Why every ones afraid
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It happens that I make off-topic posts, yes, but in many cases they are actually related to what people discuss even if the people themselves are going off-topic. In a certain case you also accused me of off-topic when my input was actually related to the thread.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I say most of what you post is irrelevant to the subject matter of the threads you post in.
However, tell me how many people lately in this thread have followed the thread's topic, but it seems that you are quite interested in highlighting me in particular for some reason.
Yes, you're correct each of us here is guilty of going off topic in this instance. The point I was making by singling out yourself is that you're singlehandedly flooding Free-Minds with off-topic posts - and forgive me for being so blunt - but quite frankly, useless gibberish.
Well, in fact I do usually break everything down into tiny bits and even morphemes. That you do not consider my input as "backed up" is not really my problem as I back my arguments up to the point possible and I do often refer to lexical definitions as well. In the end it is for you to accept or reject as it always is. When it comes to this laughable condition of Quran being a total hoax in its interpretation then obviously it is difficult to have stopping power, but I do what I can.
And this is what it all boils down to, I get on with you fine until you start behaving deceptively, which is something I will not tolerate.
You don't know the first thing about Linguistics and you clearly don't know Arabic, I know this from the sheer corpus of factual errors you write on both subjects.
You read snippets of information from the internet and then repost them as if you're fluent in Fus7a and you parade around very arrogantly indeed making false claims about your the levels of your knowledge. If you're going to put yourself on such a high pedestal, someone will come to knock you down.
And I do keep my heaviest posts to another forum since I know that my perception is not exactly in line with this forum's ideas and I do actually not seek conflict albeit I wish to help people out of their fog if I can.
Yes, this 'other forum' is one you've made yourself with very few posts or members.
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Gentlemen, these pitiful ad hominem exchanges shall cease immediately.
They are not only off-topic, but are useless to those who are using this forum to earnestly pursue the truth.
Please observe the forum rules.
How ironic, your use of 'pitiful' can itself be considered ad hominem! D
I disagree that they stand in the way of pursuing truth, the issue I have is that certain behaviour from members at Free-Minds actively stifles that very same thing.
In all fairness to Henrick, it was only myself making ad hominem points.
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Peace Uq and everyone,
In terms of forming a physical community of QAs, currently, I don't see the harm, but I don't see the need either. Maybe when the QA movement gathers momentum and our numbers increase, it may be necessary to form a physical community for organisational purposes, however, such communities tend to form naturally without any need for consciously active assembly.
Time will tell.
Very interesting thoughts Uq. I think you raise some very good points in your post. And I like your prudent and pragmatic/realistic approach to start a physical community of QAs (i.e. Quranic community). I have written a post (in another thread in FM) where I shared some of my thoughts about starting a Quranic community. And it seems that our views are similar. If you haven't read my post, I recommend it. You might find it interesting. I would like to share it (the post) here.
Peace Man of Faith,
As far as I know, people who follow monotheism (Quranic islam) don't need an anarchic community in order to serve the God. Also, I don't think that monotheists need an anarchic community to accomplish their purpose in life. Therefore, I don't think an anarchic community is necessary. I think if someone wants to join/establish such a community, then he/she should do a "cost-benefit analysis." And if he/she comes to the conclusion that he/she will lose more than he/she gains, then he/she should abandon the idea of joining/establishing such a community. But these are my views. And everyone might not agree. So everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
As mentioned earlier, I don't think that monotheists need an anarchic community to accomplish their purpose in life. Hence there is no need for an anarchic community, in my opinion. There are some clues to what the purpose/meaning of life might be in verse 117 and 187 in the Quran, by the way.
Quran 117 He is the One who has created the heavens and the earth in six days, and His Throne was upon the water; so as to test who from among you works the best. And when you say "You will be resurrected after the death," those who have rejected say "This is but clear magic!"
Quran 187 We have made what is on the earth an adornment for them, so that We will test them as to which of them is best in works.
In my first post in this thread, I said that it seems that anarchy is incompatible with the Quran. But I am open to reconsider my view. Because my view might be wrong. The Quran suggests that there is no compulsion in islam (see verse 2256). Hence if a group of people (e.g. monotheists) want to start an anarchic community, it seems that the Quran allows them to start such a community. But even if the Quran allows them to start such a community, this doesn't necessarily mean that the Quran encourages monotheists to establish such a community. From my understanding of the Quran, this highly inclusive, practical/functional and reality-based text, encourages monotheists to be a part of the world community. I believe that when people are a part of the world community, they can serve a huge amount of people. They can be a part of the solutions to the current challenges humanity faces in this day and age, and the challenges humanity will face in the future. Also, they can create social reforms and strive to make the world a better place for everyone. In my view, the Quran doesn't encourage monotheists to seclude themselves by creating an anarchic community. Even if an anarchic community is compatible with the teachings of the Quran, this doesn't necessarily mean that the Quran encourages monotheists to join/establish such a community. This is important to keep in mind, in my opinion.
I think joining/establishing a Quranic community, is closer to the spirit of the Quranic message. But even such a community seems to be impractical and exclusive. But I might be wrong. Although I doubt that I will ever join/establish a Quranic community, I don't believe that such a community is a bad idea. And I am open to join/establish a Quranic community with other monotheists in the future. However, if I am going to join/establish such a community with others, then I think the benefits of starting such a community must be more than the costs. Also, I think there is a possibility that a Quranic community will turn into a sectarian community. According to the teachings of the Quran, humanity is one nation (see verse 41, 1019, 3022 and 4913). And the Quran doesn't seem to support/allow sects (see verse 6159, 3022, 4213, 4214 and 984). In addition to that, there are a few verses in the Quran which seem to suggest that people should fight oppression (create reforms) until the systems in their societies become divine/godly (see verse 2193 and 839). So if it is possible to create a divine/godly system in the world community, then what is the point of creating a Quranic community? I think it is worthwhile to ponder upon this question.
In my view, the Quran indirectly encourages monotheists to be a part of the world community and live among people of all faiths/ideologies/lifestyles. The Quran seems to suggest that monotheists who acknowledge and promote reforms will be rewarded with security and be enabled to establish their system (deen) in their lifetime.
Quran 2455 God promises those among you who acknowledge and promote reforms, that He will make them successors on earth, as He made successors of those before them, He will enable for them their system which He has approved for them, and He will substitute security for them in place of fear, that they serve Me and do not associate anything with Me. As for those who reject after that, they are the transgressors.
In verse 2455 above, the Quran suggests that those (monotheists) who acknowledge and promote reforms will be rewarded with security and be enabled to establish their system (deen) in their lifetime. Hence I think this verse makes the whole idea of starting an anarchic community obsolete. Because those who acknowledge and promote reforms, will be rewarded with security and be enabled to establish their system in their lifetime. Therefore there is no need for an anarchic community, in my opinion. But each to their own, I guess.
I thought I would mention that I have edited the post above to make it clearer. There were a few errors in the post that I have fixed and some sentences that I have reformulated.
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Taro Hiroshi,
Please don't stop sending people messages on my account. I, myself, have taken it upon myself many times to send PMs to members on here because I feel it is a community even if you haven't yet conversed with someone. Having said that, in real life, I talk to random people all of the time. (I'm from Yorkshire and we're famous for it in England. Now, there's a fact!) However, as in normal conversation, if someone does not respond to me or seems disinterested or lacking interest, I don't attempt to continue the conversation. I'm excessively selfish of my time and plan everything meticulously due to being extremely busy (particularly recently), therefore I simply don't have the time to read/ watch extra bits of literature although a part of me feels obliged to do so because you've made the effort to send it.
Anyhow, I apologise if I upset you. That was not my aim. I could have been more diplomatic in my responses, but what a challenge it is to contend with, and attempt to subdue, one's ego. That's my own personal journey and I apologise if I caused you upset along the way.
Apologies to everyone for taking this off topic yet again!
God bless.
Salaam.
Sajda.
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May God's peace be upon you
I like the idea of meeting other free minders in person and have no fear of anybody here on this forum.
People on this forum can choose whether to interact with others and they have the freedom to listen or walk away.I would like to establish friendships with other Muslims who are non sectarian and would attend a gathering of non sectarian Muslims. There are currently similar gatherings for Progressive Muslims and Submitters who follow Rashid Khalifa and possibly local networks of free minder Muslims in different cities. However, they have very specific agendas whereas I was thinking of getting together for more general social and practical support. For example where those who come from the same geographical areas or areas of interest can meet in person and unite to do righteous projects or Quran readings. There could be a network of gatherings in different countries or could be one conference. Dubai has been suggested, however it may be politically difficult to organise a nonsectarian Muslim conference in UAE unless it was under the radar. Even though it may appear to be a liberal place religion wise it is conservative. For reasons if cost and time available it may be more useful to organise locally and have an ongoing blog on freeminds about events that are occurring in different places and then a summary or report back after the event. Those who want to connect in person can attend and those who don't can choose to read or not read the information posted in the blog. What do other free minders think?
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Sounds like a plan, but from taking an earlier straw poll I doubt most people here have the financial means to gather on anything more than on a national basis.
That being said your plan would have a better chance of working if the conferences were broken down by nation/region e.g.
Benelux Quran Alone Conference
Great Britain & Northern Ireland Quran Alone Conference
New England Quran Alone Conference
West Coast Quran Alone Conference
Iberian Quran Alone Conference
and so on... -
Brother, perhaps you could be more specific about what kind of unsolicited PMs which are not allowed here?
Because, I think that not all unsolicited private messages are bad.
I agree. Please note my use of the plural "messages". If it is multiple, and unwanted, then there is a potential problem that may warrant disciplinary action.
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I have met a user on the forum locally in Stockholm. The meeting was delightful.
I do not mention who due to privacy reasons unless the person mentions h-self.
I have no qualms about meeting people "in real life". A problem is that people may have qualms about meeting me due to prejudices laugh
Be safe
Amenuel -
Following on from Lena's suggestion perhaps it would be a good step forward to either have a poll or a thread for people who are willing to meet up to specifc their geographic location.
From then we would be able to be in a better position to decide where events can be organised.
Most of the people who have commented in the 13 pages of this thread must be interested in meeting there's no reason why meetings can't be held 2-4 weeks from now.
Henrick can organise the Scandinavian meeting, I can organise the UK meeting (unless anyone else wants to!) etc. etc. etc.
If national meetings aren't possible then there can be an Lower Scandinavia/Oslo area meeting and a Northern UK/Manchester area meeting and so on and so forth.
Where's the problem? group
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Peace Sajda and everyone,
Taro Hiroshi,
Please don't stop sending people messages on my account. I, myself, have taken it upon myself many times to send PMs to members on here because I feel it is a community even if you haven't yet conversed with someone. Having said that, in real life, I talk to random people all of the time. (I'm from Yorkshire and we're famous for it in England. Now, there's a fact!) However, as in normal conversation, if someone does not respond to me or seems disinterested or lacking interest, I don't attempt to continue the conversation. I'm excessively selfish of my time and plan everything meticulously due to being extremely busy (particularly recently), therefore I simply don't have the time to read/ watch extra bits of literature although a part of me feels obliged to do so because you've made the effort to send it.
Anyhow, I apologise if I upset you. That was not my aim. I could have been more diplomatic in my responses, but what a challenge it is to contend with, and attempt to subdue, one's ego. That's my own personal journey and I apologise if I caused you upset along the way.
Apologies to everyone for taking this off topic yet again!
God bless.
Salaam.
Sajda.
I don't expect you are anyone else to be perfect. Because I myself am not perfect. I have made a lot of mistakes in the past. And some of the mistakes I have made in the past might have been serious and enormous. Also, I still make a lot of mistakes. So who am I to judge anyone for making mistakes? We are only humans. Therefore, I believe that we are bound to make mistakes. Humans are imperfect beings. Even the messengers of God made mistakes (and several Quranic verses confirm this fact). So I think it is inevitable to make mistakes. But it seems that what sets us apart is our ability to learn from them. I believe that all mistakes are forgivable as long as we admit them, learn from them and try our best to never repeat them again.
Personally, I treat people how I would want them to treat me (i.e. the Golden rule). In my view, the Golden rule is one of the most insightful moral maxims (ethical statements) that exists. And in my view, another of the most insightful moral maxims, is the Silver rule. And the Silver rule states the following Do not unto others what you would not have them do unto you." Also, another of the most insightful moral maxims is the Brazen rule IMO. And the Brazen rule states the following "Repay kindness with kindness, but repay evil with justice." I would also like to share some information about another rule here. And that rule is the Golden-plated Brazen rule. To me, it seems that the most moral/ethical rule is the Golden-plated Brazen rule. I would like to share a few paragraphs from the book "Quran A reformist translation" with you. The book (which is a translation of the Quran) is written by Edip Yuksel, Layth Saleh al-Shaiban and Martha Schulte-Nafeh. I consider the information (in the book) about the Golden-plated Brazen rule very interesting and insightful.
A few paragraphs from page 161 in the book
"Empirical studies on groups have shown that the golden-plated brazen rule is the most efficient in reducing negative behaviors in a community abiding by the rule, since the rule has both deterrence and guiding components... The Golden rule, on the other hand, does not correspond to the reality of human nature; it rewards those who wish to take advantage of the other party's niceness. Therefore, though the golden rule is the most popular rule on the lips of people, it is the least used rule in world affairs. It might have some merits in small groups with intimate relations, but we do not have evidence for that.
The Quran is a book of reality, and its instructions involving social issues consider the side effects of freedom. Thus, the Quran recommends us to employ the golden-plated brazen rule. "If the enemy inclines toward peace, do you also incline toward peace" (861; 490; 4134). Other verses encouraging forgiveness and patience in the practice of retaliation (2178; 16126, etc.), make the Quranic rule a "Golden-plated Brazen Rule," the most efficient rule in promoting goodness and discouraging crimes."
Sajda, I commend you for admitting that you made a mistake. Because it takes courage and humility to do that IMO. I believe it takes courage and humility to do what is right. And it seems that a man/woman who does what is right, is a real man/woman. I myself could have been more diplomatic/peaceful in my posts to you. And I confess that I was a little blunt.
Anyway, I appreciate your apology, thank you
Peace and best wishes,
Taro Hiroshi
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Hello Osman,
Henrick can organise the Scandinavian meeting, I can organise the UK meeting (unless anyone else wants to!) etc. etc. etc.
I only know perhaps 2-3 people from Sweden on this forum whereof one I have already met.
By the way, I prefer that you address me Amenuel/Emanuel, my given birth name by my father. A lot of people seem very insistent on calling me by that other name. Either way, it does not really matter, but it may cause some confusion of who someone is talking about.
Be safe
Amenuel -
I don't expect you are anyone else to be perfect.
There is an error in my last post in this thread.
Let me correct the error
I don't expect you or anyone else to be perfect.
As I have mentioned before, mistakes are inevitable. Especially when it comes to me
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Hello Osman,
I only know perhaps 2-3 people from Sweden on this forum whereof one I have already met.
By the way, I prefer that you address me Amenuel/Emanuel, my given birth name by my father. A lot of people seem very insistent on calling me by that other name. Either way, it does not really matter, but it may cause some confusion of who someone is talking about.
Be safe
AmenuelMy apologies Amenuel.
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No worries, Osman.
