Edip yuksel agrees HAJJ does NOT mean pilgrimage, he says "debate"
-
I consider the root to be Ha-Waw-Jim in Lane's and that its connotation is (divine) service, to put aside one's own interests for a greater cause, and that is not necessarily pilgrimage in my opinion but charity work or spreading the true perception of the faith like helping people open their eyes.
That is my current interpretation.
Salaam
-
Are you of the school that one can make up the root as one wishes or there has to be an actual methodology that can be checked/verified?
lol
-
No, but roots with similar letters are also very similar in meaning. The word I suggested has not any particularly different meaning than . As for those who made up meanings, they have already caused the damage.
-
If hajj is debate, then why do we need to shave our heads for just a debate???
-
The root appears to imply strong intention to accomplish something together with probably related roots.
Haa-Jiim-Jiim = to intend to a certain target, aim at, repair, undertake, repaired/betook himself to or towards a person / place / object of veneration/respect/honour, went/visit frequently/repeatedly, pilgrimage.
Overcome another by/in argument/evidences/proofs/testimonies, plead, contend/argue/dispute.
Refrain/abstain.I would consider the word to do to commitment work, much like voluntary work, but it depends on the word form. In its raw form it would merely imply "firm intention/undertaking".
The root may be related to this one as well
Ha-Waw-Jiim (Ha-Alif-Jim) = To desire, be in want of, need, require, to find it necessary to do or that one should do a thing, to seek or seek after, to be poor or in poverty (out of want or need), to lead one or oneself aside, forsake one's own way, incline to a person.
Words may find relationship to roots that contain similar letters (due to the nature of the language family)
Ha-Jiim-Ba = something which hinders/prevents/precludes/conceals/covers/protects/intervenes, hid, seclude, to veil/conceal/cover/hide a thing, intervene between two things.
Ha-Jiim-Ra = To deprive from, harden, hide, resist, forbid, prevent, hinder, prohibit access (to a place). To prevent/hinder/debar/withhold/restrain from a person or thing, prohibit/forbid/inhibit/interdict, to make boundary or enclose a thing, burn a mark around the eye of a camel or beast, to surround, make a thing unlawful or unallowable to a person, to be emboldened or encouraged, to slaughter by cutting the throat. hajar - a rock/stone or mass of rock.
Ha-Jiim-Zay = To withhold, make a camel lie down, stop, restrain, prevent. To prevent/hinder/impede/withhold/restrain/debar a person or thing, to conceal, to intervene, to make or form a separation/partition/fence/barrier, make an obstacle or obstruction between two people, to separate or part two people or two things, wrap or tie a thing around one's waist, defend oneself with a thing.
Ha-Jiim-(Jiim) means "be firm onward on something" (very basic form from which the other ones are derived) Ha-Jiim-Ra means "hard" basically, and Ha-Jiim-Ba means to "something that prevents/hinders or intervenes by firmness" and Ha-Jiim-Zay restrain it firmly (bondage). All these presented roots are interrelated linguistically.
Conclusion Ancient lexicons contain the proper definitions right before the very eyes of people but they go for other ones and usually listen to their ignorant scholars.
Be safe
Amenuel -
People want peace and blessings and this practice of pilgrimage, for centuries has given them this. Now even though this is hijacked by more empty rituals.
If God is seen as common goodness provider, then Hajj(pilgrimage, not restricted to one place) will become a great idea/practice to dee-stress and gain blessings from our creator.
-
Still wondering why we need to shave our heads for just a debate....
-
People want peace and blessings and this practice of pilgrimage, for centuries has given them this. Now even though this is hijacked by more empty rituals.
If God is seen as common goodness provider, then Hajj(pilgrimage, not restricted to one place) will become a great idea/practice to dee-stress and gain blessings from our creator.
At the end of the day, it's delusion. Bukharian rituals offer nothing but delusion. Don't worry though, that black rock will forgive them for their sins when they kiss it. rotfl
-
At the end of the day, it's delusion. Bukharian rituals offer nothing but delusion. Don't worry though, that black rock will forgive them for their sins when they kiss it. rotfl
The power of idolatry.
Be safe
Amenuel -
At the end of the day, it's delusion. Bukharian rituals offer nothing but delusion. Don't worry though, that black rock will forgive them for their sins when they kiss it. rotfl
I understand you and am not Hadith follower, but then i like the Hajj pilgrimage just like the Prayer ritual the Salat, the Fasting and many more, each followed just to balance our life style and Iam not expecting heaven or hell for following or not following those, but just expecting goodness out of my Source who is only be able to give those for me. We fail to understand that Totality is God and so ignore its signs surrounding us.
No black rock or book can give you blessings, but faith in His support will give us the blessings, the faith or the Idea that Hes the controller and to Him we return. Indeed for me a Black rock can represent better about Him, more than the word "Allah" or even the miracle of 19s in Quran.
-
If hajj is debate, then why do we need to shave our heads for just a debate???
I have not been here since few years... I came accross this discussion by chance.
Here is my brief answer
Hajj is annual conference where peacemakers discuss social, political and economic issues among themselves. Participants should be groomed. Long hair and beard might be difficult to clean and might create lice, etc problem... The instructions and prohibitions during hajj conference have good reasons RELEVANT to the event.
Peace,
Edip -
I have not been here since few years... I came accross this discussion by chance.
Here is my brief answer
Hajj is annual conference where peacemakers discuss social, political and economic issues among themselves. Participants should be groomed. Long hair and beard might be difficult to clean and might create lice, etc problem... The instructions and prohibitions during hajj conference have good reasons RELEVANT to the event.
Peace,
EdipPeace Edip
I believe that shaving your head for just a debate seems silly don't you think? And for just a debate why are land animals are prohibited and we're only supposed to eat sea animals and some sea animals are toxic for example puffer fish but the quran said all sea animals are permissible? I'm not an atheist or anything but when i read one of the quran's passage on how the sun can be fold up, and the sky can fall even though they're made of gas, and bones are formed before flesh and the moon has its own light according to the quran...I'm starting to doubt the quran's scientific and universal purpose Edip...I don't mean no disrespect
Welcome back Edip
-
Peace Edip.
When you say "Peacemakers",could these include disbelievers as well?
Or are these "Peacemakers" the believers only?
Just asking in general,as some instructions in Qoran are directed to the believers?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
peace Edip,
Like you, I used to think of al hajj as the conference, but this is only one small part of it. See here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.htmlWith regard to head shaving, this interpretation has already been shown to be full of flaws
2196 http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-2196-critical-thinking.html
4827 http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.htmlSince writing the 2196 article above, no-one, to my knowledge has answered it successfully, except by saying this is an exception and no obvious reason is given for it. In other words, they have no idea why it says what it says.
-
Stop making things up people use reason and logic,
What you are prescribing is but twisted logic. If it is a conference and men are invited to it from around every place on camels and so forth are they not traveling there? To a distinct location?
Yes, when the righteous gather they will discuss matters and refer them to Allah but to entail that debate was purpose is purposterous. Bring your evidence Edip and those alike?
BRING YOUR EVIDENCE from the QURAN.
It's parts are oft repeated, it is made easy for you for remembrance.
BRING FORTH WHAT YOU CLAIM FROM THAT WHICH ALLAH has revealed not your mouths!
At least in translation the word debate is not even relevant in the context at all.STOP MAKING STUFF UP
275 Did you expect that they would believe with you, when a group of them had heard the words of God then altered them knowingly after having understood?
276 And when they come across those who believe, they say ?We believe!? And when they are alone with each other they say ?Why do you inform them of what God has said to us? Then they would use it in argument against us at your Lord. Do you not comprehend??
277 Do they not know that God knows what they conceal and what they declare?
278 And among them are Gentiles who do not know the Book except by hearsay, and they only conjecture.Use the BOOK FIRMLY
The word argument used in the Quran appears between the believes and disbelievers4215 For that, you shall preach and be upright, as you have been commanded, and do not follow their wishes. And say ?I believe in all that God has sent down as a Book, and I was commanded to be with justice between you. God is our Lord and your Lord. We have our deeds and you have your deeds. There is no argument between us and you. God will gather us all together, and to Him is the ultimate destiny.?
Even here above we are taught to refrain from arguing because in the end
6149 Say ?With God is the decisive argument. If He wished He would have guided you all.?
Why would there be a mandate for believes to gather into one location and debate?
Especially with all the rites prescribed by the Quran for the hajj how can you even make such a claim?
Turn to GOD altogether firmly if you are believers
-
At least he cannot make something up that someone else has already done. At worst he can change one invention for another. At least Edip made something useful out of his idea of Hajj, which is a good thing.
Be safe
Amenuel -
At least he cannot make something up that someone else has already done. At worst he can change one invention for another. At least Edip made something useful out of his idea of Hajj, which is a good thing.
Be safe
AmenuelI hope you realize none of what you said made any sense. Did you just decide to open up your mouth and talk? Are you like a piece of wood propped up?
I am not regarding to his entire idea but the purpose. Thats what you should focus on Amenuel.
Where is the support for such a claim in the Scripture I'm tired of hearing your opinions YOU especially.
You went to school and written essays and papers learn how to cite please. -
If it did not make any sense then perhaps you ought to work on your comprehension. I think even a younger child could understand what I wrote.
My support is in the scripture, you just have to be able to read it properly. Some of what I say can be made out even with the sectarian interpretation that we have.
Edip's interpretation I have not said is right, but it is at least more towards the real interpretation than "pilgrimage", it is remotely close you can say.
What I argue concerning Hajj is lexically correct and is a definition found in ancient lexicons. My opinion or not, it is how I interpret it and I have spent time researching it too. I am not sure if you know what is my interpretation though, I made some posts a while ago.
Be safe
Amenuel
