuting The Argument That The Qur'an Was The Only Revelation That The Prophet Received From Allah
by
Bassam Zawadi
Quranites argue that the Prophet (peace be upon him) did not receive any revelation besides the Qur'an.
First it would be noteworthy to show that Prophets in the past did receive revelations from God but they were not included in any book.
Shaykh Shahidullah Faridi says...
There are numerous incidents related in the Qur'an about Prophets receiving revelation as a process quite apart from the revelation of Books. For instance, Allah said to Adam
O Adam, dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden (235),
and their Lord called them
Did I not forbid you . . . (722).
In the case of Noah
And it was inspired in Noah No one of thy folk will believe save him who hath believed already (1136); Load therein two of every kind (1111); O Noah, he is not one of thy household (1146).
Allah states of Abraham
That is our argument, which we gave to Abraham against his folk (683); O Abraham, forsake this (1126);
Jacob said
I do indeed scent the presence of Joseph, and when he retrieved his eyesight, he said
Did I not say to you that I know from Allah that which you know not? (1294 ff.).
In the case of Joseph
We inspired in him thou wilt tell them of this deed of theirs when they know not (1215).
Allah called to Moses in the valley of Tuwa
O Moses, verily I am thy Lord (2012),
and then
. . . hearken to what is inspired.
Again
We inspired Moses saying Take away my slaves by night (2077).
These are only some of the many instances which can be given, in all of which reference is made to revelations from Allah to the Prophets on which have nothing to do with the revelations of Books. (Shaykh Shahidullah Faridi, Fallacies of Anti Hadith Arguments, Source)
Dr Ahmad Shafaat says...
Then we have the important fact that a number of religious practices assumed in the Qur'an are not instituted by it. Here are several examples
- O believers! When the call is sounded for the prayer on the day of congregation, hasten unto remembrance of God and leave trade. This is good for you in case you do know (629).
Nowhere the Qur'an tells us about "the day of congregation" or of any special prayers on that day or of any "call" for prayers. The Qur'an assumes that such practices have already been instituted and is making the attendance of the congregational prayer on this day obligatory. It is safe to assume that the function of instituting these prayers was performed by the Prophet without any Qur'anic revelation. This clearly implies a role higher than that of a mere delivery man... (Dr. Ahmad Shafaat, The Sacred Hadith Project, Chapter 2 The Message and the Messenger, Source)
Mufti Taqi Usmani gives detailed evidence from the Quran showing that the Quran is not the only revelation sent from God to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
Two Kinds of Revelation
It follows from the foregoing discussion that the revelation the Holy Prophet received from All?h is of two different kinds
(i) the revelation of the Qur'?n, the Holy Book, named in the Islamic terminology as al-wahy al-matluww (the recited revelation, i.e. the revelation which can be recited in the prayers). This kind of revelation is confined to the verses of the Holy Qur'?n and is written verbally in its folds.
(ii) the revelation received by the Holy Prophet from time to time to let him know the pleasure of All?h in day-to-day affairs and the details of the principles laid down in the Holy Qur'?n with their correct interpretation. This kind of revelation is called al-wahy ghair al-matluww (the unrecited revelation). This kind of revelation is not conveyed to the people verbally. It has been demonstrated through the sayings and acts of the Holy Prophet.
The Second Kind of Revelation Proved by the Holy Qur'?n
This second kind of revelation is not contained in the Holy Qur'?n, but the Holy Qur'?n itself not only refers to it frequently but attributes its contents to All?h Almighty. Some verses of the Holy Book are reproduced below which clearly prove that the "revelation" is not confined to the Holy Qur'?n, but there is another kind of "wahy" which does not form part of the "Holy Book," yet it is the revelation from All?h Almighty
First Example The Holy Qur'?n says
And We did not appoint the Qiblah on which you were earlier, but that We might know the people who follow the Messenger as distinct from those who turn back on their heels. (2143)
In order to understand the verse, it is necessary to know the background in which it was revealed
In the early days of Madani life, after the Holy Prophet's migration to Madinah, the Muslims were ordered to direct their faces in prayers towards Baytul-Maqdas (Jerusalem) which had been appointed as Qiblah of the Muslims. Up to seventeen months, the Muslims had been observing the Baytul-Maqdas as their Qiblah. It was after seventeen months that the Holy Qur'?n abrogated the earlier order and the Muslims were required to observe the Holy Mosque of Makkah as their Qiblah and turn their faces towards it while praying. The following verse was revealed to appoint the new Qiblah
.So turn your face towards al-Masjid al-Haraam. (2144)
This new order was criticized by some disbelievers and they objected on it as to why the Baytul-Maqdas was appointed as Qiblah earlier. The above quoted verse (2143) was revealed to answer this objection. The answer was that the appointment of the former Qiblah was in order to test the people whether or not they follow the Messenger. To quote the meaning of the verse again
And We did not appoint the Qiblah on which you were earlier, but that We might know the people who follow the Messenger. (2143)
Here the appointment of the previous Qiblah has been attributed to All?h Almighty, which is a clear indication to the fact that the appointment of Baytul-Maqdas as Qiblah was done by the order of All?h Almighty Himself. But this order is nowhere in the Holy Qur'?n, and there is no verse in the Holy Book which directs the turning of faces towards Baytul-Maqdas. This order was given to Muslims by the Holy Prophet ( ) with no reference to any verse of the Holy Qur'?n. Still, this order was mentioned by the Holy Qur'?n in the above quoted verse as the order of All?h The words,
"We did not appoint the Qiblah," instead of the words,
"The Holy Prophet did not." are too clear on this point to need more explanation.
This statement of the Holy Qur'?n, thus, evidently proves that the previous order given by the Holy Prophet was based on a revelation which did not form part of the Book. And this is exactly the "unrecited revelation." The verse of the Holy Qur'?n (2143) quoted above proves the following facts
(a) The Holy Prophet used to receive some revelations which are not contained in the Holy Qur'?n.
(b) These revelations were from All?h Almighty, so much so that the orders based on such revelations were attributed to All?h Almighty.
(c) The orders based on such revelation were as binding on the believers as the orders of the first kind of revelations, i.e. the verse of the Holy Qur'?n.
(d) These orders were sometimes given so as to test whether or not the Muslims follow the Messenger irrespective of the question that his orders are contained in the Holy Qur'?n or not.
Second Example In the beginning, one of the rules followed by the Muslims in respect of the fasts of Ramadan was that even a short nap after iftaar (breaking of a fast) would nullify the permissibility of having sexual intercourse with one's wife. So, if someone would sleep for a short while after iftaar and wake up again, he would lose the opportunity of sleeping with his wife during the rest of the night, despite that the fast was over. This rule was prescribed by the Holy Prophet and was not contained in the Holy Qur'?n. But some Muslims broke the rule by sleeping with their wives after having a post-iftaar nap. Referring to these events, the Holy Qur'?n first admonishes those people who did not follow the rule. Then, by abrogating the same, allows the Muslims in future to sleep with their wives even when they had a nap after iftaar. In this context the Holy Qur'?n says
It is made lawful for you, in the nights of fasts, to have sex with your women. They are a cover for you, and you are a cover for them. All?h knew that you were betraying yourselves; so, He relented towards you and pardoned you. So, now you can have sexual intimacy with them, and seek what All?h has destined for you, and eat and drink until the white thread of the dawn becomes distinct from the black thread; then complete the fasts up to the night. (2187)
The following points with respect to this verse are worth consideration
(a) The verse confirms that having sex during the nights of Ramadaan was not lawful before.
(b) The people who had sex during the nights of Ramadaan before this verse was revealed are admonished by describing their act as "betraying themselves."
(c) The words, "so He relented towards you and pardoned you," indicate that their sexual act was a sin, because "relenting" and "pardoning" occur only after a person commits a sin.
(d) The words "so now you can have sexual intimacy with them" denote that it is only now that the sexual act during the nights of Ramadaan has been made lawful.
All these points confirm the fact that the earlier prohibition of having sexual intercourse during the nights of Ramadaan was validly made by a competent authority, and the Muslims were bound to abide by it.
But there is no verse in the Holy Qur'?n to convey this prohibition.. It was enforced only by the Holy Prophet. Still, the Holy Qur'?n not only confirms it, but also treats it as if it were in its own words. It is due to the fact that the Holy Prophet did not enforce this prohibition by his own will, it was rather based on a revelation of All?h Almighty which is not contained in the Holy Qur'?n.
Looked at from this angle, this verse on the one hand proves that there is a revelation which does not form part of the Holy Qur'?n, and on the other hand it reaffirms the status of the Holy Prophet as a law-giver, and that his injunctions, both orders and prohibitions, are binding on the Muslims.
Third Example On the occasion of the battle of Uhud, some Qur'?nic verses were revealed to make the Muslims recall the events of the battle of Badr How All?h helped them and how He promised to send the angels to their aid, and how He actually did so. These verses are as under
All?h has certainly helped you at Badr while you were weak. So, fear All?h so that you may be grateful. When you (O Prophet) were saying to the believers, 'Shall it not suffice you that your Lord shall aid you with three thousand angels being sent down? Why not? If you observe patience and fear All?h and they come to you in this their heat, your Lord shall aid you with five thousand angels having distinct marks?' And All?h did not make it but a good news for you so that your hearts might be satisfied. And there is no help except from All?h, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. (3123-126)
The emphasized sentence of these verses attributes the good news of the aid of angels to All?h Almighty, meaning thereby that the good news of this aid was given by All?h Himself. But this good news given at the time of Badr is nowhere available in the Holy Qur'?n. In other words, there is no verse in the Holy Book revealed during the battle of Badr which implies the good news of the aid of the angels. What is quoted above is only a reference of that news, made at the time of a later battle, and it is expressly mentioned in this verse that the good news was given by the Holy Prophet. Still, the news is attributed to All?h.
Thus, it is another example where the words of the Holy Prophet are held to be the words of All?h. There is no reason for this expression other than that the words of the Prophet were inspired by a special revelation, not contained in the Holy Qur'?n, and this is what is called the "unrecited revelation."
Fourth example Referring to the battle of Uhud at another occasion, the Holy Qur'?n says
And when All?h promised you that one of the two groups shall be for you. (87)
One of the two parties referred to in this verse was the commercial caravan of Abu Sufyan, coming from Syria, and the other group was the army of the Makkan disbelievers, led by Abu Jahl. The above verse says that All?h had promised the believers that they would triumph over one of these two groups. The Muslims, in fact, won the battle against the latter, namely, the army of Abu Jahl.
The point worth consideration here is that the promise of All?h to give the Muslims victory against any of the two groups is not there in the Holy Qur'?n. This promise was conveyed to the Muslims by the Holy Prophet ( ) without any reference to any verse of the Holy Qur'?n. Still, the verse quoted above atttibutes the promise to All?h and not to the Holy Prophet.
The only conclusion derivable from this is that the promise was received by the Holy Prophet through an "unrecited revelation." Hence it is attributed to All?h. Guided by this revelation, the Holy Prophet conveyed the promise to his companions.
Thus, it is another proof of the existence of a kind of revelation which is not contained in the Holy Qur'?n and is called the "unrecited revelation."
Fifth Example Once the Holy Prophet told a secret to one of his wives. She disclosed the secret to some other person. When the Holy Prophet came to know that the secret has been disclosed by his wife, he sought an explanation from her. She asked him as to who told him about the disclosure. The Holy Prophet replied that he was informed about it by All?h Almighty.
This event has been mentioned by the Holy Qur'?n in the following words
And when the Prophet told one of his wives about a matter secretly; then, when she told about it, and All?h has disclosed it to him, he made known some part of it, and turned aside from some part; then, when he told her about it, she said, "Who told you this?" He said, "I was told by the All-Knowing, the All-Aware." (66 3)
The emphasized sentence of this verse is quite clear in that All?h told the Holy Prophet about the disclosure of the secret. This is also not mentioned anywhere in the Holy Qur'?n. So, it is another concrete example where the Holy Prophet received some revelation from All?h other than the one contained in the Holy Qur'?n. This is exactly the "unrecited revelation."
Sixth Example During the siege of Banu Nadir, the famous tribe of the Jews in Madinah, some Muslims had cut down date-trees from around the fort to compel the enemy to surrender. After the war was over, some Jews objected to the cutting trees. The Holy Qur'?n has answered the objection in the following words
Whatever date-trees you cut down, or left standing upon their roots, that was by the leave of All?h. (595)
It has been very directly mentioned in this verse that the Muslims cut down the trees with a leave from All?h. But nobody can point out to any verse in the Holy Qur'?n to the effect that the cutting of trees during the war is allowed. The question is from where did the Muslims acquire this leave from All?h? There is no answer to this question except that the leave of All?h had been conveyed to them by the Holy Prophet and he received it through "unrecited revelation."
Seventh Example It is well known that the Holy Prophet had adopted Sayyidina Zaid bin Haarithah as his son. He married Zainab, daughter of Jahsh. After some time their relations began to be strained and, ultimately, he divorced her. In the days of Jahiliyyah an adopted son was treated as a real son in all respects and for all purposes. The Holy Qur'?n, on the other hand, declared that the adopted sons cannot be treated as the real ones.
To eradicate the Jahili concept of the adopted son, All?h Almighty ordered the Holy Prophet that he should marry Zainab after her having been divorced by his adopted son, Zaid ibn Haarithah. The Holy Prophet was a bit reluctant in the beginning, for, according to the prevalent custom, it was treated a shameful act to marry the divorced wife of one's adopted son. But when the Holy Prophet received a concrete order from All?h, he married her.
This event has been mentioned by the Holy Qur'?n in the following words
When you were saying to the one whom All?h had blessed and whom you had blessed, (i.e. Zaid, before he divorced Zainab), "Keep to you your wife and fear All?h," and you were hiding in your heart what All?h was to disclose and you were fearing people, and All?h has more right to be feared by you. So, when Zaid finished with her, We made you marry her, so that there may remain no restriction on the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons when they have finished with them. And the order of All?h had to be done. (3337)
Here the words, "you were hiding in your heart what All?h was to disclose," refer to the fact that All?h had informed the Holy Prophet that he will marry Zainab after she is divorced by Zaid. The Holy Prophet knew that, ultimately, she is going to be divorced by Zaid, but, out of shame, he could not disclose it and when Zaid consulted him in the matter, he advised him to keep to his wife and not to divorce her.
From this it follows that the Holy Prophet had been foretold by All?h that Zainab was going to be divorced by her husband. But this information is not contained in the Holy Qur'?n. It was given to him through an unrecited revelation.
The second sentence is more significant in the context, that is, "We made you marry her." Here All?h Almighty declares that the marriage between the Holy Prophet and Sayyidah Zainab was contracted by an order of All?h.This order is nowhere mentioned in the Holy Qur'?n. Still, the Holy Qur'?n affirms it. This is another confirmation of an order conveyed to the Holy Prophet through an "unrecited revelation."
Eighth Example The Holy Qur'?n has repeatedly ordered the Muslims to establish salaah (the prayer) and to be steadfast in it. In the following verse, after repeating the same order, the Holy Qur'?n gives a special concession to the Muslims that, in the state of war, when they fear an attack from their enemy, they can perform the prayer in whatever way they can, either riding on horses or camels or walking on their feet. But after the danger of the enemy is over, they are ordered to perform the prayer in its normal way. This principle has been laid down in the following words
Take due care of all the prayers and the middle prayer; and stand before All?h in total devotion. But if you are in fear, then (pray) on foot or riding, but when you are in peace, then recite the name of All?h in the way He taught you. (2238-239)
A number of points are worth consideration in these verses
Firstly, the verse assumes that there are more than one prayers obligatory on the Muslims, but the exact number of the prayers has not been given, neither in this verse nor at any other place in the Holy Qur'?n. That the number of obligatory prayers is five is only mentioned by the Holy Prophet. The Holy Qur'?n, by saying "Take due care of all the prayers," confirms what the Holy Prophet prescribed for the Muslims.
Secondly, the verse lays special emphasis on the "Middle Prayer," but does not define it. The definition has been left to the Holy Prophet.
Thirdly, the most important sentence in relation to our subject is, "when you are in peace, then recite the name of All?h in the way He taught you." It goes without saying that the "recitation of the name of All?h" means here "to perform the prayer" as the context does not permit any other meaning.
Now, the Holy Qur'?n directs the Muslims that in the state of peace they should perform the prayer in its normal way which has been taught to them by All?h. It is an express indication that the normal way of performing prayers has been taught to the Muslims by All?h Himself. But no such way has ever been mentioned in the Holy Qur'?n. There is no verse in the Holy Book mentioning the detailed way of performing prayer. It is only the Holy Prophet who educated the Muslims as to how they are to perform it. But the Holy Qur'?n holds the teaching of the Holy Prophet to be the teaching of All?h.
It means that All?h has taught the way of prayer to the Holy Prophet through some "unrecited revelation" not contained in the Holy Qur'?n, and the Holy Prophet taught it to the Muslims. Thus, the Muslims have been taught by All?h through the teaching of the Holy Prophet. However, the teaching of the Holy Prophet is described in the holy verse as the teaching of All?h, because it was based on the "unrecited revelation."
Ninth Example Certain hypocrites had not accompanied the Holy Prophet in the expedition of Hudaibiyah. After that, when the Muslims resolved to proceed to the battle of Khayber, the Holy Prophet declared that only the participants of Hudaibiyah shall be entitled to accompany him on this journey. The hypocrites who did not go to Hudaibiyah were now interested in their participation in the battle of Khaybar because according to their anticipation the Muslims were expected to gain from there sizeable spoils, which the hypocrites wanted to share. But the Holy Prophet, inspite of their requests, did not allow them to participate in the battle.
This event has been referred to in the following verse of the Holy Qur'?n
Those remaining behind will say, when you set forth after spoils to acquire them, "Let us follow you,"- desiring to change the words of All?h. Say, "You shall not follow us; so All?h has said earlier." (4815)
The emphasized words indicate that there was a previous word of All?h barring the participation of the hypocrites in the battle of Khaybar, and confining the battle to the participants of Hudaibiyah. But no such word exists anywhere in the Holy Qur'?n. It was only a prophetic order. Still, All?h Almighty describes it as His Own word. The reason is obvious. The Prophetic order was based on the order of All?h received by him through some "unrecited revelation" which is not found in the Holy Qur'?n. Yet, it was a revelation, as certain as any word of All?h.
Tenth Example In the early days of his Prophethood, when the Holy Prophet received the verses of the Holy Qur'?n revealed to him, he used to recite the same simultaneously, lest he should forget them. It was a strenuous exercise for him, because he felt it was much too difficult to listen to the revelation, to understand it correctly, and to learn it by heart, all at the same time. All?h Almighty relieved him from this burden when He revealed the following verses of the Holy Qur'?n
Move not your tongue with it in order to hasten it. It is on Us to gather it (in your heart) and to recite it. So, when We read it, follow its reading. Then it is on Us to explain it. (7516-19)
In the last sentence, All?h Almighty has promised the Holy Prophet to explain the verses of the Holy Qur'?n to him. It is evident that this explanation is something separate from the Holy Qur'?n itself. It is not the Holy Qur'?n. It is its explanation or its exegesis. Therefore, it should necessarily be in some other form, distinct from the words of the Holy Book. And this is exactly what is meant by the "unrecited revelation." But the two kinds of revelation, though different in their form, are both revealed to the Holy Prophet; both are from All?h; and both are to be believed and obeyed by the Muslims.
Eleventh Example The Holy Qur'?n says to the Holy Prophet
And All?h has revealed upon you the Book and the wisdom, and has taught you what you did not know and the grace of All?h upon you has been great. (4113)
In this verse the revelation of the Wisdom has been mentioned as separate from the revelation of the Book. It indicates that the wisdom referred to here is something additional to the Holy Qur'?n, and it has also been revealed to the Holy Prophet by All?h Almighty.
Then the Holy Qur'?n proceeds to say "And (All?h) has taught you what you did not know." It means that All?h has not only revealed the Book, but has also revealed the Wisdom, and also taught the Holy Prophet what he did not know before. This teaching includes all kinds of directions given by Him to His prophet, either through the Holy Book or through some "unrecited revelation" in the light of which the Holy Prophet performed his functions as a messenger of All?h.
Twelfth Example The Holy Qur'?n has summarised the various kinds of revelation in the following words
And it is not possible for a human being that All?h should speak to him, except by way of revelation or from behind a curtain, or that He should send a messenger and he reveals by His leave what He wills. (4251)
Now, out of these three modes, the revelation of the Holy Qur'?n was carried out through the third one, namely, through an angel who is identified in the verse by the word, "messenger." It is clearly settled by some other verses
Say Whoever be an enemy to Jibreel (Gabriel, the angel)! it is he who has brought it (the Qur'?n) down upon your heart by the permission of All?h. (297)
And truly it (the Qur'?n) is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds, brought down by the Faithful Spirit upon your heart, that you may be one of the warners, in a clear Arabic tongue. (26192-195)
These verses are quite explicit on the point that the Holy Qur'?n has been revealed through an angel, named in the first verse as Jibreel, and in the second one as the Faithful Spirit; but the verse (4251) quoted above describes that there are two more ways of revelation. These two modes have also been used in the case of the Holy Prophet. It means that the revelation sent down to the Holy Prophet was not confined to the Holy Qur'?n, but there were other revelations, too. These revelations are termed as "unrecited revelation."
These are sixteen verses, which affirm not only the existence of the "unrecited revelation" but also its reliability and authenticity, and its binding nature. It is not intended here to produce all the material available in the Holy Qur'?n to establish this kind of revelation. The purpose was to give some examples only, which has, perhaps, been substantially served. But before proceeding further, it will be useful to recollect and summarize the conclusions that stand proved in the light of the Holy Qur'?n as discussed above
(1) The function of the Holy Prophet like other prophets is not only to convey the divine Book. He is also to teach the Book, to teach the wisdom and to make people pure by training them practically.
(2) The "Obedience of the Holy Prophet" is as necessary as the obedience of All?h; because the latter has always been mentioned in the Holy Qur'?n combined with the former.
(3) The obedience of the Holy Prophet in practical is the obedience of All?h; and the latter cannot be carried out except through the former.
(4) The Muslims are bound not only to obey the Holy Prophet, but they are also under an obligation to follow him.
(5) Whatever the Holy Prophet says or does in his capacity of a Messenger is always based on, or confirmed by, a revelation from All?h.
(6) This revelation is sometimes contained in the Holy Qur'?n and called the recited revelation, and sometimes it is sent down in addition to the Holy Qur'?n, and the same is termed as "unrecited revelation." (Taqi Usmani, The Authority of Sunnah, Chapter 1 Sunnah The Second Source of Islamic Law, Source)
We can see from the very Quran itself (internal evidence) that the Quran is not the only revelation sent down to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Indeed, this is a very big problem that the Quranites need to deal with.
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Peace Osman.
One is clearly given instruction in Qoran to "deal" with one source and one source only. Qoran.
1827
You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord's scripture. Nothing shall abrogate His words, and you shall not find any other source beside it.All the argument above is nil. Because obeying/following/believing GODs messenger is conditional that the source must be GOD.
The messenger as a human being/his own words/opinions are prone to error.
What other revelation the messenger has or has not received is irrelevant. We have all the detail we need in Qoran
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace everyone,
Some of the arguments (and other similar arguments) in the article in the first post in this thread have been demolished/destroyed in the posts below.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12519.msg102340#msg102340
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601691.msg268844#msg268844
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597557.msg189729#msg189729
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Peace Osman
| Quranites argue that the Prophet (peace be upon him) did not receive any revelation besides the Qur'an.
First it would be noteworthy to show that Prophets in the past did receive revelations from God but they were not included in any book.
Maybe some Quranit say like that. But that shouldnt be the case-
Because Maybe that prophet recived something besides the Quran, But that doesn?t mean that this was something to be revealed.So I simply dont bye the premise for that argument. Are there any at All?
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So I simply dont bye the premise for that argument. Are there any at All?
Quran is complete and fully detailed. Hadith followers disagree with this. To them, it isn't complete and requires man-made compilation of hearsay to fill the empty gaps Allah left in the Quran. They indirectly claim that Allah makes mistakes and Bukhari had to correct Allah.
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Peace NielsJacob,
What you have mentioned above is the belief that I personally subscribe to.
Peace Osman )
Another thing that come to my mind.
If we assume that that prophet got some revelations besides Quran. Then it would be hard to tell, when he opened his mouth to give instructions, what would be from God and what would be his own mind.If all should be from God then he shouldn?t have any will of his own any more. Making him to be an unhuman being. Besides then he couldn?t tell if he was hungry or thirsty. (unless God was doing that for him also-making him God!))
So all in all he would also had to be talking his own words.
And basiclly we dont know what would be from God and not.If all he said should be followed. Then we put him besides God. And thats what the Quran again and again states is wrong.
So all in all these people just want someone human to worship. Wich failure many christians also are turned towards. Maybe may believe in one God, but are told to see Isa as God himself if they should call themselves Christians.
We are all struggling with these tendencies. And someone who follow that tradition wants to convince us that this is the truth.
Think also about how much drama there is about that its not allowed according to many of these hadith followers to draw that specfic prophet.
Also here we see they wants to put him next to God. And tell he should?t be drawn. (so he shouldnt?t be worshipped or what) If they dont want to worship him. They should simply just stop it. Instead of telling people not to draw pictures of him. They seems really afraid about their own tendences. -
Did the Prophet say at any time you have to do what I tell you outside the Qur'an till the end of times in whatever circumstances?
Do we have any proof that he said that and that all that we are told that he said he did say it?
On the other hands there are hawadith in which he es reported to have said tha people whould not ask him so many questions because that put him in a spot to answer andthen that the people feel obliged by what he said, whereas he did nto want to oblige people to anything. Can't remember where this hadith is found but I have indeed read it.
Salaam
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Peace Osman )
Another thing that come to my mind.
If we assume that that prophet got some revelations besides Quran. Then it would be hard to tell, when he opened his mouth to give instructions, what would be from God and what would be his own mind.Peace ) - Absolutely, it would just become totally confusing.
Did the Prophet say at any time you have to do what I tell you outside the Qur'an till the end of times in whatever circumstances?
Do we have any proof that he said that and that all that we are told that he said he did say it?
On the other hands there are hawadith in which he es reported to have said tha people whould not ask him so many questions because that put him in a spot to answer andthen that the people feel obliged by what he said, whereas he did nto want to oblige people to anything. Can't remember where this hadith is found but I have indeed read it.
Peace huruf,
Also going back to Jafar's or RunninglikeZebra's (can't remember which one) argument, how much do we really know from the Qur'an and how much information are we in reality getting from hadith? Even those of us who espouse Qur'an only?
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Well, it is a jobtakes its time for a while, after that it is a second nature to make sure that anything you handle you check to see if it is in the Qur'an or not. Of course a help is you own sound mind in the sense that anything that does not seem to add up you check and investigate. I do not find that after a while it is such a terrible task.
Of course, I suplpose that it has to do with the amount of things taken for granted that you have before that. I never was a great one at hadith nor took them too seriously, that is if what they say seems to me enlightening I appreciate it, no matter it is hadith or it is a saying by whoever or anonymous, but if it nonsense or inmoral I just used to forget it and that is that.
So it has not been such a big deal for me to forsake something that finally did not pose such a terrible threat to me. However I do appreciate that for some people in whom hadith is so ingrained that they ignore that many things they think are in the Qur'an are not an are just hadith, for them it may be very difficult. But still, it may take longer or harder work, but cannot see why it would be such an impossibility. At any rate like most converts I have always taken for granted that what makes islam islam as a religion is the Qur'an and any other thing just is just so as to make it more enciclopedic but not truer. Add to that that I have never been one for much ritual.
Salaam
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Peace Osman,
Ok agreed there were divine revelations inspired to Muhammad other than the current text of al-quran, as proven by al-quran itself. This doesn't mean that the unverifiable hearsay collection of "hadith" falsely attributed to Muhammad and written hundreds of years after his death are those revelations. That would be a logical fallacy.
The teacher A gave the student B a lecture which wasn't recorded by A or B.
This book written by C contains that lecture as claimed by C.
Therefore the lecture contained in this book is the one given by A to B.THIS IS A LOGICAL FALLACY.
The same al-quran which proves the existence of revelation outside al-quran has this to say about "hadith" clearly and directly. If BZ uses al-quran's signs to prove revelation outside al-quran, then he has to accept these signs from the same al-quran about "hadith"
7185 Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that allah has created? Perhaps their time is drawing near; so in which HADITH after this one will they believe?
456 These are the revelations of allah, we recite them to you with the truth. So, in which HADITH after allah and his revelations do they believe?
7750 So in what HADITH, after it, will they believe?
Case closed.
Peace