Is Qur'an Alone the Last Step Before Leaving Islam Completely?
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Peace Osman,
Peace truthseeker11 - in light of this, do you think we can use some hadith as historical context? Also, what about those multitudes of hadith that can be neither verified or negated by using the Qur'an as the yardstick as it were?
When did I claim al-quran is the only yardstick? I have mentioned the other yardsticks also clearly which should be used to verify even al-quran according to al-quran itself. This is the problem here. I explain everything in detail and repeatedly but then 80% of what I say gets completely ignored.
ANY hadith has to be verified by all the yardsticks as the truth before it can be taken as the truth. If none of those yardsticks can verify it as the truth then obviously it cannot be taken as the truth and it is just an unverifiable hearsay.
As far as "belief" in hadith is concerned, your question is answered clearly and directly by the divine signs (7185, 456, 7750).
Peace
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It would be generalization to think that somehow atheism is the last stage before Quran alone.
Do some research on what exMuslims say about why their last stage was Quran alone. They were already in doubt about the entire religion and not about hadiths before they came to Quran. They wanted all the answers which they couldn't find from this book. Some probably chose the path out of greed. So the choice was rather experiment for them. They were not satisfied. Hence, they left. I have also come across a few who preferred to go by what others say about Quranic verses. They were not interested in using their own brain and energy on Quran. When the explanations sounded violent they took the highway while cursing Allah.
I wouldn't worry about it. Think about the class we took in college and then dropped in the middle of the semester because it was too hard to understand. The situation with those who left Islam after being in this Quran alone path is the same. How many people really get a degree in Physics? In my school, only one or two P! Its same here. One has to be truly passionate and interested in learning without letting depression of failure get in the way.
what makes you confident and comfortable in your Qur'an alone ways?
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes I saw the sign
Life is demanding without understanding
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes I saw the sign
-Ace of Base
I don't listen to pop, but the lyrics above describe why I love this path. Just wish they were written in present tense. I see the difference very clearly....very very clearly I never saw it when I was a sunni.I sdo not think people who say Qur'an Alone mean Qur'an instead of God. God is a given, what they mean is that they do not take humans' words together with God's words such as in the Qur'an.
I like the sound of Allah or God alone )
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It would be generalization to think that somehow atheism is the last stage before Quran alone.
Do some research on what exMuslims say about why their last stage was Quran alone. They were already in doubt about the entire religion and not about hadiths before they came to Quran. They wanted all the answers which they couldn't find from this book. Some probably chose the path out of greed. So the choice was rather experiment for them. They were not satisfied. Hence, they left. I have also come across a few who preferred to go by what others say about Quranic verses. They were not interested in using their own brain and energy on Quran. When the explanations sounded violent they took the highway while cursing Allah.
I wouldn't worry about it. Think about the class we took in college and then dropped in the middle of the semester because it was too hard to understand. The situation with those who left Islam after being in this Quran alone path is the same. How many people really get a degree in Physics? In my school, only one or two ! Its same here. One has to be truly passionate and interested in learning without letting depression of failure get in the way.
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes I saw the sign
Life is demanding without understanding
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes I saw the sign
-Ace of Base
I don't listen to pop, but the lyrics above describe why I love this path. Just wish they were written in present tense. I see the difference very clearly....very very clearly I never saw it when I was a sunni.
I like the sound of Allah or God alone )That is fine, you like. That is understandable and fine. What I do not like is when people cling to this or that expression as a proof of something way beyond what is intended, that is, nitpicking.
Myself I do not feel so much about God alone or Qur'an alone. I think nothing is alone really. God is alone but on the other hand He has created creatures who can speak to Him... Which shows again that that "alone" is a contextual thing, in the context of worshipping or believing in something transcendent beyond our powers or whatever.
As to Qur'an alone bing the last step to leaving islam, the world is full of last steps to leave anything. For some it may be for others may be de opposite.
Salaam
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When did I claim al-quran is the only yardstick? I have mentioned the other yardsticks also clearly which should be used to verify even al-quran according to al-quran itself. This is the problem here. I explain everything in detail and repeatedly but then 80% of what I say gets completely ignored.
My apologies truthseeker11.
I also have at times felt like this in the past. I think I may have inferred a little too much!
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Salaamun alaik ya akhi Osman,
My apologies truthseeker11.
I also have at times felt like this in the past. I think I may have inferred a little too much!
No problem. I apologize if I sounded a bit harsh.
handshake
Barak Allahu feekum
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For me quranism was the last step before leaving Islam. I consider myself an apostate. To me a divine Quran is really a joke. A divine revelation to Muhammad, I find no trace of. Islam to me is a evolved version of the crazy messianist faith of the judeonazarenes who were expecting the end of times and considered themselves to be the only true believers. Much of the latter can still be detected in modern day muslim behaviour.
I still believe in God however. I just don't think God would express "Him"self in the format we find in the Quran.
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I do. But it would absurd to keep calling myself Muslim when there are no common denominators left outside the belief in the One God.
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I think I have put quite a lot of lot effort in studying its origins and true history. This study of its history seems very much taboo for most quranists.
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I think I have put quite a lot of lot effort in studying its origins and true history. This study of its history seems very much taboo for most quranists.
Truth sometimes hurt when it's not inline to our own liking.
Falsehood feel better when it's inline to our own liking.
Common behavior within human. -
For me quranism was the last step before leaving Islam. I consider myself an apostate. To me a divine Quran is really a joke. A divine revelation to Muhammad, I find no trace of. Islam to me is a evolved version of the crazy messianist faith of the judeonazarenes who were expecting the end of times and considered themselves to be the only true believers. Much of the latter can still be detected in modern day muslim behaviour.
I still believe in God however. I just don't think God would express "Him"self in the format we find in the Quran.
Hi RLZ (Can I call you that?)
That being said, are there any books you believe to be devine/perfect/unaltered?
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Salamun Alaikum
Qur'an Alone is definitely the final step before leaving "Biblical Sunnism with all its Rituals" packaged as Islam.
Peace
Peace Al-Marh0m,
I may have misunderstood you, can you elaborate further? Was that a confirmation that it is indeed the last step before leaving Islam (whatever form) completely?
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Check this out on reddit
https//www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/3d47by/did_you_go_through_a_quranist_phase/
It may explain why Quran alone places like Free-Minds never reach critical mass to form into communities, because they're just stop-off areas before full agnosticism/atheism.
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Check this out on reddit
https//www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/3d47by/did_you_go_through_a_quranist_phase/
It may explain why Quran alone places like Free-Minds never reach critical mass to form into communities, because they're just stop-off areas before full agnosticism/atheism.
Or it may not explain anything. A few questions to ponder
What is the purpose of a forum?
Do you often frequent forums which form communities?
And have you considered why a primarily whole food plant based diet does not reach critical mass despite overwhelming evidence suggesting it is the diet with most benefit?
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Check this out on reddit
https//www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/3d47by/did_you_go_through_a_quranist_phase/
It may explain why Quran alone places like Free-Minds never reach critical mass to form into communities, because they're just stop-off areas before full agnosticism/atheism.
Is there any evidence that suggests that there are more monotheists/Quran-aloners that become agnostics/atheists than people of other faiths? For example, are there more monotheists/Quran-aloners that become agnostics/atheists than christians?
Is there any evidence that suggests that most ex-muslims were Quran-aloners before they became ex-muslims?
In my view, the Quran explains exactly why Quran alone places like Free-Minds never reach critical mass to form into communities.
The Quran suggests that only a few (the minority) will believe in Quran-alone/God-alone
Quran 12106 And most of them will not believe in God except while setting up partners.
The Quran suggests that only a few (the minority) believed in the divine message that Noah brought to his people
Quran 1140 So, when Our command came and the chamber erupted. We said "Carry in it a pair from each kind, and your family; except those against whom the word has been issued; and whoever has believed." But those who believed with him were few.
The Quran suggests that only a few (the minority) will be guided
Quran 1762 He said "Shall I show You this one whom You have preferred over me, that if You respite me until the Day of Resurrection, I will seize his progeny, except for a few."
The Quran suggests that those who don't believe in the hereafter (the next life) will not believe in Quran-alone
Quran 1745-46 And when you read the Qur'an, We place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier. And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord in the Qur'an alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
The fact that only a minority of muslims follow God-alone/Quran-alone, doesn't mean that they are on the wrong path (astray). On the contrary, the Quran suggests that the minority are on the right path.
The Quran suggests that only a few (the minority) are guided
Quran 6116 And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you astray; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
By the way, I would like to share two quotes here.
"Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal."
- Felipe Andres Coronel
"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth."
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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What is the purpose of a forum
This is too general a question which misses the fact that so many threads have been created by people over the years talking of forming a community, many of the people who have started them have since disappeared and gone completely off the Quran only radar.
The Quran talks about communities, and what I'm curious about is why Quran communities have not emerged, especially in the West and I'm investigating whether this is the case due to the fact that for most people Quran alone may be part of an evolution from traditional Islam to complete irreligiosity.
There are those who talk of 'well being Quran alone isn't about being part of a religion' but at the end of the day it's just mincing words, if you're going to live your life by a book/claim to live your life by a book and believe that book was inspired by a deity then you have a spiritual-based ideology which is organised as per the sayings of said book i.e. for all intents and purposes, a religion.
Do you often frequent forums which form communities?
As a matter of fact I do, the Occupy Movement, Anonymous, Truthers and a plethora of other online communities have all managed to establish more of a realworld presence, albeit for the purposes of demonstration, but it speaks volumes when compared to the need here for people to be around their own kind on an ideological basis and be free of oppression.
And have you considered why a primarily whole food plant based diet does not reach critical mass despite overwhelming evidence suggesting it is the diet with most benefit?
There are hundreds of communes around the world which have emerged by people wishing to live in communities for this very reason alone, with the exception of one very small group in Tucson, this has not happened for Quran only.
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This is too general a question which misses the fact that so many threads have been created by people over the years talking of forming a community, many of the people who have started them have since disappeared and gone completely off the Quran only radar.
By off the Quran only radar you mean...not anywhere to be found or become atheists/agnostics? If the former, guess that's understandable and if the latter, where do we find this information?The Quran talks about communities, and what I'm curious about is why Quran communities have not emerged, especially in the West and I'm investigating whether this is the case due to the fact that for most people Quran alone may be part of an evolution from traditional Islam to complete irreligiosity.
It's possible for some cases but most? Don't think so. Also if the focus is the 'west' then one'd probably find more in the some cases throwing off the shackles of "religiosity" rather than other places where the some are probably reverting back to the safe arms of whatever they left or thereabouts.There are those who talk of 'well being Quran alone isn't about being part of a religion' but at the end of the day it's just mincing words, if you're going to live your life by a book/claim to live your life by a book and believe that book was inspired by a deity then you have a spiritual-based ideology which is organised as per the sayings of said book i.e. for all intents and purposes, a religion.
What should a Quran alone community be like? Have you tried to start such a community? Which kind? Online/ Offline?As a matter of fact I do, the Occupy Movement, Anonymous, Truthers and a plethora of other online communities have all managed to establish more of a realworld presence, albeit for the purposes of demonstration, but it speaks volumes when compared to the need here for people to be around their own kind on an ideological basis and be free of oppression.
There are hundreds of communes around the world which have emerged by people wishing to live in communities for this very reason alone, with the exception of one very small group in Tucson, this has not happened for Quran only.
There are quite a few differences between online communities and offline and also those to do with a more or less focused aim (e.g. demonstration purposes). As far as I've seen in a decade or so of joining FM, people have gotten together in groups online and offline, some using FM as a jumping board and some not, creating their own communities...study groups, discussion groups, presence in social media, off shoot or otherwise websites, online forums and so on and so forth. It's not taken over the world yet? I'd say it's had a significant impact gauging by a lot of people who didn't know about it before now knowing about it. Non disguised and disguised methods of putting it across in news/articles that previously would've been unheard of. No real world communes yet? That would depend on a lot of factors. I recall some people in the UK starting some rl soft communes, not sure if that got off the ground the way they planned but I do think they're involved in something of the sort a couple years back.
When talking about the real world aspect, it's worth gauging whether something is worth enough to change one's lifestyle and/or move etc to such. Probably why a primarily whole food plant based diet commune wouldn't exactly be a hit, as a lifestyle either. For some people, sure...for a lot? Pretty doubtful. This is where one'd ask to put your lifestyle where your mouth is something of the sort and that's a valid question...but is it really proving something to move, make a lot of changes and start living somewhere with a new set of people and circumstances for ideological purposes? In some cases, it's kinda like a trade off. For the cynics, those knowing human nature and probably the oldies with established families, probably not. Not without a charismatic leader either. For the younger ones, those looking for a purpose/other reasons, sure...to a certain point. Then the disagreements start and the world beckons back. Some may stay and bemoan the demise of something awesome maybe even regard 'quran alone' as part of the eventual evolution to evil, or whatever..."Dangit I knew we should've picked the whole food plant based commune, no one would ever leave"...
Speaking personally, I don't see why quranic principles cannot be fought for and/or supported in the real world within one's current parameters as opposed to flouncing off to be with 'my kind' because no one gets it. The world has changed since the times one had to create their own little country and/or city to practise whatever they pleased. Plus you have plenty of communication now so meeting one's 'own kind' is considerably easier than looking around the neighborhood where you'd probably find a pickle fanatic sooner than someone into the spirit of the quran (true story). This eases the pressure and/or dare I say the need of creating a commune to be with others and expecting everyone to move in like yesterday. One can satisfy the 'belonging' aspect to some degree by reaching out where they are.
For those really into being leaders or a part of something built from the ground up, I can see why it would be frustrating that not a lot of people want to get involved in something that has a lot of unknowns associated with it. Not unknowns as in never been done before, but unknowns as in execution, people involved so on and so forth. I think that interpretation would play a large part here.
To sum up, can we get together for a focused purpose? Yes, there have been conferences, collaborations etc where 'quran only' put aside their differences and came together, and probably will do so again. Can we get together to start a real life community/commune? let's take a couple reasons...if it is to be with 'one's kind', it's already being satisfied in some way via the internet...if ideological building from ground up, planning needs to be of sufficient quality, leadership, vision and resolving the age old disagreement over interpretation and to get numbers etc...I think many have the former covered or can, leading to a decrease in drive for the latter. Those not able to move, decrease in latter. Also ideological differences over actually building from ground up, decrease in latter. Established families/lifestyle equals reluctance to move without a driving reason, decrease in the latter and so on. We are left with a very particular set of people in the latter and the numbers won't be as high as those in other groups. I could probably try to deduce what the circumstances of this latter set would be, but I guess it explains why it's probably not very viable currently. Perhaps in the future, or maybe in the past it may have been or will be a smashing success.
It's easier to start a community dealing with one or two focused aims, much harder to incorporate a whole set of things given the way we are and how much independent thought comes into play. The dynamics of groups too. Could we design an awesome community using all the tools at our disposal, yes. Can we get people to come over? I would say yes too if we did it in a smart way. Would they stay? Perhaps. So why isn't it already done...? Probably due to the factors mentioned above and the remaining latter set doesn't have enough momentum or quality to attract. Not to say that other communities haven't been created and are perpetuating, they just aren't rl from the ground up ideological communes in the sense of the word.
