a challange to prove only the Quran to be followed
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Salam Alikum
i have friends who are sunnis and they gave a challenge to Quran only followers and asked the following to be answered
please make this a friendly discussion
the challenge is as follows
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The Prophet (P) came to explain the Quran (Q. 1644 and 1664).
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Prophet Muhammed (P) was sent to instruct the Quran with wisdom (Q. 2129 and 622, 2151, and 3164)
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Authority of the Prophet Muhammed (P) that they make Him Judge in all matters and accept Him in full conviction (Q. 465).
How can they say the Prophet (p) was just a post-man if he was also sent to do the above?
If the Quran is fully explained in detail why does the Quran state that the Prophet (p) was also instructed to do all the above?
thank you for your time
peace
....
you should not have friends who are sunni.
you should not have anything to do with sectartianist,
ALLAH instructs you in the quran to have nothing to do with those who divide themselves into sects.
peace peace
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I think it is well-worth it to take some ideas on how to be from the Biblical Gospels when it comes to behavior. Quran seems to lack a lot of certain "aspects" (at least if you read it as it always has),
Be safe
Amenuel -
Salam Alikum
i have friends who are sunnis and they gave a challenge to Quran only followers and asked the following to be answered
please make this a friendly discussion
the challenge is as follows
-
The Prophet (P) came to explain the Quran (Q. 1644 and 1664).
-
Prophet Muhammed (P) was sent to instruct the Quran with wisdom (Q. 2129 and 622, 2151, and 3164)
-
Authority of the Prophet Muhammed (P) that they make Him Judge in all matters and accept Him in full conviction (Q. 465).
How can they say the Prophet (p) was just a post-man if he was also sent to do the above?
If the Quran is fully explained in detail why does the Quran state that the Prophet (p) was also instructed to do all the above?
thank you for your time
peace
1 obviously its the prophet who explained quran with the authority of almighty he delieverd you the quran but he is a messenger not the author of quran the wording are by the mouth of our beloved prophet but the wording are from Allah..its a common reason Allah only talk with messenger so we should believe what messenger is saying ,,, and he only said quran,,, but todays sunnis biggest problem is this they are claiming these are words of messenger but who is claiming the narrators so,,, author of the books apart from quran is by the mouth of narrators so why should we believe in the thing which have no central authority by Allah and messenger...
2 lets talk scientifically as you said instruct ,,, do u know instructions meaning ,,, to correct the understandings, the understanding which are already understood but not followed correctly like associating partners,,, so if I want to learn driving the instructor will tell me rules of driving ,,, he cannot make his own rules apart from the law of traffic ,,, so if u didn't listen him carefuly while he was instructing you,,, its ur mistake not messengers mistake,,,
3 465 No, by your Lord, they will not believe until they make you judge
in what they dispute with each other,now point to be noted prophet is judge right now ... in the dispute yeh,,, excellent so he will definitely make a decision by the book of law which is authorised everywhere... that's how current law and courts work,,, so obviously he will judge by the book which is already claiming an ultimate law.. ofcoarse he will not look in the bukhari or muslim or trimzeee use your reason my brother... sunnis are lost people... 98 of them never read the translation and meaning of quran in their whole life ,,, these r just like the other people who are blindly follow their forefathers ,, what if they are wrong,,, who is responsible you or them ,,, when Allah gives us all hearing sight and mouth and specially a book which is fully detail and the challenge of the book no body never achieved can they make any verse like this ......
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You have already got your answers. But just ask them the following questions
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How do you connect the following obeying the messenger = obeying bukhari's hadith books?
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Why call a religious book Sahih al-Bukhari or Jami` at-Tirmidhi instead of Sahih Traditions of Muhammad if the hadiths came from Prophet Muhammad?
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If hadiths are supposed to explain Quran, why did they leave out the scientific facts found in its verses which later nonMuslims had to show to Muslims?
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If hadiths are supposed to explain Quran why did they leave out the following Surahs 23, 27, 29, 35, 51, 57, 58, 64, 67, 69, 70, 73, 76, 81, 82, 86, 88, 89, 90, 94, 100, 101, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, and 109?
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Where are the original manuscripts of Bukhari showing the application of hadith science in his work?
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Bukhari's collected hadiths were preserved, but why was his first biography allowed to be lost?
-
Shafi was known as the architect of Islam, meaning he was such an important person. Then why very little is known about his earlier days and why his first biography is also lost?
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How did Bukhari hear 600,000 hadiths from 1,000 men when his admirer and teacher Ibn Hanbal with whom he worked knew millions of hadiths which he tried to even live passionately and almost got him prophethood?
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How many people went on tour with Mr Bukhari to collect hadiths? Not known? Move to next question.
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It is claimed that Bukhari traveled to places also to collect hadiths. Who went to verify he did so by meeting the same people from whom he collected the hadiths?
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Where in Quran Sunnah of Prophet is mentioned?
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Hadiths say "kill exMuslims". Does this mean in order to stay alive they should "pretend" to be Muslim? Isn't this forcing of deception?
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Does Allah say that we must believe in the messenger and follow hadith in which so many sayings are fabricated?
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Science of hadith talks about investigating narrators' truthfulness. What tools did they use to analyze the truthfulness of people died hundred years ago?
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Can you use support from Quran that Shafi was right when he said hikmah means sunnah? Unfortunately, he did't do it in his own writing.
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Do you really believe that pious people like sahabas discussed and even scattered around stories of Prophet Muhammad's sex life and bathroom activities?
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Do you really believe Prophet's wife Aisha talked about her intimate moments with a bunch of men and women?
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What would be your reaction if you come to know that your wife has been going around the neighborhood spreading details of what you do during sex?
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Why the great narrator of 2000 hadiths is called Abu Hurairah throughout the hadith books instead of Abd al-Rahman which happens to be his Islamic name?
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What is the definition of sahih according to Bukhari?
-
Who sponsored hadith collection tour of Mr Bukhari?
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Do you consider prophet Ibrahim to be Muslim? If yes did he say "There is one God and Muhammad is his messenger? In that sense, who was Ibhrahim to you? (Don't bring up the idiotic hadith about it, bring Quranic proof).
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You claim that sahabas wrote down the hadiths. Why didn't they do the same for Quran several times like this?
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Can you prove Chinese whisper gives correct stories? Do you have a research paper to support your answer?
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We are told to believe that Sahians were honest and truthful. But then why are there three versions of the incident of why flogging of Ahmed ibn Hanbal was stopped?
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Would you do a standardized exam by reading its prep book containing contradicting statements?
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Bukhari came around 230 years after the prophet passed. How did the Muslims practice Islam about 10 years before Bukhair collected them?
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Out of 600,000, only 6,000 were seen as authentic by Bukhari. Does this mean the early Muslims all follow a huge amount of false hadiths?
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Can you swear that all hadiths found in the books are correct? If not why do you tell others to accept them?
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Allah proves that he is protecting the Quran through its Binary Symmetric structure and by giving Muslims the power to memorize the entire book. What such proof do you have that he is protecting hadiths also?
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The prophet is dead, he annot explain anything any more. Whagever he explained he explained personally to whoever listened to him in his time. If it wassomething hat should have been handed down forever i would have been included in qur'an. he Qur'an is a unit, complete, complete,complete,complete. We have with that the seal of prophecy. The propet was the seal. He is dead. We have to conformto wht he got from God. What he got fromGod that we are certain of is just the qur'an. Any other thingmust be taken for whatever it may be worth, but not as proof of anything or any command of the prophet or God whatsoever, because we would be relying in things which lack any proof of authenticity or faithfulness to anything uttered by the prophet and without all the context thatmight be pertinent. All that we need for that is in the qur'an. The Qur'an gives context when it is needed. To presume that te Qur'an lcks something makes of God a lier (astaghfirullah) whe He says it is complete.
Salaam
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I wonder how many percent of people who pose these kind of challenges really are ready to listen, ponder and potentially change. Sadly, people who put up challenges tend to be in a defensive mode where their first and foremost premise is that the opposing idea is plain wrong. Such people are not interested in new points of view. Therefore, answering challenges are usually a waste of time.
Of course, sometimes, people do learn from it, but I guess we're talking about bystanders who witness the debate. But trying to convince the challengers is often nothing but futile. So, I guess there is still value in debating ignorance and faulty logic, but one needs to be careful not to sink to the same level of idiotic entanglement in theoretical and lifeless arguments. Actually, stupidity must be confronted, but the real challenge is how to do this in the best possible manner without lowering oneself to the same level of black-white emotional "thinking" which characterizes most opinions of this world.
Peace
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Peace Zulf.
I also wonder the same.
For me every day is a challenge to take care of my own things,never mind setting other people challenges?.
Even waking up in the morning and minding my affairs is a big challenge to me nowadays.
Why would I want to challenge someone else to prove to me what I need to prove myself for me?
I need to search and prove it for myself anyway,even if they give me their proof?
May be the title of the thread should read Can someone please show me why Qoran alone/only to be followed" or something like that asked in a pleasant way?
At the end of the day one still needs to do their own checking.
I also agree it is nice to see many other views and ponder , reflect on what is good, bad and indifferent
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
You have already got your answers. But just ask them the following questions
-
How do you connect the following obeying the messenger = obeying bukhari's hadith books?
-
Why call a religious book Sahih al-Bukhari or Jami` at-Tirmidhi instead of Sahih Traditions of Muhammad if the hadiths came from Prophet Muhammad?
-
If hadiths are supposed to explain Quran, why did they leave out the scientific facts found in its verses which later nonMuslims had to show to Muslims?
-
If hadiths are supposed to explain Quran why did they leave out the following Surahs 23, 27, 29, 35, 51, 57, 58, 64, 67, 69, 70, 73, 76, 81, 82, 86, 88, 89, 90, 94, 100, 101, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, and 109?
-
Where are the original manuscripts of Bukhari showing the application of hadith science in his work?
-
Bukhari's collected hadiths were preserved, but why was his first biography allowed to be lost?
-
Shafi was known as the architect of Islam, meaning he was such an important person. Then why very little is known about his earlier days and why his first biography is also lost?
-
How did Bukhari hear 600,000 hadiths from 1,000 men when his admirer and teacher Ibn Hanbal with whom he worked knew millions of hadiths which he tried to even live passionately and almost got him prophethood?
-
How many people went on tour with Mr Bukhari to collect hadiths? Not known? Move to next question.
-
It is claimed that Bukhari traveled to places also to collect hadiths. Who went to verify he did so by meeting the same people from whom he collected the hadiths?
-
Where in Quran Sunnah of Prophet is mentioned?
-
Hadiths say "kill exMuslims". Does this mean in order to stay alive they should "pretend" to be Muslim? Isn't this forcing of deception?
-
Does Allah say that we must believe in the messenger and follow hadith in which so many sayings are fabricated?
-
Science of hadith talks about investigating narrators' truthfulness. What tools did they use to analyze the truthfulness of people died hundred years ago?
-
Can you use support from Quran that Shafi was right when he said hikmah means sunnah? Unfortunately, he did't do it in his own writing.
-
Do you really believe that pious people like sahabas discussed and even scattered around stories of Prophet Muhammad's sex life and bathroom activities?
-
Do you really believe Prophet's wife Aisha talked about her intimate moments with a bunch of men and women?
-
What would be your reaction if you come to know that your wife has been going around the neighborhood spreading details of what you do during sex?
-
Why the great narrator of 2000 hadiths is called Abu Hurairah throughout the hadith books instead of Abd al-Rahman which happens to be his Islamic name?
-
What is the definition of sahih according to Bukhari?
-
Who sponsored hadith collection tour of Mr Bukhari?
-
Do you consider prophet Ibrahim to be Muslim? If yes did he say "There is one God and Muhammad is his messenger? In that sense, who was Ibhrahim to you? (Don't bring up the idiotic hadith about it, bring Quranic proof).
-
You claim that sahabas wrote down the hadiths. Why didn't they do the same for Quran several times like this?
-
Can you prove Chinese whisper gives correct stories? Do you have a research paper to support your answer?
-
We are told to believe that Sahians were honest and truthful. But then why are there three versions of the incident of why flogging of Ahmed ibn Hanbal was stopped?
-
Would you do a standardized exam by reading its prep book containing contradicting statements?
-
Bukhari came around 230 years after the prophet passed. How did the Muslims practice Islam about 10 years before Bukhair collected them?
-
Out of 600,000, only 6,000 were seen as authentic by Bukhari. Does this mean the early Muslims all follow a huge amount of false hadiths?
-
Can you swear that all hadiths found in the books are correct? If not why do you tell others to accept them?
-
Allah proves that he is protecting the Quran through its Binary Symmetric structure and by giving Muslims the power to memorize the entire book. What such proof do you have that he is protecting hadiths also?
Peace Reel
Excellent questions.I'm gonna have to bookmark it. Btw, have you confronted a sectarian with these questions? If yes, how did they react?
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You have already got your answers. But just ask them the following questions
-
How do you connect the following obeying the messenger = obeying bukhari's hadith books?
-
Why call a religious book Sahih al-Bukhari or Jami` at-Tirmidhi instead of Sahih Traditions of Muhammad if the hadiths came from Prophet Muhammad?
-
If hadiths are supposed to explain Quran, why did they leave out the scientific facts found in its verses which later nonMuslims had to show to Muslims?
-
If hadiths are supposed to explain Quran why did they leave out the following Surahs 23, 27, 29, 35, 51, 57, 58, 64, 67, 69, 70, 73, 76, 81, 82, 86, 88, 89, 90, 94, 100, 101, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, and 109?
-
Where are the original manuscripts of Bukhari showing the application of hadith science in his work?
-
Bukhari's collected hadiths were preserved, but why was his first biography allowed to be lost?
-
Shafi was known as the architect of Islam, meaning he was such an important person. Then why very little is known about his earlier days and why his first biography is also lost?
-
How did Bukhari hear 600,000 hadiths from 1,000 men when his admirer and teacher Ibn Hanbal with whom he worked knew millions of hadiths which he tried to even live passionately and almost got him prophethood?
-
How many people went on tour with Mr Bukhari to collect hadiths? Not known? Move to next question.
-
It is claimed that Bukhari traveled to places also to collect hadiths. Who went to verify he did so by meeting the same people from whom he collected the hadiths?
-
Where in Quran Sunnah of Prophet is mentioned?
-
Hadiths say "kill exMuslims". Does this mean in order to stay alive they should "pretend" to be Muslim? Isn't this forcing of deception?
-
Does Allah say that we must believe in the messenger and follow hadith in which so many sayings are fabricated?
-
Science of hadith talks about investigating narrators' truthfulness. What tools did they use to analyze the truthfulness of people died hundred years ago?
-
Can you use support from Quran that Shafi was right when he said hikmah means sunnah? Unfortunately, he did't do it in his own writing.
-
Do you really believe that pious people like sahabas discussed and even scattered around stories of Prophet Muhammad's sex life and bathroom activities?
-
Do you really believe Prophet's wife Aisha talked about her intimate moments with a bunch of men and women?
-
What would be your reaction if you come to know that your wife has been going around the neighborhood spreading details of what you do during sex?
-
Why the great narrator of 2000 hadiths is called Abu Hurairah throughout the hadith books instead of Abd al-Rahman which happens to be his Islamic name?
-
What is the definition of sahih according to Bukhari?
-
Who sponsored hadith collection tour of Mr Bukhari?
-
Do you consider prophet Ibrahim to be Muslim? If yes did he say "There is one God and Muhammad is his messenger? In that sense, who was Ibhrahim to you? (Don't bring up the idiotic hadith about it, bring Quranic proof).
-
You claim that sahabas wrote down the hadiths. Why didn't they do the same for Quran several times like this?
-
Can you prove Chinese whisper gives correct stories? Do you have a research paper to support your answer?
-
We are told to believe that Sahians were honest and truthful. But then why are there three versions of the incident of why flogging of Ahmed ibn Hanbal was stopped?
-
Would you do a standardized exam by reading its prep book containing contradicting statements?
-
Bukhari came around 230 years after the prophet passed. How did the Muslims practice Islam about 10 years before Bukhair collected them?
-
Out of 600,000, only 6,000 were seen as authentic by Bukhari. Does this mean the early Muslims all follow a huge amount of false hadiths?
-
Can you swear that all hadiths found in the books are correct? If not why do you tell others to accept them?
-
Allah proves that he is protecting the Quran through its Binary Symmetric structure and by giving Muslims the power to memorize the entire book. What such proof do you have that he is protecting hadiths also?
Thank you for your time, i appreciate the efforts
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this has, god willing probably already been covered, but, i believe this leaves no room for any argument against following the quran alone as a source of law
"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?" 6114
"And We brought down to you the scripture, truthfully, confirming what is present of the scripture, and superseding it. So rule among them in accordance with what God has brought down, and do not follow their wishes away from the truth that came to you." 548
theese verses leave little room for misinterperetation, its obvious the Quran is fully detailed, and that we should follow it not follow anything contrary to it ( i.e Hadith)
and in regards to Hadith themselves...
"So in which Hadith, other than this, do they believe" 7750
"These are God's revelations that We recite to you truthfully. In which hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?" 456
"Among the people, there is one who trades in baseless hadith to mislead from the path of God without knowledge and he does it as a mockery. For these is a humiliating punishment.? 316
" ..... This (Quran) is not fabricated hadith, but an authentication of what is with you, a detailed account of all things and guidance and mercy for people who believe." 12111
God obviously dissapproves of Hadith, sadly, the hadith followers even follow there hadiths, to find out the meaning of the word hadith ( a logical fallacy; circular logic ) which they have decided in the quran actualy is talking about Music and Poetry. an obvious falsehood, which contradicts many other verses in the Quran.
Some people get around this by saying, well hadith are just advice (or some other excuse), but we have to follow the Sunnah. However, i cannot even see any logic in that because the Sunnah is just the the practice of the hadith... but, god has already covered all angles (as he tells us, he revealed the book fully detailed)
"Such was the sunna of God for those who have passed on before. You will find that there is no substitute for the sunna of God." 3362
Here we see you cant substitute Gods sunnah for the Scholars lies attributed to Muhammad.
Peace.
