Can some one help me out of this extreme frustration
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Hello Everyone.
Coming from a sunni background into the Quranists way of thinking and then understanding Quran/Islam myself as much as I can put my trust and knowledge and the fact that I learnt a lot from the folks on here.
However lately I am being comfortable with the fact that I believe in the supreme being the creator of everything as opposed to before when I believe in the creator through the books or religious thoughts. Now the free mind thinking approach makes me believe that there is a creator.The issue is that more I read and research, the more I feel drifting away from Books, Religion, Prophets or messengers etc etc and more closer I get into the one who creates and assemble everything around us in this universe. The books , religion, and messengers makes me feel limited into the belief while when am free from them which essentially means free from following a religion, I tend to become more closer to the supreme.
So what is happening ? I feel if I continue I might doubt everything written in books or even fall into the theory that a religion or books have been written by people who had a plan or the wise ones among folks then, however the requirement that they convey the supreme message is diminishing...
Can some one please help me as I do not want to be a person with no faith.
Cheers
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This is like hunger. If you feel like that may be you need a fast from the food you have had up til now, since it doesnot feed you, so you have an insteinctive reaction because that food, on top of everything, is what you used to eat when you ed a king of life from which you are very far now.
Don't force it. If you feel free to reserach and search for yourself or feel what you feel is God, that is good for you, provided you are always sincere, without any reservations to yourself and are not thinking of any judgement by anybody not even yourself. Aslong as your attempt is directed to be truthful to yourself, you need that.
Books like Qur'an are wonderful, but may you do need a diet and fast, because you did not eat it properly when you did or you did no have the right balance between different foods, too much Qur'an and not checking up with your own conscience or your own honest thought may have resulted in the nead to empty all that now and start filling the waterpot properly.
As long as you are scrupulously sincere and honest to yourself, don't worry, give everything its time and place. Now you are at what you are.
Salaam
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And people have issue with me questioning where the many hundreds of people who have used this forum over the years have disappeared to.
I can understand your fears Fusion but honestly you have nothing to be afraid of so long as you're true to yourself and make choices based on the truth and what is good and just and keep away from laziness, selfishness and hatred. I am confident so long as you keep to these principles you will be fine )
I wish you all the best in your search, God willing everything will be fine sun
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However lately I am being comfortable with the fact that I believe in the supreme being the creator of everything as opposed to before when I believe in the creator through the books or religious thoughts. Now the free mind thinking approach makes me believe that there is a creator.
The issue is that more I read and research, the more I feel drifting away from Books, Religion, Prophets or messengers etc etc and more closer I get into the one who creates and assemble everything around us in this universe. The books , religion, and messengers makes me feel limited into the belief while when am free from them which essentially means free from following a religion, I tend to become more closer to the supreme.
So what is happening ? I feel if I continue I might doubt everything written in books or even fall into the theory that a religion or books have been written by people who had a plan or the wise ones among folks then, however the requirement that they convey the supreme message is diminishing...
Can some one please help me as I do not want to be a person with no faith.
It's normal.. you don't need any help..
The 'closer' or 'more aligned' you are to the 'supreme'.. the more 'ego-less' you shall become..Haven't you realized that in the end you will need to 'let go of everything' anyway?
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Can some one please help me as I do not want to be a person with no faith.
Please turn to your Creator (implore Him to help you in this issue).
I believe that your Creator is the Best Helper for you.
I think that we (humans) are actually always in need of Allah's help,
and in my view, those who think that they don't need God are those who are arrogant.
Salaam.
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Can some one please help me as I do not want to be a person with no faith.
What if the truth requires of you to lose faith? Which would you pick?
What is good about faith anyway? One shouldn't be proud of believing in something for which they have no reason anyway.
It's also a laughable idea that the Lord of the universes wanted to communicate with me and instead of doing that, He chose to hide his message among other thousands of other fraudulent messages, all of which claims to be his message, and he made sure that the message is written in a language most people on this planet doesn't and won't ever speak. Logic! Not even once!
Do not be afraid. If there is an intelligent caring and loving God, he won't judge you for being honest and following what you have evidence for. If it turns out that there is a God but he'd judge you for being honest and following where the evidence leads you, then he is a douchebag unworthy of any form of reverence, let alone worship.
Peace
----------- Student of Allah -
Peace Fusion.
I have read the responses to you.
Nobody is really helping you so far. They will not be able to. They can try,but you need to help yourself the most.
They will be giving you their opinion,logic,understanding...What they think,concluded...And that is all you will get from anyone ,including me.
Now if you are worried /frustrated about your own ability to keep searching /studying/checking,then there is nothing anyone here can do about it.
So if you really want to be sure ,there is only one way.Keep checking/studying/searching everything,messages from the creator,evidence for a creator . You have to do the job yourself. Speak to "this creator" if you think He exists! ...etc
See what happens.
Or if you want to give up ,..Well you have to make your own decision.Whatever happens,you are the one who should control your destiny. Persevere in the challenge.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Many thanks to all of you who tried to comfort me with their words and provide directions. I have the following observations.
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Why do I turn to the creator for any help as if he is going to help me. Question is doe the creator cares? It is like the creator needed me more than I need him (not sure if him/he is the right one to use here). Maybe with this thought in mind, am just helping myself as if the creator actually do care for me while in actual fact I am caring for myself and he does not care at all whether I turn to him or not.
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I work at a place with people coming from different countries/culture/religion and now when I look at them I smile inside and feels that they belong to the creator and in their own way going about their lives and belief, while they are like equal in the eyes of creator. Previously I used to look at people wearing religious glasses, no more, this is positive change that came only as a result of free thought and moving away from traditional islam. Now does creator really cares to see these folks follow religion a b c? What does he want from each of them?
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Everything before that revolves around me makes a sense in the Islamic way like a certain thing happen to a person, I will find reasons from religion point of view. why it has happened to him alone? Or any major incident happens in the world, I will find an excuse again in religious terms and so the millions live. Now does the creator really cares about all of this or he is just going about executing his kingdom, people will come and go and the cycle continues. I mean the earth or universe is like 4billion years and yet humans were only inhabitant for 7-10 thousand years old. Hence events do happen and will continue for reasons known to him and the reasons as well, not for reasons that we reconcile in our minds, If for example a bad event happens to a person, it will happen no matter how much he prays, how much charity he gives etc etc, System of creator does not care and goes as if there is a unique randomness in everything.
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Does the creator really is responsible to create a system like after death there will be hell or heaven or even what the folks mention what hell and heaven actually means. Who is to question him/ He will continue to do what ever he wants for maybe another 10 bill years to come while we as followers of religion xyz will limit his boundaries with talks to judgment day or karma etc etc
In short we actually confine the creator as God and puts restrictions while if he wants can give us only one life and that's it. His kingdom of universe will continue for billions of years to come. Who can question him, no one!!!
Cheers
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Hi Fusion,
I cannot see your problem? You seem to be coming away from sectarianism and onto the substance of faith instead of obsession with a text without substance (see invalid interpretations).
It seems you portray your new condition in a positive light but then totally turn around to ask people to help you not become a person with no faith. What is faith anyway? To believe in some religious practices and its ways of perceiving their divinity or is it to realize yourself in order to grow spiritually?
You should probably apply a lot of contemplation about your place in the World and much the likes without too much affection by possibly incorrect translations of scriptures in foreign ancient tongues.
I feel if I continue I might doubt everything written in books or even fall into the theory that a religion or books have been written by people who had a plan or the wise ones among folks then, however the requirement that they convey the supreme message is diminishing...
It is unfortunate if you think Quran is a book written without authorization by the Rabb just because some half-witted persons in old times took it and wrought havoc upon its interpretation. Quran is clearly conveying a message from the Rabb but just if a person is truly able to read it properly. The astonishing thing is that if a person can read it successfully as intended by the Author it seems like an entirely different book than the one that the sectarians propagate in their interpretation. I will not delve into details as I have made posts before about the difference.
However if you take the best from what Jesus teaches in the Biblical Gospels then you can be well off without Quran. In fact they convey the Rabb's message better than Quran in its mainstream interpretation. If you contemplate about existence and arrive at the conclusion your Spirit is actually supposed to be treated separately from the Body you can even do without a book.
If you study what Jesus said about what Moses said and what he elaborated upon it you can clearly see what the whole purpose is, i.e. to avoid the instinct of the Body from taking precedence. It cannot be more clear when he said "Separate the Spirit from the Flesh", i.e. let the Spirit express itself and not your half-witted Body primate.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Hi Amenuel,
Separate the spirit from the flesh? why and how? If the creator wants us to have flesh then why go against his will and separate? the real test would be to accept it as is and then pass the test. You seem to point the finger at flesh as a bad thing while flesh is an integral part of all species and is the core for reproduction?
I do not lose faith in Quran or Bible or other books for that matter, that is not the point. The point is as a person born in this age. I have no choice but to believe in existence of all these noble men and books while the world around me is so digital that it is virtually not possible for me to find a proof of these entities electronically.
If I were to born ages ago, then believing would be easier I guess.Cheers
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Hi Fusion,
Not only I do but people such as Jesus did too. The Body is a deception for you and you should discover that it is not your real self. The Body has satan and that is your instinct.
Be safe
Amenuel -
If I were to born ages ago, then believing would be easier I guess.
I don't know about that
Qurran 625
Of them there are some who (pretend to) listen to thee; but We have thrown veils on their hearts, So they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they saw every one of the signs, not they will believe in them; in so much that when they come to thee, they (but) dispute with thee; the Unbelievers say "These are nothing but ancient legends."Even back then there were skeptics who believed it was all just tales of old.
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I think it?s normal for people to become stagnant in their quest of understanding and researching their beliefs in books. I guess uncertainty, frustration and fear can make one despair but I don?t understand how books are making you feel limited because from your example you seem to feel you?re more in tune with the belief of God because of your awareness of your surroundings; the world and the universe.
From my understanding of God?s message in the Quran, we?re enlightened to look at the universe and believe in the creator.
Now among His signs are the night and the day, as well as the sun and the moon adore not the sun or the moon, but prostrate yourselves in adoration before God, who has created them - if it is Him whom you worship - 4137
For among His signs is this thou seest the earth lying desolate - and lo! when We send down water upon it, it stirs and swells ! Verily, He who brings it to life can surely give life to the dead for, behold, He has the power to will anything - 4139
n time We shall make them fully understand Our messages in the utmost horizons and within them?selves, so that it will become clear unto them that this is indeed the truth. is it not enough that thy Sustainer is witness unto everything? - 4153
- Why do I turn to the creator for any help as if he is going to help me?
Why shouldn?t you turn to The Creator for help?
.... "Indeed Allah will help those who help Him. Indeed Allah is Exalted in Might, All-Powerful." 2240- It?s easy to be cynical about others. I remember reading a quote I quite liked ?if becoming religious has made you more judgmental, rude, harsh, a backbiter, you need to check if you are worshiping God or your Ego".
Now does creator really cares to see these folks follow religion a b c? What does he want from each of them?
What?s your views on this? I believe there are many paths to God, I may view certain beliefs as misguidance but to them is their path and choice as is mine.
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I guess it all depends on how you look at things and how you define what is fair or not.
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His kingdom of universe will continue for billions of years to come. Who can question him, no one!!!
you are, right now.
The point is as a person born in this age. I have no choice but to believe in existence of all these noble men and books while the world around me is so digital that it is virtually not possible for me to find a proof of these entities electronically.
in any age you have the choice to believe as you wish, as Osman has pointed out many didnt believe... Some things will always be unknown but we can learn from parables and stories of the past.
salam
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Hello Everyone.
Coming from a sunni background into the Quranists way of thinking and then understanding Quran/Islam myself as much as I can put my trust and knowledge and the fact that I learnt a lot from the folks on here.
However lately I am being comfortable with the fact that I believe in the supreme being the creator of everything as opposed to before when I believe in the creator through the books or religious thoughts. Now the free mind thinking approach makes me believe that there is a creator.The issue is that more I read and research, the more I feel drifting away from Books, Religion, Prophets or messengers etc etc and more closer I get into the one who creates and assemble everything around us in this universe. The books , religion, and messengers makes me feel limited into the belief while when am free from them which essentially means free from following a religion, I tend to become more closer to the supreme.
So what is happening ? I feel if I continue I might doubt everything written in books or even fall into the theory that a religion or books have been written by people who had a plan or the wise ones among folks then, however the requirement that they convey the supreme message is diminishing...
Can some one please help me as I do not want to be a person with no faith.
Cheers
quranist?
dumb name... as muslims we follow the ways of prophet Abraham the true in faith, the sane in faith
quranist.....you mean Abrahamic monotheist this is not a sect it's a way of saying your a muslim who follows prophet Abraham who ALLAH ordered us to follow in the quran.
what prophet? -
Many thanks to all of you who tried to comfort me with their words and provide directions. I have the following observations.
- Why do I turn to the creator for any help as if he is going to help me. Question is doe the creator cares? It is like the creator needed me more than I need him (not sure if him/he is the right one to use here). Maybe with this thought in mind, am just helping myself as if the creator actually do care for me while in actual fact I am caring for myself and he does not care at all whether I turn to him or not.
Wherever you are and whereever you orient your glances to, you always face the creator.
If you care for others (being unselfish / unegoistic) then he / it will care for you.
Thus the question should be asked back towards yourselves..Now does creator really cares to see these folks follow religion a b c? What does he want from each of them?
No.. religion / nationality / ethnicity doesn't matter.
It is just a dressing that the 'soul' temporarily assigned into.
And everyone has their role to play, within the ultra-complex orchestra of the universes..If for example a bad event happens to a person, it will happen no matter how much he prays, how much charity he gives etc etc, System of creator does not care and goes as if there is a unique randomness in everything.
Yes..
And there isn't any randomness.. randomness do not exist.
Randomness is the name for a phenomenon which human mind failed to see a pattern, due to it's limitation.- Does the creator really is responsible to create a system like after death there will be hell or heaven or even what the folks mention what hell and heaven actually means. Who is to question him/ He will continue to do what ever he wants for maybe another 10 bill years to come while we as followers of religion xyz will limit his boundaries with talks to judgment day or karma etc etc
I now personally doubted the 'system of heaven and hell + judgement days".
Judgement day is useless.. where the 'creator' asked the 'creation'.. why you do this and that bla bla bla..
In similar manner as human judge behave in his / her own court. (which possibly where the 'inventor' get his inspiration from)
The most correct answer to all such inquiry "Mr. Creator you know regarding why I do this or that better than me.. why you even bothered to ask?"Easterners perspective of "soul reincarnation" relatively makes more sense... if compared to heaven and hell + judgement days.
Example
Pharaoh (of Moses) will never do such terrible deed (as told in the stories) IF he wasn't born as a powerful pharaoh.
He enslave, torture and murder thousands of people because he has the absolute political power to do so, nobody around him dare to give him any 'corrections' to his action.If he was born as a 'female slave' he will never do such deed, not because he doesn't want to, it's just because he can't do so.
The borned female slave pharaoh of Moses will be lucky if he (or she) managed to be not getting raped by his master.Just like any test..
To really test the 'quality of the soul' it need a variety of different 'test cases context'.
If the soul was born into a 'weak and impoverished person', will he able to stand such adversity?
If the soul was born into a 'powerful political figure', will he abuse his power?"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
- Abraham Lincoln
And from such 'experience' the soul will learn something and become 'wiser'.
In short we actually confine the creator as God and puts restrictions while if he wants can give us only one life and that's it. His kingdom of universe will continue for billions of years to come. Who can question him, no one!!!
I would say universe(s), there are possibly trillion+ / unlimited number of universes, each has it's own space and time context..
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"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
- Abraham Lincoln
And from such 'experience' the soul will learn something and become 'wiser'.
Very good quote, Jafar.
Good post in general.
Be safe
Amenuel
