Non-Religious newbie

Man_of_Faith

Hello,

Welcome to the forum.

No need for conversion to any religion, just stay the way you are without religion and realize yourself as a good man and know yourself.

Be well

Wakas

There are a lot of stereotypes and rumors about Islam where I live, and I want to learn about it and hope to eliminate as many of the stereotypes and rumors as I can.

Here is a decent place to start http//misconceptions-about-islam.com

Let us know your thoughts after.

Timotheus

Peace brother,

I started off In a similar situation, all i can say is pursue the truth and never stop searching, thats what i did untill i found islam.

being open minded is one of the greatest gifts that anyone can have, never give it up not matter what. I highly recommend researching Islam through this site or others based on the Quran Alone, there are many misconceptions out there if anything, its good to be informed even if you do not choose islam.

if you have any queries you can find my facebook link on my profile, otherwise..
peace

Jafar

I am now an Atheist, although I hate that word because of the negative connotation it carries. I also hate hurting people's feelings or offending people.

Well Atheism is also a religion..
If you're truly a non-religious you will not even identify yourself towards one or merely one name of religion.

I have no interest in converting to Islam, merely keeping an open mind and educating myself in the field of Religion.

Good for you.. being open minded is a good attitude..
And oh don't forget to convert out from the religion of Atheism too..

If you don't care about believing in a God or Deity too much, then I would recommend for you to learn some "eastern tradition", such as Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism. No they're not atheist but they don't discuss God or any deity within their discourse.

I know enough about Jesus, but I know almost nothing about any other faith.

Jesus was a non-religious too..

welcome

Osman

Welcome

Student_of_Allah

Shalom Aleikhem Fred,

Hello! I am a young man who was given a link to this website by a Muslim on a different site called Omegle. Here are a few things that I would like to point out about myself.

I was born and raised a Christian. I am 17 years old, living in the USA.

I am now an Atheist, although I hate that word because of the negative connotation it carries. I also hate hurting people's feelings or offending people.

I have no interest in converting to Islam, merely keeping an open mind and educating myself in the field of Religion.

I read the book Life of Pi, and that is what made me decide to learn about all the different religions out there. I highly recommend that book for anybody who is on this or any religious forum. I know enough about Jesus, but I know almost nothing about any other faith.

There are a lot of stereotypes and rumors about Islam where I live, and I want to learn about it and hope to eliminate as many of the stereotypes and rumors as I can.

The trouble is that, much like Christianity, Islam doesn't have any particular one true definition. Every sect/group has their story and beliefs. To keep things simple, you can start with reading the Qur'an and may be watching documentaries about Islam on youtube. The thing with documentaries is that they will be based on traditions and traditional beliefs and may end up misrepresenting the texts.

P.S. I have been a member of this forum for a long time now. I used to be a Muslim and now I am an atheist too.

Peace
---------------- Student of Allah

Student_of_Allah

Shalom Aleikhem Jafar,

Well Atheism is also a religion..
If you're truly a non-religious you will not even identify yourself towards one or merely one name of religion.

Good for you.. being open minded is a good attitude..
And oh don't forget to convert out from the religion of Atheism too..

Atheism is as much of a religion as abstinence is a sex position and not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Let me explain it if you don't get it

There is a claim that there is a God. A theist is the one who believes that the claim is true. An atheist is the one who isn't convinced that the claim is true. Therefore refuses to believe in that claim.

You don't need a religion to not buy into claims. If I claimed that I can fly and you are not convinced of the truth of that, does that make you religious? NO! You simply are not convinced of the truth of my claim. You aren't saying that you KNOW I can't fly, you seemly find no reason to believe that I CAN fly. They are not the same thing. 99% of theists I have this conversation can't tell the difference. I am guessing, just out of statistical odds that you can't either. Therefore, for the sake of the readers or you, I will try to explain the difference between not believing in that I can fly and believing that I can't fly

Imagine that we have a jar full of marbles. I claim that the number of marbles in the jar is even. You haven't counted them and so you don't know if they are even or odd. So you simply tell me "I have no reason to believe that they are even". Does that mean that you are saying that the number is odd? Of course not! In the same way, when an atheist refuses to buy into God claims, it doesn't mean that they are saying that there are no Gods. You don't need a religion to hold that position.

Unless of course your definition of "religion" is to not believe in a claim when you are not convinced of the truth of it. Here are the most common definitions of religion from Oxford Dictionary

1 The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods
ideas about the relationship between science and religion

1.1 A particular system of faith and worship
the world?s great religions

1.2 A pursuit or interest followed with great devotion
consumerism is the new religion

Since the person doesn't even believe in Gods, the first 2 definitions cannot be applied at all. Only definition 1.2 remains. That definition has NOTHING TO DO with the first 2 definitions. So even if you said that by "religion" you meant "interest followed with great devotion", you'd at best be comparing apples to oranges. Which is a logical fallacy.

It's like someone who sings really bad and we saying that they "butchered the song". We don't mean that they are not to be compared with butchers, people whose trade is cutting up and selling meat in a shop.

My point is, under no definition of that word does atheism become comparable to religion.

Jesus was a non-religious too..

You know the guy? Met him? Sounds like it. P

We don't really know much about it. Yes we may attempt to read about him from the gospels. However, the amount of stuff the gospels seem to have borrowed from other older myths about God-men, no reasonable person will have confidence in them to portray anything near accurate depiction of what the actual dude was like.

But I think I'd agree if what you meant to say was that according to the gospels, Jesus was unlike the mullahs.

Peace
-------------- Student of Allah

Jafar

Atheism is as much of a religion as abstinence is a sex position and not collecting stamps is a hobby.
My point is, under no definition of that word does atheism become comparable to religion.

Not correct... here's another similitude..

A claimed that "kuritukak" exist and try to enforce it upon others through any means, by force if necessary.
B claimed that "kuritukak" DO NOT exist and try to enforce it upon others through any means, by force if necessary.
Both A and B doesn't have exact definition or agreement of what "kuritukak" really is.

As such..
A is spreading the religion of "Kuritukak-ism" and B is spreading the religion of"A-Kuritukak-ism".
A and B is religious.

C doesn't really care whether "Kuritukak" exist or not, partly because he doesn't understand what the word really mean anyway, as thus he never enforce other to believe or not believe to the existence of "Kuritukak".
C is irreligious.

A will try to convert C to become "Kuritukakist"
B will try to convert C to become "Akuritukakist".

You know the guy? Met him? Sounds like it. P

We don't really know much about it. Yes we may attempt to read about him from the gospels. However, the amount of stuff the gospels seem to have borrowed from other older myths about God-men, no reasonable person will have confidence in them to portray anything near accurate depiction of what the actual dude was like.

Sure I just had a coffee with Jesus last week.
During the entire conversation he never asked me whether I believe in his divinity or not...
It seems to be that he doesn't really care about it.. or perhaps he's also confused on what "divinity" actually means.. just like me..

I actually don't care whether Jesus of the Gospel really exist or not.
If he did and we are living in the same era, I will invite him for a coffee and we'll become the best of buddies.

I will salute my hat off to those who dare tried to fight off religion.. especially his own religion..
From Jesus to Abraham to Socrates to Razi...

And oh.. there's no "God men" conception whatsoever in the Gospel, you must have such presumption from somewhere else.. but definitely not from the Gospel

Timotheus

First and foremost Islam is not a religion but the system with which God designed his creation

Invalid777

First and foremost Islam is not a religion but the system with which God designed his creation

Islam is a religion. islam isn't.

Student_of_Allah

Shalom Aleikhem,

Not correct... here's another similitude..

A claimed that "kuritukak" exist and try to enforce it upon others through any means, by force if necessary.
B claimed that "kuritukak" DO NOT exist and try to enforce it upon others through any means, by force if necessary.
Both A and B doesn't have exact definition or agreement of what "kuritukak" really is.

As such..
A is spreading the religion of "Kuritukak-ism" and B is spreading the religion of"A-Kuritukak-ism".
A and B is religious.

C doesn't really care whether "Kuritukak" exist or not, partly because he doesn't understand what the word really mean anyway, as thus he never enforce other to believe or not believe to the existence of "Kuritukak".
C is irreligious.

A will try to convert C to become "Kuritukakist"
B will try to convert C to become "Akuritukakist".

Where in the definition of atheism does it say that atheists claim that there is no God and then tries to ensure that people are forced to believe in their beliefs by any means necessary?

I'm sorry! I just can't have conversations like this if you are creating your own made up definitions of words like this.

Oxford dictionary

Definition of atheism in English
noun

Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

A theist or atheist doesn't necessarily have to have any other beliefs. Simply accepting the theistic claim that THERE IS A GOD, makes one a theist and NOT BELIEVING that claim makes one an atheist. From that point, both the theist and atheist can do whatever the hell they want to do. The theist can go follow a particular belief system of that God while the atheist goes around talking about how there are no Gods. But simply to be an atheist, you don't have to believe that there are no Gods. You simply have to disbelieve that there are Gods.

Anyway, if you will stick to your made up definition, then don't bother responding to my post at all. I am not interested in such a discourse where we twist meanings of words to that point. It's like arguing with someone about laptops not being fruits and then them having tell you that they call mangoes laptop! Therefore all laptops are fruits!

Peace
-------------- Student of Allah

Timotheus

Guys is it your intention to drive people who may be seeking clarity away from Islam with your fruitless argument? Why don't you start a thread to debate whether atheism is a religion

Jafar

Shalom Aleikhem,
Where in the definition of atheism does it say that atheists claim that there is no God and then tries to ensure that people are forced to believe in their beliefs by any means necessary?

I give you a real life example of Atheism religion by the state, ( - &#1084

http//img0.joyreactor.cc/pics/post/%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BC-%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8B-%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B8-%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%B8%D1%8F-185104.jpeg

"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God? all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
-- J Stalin

More example of Atheism Religion imposed by state
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism

I'm sorry! I just can't have conversations like this if you are creating your own made up definitions of words like this.

Emotion detected..
It seems that you are overtly religious about Atheism.

Student_of_Allah

Shalom Aleikhem,

I give you a real life example of Atheism religion by the state, ( - &#1084

http//img0.joyreactor.cc/pics/post/%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BC-%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8B-%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B8-%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%B8%D1%8F-185104.jpeg

"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God? all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
-- J Stalin

More example of Atheism Religion imposed by state
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism

Logic! Not even once!

Just because a state can adopt atheism doesn't make it a religion. Why is it that hard for you to get? If a dictator forced everyone to play football does that mean that football in on itself becomes a religion? NO! Are you really that naive? One can get religious about sports if they want to, that fact on it's own doesn't make sports a religion. brickwall

Emotion detected..
It seems that you are overtly religious about Atheism.

I am an emotional being and do get frustrated when adults don't get the importance of not making their own meanings up for words with existent meanings.

I am not religious about my atheism anymore than you are a pedophile about kids.

You're not a pedophile? Well, just like you, I don't use any dictionary definition for that word. I have my own definition of that word that I made up just like you do. )

Feels really good, doesn't it? To taste your own medicine.

Since you failed to produce any dictionary definition of atheism or religion that justifies your misrepresentation of atheism, I take it that even you know that you are making it up.

Peace
----------------- Student of Allah

Jafar

Shalom Aleikhem,

Logic! Not even once!

Just because a state can adopt atheism doesn't make it a religion. Why is it that hard for you to get? If a dictator forced everyone to play football does that mean that football in on itself becomes a religion? NO! Are you really that naive? One can get religious about sports if they want to, that fact on it's own doesn't make sports a religion. brickwall

Now you are starting to get the point.
Atheism can and has been turned into a RELIGION.
Football Clubism can and has been turned into a RELIGION.
We see Chelseaism, MUism, Juventusism... etc..

You said you want to get an evidence of Atheism is a religion?
I gave you one..

It's a lesson for you and also other reader.. to know the limit.

Those who claimed to be "Non Religious Atheist" can become a "Religious Atheist" once they

Identity themselves with such 'label' (ie I AM an Atheist) in similar manner as other religious do (ie I AM a Muslim, Christians etc..)
Strived to enforce their belief (ie Atheism) upon others.

Additional thing This group below has no difference with ISISr

League of Militant Atheists
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists

Student_of_Allah

Now you are starting to get the point.
Atheism can and has been turned into a RELIGION.
Football Clubism can and has been turned into a RELIGION.
We see Chelseaism, MUism, Juventusism... etc..

You said you want to get an evidence of Atheism is a religion?

Not really. I didn't ask for evidence of anyone turning atheism into a religion. I said that the fact that someone says that they are an atheist, doesn't mean that they are saying that atheism is their religion. For that reason, I used the dictionary to make my point. It's much like someone coming here and saying, "hey guys, I love football". Then you starting to talk about how he must stop saying that as that is a religion!

That is what I found to be a really unfounded thing to say. Virtually anything can be turned into a religion. Now what? We all should just shut the Ef up unless we want to be called religious? That just makes no sense.

Peace
------------ Student of Allah

Jafar

That is what I found to be a really unfounded thing to say. Virtually anything can be turned into a religion. Now what? We all should just shut the Ef up unless we want to be called religious? That just makes no sense.

Here's a better example

A Do you believe in God?
B NO ! I AM AN ATHEIST! And here's why I think believing in f&) God doesn't make any f() sense.. bla bla bla bla

Compared with

A Do you believe in God?
B What is God?
A Are you an Atheist an unbeliever in God?
B I never call or label myself as such.. what is God?
A God is bla bla bla bla (the explanation varied as definition of God varies)
B If that's the case, then I do not believe in the existence of the God as you've defined it.
A You're an Atheist then..
B Perhaps.. to your God.

And yes sometimes "shutting the F&*k up" is better than saying anything unproductive with bursting emotion.

Here's another good definition of "religious person" (independence of their religion / ism)

?If the people of religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed.?
Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi

The outrage / emotional burst happens because the religious person feel his/her ego is being attacked when he sees that his / her identity is being attacked. (Islam, Christianity, Deity/God, Atheism, Nationality, Favorite Football Club etc..)
He / she is not defending his/her God or belief per se.. (that's BS) he/she's actually defending his / her ego.

The above instinct is embedded within human brain (survival instinct) thus commonly found on all human.
To remediate such condition it is advisable to not identifying yourselves to any -ism.

And that's why I advised the TS to unconvert himself from Atheism when he declared himself as Atheist.
Atheist and Non-Religious is not the same thing.

And suddenly you jumped into this thread...
Perhaps you were compelled to do so.. because your identity (Atheism) is being discussed here.

Student_of_Allah