My interpretation of salaat (UPDATED)
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Salaam All,
I noticed the Salat that you translated as commitments were not specified in 4101. Why is that? and what are they?
Take care and have a good day
Hussein
Salam Hussein
That's a good question ? Can it be "orations"? Does anybody else have a comment on the ayat?
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SALAM HLATIF.
BROTHER ZLATAN EXPLAINED IT BUT WE COULDN'T SEE THE LINK BETWEEN 4101 AND 4103. HERE'S MY NEW TRANSLATION OF THE VERSES. I HOPE THIS ONE WILL BE HELPFUL.
004.101 When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten from the commitments (of the fighting), for fear the Unbelievers May persecute you For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.
004.102 AND WHEN thou art with them then establish COMMITMENTS (duties of fighting) for them let one party of them stand up with thee and let them take their arms and when they have SUBMITTED let them take their positions in the rear and let the other party come up which hath not yet COMMITTED (to the duties of fighting) and let them COMMIT (to the duties of the fighting) with thee and let them take their precautions and their arms the unbelievers wish if ye were negligent of your arms and your baggage to assault you in a single rush but there is no sin on you if ye put away your arms because of the INJURIES from RAIN or because ye are ill; but take (every) precaution for yourselves. For the unbelievers Allah hath prepared a humiliating punishment.
004.103 THEN WHEN ye have performed / complied / fulfilled the COMMITMENTS (duties of fighting), REMEMBER Allah, standing and sitting and lying on your sides. Then when ye are secure, execute the COMMITMENTS (duties of fighting) Verily the COMMITMENTS (duties of fighting) are prescribed unto the believers at definite times.
THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN ZLATAN. MAY ALLAH BE PLEASED WITH YOU.
Peace...
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Salam both,
Commitment of fighting does not make sense for the 4101. The reason being that the fight has to last until it ends, therefore the muslims did not have the power to stop it until they defeat or get defeated. Shortening it makes very little sense.
Salaam to both
Hussein
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Salam both,
Commitment of fighting does not make sense for the 4101. The reason being that the fight has to last until it ends, therefore the muslims did not have the power to stop it until they defeat or get defeated. Shortening it makes very little sense.
Salaam to both
Hussein
Salam Hlatif
You are right. How can they shorten from the commitments of the fighting when they are in war. They should be a prisoner of war or something. Maybe it's orations. ( ?
Peace...
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Salaams ,
just a little inputIf you were a pakistani you would know what is Salaa , it is often called Salaa -Mashwarai.
It is simply A Discussion where people give their advice ,and views on a matter or matters and committments are made which should then be kept pure when you carry them out for the benefits.And one mustn't mix things in the commitments to benefit oneself alone. - I think.
In the case Latif is mentioning if you look at the context of the ayah/s The salaa in this case is simply giving/taking orders and the discussion of the manouvers - i suppose / of fighting.
Salaams And God be with you.
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Peace
Salaam All,
I noticed the Salat that you translated as commitments were not specified in 4101. Why is that? and what are they?
Take care and have a good day
Hussein
they are specified(or they could be) in the beggining of the passage.... as i have already said see the context (say from 495) or few verses before ...it seems that 4101-3 was a part of a greater passage whose topic is undisputably fighting.. so the commitement in 4101 could very well (and gramatically valid) reffer to the commitment(s)/duties of fighting.....or any commitement that is previously mentioned...
p.s. whatever , be it fighting or some other commitement, the questionable occurence of assalaat in 4103 clearly reffers to full performance of that practice that is allowed to be shortened in 4101
best wishes, Zlatan
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Salam both,
Commitment of fighting does not make sense for the 4101. The reason being that the fight has to last until it ends, therefore the muslims did not have the power to stop it until they defeat or get defeated. Shortening it makes very little sense.
Salaam to both
Hussein
it does make sense ...the verses doesnt necessarily signifies that the battle has already started...its rather, so it seems to me, about traveling/going to battle...whatever
one is allowed to shorten his fighting or participation in the battle if there is fear of persecution(ofa hometown/basis or similar?)...and this allowance was necessary to specifically mention because at the beggining of the passage few or more verses before 4101 it was stated that not to go to fight is a gross error.....please see the context
best wishes
Zlatan
p.s
i have no script before me now so ill check it again at home...
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Salam all,
Zlatan wrote
p.s. whatever , be it fighting or some other commitement, the questionable occurence of assalaat in 4103 clearly reffers to full performance of that practice that is allowed to be shortened in 4104
We agree, except that the shortening occurred in 4101
I did read the previous AYAT and they seemed to be dealing mainly with the Immigration HIJRA more than QITAL.
004.102 AND WHEN thou art with them then establish COMMITMENTS (duties of fighting) for them let one party of them stand up with thee and let them take their arms and when they have SUBMITTED let them take their positions in the rear and let the other party come up which hath not yet COMMITTED
Understanding as commitment of fighting is troubling to me because the prophet takes a group of his followers and fight and then they do SUJOOD which you guys translated as SUBMITTED. Who did they submit to? Since GOD's name is not mentioned, the logical party they submit to will be the warring party, therefore declaring defeat.
I don't think that there is fighting in those AYAT. I do think that there is marching (For some purpose that may include later fighting) and an order to be very careful of surprise attacks rather than an actual fight.
Salam all
Hussein
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Salam hlatif
004100 He who forsakes his home in the cause of Allah, finds in the earth Many a refuge, wide and spacious Should he die as a refugee from home for Allah and His Messenger, His reward becomes due and sure with Allah. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Yeah ayat seems to be about Hijra but they probably had to fight with disbelievers when they were immigrating. 4101 talks about THIS DANGER.
hlatif wrote
Understanding as commitment of fighting is troubling to me because the prophet takes a group of his followers and fight and then they do SUJOOD which you guys translated as SUBMITTED.
They submitted to the orders of Mohammed (pbuh) and fulfilled their commitments.
Peace...
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Salam hlatif
004100 He who forsakes his home in the cause of
Allah, finds in the earth Many a refuge, wide and spacious Should he die
as a refugee from home for Allah and His Messenger, His reward becomes
due and sure with Allah. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.Yeah ayat seems to be about Hijra but they probably had to fight with
disbelievers when they were immigrating. 4101 talks about THIS DANGER.hlatif wrote
Understanding as commitment of fighting is troubling to me because
the prophet takes a group of his followers and fight and then they do SUJOOD
which you guys translated as SUBMITTED.They submitted to the orders of Mohammed (pbuh) and fulfilled their
commitments.Peace...
of course....the language allows this...hlatif was a bit too strict and
unflexible...though, its not that he might be not onto somehting...the
verses might very well be about some session(meeting/learning/reciting/counceling/or something else)p.s hlatif..remember our discussion on ma-la-ka...i have found in Wahr
also(modern arabic)that this root is used to denote marrying....best wishes
Zlatan
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Peace.
I'm extremely occupied at the moment, so my forum participation is diluted, but I've just come to suggest that maybe Salat = sining (Oration sounds a bit iffy to me, but could sining and oration mean the same thing?) when we sing, we feel some kind of funny feeling, and it can be a spiritual experience wit the Quran. So arabs consider the meanings from ancient arabic (its not their mother tongue) and non-arabs consider it in their own language, so arabs don't have an advantgae over non-arabs.
Natu out (for now...)